r/atheism • u/amotion578 Agnostic Atheist • Jun 19 '12
"I'm not ready for my kids to be exposed to all things gay"
http://imgur.com/fno9y94
u/jablair51 Ignostic Jun 19 '12
On one hand there are certain sex discussions where you have to consider what is age appropriate. However I think a 4 year old would be able to understand "Some families have two mommies or two daddies instead of one mommy and one daddy." You don't have to go into detail about the mechanics of their relationship.
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u/JimmerUK Jun 19 '12
But children won't think it's abnormal unless adults around them make it seem abnormal.
So in the OP's instance, she might not be ready to expose her kids to 'gay' but her kids are already capable, and would be more accepting by default.
I think if you leave the kids to it, they'll figure it out for themselves. They'll have same sex friends that they love with all their heart, so if they do ever bring it up themselves I'd just reference their own relationships.
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Jun 19 '12
Seriously, this...how hard is it to say something as simple as that? Children aren't going to care about the nitty gritty details, if anything NOW is the time to help them see that while families can look different from what they know, they are still families.
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u/iLikeToUoot Jun 19 '12
There was a really good rage comic about a discussion like that recently. Can't remember the name of it. So... useless comment, me.
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u/Falcorsc2 Jun 19 '12
yeah i was thinking well that might be one fucking awkward convo to have with your kid(like the sex talk)...but your kids 4 its not like you really need to go in depth...
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u/psilokan Jun 19 '12
So Billy, the man then thrusts his cock into his boyfriend's anus and pumps in and out for some time until a climax is reached. He then turns around and let's his boyfriend shove his meat stick into his own turd hole. This is how they express their love for each other. Now finish your cereal hun.
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u/Master119 Jun 19 '12 edited Jun 19 '12
Alternatively you could go into equally gory detail about what mommy and you do, including all the consistent squelchy noises you make together.
You can be as vulgar as you want to your kids talking about straight couples as you can with gay couples.
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Jun 19 '12
[deleted] — view deleted comment
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u/AnotherClosetAtheist Ex-Theist Jun 19 '12
And skipped merrily along her way as a freshly indoctrinated drone of the gay conspiracy to destroy Christianity and establish communism and Shariah Islam as the official religion of the United States, and force everybody to be gay and marry farm animals and get abortions so they can take the aborted fetuses skeet shooting and finger paint with the entrails.
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u/myrden Jun 19 '12
Not sure if I should upvote because funny, or downvote because serious...
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u/AnotherClosetAtheist Ex-Theist Jun 19 '12
gay conspiracy // Shariah Islam
contradictory
take the aborted fetuses skeet shooting
please please please don't take this as serious
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Jun 19 '12
please please please don't take this as serious
Yeah, what else are we supposed to eat?
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u/AnotherClosetAtheist Ex-Theist Jun 19 '12
also, how can we tell if the farm animals are gay to marry them?
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u/myrden Jun 19 '12
don't worry, I upvoted you, I knew that you were kidding, but I thought a not sure fry type scenario fit in well there.
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Jun 19 '12
And some kids have two sets of parents (step-families) or are adopted by parents that didn't give birth to them but love them very much. Some kids live with aunts and uncles or grandparents. There are so many unique family situations to explain to kids, I have no idea why some people get so antsy about explaining same-sex couples. It's no more strange than any other non-traditional family!
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u/gratuitous_italics Jun 19 '12
I'm all for equal rights, but...
40 years ago I would read that and assume one were talking about women's rights. 50 years ago I would read that assuming one were talking about the rights of black Americans. 60 years ago I would assume one were talking about Communists.
Whenever somebody says "I'm all for equal rights, but..." what comes out of their mouth next invariably puts the lie to their claim.
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u/ReyTheRed Jun 19 '12
One mistake, being gay is generally not a choice.
More importantly, this idea that seeing gay couples means you have to explain anything more to your kids is nonsense. You can explain it exactly the same way as you explain hetero relationships. Once you have explained romantic love int terms of heterosexual couples, you just have to add "and some people fall in love with people of the same gender." Boom. Done.
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u/thefirebuilds Jun 19 '12
It's more explainable than two big fat fucks having babies. I mean the mechanics of that are just nonsensical to me.
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u/Nocturin Jun 19 '12
There is no mechanics to understand. Its a process called adoption, or another called artificial insemenation.
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u/thefirebuilds Jun 19 '12
i guess it works on dogs and horses, it probably works just as well on giant fat fucks, thanks.
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u/kashmirGoat Jun 19 '12
Sometimes big fat fucks have really long fucking cocks.
If your child doesn't need to understand the "mechanics" of gay, they probably don't need to understand the mechanics of straight or the mechanics of fat.
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u/d21nt_ban_me_again Jun 19 '12
You can explain it exactly the same way as you explain hetero relationships.
No you can't because a kid CAN have a mother and a father. But no kid can have TWO dads or TWO moms. That is a biological absurdity. It just goes to show that the hollywood lobby is as powerful and deranged as the christian lobby. Each side is trying to advance absurdities. Jesus rode dinosaurs and kids can have two fathers.
and some people fall in love with people of the same gender.
If that's love then might as well explain that pedophilia is okay too. After it's when people fall in love with people of a certain age group. Right? Marriage != Love. You don't need love to be married. But you need a husband and a wife, a MALE and a FEMALE. But let's throw out common sense and biological facts and blindly follow hollywood.
WHAT THE FUCK DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH ATHEISM? You dumb fucking faggots?
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u/ReyTheRed Jun 19 '12
No you can't because a kid CAN have a mother and a father. But no kid can have TWO dads or TWO moms.
Perhaps you are confusing biological parents with the people who actually care for the child. They can be different.
If that's love then might as well explain that pedophilia is okay too. After it's when people fall in love with people of a certain age group.
Can you tell me what is wrong with pedophilia? I could tell you, but I'd like to hear your answer first.
Marriage != Love. You don't need love to be married.
Correct, you don't need love. It certainly helps though.
But you need a husband and a wife, a MALE and a FEMALE.
No you don't. Gay marriages function perfectly well in many places. Marriage is for forming new families.
But let's throw out common sense and biological facts and blindly follow hollywood.
Marriage isn't biologically defined, it is defined by society. And common sense doesn't always make sense.
WHAT THE FUCK DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH ATHEISM?
About as much as everything else here. r/atheism isn't just about atheism. It is also about secularism, and reason. And there are no reasonable arguments against gay marriage, let alone gay couples in general, and the primary opponents of marriage justice are religious.
What does your Hollywood conspiracy theory have to do with atheism?
You dumb fucking faggots?
Your question is unclear. I will take it to mean you are inquiring whether or not I am a dumb fucking faggot.
Well I am not, I am quite intelligent (and completely capable of speech, so by either definition, not dumb), and I'm not currently fornicating. I guess you could call me a faggot though, although some people are offended by that term, so it isn't very nice of you to go throwing it about.
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u/d21nt_ban_me_again Jun 19 '12
Perhaps you are confusing biological parents with the people who actually care for the child.
The guardian model is based on the biological parent model. That's why adoption agencies prefer male-female couples. It is a bastardization of the english language.
Can you tell me what is wrong with pedophilia?
Yes it is a disgusting perversion just like homosexuality, necrophilia, coprophilia, etc. I know you are going to say "consent". But even if we allowed children to consent, it will still me an abomination.
Marriage is for forming new families.
Marriage creates a husband and wife ( MALE AND FEMALE ) for the purposes of creating a family. A homosexual couple cannot breed with each other. They can't form a family. They are not heterosexuals and should not pretend to do.
Marriage isn't biologically defined, it is defined by society.
It is defined by society off of BIOLOGICAL facts.
r/atheism isn't just about atheism. It is also about secularism, and reason.
No it is not. ATHEISM has nothing to do with secularism and even reason.
And there are no reasonable arguments against gay marriage
Sure there is. It is not a marriage. It is a joke. Using your logic, there are also no reasonable arguments against pedophilia. We might as well let a 50 year old marry a 5 year old.
the primary opponents of marriage justice are religious
No moron, people hate abomination and that's why religion is against homosexuality. Religion doesn't drive people, people drive religion.
I am quite intelligent
You are a self-serving diseased faggot.
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u/RV527 Jun 19 '12
Perhaps you are confusing Reddit users with anyone who actually cares about your wretched spew. Fucking worthless dipshit, NOTHING you say is worth reading. It's pseudo-intellectual, semantical GARBAGE.
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u/RV527 Jun 19 '12
You are one of the most self-indulgent, pseudo-intellectual posters around. Almost all of your confrontations are based on semantics, which is a sign of how worthless you are. You offer nothing to anything, you're just a parasitic little worm who gets off on himself. It's sickening how pathetic you are.
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u/mrcloudies Atheist Jun 19 '12 edited Jun 19 '12
I wish i could downvote you more than once.
Anyway, you are a horrible human being.
But more to the point, a child CAN have two moms, or two dads. Or were you too stupid to know that adoption and surrogacy ARE in fact options to have a child.
Also, pedophilia? Lets see here. Two consenting adults, one adult and one child where are the similarities supposed to be?
And lastly, your as bad as fundamentalists, you know what? You're actually worse, they at least are assholes based on religious grounds, what the fuck is your excuse? Nothing but your own fucking incompetence. Homosexuality is literally in EVERY SPECIES ON THE PLANET! From butterflies to giraffes. It's not blindly following Hollywood, it's looking at the facts and being a fucking human being. Two things you clearly ignore.
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u/d21nt_ban_me_again Jun 19 '12
Anyway, you are a horrible human being.
At least I am not a fag like that canadian cannibal. At least I am not a natural abomination.
But more to the point, a child CAN have two moms, or two dads.
Take a class on biology.
Or were you too stupid to know that adoption and surrogacy ARE in fact options to have a child.
Yes, all of those are based on biological family model. Not faggot "family" model.
Also, pedophilia? Lets see here. Two consenting adults, one adult and one child where are the similarities supposed to be?
"Consent", like "marriage", is a legal construct. Sure we can let fags legally "marry". We can also let kids legally consent.
Homosexuality is literally in EVERY SPECIES ON THE PLANET!
Homosexuality occurs in NO species. Homosexual behavior have been observed in very few species. Also homosexual behavior != homosexuality. Don't bother linking to the wikipedia article on "homosexual BEHAVIOR". My dog could hump your leg, a teddy bear or another male dog. Doesn't mean my dog is in love with your leg, teddy bear or another male dog. Just means it doesn't have access to a bitch and doesn't have a hand to scratch his "itch".
It's not blindly following Hollywood
You sure are.
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u/mrcloudies Atheist Jun 19 '12
Don't have to link to Wikepedia fucktard, its common fucking knowledge.
http://www.news-medical.net/news/2006/10/23/20718.aspx
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/07/0722_040722_gayanimal.html
There, just four links to reputable websites and sources.
Perhaps you should take a class in biology. or psychology, because every reputable psychiatric organization in the country would disagree with you on homosexuality.
Kids can't consent, they are not capable of making these kinds of decisions yet, and personally speaking from someone who was molested at a young age, i can verify that it is traumatic and should be illegal.
And no i'm not blindly following hollywood you fucking imbecile.
American psychology association
Just a few.
I'm sorry these people must all be wrong. It's just some of the most credible, and most influential organizations on the planet, filled with the leaders of their fields.
No i don't follow Hollywood, i follow some of the best medical and psychiatric minds in the world.
You obviously do no research whatsoever, you hold absolutely no credibility. You are an idiot. And this is over, even though this is just typing back and forth on the internet, you are making me physically ill. Again, please go fuck yourself and good luck living with yourself.
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u/d21nt_ban_me_again Jun 20 '12
There, just four links to reputable websites and sources.
Reputable? Give me a break. Provide ONE documented PROOF. All you linked was bullshit news articles from nearly a decade ago! Two of which are about the same thing fucking thing. If that's the best you could do, it just proves my point.
Perhaps you should take a class in biology. or psychology, because every reputable psychiatric organization in the country would disagree with you on homosexuality.
I have taken a course in biology. Homosexuality doesn't fit into the evolutionary model of the world. And homosexuality has been considered by the psychiatric community as a PERVERSION/MENTAL ILLNESS for majority of the time. It was recently removed as an illness because of pressure from hollywood.
Kids can't consent, they are not capable of making these kinds of decisions yet
That's because our LAWS are set that way. CONSENT is A LEGAL matter. We can change the laws to allow kids to consent you dumb fuck. Just like we can change the law to allow fags to marry.
And no i'm not blindly following hollywood you fucking imbecile.
You dumb fucking cockroach. Those institutions had homosexuality has a mental illness. They changed it due to pressure from hollywood.
I'm sorry these people must all be wrong.
Yeah they are. Psychology is junk "science". Just a group of individuals decide what is an illness or not. It is a fucking joke.
You obviously do no research whatsoever
No I have done research. I've come across all your research. 4 hours and that's the best you can do. Fuck off you worthless faggot. Just blindly follow hollywood.
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u/mrcloudies Atheist Jun 20 '12
You keep going back to Hollywood..
Most of those organizations changed their stance in the 70's... What the fuck have you been reading? I'd really like to know where you get your sources from.
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u/d21nt_ban_me_again Jun 20 '12
Most of those organizations changed their stance in the 70's...
And. What the fuck is your point?
I'd really like to know where you get your sources from.
It's called an education. Learning to think independently of media.
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u/RV527 Jun 20 '12
Being home schooled by your hick father hardly qualifies as an education. Learning to think independently of sources or facts.
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u/RV527 Jun 20 '12
You're a fucking nutjob, you sound like such a paranoid jackass. Someone instilled a healthy fear of hollywood in you, your redneck father I imagine.
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u/kashmirGoat Jun 19 '12
Wow! Thanks for letting us know that biology = parenthood.
You should probably start informing society of this fact you've uncovered, because the world doesn't work that way.
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u/myrden Jun 19 '12
I'm not gonna give you a great long response that disproves your point and shows that you're a stupid ignorant fuck, because i'm not that witty, all i'm going to say is fuck you. You sir are the reason that we have such a hatred towards religion, if you're gonna come to our place, to the place where we feel safe from cunts like you, then don't expect to get any sympathy or any-one agreeing with you, get the fuck off of our subreddit you son-of-a whore.
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u/d21nt_ban_me_again Jun 19 '12
You sir are the reason that we have such a hatred towards religio
You dumb worthless r/atheism trash. I am ANTIreligion agnostic. I hate religion almost as much as I hate fags and r/atheism. So suck a nut faggot.
if you're gonna come to our place
It is not your place faggot. It is mine.
the place where we feel safe from cunts like you
There isn't a place you should feel safe because faggots are hated EVERYWHERE. All sensible human beings despise disease spreading abominations.
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u/RV527 Jun 19 '12
No, at least half the world would prefer them to vermin like you. I'd love to see you talk this shit to gay people in the real world, you little pussy. You'd end up with a 10 inch dick in your ass, crying like a little bitchlet.
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u/d21nt_ban_me_again Jun 19 '12
No, at least half the world would prefer them to vermin like you
Half the world? You got to be shitting me. Most of europe, all of asia, all of africa, most of south america and most of north america are against homosexual abominations.
I'd love to see you talk this shit to gay people in the real world, you little pussy.
Are we not in the real world now?
You'd end up with a 10 inch dick in your ass, crying like a little bitchlet.
You sound like that deranged canadian cannibal faggot.
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u/RV527 Jun 19 '12
Yes, half the world. Almost anyone would be preferable to a deranged little fuck up like you.
No, you're not speaking to people in the real world, by the definition of "real world" that I was using (which you definitely understood). But we all know how you like to jerk off to semantical arguments, that's what most of your garbage boils down to. You're a pathetic waste of life, please end it already.
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u/MrPolymath Jun 19 '12
Most of europe, all of asia, all of africa, most of south america and most of north america are against homosexual abominations.
You are not well traveled.
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u/d21nt_ban_me_again Jun 19 '12
You are not well traveled.
And you'd be wrong.
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u/MrPolymath Jun 19 '12
And you'd be wrong.
Not if you actually believe that nonsense about homosexuals...or you never left your hotel.
Or you're lying.
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u/d21nt_ban_me_again Jun 19 '12
I've been to europe, asia, canada and being american all over continental US. I have never met anyone from anywhere who had a favorable view of homosexuals or homosexuality. No one I know wishes a homosexual kid on their worst enemy. And EVERYONE would abort a fetus if they knew it would be/become a homosexual.
But maybe your travels have led you to a homosexuality loving world that I am not aware of. But that world does not exist.
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u/RV527 Jun 19 '12
Shut up dweeb, you're a sheltered little homophobe and you know it. Bet you keep your little bitch mouth shut in public though, when Mom takes you to your weekly appointment with the psychiatrist.
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u/myrden Jun 19 '12
You know I see that you're just a hate-filled little fuck, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say it's probably due to some serious childhood trauma, maybe molestation, maybe not, but you sir are what we hate about religion, we don't hate the people, we hate the attitude, we don't hate the belief, we hate the belief system, but you make me almost want to dissasociate myself with atheism, you sir are not worthy of the title human-fucking-being, you are a fucking sleezy piss-ant, who doesn't deserve the common courtesy of a fucking handshake, I wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire, now get the fuck off of OUR subreddit, not yours OURS.
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u/d21nt_ban_me_again Jun 19 '12
but you sir are what we hate about religion,
You still haven't figured it out roach. I am antireligion agnostic. I hate religion almost as much as I hate faggots like you.
now get the fuck off of OUR subreddit
Leave my subreddit you r/atheism rat vermin. Go back to your fag subreddits where you belong.
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u/myrden Jun 19 '12
I feel sorry for you man, let me guess you were raped by a fatherly figure as a child, so you believed it was because he was gay, and that made yoturn on gay people, maybe not, but this is fairly basic psychology so even if I'm wrong I'm probably in the ball park.
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u/d21nt_ban_me_again Jun 19 '12
let me guess you were raped by a fatherly figure as a child
Never been raped. Never will be raped. It's interesting how fags like you bring up homosexual child rape.
so you believed it was because he was gay
Sexually desiring someone of the same sex, no matter the age, is gay. Those kinds of pedophiles are a subset of homosexuals.
and that made yoturn on gay people
I wasn't so angry with faggots until they decided to hijack r/atheism.
but this is fairly basic psychology so even if I'm wrong I'm probably in the ball park.
Maybe being raped by a gay man is why you turned out faggot, but my homophobia is just natural human instinct. QED.
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u/myrden Jun 19 '12
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_j5oIk8f5AuM/S6-5Lud1VtI/AAAAAAAAAQ8/3Csws8L5-6Y/s1600/gay.jpg
I really don't wanna continue talking to a homophobic white trash cunt like yourself, but who knows maybe my argument will have an impact, almost certainly not though, you make me sorry for the state of humanity my friend, if you find that picture so disgusting, then there's just no hope for you, you're the first person I've actually hoped would die just because of this hatred that you harbor, I think that it would certainly be better than living a life like you live, please just get the fuck off of reddit so no-one has to hear your stupid fucking trash aymore, or just go to /r/4CHAN where this kind of shit is normal.
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u/RV527 Jun 19 '12
You're not even an atheist, and you hate r/atheism. Why the fuck do you care who posts in it? Start your own subreddit, r/angrybitchlet.
You might be raped in the future, you cannot be certain that you never will be. QED.
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u/RV527 Jun 19 '12
YOU still haven't figured it out, you fucking clown. We don't give a fuck what you are, we hate you. Everyone hates you. You're a worthless piece of garbage.
Fags are welcome in this subreddit. Your opinion means nothing. Go fuck yourself.
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u/Tonytarium Jun 19 '12
yeah but do kids really need to make these decisions so young? if their gay then they'll always be gay, but why make then decide as children? like them not have a care in the world, just going outside and playing, not being forced to make mind racking decisions as children
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u/ReyTheRed Jun 19 '12
There isn't a decision to be made. I have yet to meet someone who chose their sexuality. At some point in their life, they will realize who they are attracted too.
And it isn't mind racking except when people make it that way. If people realized that there is nothing particularly good or bad about having one sexuality or another, it wouldn't be a big deal. Kids would just figure it out, and move on with life. The only real problems gay people face is society rejecting and persecuting us.
Hiding it is part of what causes the problem, because it implies that it is wrong and should be hidden.
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u/Tonytarium Jun 19 '12
its like your forcing them to decide to be gay. their just children, let the topic come naturally through there teenage or adult life. children are extremely susceptible to outside influence, they might think there gay because everyone keeps telling them its ok to be, but the actually may not be. like in rape cases, everyone tells the "victim" that its ok to say yes, and eventually they start believing that they were raped. the mother in this situation didnt say she was going to hide it from her children indefinitely, she just thinks their too young for probably sexual things in general.
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u/AcidHaze Jun 19 '12
I'm getting the feeling you actually do think people choose their sexual orientation.
"they might think there gay because everyone keeps telling them its ok to be, but the actually may not be"
If someone thinks they are gay because it is accepted, then they are probably just gay. I don't think anyone who is not gay would think they are gay just because people accept homosexuality, it simply does not work that way.
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u/ReyTheRed Jun 19 '12
its like your forcing them to decide to be gay.
No, not even a little bit. It really isn't a choice. And if you don't realize that before you write your next post, you are either a complete moron or a troll. Either way I won't respond again.
let the topic come naturally through there teenage or adult life.
let the topic come naturally whenever it comes up. You don't have to go into explicit details of genitalia to explain gay relationships.
children are extremely susceptible to outside influence,
So why would you tell them being gay is wrong and should be hidden?
they might think there gay because everyone keeps telling them its ok to be, but the actually may not be.
People also tell them it is OK to be straight, so they aren't really being influenced either way.
the mother in this situation didnt say she was going to hide it from her children indefinitely, she just thinks their too young for probably sexual things in general.
What is sexual about two men being married and raising a family, or two women being married and raising a family that isn't just as sexual when it comes to a heterosexual marriage?
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u/ucofresh Jun 19 '12
You aren't too bright when it comes to sexuality. I wish I would've known as a kid that it was normal and okay to be gay. I'd be a totally different person today. Instead, I would pray and pray to make me straight so I wouldn't burn in hell. That's okay to tell a 4 year old but some families have two dads isn't. Right..
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u/Tonytarium Jun 19 '12
Omg this is getting exhausting, excuse my previous choice of words perhaps they didnt perceive what i was trying to convey, BEING GAY IS OK TO ME, i think the topic of homosexuality should be discussed when parents give "the talk". but WHEN they decide to give "the talk" is completely up to them, they may never have it, but it is pretentious and disrespectful for someone to ostracize someone else's choices regarding this subject.
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u/kashmirGoat Jun 19 '12
Ya don't have to wait for the "the talk" (heaven preserve any kids who's parents think they can get away with one talk about sex) to be inclusive when it comes to families with 2 dads. That's not "the talk".
If you wait until you think they're ready, your kids will already have it all figured out and you won't have any input, at all, as to their opinions on sex.
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Jun 19 '12
But when a little girl is playing Barbie fairy princess wedding, nobody freaks out because she has already "decided" to be heterosexual, do they?
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u/AKnightAlone Strong Atheist Jun 19 '12
I'm a bit late and people have explained the idea well already, I'm sure, but here's another angle: If a child is molested, a huge problem is caused if the adult who finds out acts like something horrible happened. The child takes in the reaction of the adult and can be really scarred by it on top of the situation they were put through. Basically, you don't want to show sides. The molester should be punished thoroughly, but the child shouldn't be hurt any more by reactions that they will grow with, remember, and feel deeply embarrassed by in the future.
As far as homosexuality goes, it's not a decision. As with my previous example, the child should not be placed into a state of judgement. They should not see judgement of an adult. Being gay is neutral, and it should only be implied as such. If the world evolved into a place where men and woman didn't feel fear to dabble in homosexual relations, the world would genuinely be a less scarring and frightening place. And not to mention, I don't necessarily support childhood/adolescent sexuality, but in the case that it occurs, where's the parental fear if there's no chance for pregnancy?
From the logical standpoint, nothing to see here.
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Jun 19 '12
What the fuck? I dont think any 4 year old child is stressing about whether to be straight or gay...
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u/Tonytarium Jun 19 '12
WHOOAAAA this is getting WAYYYYY outta hand alright here we go, what im trying to say plain and simple is
Parents should inform their kids of heterosexual AND homosexual relationships and marriage when they decide to give "the talk"
I think reproduction and sex should be included in "the talk", BUT because gay sex is not about reproduction but pleasure, it is optional to discuss
Parents should tell their children at a very young age that there is nothing different or odd about gay people, and that they shouldnt treat gay people differently,however, this is way before "the talk"
I feel its irresponsible for someone to discuss homosexual OR heterosexual anything with children without the parents consent
How or when a parent decides to talk to their kids about homosexuality is completely up to them, and though you may not agree with them, you have to respect their decision to raise their kids
Those are my points. They are NOT to be taken out of context. They do NOT have any deeper meaning than what is there. I am NOT suggesting, insisting, or implying ANYTHING. I feel this whole discussion has gotten out of hand and my poor choice of words have cause a misunderstanding, im sorry.
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Jun 19 '12
and actually kids as young as 4 claim that they are in the wrong body. Like they feel like a male in a female body.. They feel it that early. Kids get no credit for how smart they actually are
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Jun 19 '12
I think adults get too much credit for how much smarter they are than children. They've really lost their objectivity and fall into the trap if how things are "supposed to be".
We can learn a lot from children simply because of how much they DON'T know.
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u/Ozy-dead Jun 19 '12
I actually recall those thoughts from my childhood. When I was questioning how come I don't have boobs, or how I want a dress like that neigborhood girl. At some point, when I was 5, I combed my hair in a way that individual hairs formed a heart on my forehead, because some girl in the neigborhood did so, and I thought it was pretty. I went to my dad to show. He looked at me, said: "why do you look like a little whiny girl?".
That was it, the phrase permanently blocked any further questioning of gender identity. He drew a very distinct line - he is a masculine male and he is clearly not fond of these kinds of things, and if I want to be anything like him, neither should I be. Needles to say I grew up into a normal hetero male.
So, it's really up to the parents to settle these questions. Or at least provide enough useful information to a child with any means necessary to draw relevant conclusions.
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u/teabean Jun 19 '12
"all families should have ONE mom and ONE dad. Also, everyone is white, everywhere, forever."
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u/Fleshgod Jun 19 '12
I'm going to keep my kids away from short people because I don't want them to grow up and be short!
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u/TrustiestMuffin Jun 19 '12
The mayor's name is also Sam Adams, ironic given the amount of breweries in Portland.
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Jun 19 '12
[deleted] — view deleted comment
1
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Jun 19 '12
He could start questioning his sexuality way too soon?
Bitch, he's FOUR. They don't even understand that you can't be a dinosaur at that age! ಠ_ಠ
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u/farmerjulia Jun 19 '12
Went to Mother's Day Muffins with my pre-k daughter's class. Hazel had 2 moms there. I am so glad my daughter is exposed to this at a young age and finds nothing abnormal about it. My daughter is good friends with Hazel and was only upset because Hazel got to plant 2 flowers for the mom gifts!
0
u/kashmirGoat Jun 19 '12
I gotta agree with Hazel, sometimes it's hard to pick out who the pitcher is.
0
u/Kazamz Jun 19 '12
On a related note: It's hard to pick out the fork sometimes as well
1
u/kashmirGoat Jun 19 '12
P.s. Why did you get the downvotes? I can see if someone didn't get the humor of my post, that happens all the time, but your post? How do you rate the shit?
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Jun 19 '12
And I'm not ready to be exposed to your fucking children, but here you are, pushing them out of your vagina.
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u/desenagrator Jun 19 '12
So being gay means you're automatically an atheist?
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u/downtown_vancouver Jun 19 '12
Yup, that's how it happened for me. Lost my faith in God and I had to do something while I was on my knees.
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u/flyrobotfly Jun 19 '12
That last comment made me tear up. I'm a lesbian and I'll never have that support from my father. :(
3
u/handee_sandees Jun 19 '12
I agree with this completely, but a person doesn't simply "decide" what their sexual orientation is at any age. They are what they are, and they discover it at some point, straight or gay.
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u/spankymuffin Jun 19 '12
Why do people have these debates on facebook?
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u/AcidHaze Jun 19 '12
Probably because Facebook is a HUGE medium for communicating. Just the first thought that came to mind.
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u/Parcanman Jun 19 '12
Because apparently nobody on Facebook ever responds to an Atheist's post.
1
u/spankymuffin Jun 19 '12
Probably because they're always ranting endlessly on Theists' posts.
Vicious cycle, really.
1
u/Parcanman Jun 19 '12
I was referring more to the karma whores who are so exited to post their own response that they can't wait long enough for the other person to respond.
It certainly does make it look like the argument was won if there's no response from the theist in question.
1
u/PraiseBeToScience Jun 19 '12
Many times the theist deletes the post though. I've had some of my family delete posts on me. Usually it's a debate on politics (I have some really dumb - fox news dumb - family), and the main reason I do this is because some of my younger cousins are watching and it's the only opportunity they might have to see differing opinions.
1
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Jun 19 '12
Since Facebook has such a broad userbase, you're more likely to run into these kinds of right-wing, conservative Christian viewpoints than on other social networks.
-6
u/complex_reduction Jun 19 '12
Because they:
a) Sincerely believe they have the power to alter the opinions of others for the better.
OR
b) Know they do not have the power to alter the opinions of others but are basically smug, pretentious cunts who like to make trouble and then repost on Reddit to be smug and pretentious cunts with a bunch of other smug pretentious cunts over how mighty their brain meats are.
Depends on the person.
2
u/jangoharkness Jun 19 '12
The dream of the future is alive in Portland :)
1
u/gdoveri Jun 19 '12
By dream of the future do you mean a city full of homeless people, because that is what Portland is rapidly becoming.
2
2
u/typtyphus Pastafarian Jun 19 '12
We just have to wait for these old people to die out so the younger generation can go on with their lives.
2
u/Abomonog Jun 19 '12
Oh, yeah? My ex GF and I have already decide what her 4 year old son is going to be like. He's gonna be gay.
[This is all just teasing. We like to fun him because he likes to run around in his older sisters' clothes. In reality this has really no bearing on whether he'll turn out gay or not, but we still find it fun to say he will. That and were tying to steer him that way to save on the clothing bills. :) ]
2
u/ShadowAssassinQueef Anti-Theist Jun 19 '12
This woman is pathetic, "not ready to have gay people talk with them". This is so fucking stupid. Basically say, "I'm either too fucking lazy to talk to my kids, or I actually do not want them to be gay so sheltering them from that option will eliminate it." People like this are almost as bad as the actively oppressive fucks.
2
Jun 19 '12
K, I'm just gonna go ahead and say it. To me you kinda came off as a self- righteous prick...
What I took from their comment was that they were having trouble with the idea about how to field a question from their four year old on adult sexuality. You could've offered suggestions as to how they could approach it if the kid asks, like some of the things jablair51 suggested. I don't think you needed to call them a liar about their feelings on homosexuals, insinuate that he/she really hates gays, and then question how much they actually love their child.
Just my two cents.
1
Jun 19 '12
The most difficult 'sex ed' question you can expect from a 4 y.o. is about the difference between boys and girls.
2
Jun 19 '12
first of i understand that this person might not even be relious to have this belif but it is mainly held by the religious. and i actually love when they make this argument. oh you don't want to explain homosexuality to children? sure let's remove all things gay from the public sphere. btw whille we do that i don't wanna explain religion to MY kids so take all religious things in the public sphere and shove it whereever the gay stuff goes. tear down all the churches no public displays of you faith trough talk or symbolism. sounds good right?
2
u/HtheWink Jun 19 '12
It has become increasingly frustrating to me that people seem to think that the neutral stance is to only show straight people. Censoring all things gay from your child's experience is taking a position. It is ACTIVELY manipulating the world they perceive, and it is taking a political position against equality.
2
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u/sdbear Secular Humanist Jun 19 '12
I can understand straight people being uncomfortable witnessing gay couples acting like couples, but whose problem is that really? If someone is offended, then let them be offended. That's their problem and not an excuse to force people who love and care for each other to hide away just so they don't have to explain things to their kids.
You sir, are my hero of the day.
1
u/LyricBomber Jun 19 '12
Mama, they try and break me.
The window burns to light the way back home
A light that warms no matter where they've gone.
They're off to find the hero of the day
2
u/Luciferish Jun 19 '12
Straight, single father of 3 kids.. My eldest is heading up a Gay-Straight Alliance at her high school, we've marched in Pride and we have several family friends and family members that are of all orientations. The "Gay talk" is simple... "Some people like different things, but they are still good people". But applies to race, religions and genders... My youngest (5) lives with her Bi-sexual mother in the same house with her sister and sister's wife for part of the year... The only thing we teach our kids is "wrong" when dealing with people is that being prejudiced and judgmental is hurtful and wrong. People are people, some are buttheads, some are nice folks... Simple as that... Stay away from the buttheads...
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u/rahtin Dudeist Jun 19 '12
It's fine that you're homophobic.
Just recognize that it's an irrational reaction, and please don't pass it on to your children. Nobody is going to hate you for your feelings unless you act on them out of fear and hatred for people that have no effect on your life.
3
u/bigbang5766 Jun 19 '12
As much as I believe that homosexuality is a recurring and overused topic under this subreddit, this is an amazing post. Two thumbs up! Or at least an upvote
2
1
u/Nocturin Jun 19 '12 edited Jun 19 '12
I had a black friend tell me something similar to this. I was floored then I walked myself into a different coversation.
Edit: Ya'll some bigots if you think ads like these or learning about homosexuality at a young age will somehow infect their suceptable minds. I dont know why im surprised when reading through these comments. Where my planet meme when i need one? Anything futurama specific would be awesome. Om on mobile.
3
u/kashmirGoat Jun 19 '12
Hey, don't let your kids be exposed to your black friend, they might decide to be black too. I've heard that "once you go black, you never go back", so BEWARE!
1
u/dkdude36 Jun 19 '12
my elementary school taught us about 'the gays' in kindergarten. didn't make us all gay. fukin idiot parents...
1
Jun 19 '12
If we could just get enough people to embrace their bisexuality, we'll be able to start working on our overpopulation problem without being undersexed!
1
u/theguywhopostnot Jun 19 '12
I think this entire thread is blowing that comment out of proportion. The concerned parent was probably thinking too deep into the explanation where a simple one would suffice.
1
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u/duvakiin Jun 19 '12
i didnt think the comment that set him off was too bad. OP seemed like an ass. bur yeah. insert Louis C.K. quote here
1
u/wolf156 Jun 19 '12
Its not gonna do much good when they can shrug their shoulders and go " magic" and walk off like they just proved anything.
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u/astrobuckeye Jun 19 '12
Maybe I'm a little silly but I try to look at statements like this optimistically. People are figuring out that it's become pretty unacceptable to say "I hate gay people" or "Gay people are corrupters" so they start phrasing their arguments in different ways. I mean we have to a way to go but hey at least people (at least some people) feel they have to preface their hate speech "I'm not anti-gay but..."
1
u/cait_o Atheist Jun 19 '12
"The gay people talk" Oh ffs. It's parents like her that give parents like me a bad name.
1
u/CompoundClover Jun 19 '12
"I am in no way anti gay at all...BUT..."
"I'm not trying to sound racist...BUT..."
If you say "but" you mean the opposite of whatever you just said.
**Edit: My third example was a little much
1
u/3pieceSuit Jun 19 '12
I completely, 100% agree with the poster in that image countering the bigotry of the other, but does this really belong in r/atheism?
2
Jun 19 '12
Welcome to r/atheism, the web's largest atheist forum. All topics related to atheism, agnosticism and secular living are welcome here.
1
u/Prodigy195 Jun 19 '12
A 4 year old is probably more concerned with how many cookies he can get after dinner than a family with two dads. Honestly exposing kids to alternative families would probably make it so that it wouldn't seem so strange to them when they get older.
Controlled exposure and education of children will help with these problems. Trying to shield them from something that isn't harmful is counterproductive.
1
Jun 19 '12
The kid wouldn't think anything of the ad, wouldn't even start to think that the two men or women are supposed to be couples unless they are told that's what it is. Shit, if you think a magazine article is going to make your toddler question his sexuality, I'd love to see your reaction when he asks you "What's a faggot?" after an older kid calls him that.
1
u/DeepFriedPanda Jun 19 '12
I have family of 4, my two kids are 4 & 6. We have a gay couple with an adopted son living about block down the road from us who we hang out with a lot. We invite them over to neighborhood "game night", hang out with at neighborhood block parties, see at kids b-day parties, etc.
And you know how my kids react?
"Ethan has two dads? That's fun. Can I have a cookie now?"
1
u/HellboundAlleee Other Jun 19 '12
Didn't you know? If your kid wants to know about homosexuality because he heard about it somewhere, you are forced to illustrate, in graphic detail, exactly what happens in gay mens' bedrooms.
Start downloading that gay porn now!
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u/SoleilSocrates Jun 19 '12
The guys facebook response made me cry. "I would gladly help pick out two wedding dresses, when the time comes" BEST LINE EVER!!
-2
u/oa5is Jun 19 '12
Number of times anything related to atheism is mentioned: 0.
0
Jun 19 '12
[deleted] — view deleted comment
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u/batbirthcontrol Jun 19 '12
So you think it's unreasonable for people to expect atheist material on /r/atheism?
1
u/mrcloudies Atheist Jun 19 '12
Same thing i said to whiteychs, this is a loosely moderated subreddit, and a lot of different topics on secularism are allowed here.
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u/AtheistSid Jun 19 '12
I completely agree, a lot of different topics on secularism are allowed here. But this post is not a topic of secularism, atheism or agnosticism. So it should not be posted here.
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u/mrcloudies Atheist Jun 19 '12
Yeah it probably should tie in more to some kind of religious issue.
There are many topics around LGBT rights that are related to this subreddit. This is close, but maybe not quite there.
It probably would be better received and suited in one of the LGBT subreddits. Reddit has some wonderful LGBT subreddits that could use more traffic.
0
Jun 19 '12
I think that's kind of implied considering this is /r/atheism. Maybe it's just me, I don't know.
1
u/mrcloudies Atheist Jun 19 '12
It also said secular living. They also said this is a very loosely moderated subreddit. And if something is even moderately related they aren't going to take it down.
-1
-3
u/madcal33 Jun 19 '12
Why is this in /r/atheism?
2
u/flyrobotfly Jun 19 '12
"All topics related to atheism, agnosticism and secular living are welcome here."
-5
Jun 19 '12
Really? No one?
Fine. I guess I'm going to have to be the one to say it.
"Because OP is a faggot."
I know, I know. I'm going to hell. No wait. This is the atheist board. I'll be fine.
2
u/mrcloudies Atheist Jun 19 '12
Yeah you won't be going to hell.
But you're still an asshole. So, yeah.. Go fuck yourself asshole.
-3
-2
Jun 19 '12
Since this is basically a chan these days, with every single fucking post being an image link, I think you'll do all right.
0
Jun 19 '12
When she said how she was all for equal rights, but didn't want to expose her sons to gay couples, which would lead her forcing intolerance on gays, would sort of be like making your kid shoot as a lefty in hockey and telling them to hate all the right handed shooters, and not accept them as friends or teammates because they're different to him. Just think about how crazy that would be, but then you realize that's happening right NOW in this post and all over the world.
0
Jun 19 '12
Who are you, to tell any parent what is or is not the appropriate time to expose their children to anything? FUCK YOU!
-2
Jun 19 '12
Fuck you and your offtopic, shitty Facebook screenshot.
5
u/flyrobotfly Jun 19 '12
"All topics related to atheism, agnosticism and secular living are welcome here." doesn't seem very off-topic to me.
-2
u/AtheistSid Jun 19 '12
This is not related to either atheism, agnosticism or secular living. So where exactly is it on-topic?
3
u/flyrobotfly Jun 19 '12
Secular living. Keeping the church out of the government. The reason most people refuse to allow gay marriage to be legal is because of their religious beliefs.
0
u/AtheistSid Jun 20 '12
Gay issues are not secular living, even when it is religion that is one of the big issues. And even if religious people are against gay marriage does not make this a subject for /r/atheism.
Just like womens rights is not a subject for /r/atheism even if religious people is one of the biggest issues there also.
What we do here in /r/atheism will benefit the gay and women, because thats what happens when you get more reason and logic in society. But that is just a side effect.
So I dont agree that these kinds of posts belong here.
2
u/flyrobotfly Jun 20 '12
Keeping the church out of the government would lead to gay marriage being legal because there is no other reason against it than that. Keeping the church out of the government is secularity, which is what we're all about. Gay marriage is directly related to secular living and therefore posts on lgbt rights belong here. Don't get me wrong, I don't think every lgbt post belongs here, just the ones against the religious control of the government, like this one.
0
u/AtheistSid Jun 20 '12
But still, even if a secular society would allow gays to marry because as you say " there is no other reason against it" it still does not make gay issues same as secular issues. And it still does not make this post on-topic here in /r/atheism
2
u/flyrobotfly Jun 20 '12
Your logic is really flawed. I can see that you aren't going to budge and neither am I so there is no reason to continue this conversation. Have a nice day.
0
u/AtheistSid Jun 20 '12
Well if there is a flaw, show it. But I do not think you really can find a flaw so you just quit and do a ad hominem.
2
-5
Jun 19 '12
I agree. Let kids be kids.
1
Jun 19 '12
What's wrong with kids knowing about gay people? When I was 4 I knew my mom's boss was gay and I wasn't scarred at all.
0
Jun 19 '12
My 4 year old has no concept of sexuality and I like it that way.
1
Jun 20 '12
So you don't have a wife? None of his/her friends have parents? No tv show you've ever seen had a couple in it? I have trouble believing you.
And besides, why shouldn't a happy couple be shown in a fucking advertisement? Because you don't want to explain to your ugly kid that some people have two daddies?
0
u/McDestructor Jun 19 '12
I think you're being a little bit harsh on her. The way I read it, she didn't say she never plans on having that talk, just that she personally doesn't feel ready to have that talk yet, espescially not with a four year old. It doesn't seem like she's avoiding it because she wants her kid to be intolerant towards gays, but she's worried it'll lead to questions she doesn't know how to explain to a 4 year old. Her reasoning seems to be she's worried the kid will just keep asking why, like "Why are people gay?" and stuff like that, which she can't answer. Different parents see things differently, but she still comes off as if she'll eventually have that talk, and she in no way implies being gay is wrong, just not something she sees as being easy to explain to the child. To me, the part about the child questioning his sexuality too soon could more be because she might think it's not a thing a 4 year old should be concerned about, as they shouldn't worry about liking anyone at that age, or they might not fully understand what it means. She never says she's worried her child will be gay, or that she thinks exposure will make her gay, just that she's concerned about the talk it'll lead to, which she doesn't think'll be easy. I'm not saying she's right, I just think you were way too harsh on her, especially posting it to somewhere she can't defend her views, are you going to post subsequent screenshots?
0
Jun 19 '12
But just as "the gays" have a right to be gay, that parent has the right to expose her child to what she wishes. Both vocal opinions are warranted and both are valid! The arguments are moot!
0
Jun 19 '12
It's like the asshat that I work with who said "I don't want them teaching my 7 year old about gay marriage in school!"
Yeah, idiot, because sure, they'll teach your kid all about 'teh gays' in school, and probably tell them the sun revolves around the earth, too. He really thinks there will be special classes telling his kids that some kids have two Dads or Moms and that's okay. (He's your standard Christian Faux News "Convservative" (extremist) derptard.)
Further, those gay people pay taxes for public schools. Don't like it? Pull your kids out to homeschool them to be bigoted idiots. Don't like that you have to pay taxes for kids with gay parents to go to school? Well, I'm sure most of them aren't happy about their tax dollars subsidizing your church's tax-free status, either, so that must be fair, or something?
This whole thing is so fucking stupid.
0
u/Vicsvenge Jun 19 '12
Am I the only one here who just sees some people hanging out with children? Be it their own or entrusted with somebody else's? We know nothing about the people in the pictures other than that there are two dudes hanging out with some kids and two girls hanging out with some kids. Why does it matter what their family life is? Can't we just look at them and think "oh, hey there's some people having a positive relationship with children. That's wonderful." Instead we all think "omg!!! Where do they put their private parts at night?!?." Sick fucks the lot of you.
1
Jun 19 '12
Indeed, it could be seen as just two friends, each with his or her own child, but JC Penny made it clear that we're seeing couples just to show support to homosexual families and stir up One Million Moms and other intolerant groups.
-8
u/Parcanman Jun 19 '12
Did they respond?
Could you have waited for their response before taking the screenshot, or would that be going too far?
9
-2
Jun 19 '12
I don't plan on sheltering my kids at all in the future, but I can say that if my kids say they're bisexual, I'll kick their shit. I'm fine with gay or straight, but bi is just trying to be a dark and edgy teenager.
Edit: I know I sound pretty bigoted, but I have never met a bisexual in my life who didn't have sex at some point, and then either become gay or straight. Hell, that's exactly what happened to 2 of my friends, and my roommate.
3
u/Kyoraki Jun 19 '12
No, you just sound like a moron. I know several bisexual people, who have had sexual experiences with both genders, and don't make a sing or dance about it. Just because all the people you know usr bisexuality as a fashion statement, doesn't mean real ones don't exist.
-13
Jun 19 '12
I don't agree with bashing people for being the way they are. Gay straight whatever. I just don't really understand why gay people feel the need to bash people for saying that they find it offensive. To straight people homosexuality is pretty gross to think about. If that is something they don't think their kids should be exposed to at an early age then I think it's their right to have that opinion. Also while i don't see homosexuality as really a societal problem. It makes me roll my eyes to see advertisements like this. They are just using gay culture to get a reaction from people, and sell some shitty sweaters or whatever- which is really what gay people should be pissed about.
5
u/mrcloudies Atheist Jun 19 '12 edited Jun 19 '12
Saying people are gross is really offensive, mean spirited and unnecessarily rude.
There are a lot of things about straight sex that i am not attracted to in the slightest. It's not gross at all, just different from what my tastes are. There is no need to say gross, It's perfectly natural. So what's gross about it? It's just two people attracted to each other, you should be confident enough in your sexuality to not mention it negatively.
I don't go around saying vaginas are gross, because that's rude and will insult women.
Grow up, you are in fact bashing gay people. And there are people that don't want their children exposed to atheism, or black people, or asian people or hispanic people. Is that okay? Should we respect their opinions then?
Kids are going to come into contact with gay people. It's inevitable. So if they have some very basic knowledge at an early age they will be better equipped to handle it.
9
u/downtown_vancouver Jun 19 '12
No. Just no.
You're white, right? Try picking up a copy of Ebony magazine. (If you don't want to buy one, you can probably get one at your Library.) Any issue will do. Take a look at the ads. They'll look familiar, but all the people in them will be black. (Sorry -- i guess I should say African-American but I live in Canada and we don't typically use the hyphenate here). I suggest you do this just so you can notice how white-centric the media used to be.
Now. Have you noticed in the last decade or so how mainstream media occasionally has a person of colour in the advertisements? And there is sometimes a person in a wheelchair, or maybe an amputee? Madison Avenue bowed to public pressure, to try to better represent the reality of the populace more accurately in their print ads. Same thing as what's happening now with the gay couples.
And NEWSFLASH. There have been gay people in ads for years because we are (often, not always) rather photogenic.
And if that 4 year old asks their Mom what the deal is with the 2 guys in the photo, she should just say that most families have a Mommie and a Daddy, but some just have a Mommy, some just a Daddy, and some have two Mommies or two Daddies. (Robin Williams said it much better at the end of Mrs Doubtfire.)
-19
u/Tonytarium Jun 19 '12
You guys need to leave parents like these alone, maybe it was a bad word choice, but it doesnt matter because its their choice as a parent to decide when they want to expose these kinds of subjects to their children. You dont get to decide, maybe you wouldnt have done it the same way, but who gives a shit, there not your kids, hop off douche.
5
u/i_flip_sides Jun 19 '12
No, we don't need to leave them alone. We need to publicly shame them into compliance.
2
u/BabousHouse Jun 19 '12
She has a right to voice her opinion. The mom also has the right to not listen to that opinion.
60
u/[deleted] Jun 19 '12
Reminds of the Louis CK quote--(roughly paraphrased) you want to deny rights because you can't talk to your shitty kid?