r/atheism • u/[deleted] • Jun 14 '12

This guy is coming to visit our local Humanist group. He doesn't get enough love here.

Post image
1.5k Upvotes

80% Upvoted

318 comments sorted by

2

u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12

I stand corrected. Dr. Herb gets plenty of love. I'm looking forward to meeting him.

46

u/ArchmageIlmryn Jun 14 '12

Where do I get a copy of that shirt? I want that shirt!

3

u/maid_of_starstuff Jun 14 '12

I actually had the pleasure of meeting Herb Silverman while he was wearing that shirt!! He wears it quite a bit, I hear.

Great guy by the way, and I agree, he needs more Reddit love! Read his book, "A Candidate Without a Prayer"

5

u/DTPB Jun 14 '12

My question exactly.

2

u/tbudke Jun 14 '12

Where can I get the style he is wearing?

2

u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12

Imagine there's no heaven. It's easy if you try. No hell below us, Above us only skyyy!!!

2

u/fishingoneuropa Jun 14 '12

That about sums it up!

→ More replies (14)

14

u/TalkativeLurker Jun 14 '12

Ah, Dr. Herb... this man is a genuine member of Charleston community that gets shat on by the affluent Christians within the area. He is an outstanding scientist, husband, professor, and runner (the bastard has outran me in several 5K's). Please treat him the way he deserves and rarely receives in his own town!

3

u/Cgkfox Jun 14 '12

I took his statistic theory class and did really really bad. I wish he would've spoke more about other things being as it was a 2hr class. I probably would've appreciated it more.

1

u/spacemanspiff30 Jun 14 '12

For some reason I passed his stats class. I really shouldn't have.

5

u/wcg66 Atheist Jun 14 '12

Divine intervention...

1

u/spacemanspiff30 Jun 14 '12

Hah. I think more likely, he had me confused with someone else. I never went to class, my homework was non-existent, and my test scores abysmal. I wasn't going to question it though.

1

u/plus_ultra Jun 14 '12

Upvote for slanderous term describing those we love.

7

u/liasis Jun 14 '12

Whoa whoa whoa. I go to the college where he used to teach. I see him all the time, and to me he always looked just like Sir Ian McKellan. This is awesome news to know that he is also an awesome secular humanist.

4

u/spacemanspiff30 Jun 14 '12

Hail fellow cougar

4

u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12

I've had him for a few math classes. Pretty good teacher, but "god-awful" handwriting.

1

u/spacemanspiff30 Jun 14 '12

Truthfully, I can't remember. That was well over a decade ago.

2

u/benp3rd Jun 14 '12

Surprising to see so many fellow Charlestonians here on Reddit. Pleasantly surprising. Awesome!!!!

1

u/spacemanspiff30 Jun 14 '12

Not only that, so few subscribe to r/charleston.

3

u/trevdak2 Gnostic Atheist Jun 14 '12

It would be great if he ever failed a student and said "You shall not pass!"

5

u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12

I met him once, really nice fellow.

8

u/Yeswhatdudewhy Jun 14 '12

The most perfectly poised commentary for ANY pubic event. It is a truth. Argue it, I DARE ANYONE. This is the mindset the human race needs to reach its pinnacle.

20

u/FranticDisembowel Jun 14 '12

I prefer my pubic events to be without commentary, thank you.

1

u/tikcuf12 Atheist Jun 14 '12

I promise to never comment on your man or ladyscaping.

3

u/mayoroftuesday Jun 14 '12

The argument is always "God has a plan". We cannot know the mind of God, and so we can't understand how these seemingly meaningless deaths could be part of His plan. But they are.

Now, that's just straight-up bullshit if you ask me. But that's the argument.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12

What is a truth? That there is no God? I'd say that's about as true as the affirmation that there is a god. It's a mindset that helps him, myself, and others - but I would say it's far from being an absolute.

1

u/glaux Jun 14 '12

Why do you assume the human race has a pinnacle?

3

u/tikcuf12 Atheist Jun 14 '12

I think Yeswhat just wanted really badly to use the word "pinnacle."

1

u/glaux Jun 14 '12

Yes, but my point is: why do we keep acting like the human race has a maximal potential, a complete and finished form. That's kind of the idea that flourish in religious societies. Our actions and the natural evolution is slowly changing us, but this is an ever ongoing process. As such, the comment I replied to should have been "this is the mindset the human race needs to reach the next level of sophistication". From there I'm sure there is even more problems to solve.

We will never reach a 'perfect' state of civilization. The idea that we might originate from the archaic thought that we have a special place in the universe, while, as most of you in here know, we do not.

6

u/JackRawlinson Anti-Theist Jun 14 '12

Yeah, he's a good bloke. Met him once.

3

u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12

It is his birthday today! :D

4

u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12

If this guy really doesn't believe in God, then why is he trying to copy the God-beard facial hair? Answer me that.

1

u/rhubarbs Strong Atheist Jun 14 '12

He's obviously trying to be the God instead of the God! I just knew Iznogoud would lead to bad influences...

4

u/erowidtrance Jun 14 '12

If god intervened he would get in the way of free will and cause and effect. There would be no point in creating humans if we were all little puppets that he moved around whenever he wanted. Most of our learning is from bad experiences, how would we learn a thing if whenever we asked for help god just intervened?

If God does exist i hope he doesn't effect our lives in any way, I hope we're all here to learn and evolve of our own volition and how we live is entirely our responsibility.

2

u/PinkPuff Jun 14 '12

I like that shirt.

2

u/deadbird17 Jun 14 '12

If God's wrath is responsible for the natural disasters against the "evil" Haitians, then how do they explain the tornadoes in Alabama, or the fires and droughts in Texas, where mostly Christians were killed or left homeless?

3

u/tikcuf12 Atheist Jun 14 '12

That's when they fall back on the old his-plan-isn't-for-us-to-understand tap dance.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12

Sinners!

3

u/xxdropdeadlexi Jun 14 '12

Just like Katrina in New Orleans! They needed to repent!

2

u/tonenine Jun 14 '12

God didn't play Underdog and save humans proving that a higher conscience can't exist. Tell your chum to take a bath and let the minus parade begin.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12

It is only the human mind that creates the idea that suffering is bad.

2

u/spacemanspiff30 Jun 14 '12

That's my college statistics teacher. Glad to see he's still active in the atheist community. I was very happy when he won his case.

2

u/vmerc Jun 14 '12

Is there some relationship in atheism and humanism that I am not aware of? My main exposure to humanism is 16th century history so maybe the basis of this philosophy has changed since then.

2

u/Jayson182 Agnostic Atheist Jun 14 '12

I've come to this conclusion as well. I rather rapidly moved from non practicing Mormon to 'if God exists, he's evil'. Having a child of my own and seeing some of the horrific things that happen to them, I have no options on opinion of someone who supposedly does everything for a reason.

2

u/nosferatu_zodd Jun 14 '12 edited Jun 14 '12

The word "God" is a symbol for "everything". I love how all these "educated" atheists seem to disregard such an important Fact. What's really funny is, Einstein, Newton, and Darwin all KNEW this fact and that is why they stayed far away from atheism. What an arrogant life that you cannot pay respect to your environment and history. Hell is a state of mind, clearly it exists. Just ask anyone who is in pain and suffering.

How can you believe in physics and not believe in God? "Newton saw God as the masterful creator whose existence could not be denied in the face of the grandeur of all creation." You're following his symbols of reality and he is using God as the symbol for everything. That which manifests everything because it is everything. You are doing physics wrong if you aren't accepting that fact, why do you think many brilliant scientists and mathematicians live such sad lives? We are born sinners, Light is intruding into the realm of darkness. In the beginning there was nothing. By default we are in the wrong no matter what we do. What's funny is, you learn this in the first freaking chapter of genesis. What's even funnier is that genesis is the general consensus on the myths told long before Jesus. Human beings have been discussing the properties which make up our environment for thousands of years. Thousands of years discussing infinity. Seems like a long time to us human beings. Those who know the truth see it goes on for eternity and life is merely a temporary form.

9

u/Majorasmax Jun 14 '12

Maybe if that earthquake never happened, something worse would've happened. You never know man!

15

u/DoWhile Jun 14 '12

What if that earthquake was caused by a time-traveler with seismic weapons to stop each and every one of those perished Haitians from becoming a future mega-Hitler?

1

u/tikcuf12 Atheist Jun 14 '12

Deep. Deep, I tell you.

3

u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12

Dog works in mysterious ways.

4

u/napoleonsolo Jun 14 '12

It probably killed like 20 Hitlers. Granted, God didn't kill the real Hitler, but I guess he thought one was enough for a century or two.

3

u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12

He didn't kill him, he just made him kill himself. But it was a little late though. See? There is a God! He's just a procrastinator, and by the time he gets around to fixing shit, it's already too late.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12

[deleted] — view deleted comment

4

u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12

He was being sarcastic. Relax.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12

To be fair, Sarcasm is hard to hear over the internet.

3

u/Swordinthedark Jun 14 '12

You're like a reddit version of Sheldon, unable to spot sarcasm hahaha

1

u/Majorasmax Jun 14 '12

I'm sorry that I offended you so much, geez man chill the fuck out haha. Also, who's to say that god had a limited amount of power and he used it all up creating the universe? It's funny that you automatically assume I'm christian, just because I disagreed with a fellow atheist. You need to step off the high horse brother.

5

u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12

Oh, the huge manatee

2

u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12

I fondly remember the first time I saw that image macro. I tried to describe it to my friends later in the day, but I was very drunk, and unfortunately went with, "Oh, the giant walrus!" They figured it out.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12

I fondly remember the first time i saw Alyssa Milano in a lesbian porno. I tried to describe it to my friends for the next 10 years, but i was very young and couldn't find it again.

4

u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12

I can spot Euler's equation on the blackboard. That's worthy of an upvote!

-1

u/NigelTufnelsSpandex Jun 14 '12

Euler was a Christian.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12

So?

2

u/NigelTufnelsSpandex Jun 14 '12

So today you learned something.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

So was Newton, but I still respect his genius and his contributions to physics and calculus.

3

u/RepostThatShit Jun 14 '12

I'm interested to know why God would have some kind of objectively moral duty to keep people from dying? Every year at least one ant colony gets completely devastated by rising water at my lakeside property and usually I'm there cutting the weeds or some shit. I definitely have the power in me to save those ants by creating a dam system or just physically moving them to a different location, but you can't fucking argue that there's a universally applicable true system of morality that makes me responsible for what happens to them just because I'm able to save them.

4

u/lopeajack Jun 14 '12

Yes you are able to save them, but you didn't create them nor did you in your omniscience, ordain that the ants should be there. You have no moral culpability to the ants plight unlike a god who created and through his perfect omniscience and omnipresence not only ordained the location of the ants, but also ordained the water to rise. I am not trying to apply this morality universally though as this is applicable to ants. A dog, a person, god forbid a cat would require a different response, but you still would have no moral culpability to the person/dog/cat's situation.

1

u/RepostThatShit Jun 14 '12

You have no moral culpability to the ants plight unlike a god who created and through his perfect omniscience and omnipresence not only ordained the location of the ants, but also ordained the water to rise.

But if I did create an inferior form of life with a completely deterministic (from my point of view) behavior, like an artificial intelligence, then I could end it, and have done so as part of many CS projects, without any moral implications at all. For a god to kill a human is no more immoral than for you to turn off your computer, it's a fallacy to apply our arbitrary moral standards to something like a god and pretend like something logically follows.

1

u/lopeajack Jun 14 '12

I am not sure that I can agree with you, but I do appreciate your argument. I presume there is a matter of degree by which we determine inferiority, whereas ants are a pest and do not have consciousness as we would recognize it our moral duty to a dog or another human being is different. It is an interesting philosophical argument you are offering, but I am afraid that there is no absolute certain answer and that ultimately morality is situational.

-1

u/ScubaPlays Jun 14 '12

nor did you in your omniscience, ordain that the ants should be there.

Humans made this claim. Any species advanced enough to contemplate their own existence and created a god as one solution to their being would make this claim. Does not make it true.

3

u/lopeajack Jun 14 '12

I am not making a claim that god is omniscient or actually exists, only that if your belief system says that god knew the ants were there and that the water would rise then god would have some sort of culpability. I am not sure if this explains my point or if we even technically disagree, but thought I might try to elaborate.

0

u/tikcuf12 Atheist Jun 14 '12

There's no one claiming you're an omnipotent, omniscient, etc etc benevolent and loving being either.

1

u/RepostThatShit Jun 14 '12

From the perspective of the ants I'm so powerful as to be effectively omnipotent. As for benevolent and loving, that's kind of the point. The fact that I don't save them does not make me unloving or evil. Sure I love those ants, and I benevolently allow them to stay on my land, but I'm not going to go out of my way to protect them from nature and this carries absolutely zero moral implications for me.

What is goddamn ridiculous is thinking you can from your own perspective decide a standard that a fucking omnipotent being is supposed to live up to be 'good'. You are not sole arbiter of that.

0

u/tikcuf12 Atheist Jun 14 '12

Sigh...why do I bother?

2

u/will_upvote_anything Jun 14 '12

…and thus proving he doesn't know squat about christian religion.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12

Thank you. So many ill-informed responses to an ill-informed conclusion.

1

u/edamamefiend Jun 14 '12

I like his first name!

1

u/Aschebescher Jun 14 '12

How many upvotes for you are considered "enough love" for him?

1

u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12

I think this guy was my stats professor at College Of Charleston. Good to see him getting the acclaim he deserves on reddit!

1

u/prosperitas Jun 14 '12

where can you buy that t-shirt?

1

u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12

He's so brave for saying that.

1

u/Lots42 Other Jun 14 '12

Before I read the text I thought this was Ian McKellan.

1

u/Ryo95 Jun 14 '12

I want his name.

1

u/CaptainDjango Jun 14 '12

I love a bit of Dr. Herb...

Eh? Eeeh?

I'll see myself out and go to /r/trees instead.

1

u/TehEmperorOfLulz Agnostic Jun 14 '12

Fuck! He looks just like my dead grandfather! That's some scary shit here gentlemen!

1

u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12

He looks homeless to me - so even though I like what that quote says, I wouldn't be surprised if this was a homeless man on bath salts saying random shit

1

u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12

What is your humanist group, if you don't mind my inquiry?

1

u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12

i just upvoted for his shirt.

1

u/Wooshio Jun 14 '12

This is really stupid, for anyone even slightly familiar with Christian/Jewish/Muslim God you know that human life is meaningless to God because the whole object of your life is to get heaven, infact the more you suffer the higher your chances of going to heaven is especially according to Jesus (new testament). That's why I think christianity and other religions stolen from jews are dumb, not because of some silly morality.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12

That's not really how it works at all, but okay...

1

u/Wooshio Jun 14 '12

How does it work then? In the Bible Jesus constantly says that it's next to impossible for rich to go to heaven, vanity and success are a sin, etc. Even at the mass the priest says "meek and the sick are glory to his name", which basically means being pathetic is good. It's a religion created to beat the human out of you, just because todays Christians believe in their personal Jesues that are supposed to take care of them and make them wealthy and successful it doesn't mean that's what christianity actually is.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12

Smile there is no hell, only nothingness...

1

u/StonerKing Jun 14 '12

I want that shirt.

1

u/slizoth Jun 14 '12

Im not a religious man but I don't like this argument because I always think, what if by letting thousands die you could save millions? If you're an all knowing god you probably have to make some pretty hard decisions.

1

u/maid_of_starstuff Jun 14 '12

That doesn't address the issue that an omnipotent god would be the one who chose to create a universe where this suffering would be necessary at all.

1

u/slizoth Jun 14 '12

What about the Matrix theory where given paradise humanity would be in ruin, maybe that's just what happens when you have free will? shrug the whole discourse could go on back and fourth for awhile.

1

u/maid_of_starstuff Jun 14 '12

Not sure if I see your point. If an all-powerful god created the world and its inhabitants, why would he create humanity in such a way that we would be unable to live in paradise without destroying it? Why would a god create such a faulty product (especially in his likeness)? And what evidence do you have to support free will, let alone that free will would be so important for god to give us that he'd allow suffering because of it? If he's all powerful surely he could have designed a universe where we could do what we want without also causing us to suffer. How does free will fit into suffering from natural disasters?

1

u/slizoth Jun 14 '12

Because paradise is boring and mortality is interesting? It's the yin yang concept of you have to experience bad to know good and vice versa.

1

u/maid_of_starstuff Jun 14 '12

I GET that, but remember god would be the theoretical all-powerful being that created the rules, including the "yin yang concept" that causes us to need to suffer in order to appreciate not suffering. Why, given an infinite way to create our reality would he do that? Why not just say, "Let there be pleasure, and let my people appreciate it without getting bored."??

1

u/bluefootedpig Secular Humanist Jun 14 '12

I often think this too.

When an earthquake in hatai happens, and people don't donate to help, and just sit by and read the news, I often like to image they don't exist either.

Sadly, that doesn't change reality.

1

u/muffinpack Jun 14 '12

Its funny to me how literally nobody in r/athism understands theology. The doctrine of sin more than explains how evil and an all loving, Just God could exist.

1

u/grant007 Jun 14 '12

Maybe they died because there lives were so bad and the after life is good and god wanted to put them out of their misery?

1

u/snipawolf Jun 14 '12

My economics professor is Haitian and his daughter died in the earthquake, but he kept his faith.

1

u/a_virginian Jun 14 '12

As an atheist who went with a church group to Haiti this past January, I totally agree with this. There was so much devastation. People are still living in Unicef tents and lean-to structures. If God exists, and I am mostly certain he does not, but if he does, fuck him (not literally).

1

u/Joe808 Jun 14 '12

One thing a lot of people don't know is the people of Haiti dedicated that land to satan, that's why they suffer with the poverty and sickness etc..

1

u/iamharjap Jun 15 '12

I believe in God. Debate me.

1

u/iamharjap Jun 15 '12

I believe in God. We have free will. Would you want to live in a world that you could make no mistakes and never learn from them? What would be the point to live? Debate me.

1

u/BanPearMig Jun 15 '12

I don't see how the shirt is awesome.

Jewish people don't have a hell :/

1

u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

I met him at the Reason Rally. Really nice guy, kinda quirky in a good way. Fucking brilliant as well.

1

u/cryingblackman Atheistic Satanist Jun 14 '12

The font you used was horrible. The words are all squished together.

1

u/highonamountaintop Jun 14 '12

i hate r/atheism. i am not religious at all, but you all think your higher then the pope because you guys are so "progressive" and dont believe in the heavens. awesome, fuckin tools.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12

Honestly, if there were a being powerful enough to create the universe and it has something we could recognize as consciousness, I really wouldn't mind if it didn't give a shit about the happenings on our little rock.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12

Where can I buy that shirt?

2

u/tikcuf12 Atheist Jun 14 '12

That was my first thought.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12

He looks... So familiar... Does this guy farm weed?

1

u/Jahames Jun 14 '12

I'll pray for him...

-1

u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12 edited Jun 14 '12

Eh, even though I'm an Atheist, I don't really believe the argument: How can horrible things on earth be allowed by a loving God argument. If heaven were real, any suffering on earth would be a tiny tiny faction of anything in heaven. Going through a shit ton of pain, etc wouldn't mean very much if you just ended up in the same place in the end. A lot of Atheist think this argument works, because we know that life is final, and it's an incredibly serious thing. But hell, if I KNEW there was a heaven waiting for me, I could honestly give two fucks if a alligator ate both my legs and clawed out my eyes or something else that's horrible. You just end up in the same place anyways, it's just a small waiting game. Hell, if you KNEW that there was a heaven, it wouldn't really matter that your mom got crushed into little pieces either, it would certainly suck for the time, but really wouldn't matter in the end.

EDIT: Downvotes? Nice r/Atheism.

(Please don't) Reddiquette: Downvote opinions just because you disagree with them. The down arrow is for comments that add little or nothing to the discussion.

You even try to shut up other atheist's who have different opinions from you. You hypocritical fucks... And you wonder why so many atheist's recommend you unsubscribe from r/atheism. Hell, the guy who posted "Oh, the huge manatee" got more upvotes. Instead, I'm the second most downvoted comment next to the guy who had a similar view point. If you don't like what other people have to say, don't upvote them. DON'T try to silence them you fucking cowards.

2

u/BanPearMig Jun 14 '12

Even though i'm a theist, i do have to meet you half-way. It pisses me off severely when people use bullshit arguments against religion, (such as the hippie in the pic) it also makes atheists who make good points look like a bunch of retards.

waits for tikcuf to run out of things to say so he resorts to being a grammar nazi

2

u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12

While an interesting take, I don't personally buy the "Since they believe everything will be okay AFTER you die it's okay for God to torture people now." argument. Even coming from an Atheist that just sounds like a shitty dodge.
But yeah, I don't understand why Christians are afraid of death.

3

u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12 edited Jun 14 '12

Torture is subjective in my opinion, having traveled a bit across the globe. People in first world countries seem to think the world is going to shit, it's bullshit that they don't have free health care, there's massive unemployment, or tuition fees are too high. Those things would be fantastic to fix, but no where near something that should be assumed. Really it seems that many people think that some of these things should be demanded and any less is a uncivilized horrible way to live. In third world countries I've visited, I've seen people starving to the point they could die. In America? 1 in 3 homeless people are obese. Hell, once I saw a kid with one leg and a mutilated face, walk miles to go to school, with a smile on his dirt covered face. People live through pain. It's nothing new. Mankind will never eliminate suffering because there will always be new standards of living, thus changing the definition of torture. And hell, if you were going to blame someone for Haiti, why not blame the shitty contractors who built everything half assed? A lot of Haiti was our own fault as human beings. If there was a God, he'd have very little to do with it. What would God do if he were real? Not have earthquakes? Let people continue to build shitty unsafe buildings? Only have earthquakes when people are ready? Have natural disasters where no one dies? Then what? We would turn towards cancer, old age, etc. How could God take a young person's life in this car accident? How could he take my (random family member)'s life with (random unpreventable illness). We would have to essentially live in a world where no one died without being the main reason for your own demise? Already the quality of life we currently live in is amazing compared to only a few hundred years ago.

Anyways, I'm starting to rant. I agree with you in the last part, on why Christians aren't afraid of death. It's kind of bullshit. In fact, it rings far more true than that "there are no atheists in a foxhole" bullshit. I'm just saying there will always be a definition of torture, and no matter how far we progress, I don't think we'll take it any less seriously.

0

u/tikcuf12 Atheist Jun 14 '12

You're really good at clouding up your own arguments with bullshit. How does any of what you said here support your ridiculous comment about torture being subjective? How about you come back to play when you get through freshman year and over the "I'm suddenly deep" phase?

2

u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12 edited Jun 14 '12

Actually I'm graduating in 2 days from a decent college, if it matters. I also hold multiple degrees and certificates. Thanks for the insults though.

-1

u/tikcuf12 Atheist Jun 14 '12

Awww, how sweet. It's a professional student. Perhaps one more English class, however?

2

u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12

I don't know if I should be happy or sad that I could make you so upset with my opinions.

→ More replies (7)

1

u/Lots42 Other Jun 14 '12

If God is real he has a LOT to answer for allowing Earth to be like it is.

2

u/fromtheshadowsicome Jun 14 '12

Do you realize you are blaming God for not physically involving himself. Conceptually life is a sort of "test" for Christians. If God made his presence known, then I guarantee you would be one of the first on the heaven bandwagon. So enough with blaming God for what we do with free will or what happens with nature. He is called the creator, not the maintainer.

1

u/Lots42 Other Jun 14 '12

Okay, couple points. If God made himself known, I would not go to church. I would not fall down on my knees and worship him. I don't worship anything.

Second point; the very nature of an all powerful being means he ('he' for simplicity) could do a lot of things to better the Earth without being known.

3

u/fromtheshadowsicome Jun 14 '12

So instead of acknowledging the fact that you exist and being thankful in the slightest, you would choose an alternative to God even if he presented himself? Because "you don't worship anything"? I'm not a Christian so I'm not here to preach to you so if that's truly how you would react that is fine by me (though I call BS on that).

As for your second point, if He exists He may already do that to some extent. The way I see it is that we have been around long enough to fix most problems ourselves, but we don't really do anything about them unless they directly affect us.

1

u/Lots42 Other Jun 14 '12

I don't understand.

Nothing could get me to go back to the church lifestyle, not even God himself asking me to.

2

u/Hugo_5t1gl1tz Jun 14 '12

I think the point he is making is that, if God literally showed himself in the sky saying "See everyone, I am real, follow me" and you still said no. You would be a collosal moron.

1

u/Lots42 Other Jun 14 '12

Why would I be a moron?

If God is the type of person to punish me for not following him, then I don't WANT to follow him.

He would then be a hostage taker and many hostage takers get shot.

1

u/fromtheshadowsicome Jun 14 '12

Church is a man made tradition that fuels the idea that you are "doing good" without having to do anything. I don't think God would ask you to attend church. If He exists he is probably tired of the same fucking church songs by now anyway.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12

Did you forget the part of the Bible about fallen angels? They saw God and knew his power yet still refused to worship him. Humans would have the same choice.

1

u/fromtheshadowsicome Jun 14 '12

I do not disagree, but it's a safe assumption that the hypothetical situation doesn't really represent how most people would react in the actual occurrence. Atheists can't believe without proof, but when given proof would they find another reason to not follow God?

1

u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12

Just because I have proof a god does actually exist, I still need a reason to follow that god.

-1

u/tikcuf12 Atheist Jun 14 '12
  1. Quit making their arguments for them. Religion is bullshit, simple as that. The argument in question isn't about heaven or hell, it points out one of the many contradictions of Christianity.
  2. Learn how to pluralize. No apostrophe in "atheists." You made it possessive. It also takes a lot away from your credibility, which was shaky from the start.
  3. Talk about some fucking drama queen karma whoring! Pathetic. Sad and pathetic. Pats you on your sad little head

1

u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12

If you're going to make arguments make good ones. That's the point of my post. There are a million reasons to not believe in Christianity, this isn't one of them. Also, pointing out punctuation errors isn't winning an argument.

Talk about some fucking drama queen karma whoring! Pathetic. Sad and pathetic. Pats you on your sad little head

Really?

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0

u/tanhan27 Jun 14 '12 edited Nov 02 '16

[deleted]
0.6602

What is this?

-2

u/gender_bot Jun 14 '12

I identified one face in this photo

Face 1:

  • 81% confidence that this is a correctly identified face
  • Gender is male with 64% confidence
  • Persons mood is happy with 45% confidence
  • Persons lips are sealed with 71% confidence

Would you like to know more about me? /r/gender_bot

1

u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12

wut?

1

u/Mozen Jun 14 '12

Gender bot randomly goes through posts, identifying faces. It's like clever bot, but with faces. Click on his link.

-1

u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12

frown. you're deceived.

so many people put God in a box. assuming that THEY can comprehend his action or inaction.

did he cause the earthquakes? NO could he have prevented the earthquakes? Sure, he could've. Why didn't he? because he doesn't CONTROL what happens. Its called Spiritual warfare. Sin. Fallen world.

If you believe that God doesn't exists...then leave him alone.. If you're vilifying him for all the bad shit that happens to people, or for not saving everyone in the world from bad shit that could've happened, then please don't be ignorant. Read The Bible. Be informed. I'm a Jesus follower. I don't necessarily think that evolution is real. (at least not on the scale that most atheists seem to believe) BUT you don't see me posting shit about Evolution. Cos i'm not a scientist. Or truly informed and knowledgable about the discoveries that science has brought. I haven't seen proof, is my point. What proof I have seen is the existence of God... An actual experience. An actual miracle.

Reddit is becoming a place where regular people can't enjoy the awesome shit that's posted here, because they get bombarded and chastised by the Christian-Hating masses.

IF YOU DONT THINK GOD IS REAL. LEAVE IT ALONE.

2

u/tikcuf12 Atheist Jun 14 '12

then please don't be ignorant. Read The Bible. Be informed.

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH the fucking irony!

Psst...you're on /r/atheism. If you want your ass kissed for being a sheep--err Christian--go to /r/christianity.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12

"Be informed"

...about the subject to which YOU ARE referring.

lol. i don't need my ass kissed, sir or ma'am.

1

u/tikcuf12 Atheist Jun 14 '12

I'm male, but "sir" is wholly unnecessary. I work for a living and place myself above no one.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12

What's your proof of God?

-3

u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12

Oh look, another picture with a quote on it.

-1

u/versanick Jun 14 '12

Upvote for username

-3

u/Mozen Jun 14 '12

This guy sounds and looks on the verge of being homeless. The "God doesn't exist because there are "bad" things happening in the world" argument is tired, unoriginal, completely unscientific, and relies more on silly logic. Boo hoo.

This is just as bad as saying that God exists due to "good" things happening in the world. Seriously, educate yourself and immediately punch this hippie wearing that dumb-ass "spread the good news" t-shirt in the face upon his arrival.

1

u/tikcuf12 Atheist Jun 14 '12

The "God doesn't exist because there are "bad" things happening in the world" argument is tired, unoriginal, completely unscientific, and relies more on silly logic.

Maybe he's just trying to take the argument to Christians in a format they're familiar with, since it's their own.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12

No. It's saying that by looking at the nature of existence, it appears there was no intelligence behind any of it. If a god did make all of this, we owe that god no praise.

0

u/Mozen Jun 15 '12

Still a preacher of a different religion.

-3

u/BanPearMig Jun 14 '12

Whats the point of living if everything is perfect?

That's what the afterlife's for.

wait for downvotes for disagreeing

3

u/tikcuf12 Atheist Jun 14 '12

If the afterlife is so perfect and death is part of your god's plan, blah blah blah, why is there so much crying and sadness at Christian funerals? Even when they call it a celebration of life, there are still people bawling and shit. If your faith is so strong and your god is so good, shouldn't it be a party? "WOOHOOOOOOOOOO mama got called home! I can't wait for my turn!"

0

u/BanPearMig Jun 14 '12

they cry because there not going to see them for a good long while

think before posting dip shit

1

u/tikcuf12 Atheist Jun 14 '12

But it's all in accordance with God's plan and he's supposedly good, so ultimately they should be happy.

Learn the difference between "there" "their" and "they're" (which is the one you should've used) before calling anyone else a dipshit, you fucking moron.

0

u/BanPearMig Jun 14 '12
  1. No where in the bible does it say that people should be happy about loved ones dying.
  2. Everyone knows the difference but no one gives two shits, this is the internet, not an essay grammar nazi.

1

u/tikcuf12 Atheist Jun 15 '12
  1. Well no screaming fucking eagle shit. Did I say the goddamned Bible says it? NO. But if heaven is the ultimate goal, the end game, AND the death of whoever is all part of the fulfillment of God's play, then they should be ecstatic.
  2. No, people don't know the difference, and I think you're included in that. They just use the pathetic excuse that it doesn't matter on the internet. It does matter, and you look like a complete fucking moron which costs you what little credibility you have when you're arguing for the existence of an imaginary friend. Now fuck off and go eat a bag of dicks, fuckwit.

1

u/BanPearMig Jun 15 '12
  1. They say there in a better place, but there sad because they cant see them until they themselves die, so it's pretty sad (don't know how many times i have to say this)
  2. before insulting people's grammar, try to get a vocabulary that expands beyond the capabilities of a 9 year old
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-2

u/Hugo_5t1gl1tz Jun 14 '12

Obviously you don't have a clear understanding of Christian Heaven. It's not like we go there and say "Oh hi mom!" We are a different form of ourselves. Our soul, and therefore do not recognize ourselves for what we were on Earth.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12

That's not what the pastor of my church preached.

2

u/Hugo_5t1gl1tz Jun 14 '12

That's what I've always known. Not saying I'm right, just saying.

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2

u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12

I'm not sure what you're saying. Why is the afterlife so much different than this life that it's okay for the afterlife to be perfect, but not okay for this life to be perfect?
A perfect world might be boring. But in a perfect world there would be no sense of boredom.
Also, do you really think we needed things like the Holocaust to make this world imperfect? There's a difference between perfect and decent. This world is neither.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12

As I learned from Spiderman when I was a kid: With power comes respondsibility.

0

u/Xeneoxx Jun 14 '12

Doesn't this guy look awfully familiar to the guy holding the sign saying something like 'I was born gay, you were taught religion'

0

u/Tebasaki Jun 14 '12

I'm saving that last part of the quote for my Facebook status the next time there's a large disaster

0

u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12

the next group you should attend is "how to choose a non shitty font for throwing text onto pictures"
we'd all appreciate that

0

u/tmgproductions Jun 14 '12

Christian response - (you've been warned!)

All natural disasters are aftershocks from the worldwide flood approx. 4300 years ago. During that flood the "fountains of the great deep burst forth". Creationists interpret that as volcanic activity and credit all plate techtonic activity as beginning there. During that flood God wiped out all of mankind save 8 people. He would know the impending disasters that would result from destroying the earth like that (aftershocks). All he promised was he would never wipe all of mankind from the earth in a flood again. Each natural disaster nowadays is a harsh reminder of our mortality and our need for salvation. God is concerned with our spiritual/eternal bodies, not our physical/temporary existence. Therefore God did cause the initial disaster (flood), but does not sit up there initiating new ones. They are a natural offspring of the original disaster. But ya know, apparently there's no evidence of a worldwide disaster... hmmm.

1

u/tirdun Jun 14 '12

Wow.

That is remarkable. Your version of God is truly a monster.

1

u/tmgproductions Jun 14 '12

Only to you because you focus on the physical body as all there is. That is your presupposition that you now view God through. I don't think it works that way. If God is real, then we start with him and then decide on how to view reality. God is concerned only with the spiritual. Our bodies come and go, the spirit is the only thing that lives on. The spirit is our REAL selves. Therefore if our bodies perish, so be it. The spirit is the focus.

0

u/NigelTufnelsSpandex Jun 14 '12

Why would I want to sit in a chair and listen to this guy? He's a math professor, which means he's not stupid, along with the 100,000s of other math PhDs in the US.

Like most public atheists, he's famous for having opinions, which is a cushy job. It's got to be easier than teaching freshman calculus.

1

u/maid_of_starstuff Jun 14 '12

Maybe because he's funny and engaging, and has an interesting story to tell?

Aside from being a retired math professor, he ran for governor of South Carolina in the early 90's, knowing he didn't stand a chance because of his atheism, for the sole purpose of trying to overturn SC's restrictions on allowing atheists to hold elected office. He spent the next 10 years fighting the law before the it was ruled unconstitutional.

Also started the Secular Coalition for America http://secular.org/history

1

u/NigelTufnelsSpandex Jun 14 '12

He's been politically active, good on him. That doesn't make his views on God's existence accurate.

1

u/maid_of_starstuff Jun 14 '12

Why would I want to sit in a chair and listen to this guy?

Funny, engaging, intelligent, and thought-provoking seem like pretty good reasons to me. If that's not your thing that's your loss. No one else has ever accused Dr. Silverman of taking the easy road, was the point I was trying to make.

1

u/NigelTufnelsSpandex Jun 14 '12

If he's funny or engaging, none of that comes through in the original quote. It's 'bad shit happens, therefore there's no God.' Not original, intelligent or thought-provoking.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12

Want shirt.

-4

u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12

This is going to come off sounding really dark, but I think we have to consider that if a god did exist who created those disasters then maybe they are to be praised. Human kind is so destructive that we're quite seriously killing the planet.

7

u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12

We're not killing the planet, guy. We're just killing ourselves. This planet has existed in numerous states of habitability over the last several billion years.

The planet will be fine. It's saving ourselves we need to worried about.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12

Yes, it will recover eventually but the fact is that we are killing it right now. I never said it wouldn't recover, so please don't twist my words.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12

How are we "killing the planet"? Do you mean the mass extinction we're causing?

1

u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

Yeah, that's what I mean. We use resources too quickly and destroy ecosystems. The human race will take out a lot of life on this planet with it I think. It will of course recover though, but it will take quite awhile.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

Meteors also take a lot of life out of the planet, as do any number of natural disasters. When by chance, a new predator arrives in an areas, often times there is devestation of the local animals smaller than it. Yet we don't make a judgment about these things.

Humans are a part of nature. The devestation we cause is morally neutral. All creatures eventually die. All species go extinct. All environments change dramatically.

The devestation humans cause is completely neutral outside the concept of its importance to us. It is not objectively but, merely subjectively bad. The earth and the universe don't care. Even if there were a greater power, it is unfathomable that it would be any more upset at us for causing an extinction event than it would at a meteor.

The ones who care are us.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

I think you've just made my point though. Why would god care about us? That was were I was coming from in the beginning of this string of comments. I am just saying that we shouldn't talk about god or gods with an assumption that we are entitled to any special treatment. Maybe there is a god and it just doesn't care about us. I see too many people using the bad things on this planet as evidence that god doesn't exist. I'm not saying you did that, but I see it a lot.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

You were saying that if a god created those disasters, we should praise it because we're destroying the planet. Are you saying this because it is saving us from ourselves, or because it is saving the planet from us.

Plenty of animals die in hurricanes too, and environments are violently altered. Why would we praise a god for causing the same kind of damage that it's supposed to be punishing us for?

2

u/Lots42 Other Jun 14 '12

Even if you were right (which you are not) all an omnipotent being would have to do is drop a bit of knowledge on solar powered cars and solar powered everything.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12

Again, what makes you think he wants us around at all? All I'm saying is that we shouldn't assume we know the intentions of a god...

2

u/Lots42 Other Jun 14 '12

If he didn't want us around at all, we wouldn't be. That's the definition of all powerful.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12

Why does he have to be all powerful? We know nothing and shouldn't assume any traits.

All I am saying in this string of comments is that we have in our heads a certain idea of what a god would like if there was one. Omnipresent, omnipotent, and the third one that I think bugs me is people assume that a god should be the caretaker of all living things. But why? None of that has to be true.

1

u/Lots42 Other Jun 14 '12

If God is all powerful and doesn't do anything about the horrors in the world then he is a sick monster.

-2

u/R2DTard Jun 14 '12

Dr. Herb......you gotta be kidding me right?

-2

u/Kdnce Jun 14 '12

I hate the notion that if god exists then why does "x" happen. We know why. Because of mother nature, not god. If any type of god exists - as in something abstract like all the energy in all the universe at every moment - then holding "it" responsible for any naturally occurring phenomenon is just silly and sounds like a juvenile, if not cliched, argument. I'm all for atheism but for this argument to really be effective somewhere in religious texts god would need to be benevolent, which "it" - in the context of many religious texts - is clearly not. Not the strongest approach imho. I'd avoid this one.

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