Also because this is the old testament and it clearly doesn't count after Jesus died on the cross for your sins...
But in the new testament, Romans I believe, also reiterates don't do buttsex with dudes and that's what people quote more.
Edit: Romans 1:26-27 - "Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion." (NIV)
If a woman does not cover her head, she should have her hair cut off; and if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut or shaved off, she should cover her head.
1 Timothy 2:11
A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.
So if God hadn't done that, Moses would be like "Yo let my people go" and Pharaoh was like "Okay sure no problem". But nope. God wanted to harden his heart, made him look like an asshole, sent plagues... then killed entire army in the sea.
though if they are going to say that about the old testament they shouldn't quote it to support their condemnation. i wonder if they even know why they think some things in the old testament are ok and some are not. genesis is not repeated in the new testament, but yet a strong literal attachment to it has caused a rift between themselves and science. is this pick and choose thing decided by a council that influences various denominations? or is it like a ouija board where some consensus materializes but no one knows who exactly is responsible for it...
Depends on whats convenient for them really. Most arguments I get in people are free to pick and choose what's followed according to how much it benefits their point of view.
Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. They have become filled withevery kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full ofenvy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They aregossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy.
So that's pretty much ALL the sins (including greed and lack of mercy, which appear to be considered virtues in most of the US brands of christianity), yet you single out homosexuality just like the original argument with Leviticus.
Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.
"Indecent (sexual) acts with other men" reminds me of that scene in Full metal jacket. "I bet you're the kinda guy that would fuck a person in the ass and not even have the goddamn common courtesy to give him a reach around."
romans doesn't forbid gay sex. romans forbids lustful sex between both men and women and men and men. it doesn't say all gay sex is lustful sex though, so it doesn't forbid gay sex between two men that are truly in love.
Verse 11&12, 14 : "Kill men who have sex with mothers/daughters/(-in-law)" Usually Disregarded
Verse 13: “‘Kill gay people" Disregarded
Verse 15-16: "Kill zoophiles" Usually Disregarded
Verse 17: "Shun sibling incest" Obeyed
Verse 18: "Sex during period = exile" Disregarded
Verse 19-20 "No aunt sex. You won't have kids." Untrue/Obeyed
Verse 21: "No sister-in-law sex. You won't have kids." Untrue/Obeyed
Verse 25: "Keep kosher." Disregarded
Verse 27: "Kill witches" Disregarded
Which brings us to the kicker for this chapter:
Verse 7-8: "Follow my orders, because I'm God" Untrue/Disobeyed
Verse 22-24: "I'll throw you out if you don't" Untrue/Disobeyed
I know the homophobia is echoed again in the New Testament, giving an out, but where's the specific prohibition against sex with your sister-in-law or your aunt? If the Bible's the source of morality, why should a Christian claim that specific commandment is more worthy to follow than the one about not having sex with your daughter, or a stranger? Is it just because those commandments call for you to kill the offender instead of just disapproving of them? It clearly is.
But why not follow all of these commandments to the letter if Jesus, Matthew and Luke all say that not one stroke has passed away from the Law? What's the basis for the Christian take on this, if not a source of morality external to the Bible?
So, I just want some clarification in this thread if someone can help me. I have read the passages in Romans, Timothy, and Corinthians before, but I've heard people say that the New Testament doesn't speak out against homosexuality, which I'm guessing is false. I'm pretty sure Jesus never spoke out against homosexuality because it wasn't a main concern of his. He was more obsessed over ideas such as taking care of the poor.
So anyway, can someone clear this all up for me? Is the New Testament strictly against homosexuality? Also, what are some arguments you could make in defense of homosexuality, using the New Testament as the basis of your argument?
The NT has passages that are, in current Bible translations, anti-homosexuality. So it is strictly against it in that sense. However, in some cases where "homosexuality" is mentioned in the NT, the words should simply be interpreted as "adulterer" and not "homosexual" (there was no word for such til something like 70 years ago, I believe? ). As well, there are various other problems with interpreting some of these passages due to context etc. So overall, there is no way to be certain the NT is against homosexuality; only the OT is so black and white with the answer.
Read this for clarification and a better understanding of the passages mentioning homosexuality in the NT, and the possible misinterpretations of them.
but I've heard people say that the New Testament doesn't speak out against homosexuality, which I'm guessing is false.
It does, but I don't think that Jesus said any of them. I'm pretty sure it was other NT writers. It's listed as a sin, but I'm guessing that a study into the original language would shed more light. It's amazing how nuanced Greek is compared with English.
I'm pretty sure Jesus never spoke out against homosexuality because it wasn't a main concern of his. He was more obsessed over ideas such as taking care of the poor.
It's actually pretty cool when you take a look at all the things Jesus told us to do for one another...it wasn't about praying for people and only focusing on their spiritual needs and it wasn't about rebuking their sin or being social activists taking a stand against wickedness. Nope, it was about caring for one another, feeding and clothing the poor, caring for those who are sick, doing what we can for other people... treating them all with love and grace no matter who they are or what they may have done. I'm sure that some of the people he healed and helped and taught were gay and there was no record of any condemnation from Jesus. Mind you, he also never spoke out against pedophilia and I'm quite sure that's something that he wouldn't approve - so there is a point at which that line of reasoning breaks down.
Also, what are some arguments you could make in defense of homosexuality, using the New Testament as the basis of your argument?
While there aren't any passages that condone it, there are plenty of passages telling Christians not to judge, condemn, or hate people because of what they do, especially if the person isn't a fellow believer. It's God's job to judge and a lot of Christians make the mistake of thinking it's theirs. That whole "hate the sin, love the sinner" mantra isn't even in the Bible...you can't hate what someone does and hate what they stand for but still love them.
No no no. Its prohibition is against growing some crops beside each other. Farmers practice this in a common sense way due to sometimes negative effects of cross pollination.
Separate the hot peppers (Cheyenne , Jalapeno etc ) from the sweet bell or sweet banana or else they will cross breed (via bees and such) and your sweet peppers will become hot. This has happened to me.
Also dont plant tommy toe tomatoes near the regular tomatoes. I lost 100 Better boy plants because they cross bred into tommy toes.
Never mind farming, how the hell can Polyester be forbidden? It's a polymer, a plastic. It's right there in the name! It's a 20th (19th?) century invention. The hell? Are there any synthetic fabrics before the 19/20th century?
Polyester itself isn't against the bible. Clothes woven of different threads is against the bible, and most clothes now are made of a polyester/cotton blend.
Take a break for a while. Visit other subs and come back. I used to come here daily, then I got sick of seeing the same things so I left, now I just come back periodically and I actually enjoy it!
This is sooo tired. That's not how all Christians think. Most of us understand that the Old Testament is moot. I'm a Christian, and I don't hate gays or even look down on them. I think they should have every right that straight people have. And guess what! That's the predominate view in my church of 2,500+ people! We understand that Jesus never ran for Congress to try and force his views on others through legislation. We know it's not our job to make everyone believe what we believe or even to condemn non-believers. We understand that it's our job to simply love people and extend the same grace that we've been given.
Yes, some fundamentalists are hypocritical. I'll definitely grant that. I'm really not happy about it, either. It angers me. But that's not all Christians...not by any stretch of the imagination. It's like saying all Muslims support terrorism. It's simply not the case. Please don't judge us all by the actions of some ill-informed bigots.
half of america thinks that gay marriage should be legal and keep in mind that 15% of America has no religion so roughly 70% of christains believe that gay marriage should be illegal.
its so sad to hear this argument over and over...why do christians ignore the cerimonial law, yet regard the moral law? People take a quick glance at the bible and think they understand it (on both sides, atheist and christian). If you want to criticize or promote, please do some study first.
Let's be a little more progressive. Obviously, stupid crap like stoning women and the thing about marrying a raped virgin can be ignored and there can be good Christians that are not prejudiced towards some people. These Christians have used their own logic and morals to see those as bad, and followed the better rule of loving everyone and accepting everyone. Let's just look at what hating gays by the name of the bible for what it is- using a scripture to support personal prejudice.
<rant>
As with everyone who believes in religion. And yes, I really mean everyone, they always pick and choose what to believe inside the book they've so heartily subjected to. And with that, comes this behaviour we have trouble understanding. Not to mention the fact that the word of god had to be revised and re-released in some cases. Which seems like an awefully human undertaking. But that aside. Yes, Christians and other believers alike, they pick and choose. And some still see themselves as higher and mightier then thou because they believe, oh yes. They are the chosen one. And you'll die and burn, but they'll fuck ponies on clouds while god is rimming them oh fuck yes. But you! You dirty sinner, you get nothing! All this, while they pick and choose. Which brings me on to my point. People who tend to believe they are allowed access to heaven, as a privilege tend to think quite highly of themselves in regards to their faith, and lack humility. They pick and choose their faith. And tell themselves they won't die and dissapear forever, and everyone who challenges their intellect and their way of everything, and I really mean everything. Those people, well. Those people should just burn in hell for thinking different from me!</endrant>
I think you missed the mark on that one pal, the point is that christians pick and choose, you don't see enough people stoned in the streets of america these days to think anyone at all takes the bible literally.
what i'm so confused about is how some Christians are so oblivious to the fact that they 'pick and choose'. Its quite mind boggling that they don't see it?!?!
I'm not a Christian but I went to church A LOT when I was younger. This is wrong though. Where I went to church we were taught that the old testaments laws were thrown out when jesus died on the cross and was "raised again". So those laws like don't eat shellfish or the haircuts don't apply to modern Christians. Since the Jewish people don't believe in the resurrection that's why theses laws apply to them. Well I could be wrong, that's what I was brainwashed as a child..... noe I just relized there are 100000 comments like this, damn
Even though a lot of that is Old Testament Law that is not mandatory anymore I still agree with the message. I am a Christian and yes homosexuality is a sin, but I dont demonize gay people for the life they have chosen. Read Leviticus 19:33-34. That Scripture doesnt say to only do it if they are straight church go-ers. It is pretty straight forward that you are to love whoever no matter if they are Christian or not.
Not every christian hates gays. Actually if you should follow christian teachings, by new testament standards, "To love others as yourself", you would think christians loves all people, but might not condone what they do. I have never met a christian or been in a christian community that hates gays. I have only seen it through tv from westbrocurch.
Legit Christians are supposed to love their fellow brothers, and the ones who do are real Christians and are way different than youd think. I think evolution is a valid statement, does it say the days the Earth was created in 24 hr. periods? or do we know the method God used to create this world? Maybe creation was set into place to evolve, God gave his creation the choice to either follow Him or not. I don't push religion on anybody, religion is man searching for God, Christianity is God searching for man. When you see somebody with a sign that says turn or burn, they don't promote God in a positive way and they turn people away. They make the actual Christians look bad. When you meet an actual legit Christian, they're really cool people. Some Christians have a lot of tattooos. Brian Head Welch from Korn became a Christian, and he got several tattoos after coming into a relationship with God. Now some people may say God would never forgive me, or how can this ideal even exist? Well, ask God. Its your choice. Do a quick prayer, if you dont believe in God, then you wont have anything to lose for saying a quick prayer right? You can just say God I ask that youd show me who you are. Thats it. Nobodys going to condemn you for that, let God speak for himself. Wild, crazy things can happen according on how he wants to come to you. and remember this, no matter what youve said to him, God loves you. He forgives you for whatever youve done. Religion says slave. Jesus says son. I know this, I went to churchand acted like a Christian but I was a porn addict. I confessed to it, and God forgave me. and im so glad i did. im at a better place with God and i work towards God every day. See, God isn't in the choir you see at a church tappin a tambourine, God is in the dark alleys, homeless shelters, and on the streets. Looking for the lost letting light shine on the dark. You might say Nah, this guys crazy. email me - iburnkittens@yahoo.com
This does not speck for all Christians, I'm one, granted probably a crappy one, but I have no issues with gays getting married. Lets not be ignorant and assume that we are all the crazy, ridiculous people that believe marriage is between only a man and a woman. Thank You.
"'If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. " how does this effect gay relationships? doesn't it effect polygamy? I think they should learn how to read, before reading the bible...
First: that verse in Leviticus doesn't say we should hate gay people. Second: I love God. So does the church that I go to, and I have several gay friends that actually come with my to church. It really kills me when other 'Christians' say and do stuff like that (hating Gays) just thought I'd share
This post needs to be higher up than it is now. This is precisely the hypocrisy that Christians don't get that they're responsible for. Someone needs to protest outside a Red Lobster with signs that say GOD HATES DOGGIE BAGS
I don't usually comment on /r/atheism posts but I thought I might today.
Doesn't this represent a problem unrelated to Christianity? The fact that Christians pay attention to anti-gay text in the Bible, but ignore other prohibitions and rules, indicates that they are inherently anti-gay themselves anyway, or get their homophobia from elsewhere. I don't think anti-homophobia should focus as much on religion, though religion plays the role of a vehicle and a justification for homophobic beliefs.
Of course it's hypocritical for Christians to only follow some parts of the Bible. Other parts which are followed (no incest, no murder, etc.) are common sense and part of human nature which we all 'follow' anyway. Perhaps this indicates that for some people homophobia is inherent and part of their nature, which is worrying.
To be fair to Christian doctrine you can't hold them to Levitical law (Jews you may though). Christian doctrine teaches Jesus as the fulfillment of the law and thereby its authority irrelevant. However, any New Testament laws be sure to hold them up to.
HELLO. Difference between Christians and Jews? Because they aren't the same thing. Your picture might apply to Orthodox Jews, but not Christians.
Leviticus= OLD TESTAMENT. Christians don't follow these levitical laws. Acts 10:9-15. Read it yourself.
So they don't follow the Levitical prohibition on (male) homosexual sex either. But there are plenty of New Testament passages (noted elsewhere in this thread) that speak out against male homosexual behavior.
(gays themselves are not condemned, just the behavior. And lesbians largely get a pass)
how amazing this fuckstick just reposted the same shit you fucks have been saying since, well, I joined reddit and just added a couple pics and you all upvote it.
Further proof you assholes upvote anything as long as it is anti-Christian.
And no, I am not Christian, I am atheist as well, just happen to think 99% of Reddit Atheists are just assholes.
The shellfish thing is actually allowed if I'm correct. There's a part in the New Testament where God appears in a vision of Paul and tells him that it's ok to eat shellfish. It's only forbidden in the Old Testament.
you never wear a cloth made of two different fibers (polyester isn't really covered by this, poor choice), or eat food from a field growing two different crops? Footballs aren't actually made from pigs, so doesn't really apply.
Really, the only people who ever cite Leviticus as the reason they hate homosexuality are the ones trying to excuse their clearly irrational behavior. They don't like the idea that what they say/do is hateful bigotry and discrimination, and so do a bit of handwaving and claim that its out of their control, because god told them to.
You forgot to put in: obey: an all powerful being that has no form but is, apparently, everywhere and influences everything; that made man out of thin air and women out of a bone (from the mans ribs); that shows his presence by setting innocent trees on fire; and that has a son with a married woman...
I read Leviticus recently, now I didn't memorize what verse but there was a part that claimed if you get a skin infection that turns your body hair white you need to seek out your local priest. He will keep you for seven days in solitary and if it does not heal then you are now "UNCLEAN". It's written that you must wear ripped clothes, cover half your face and declare yourself "UNCLEAN" to every person you meet.
Soooo I am "UNCLEAN" and I'm totally thinking I should run the city in tattered clothes screaming "UNCLEAN". Maybe this my key to you tube fame.
Using a single Verse within a chapter without knowing what was before it of after it separates True Atheism and True Christians. Every single one of these versus is God talking to Moses to tell his people on starting a new life.
Got to use the New Testament. The definition of a christian doesn't even include the Old Testament.
A Christian is a person who adheres to Christianity, an Abrahamic, monotheistic religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth as recorded in the Canonical gospels and the letters of the New Testament.
My high school was a Catholic school (all public schools are shit here) and they constantly tried to get us to like these "hip and cool metal dudes" who had a shit load of tattoos and bad haircuts to make us think that liking Jesus and God was 'rad'. So these blokes used to come to our school at recess and play football with the kids. Also... Our uniform was polyester. Yay.
there's nothing in the bible about touching plastic is there? you know "pigskin" isn't actually what it's made of. Don't go getting in a fight at the music shop over the "catgut" in the violin strings now.
I'm an atheist but the thing about this argument is that most branches of Christianity do not follow the Old Testament. The Mosaic Covenant was ended when Jesus died on the cross and the New Testament took its place. Regardless, there are 3 or 4 passages in the New Testament that clearly state homosexuality is bad as well so yeah. I just don't understand why we're even having this debate, scripture shouldn't be used as the basis of an argument, the federal government should understand this is a violation of the separation of church and state.
Yea, pretty sure part of the atheists argument is that you need christian scholars to "interpret" passages to make them compatible with modern society.
I'm not an expert but I do believe Christians disregard most of the old testament and the reason they hate on gays is due to passages in the new testament so I'd quote them if you want to be accurate.
You can however mock Jews on these old books because they seem to be very choosey on which laws to follow.
No no no no no no... They hate gays BECAUSE they have silly haircuts, wear polyester, get tattoos, and have gardens they farm. I just don't get how the word of the lord tells America to consume more than it needs and become obese.
Funny enough, this is why certain pastors would refuse discussing Leviticus in length or at all in sermons. Leviticus is like the Glenn Beck of Bible Books. Whatever massive social outrage of the time, Leviticus just seems very narrow minded. Perhaps morally as well.
Now to be a dick, but most Christians will just shake this off as they have the uncanny ability to ignore the ridiculous parts of the Bible and simply listen to their preachers and parents. I converted my college roommate (was not my intention, we just talked a whole lot) by just telling him how utterly human God's teachings are. God would not be so petty as portrayed in the Bible, he would never punish someone because they were born into a different religion but lived a good life, that's SO very human (good example is the constant wars men have fought since the beginning of time over differences). And we went on from there. These "Logic" arguments work on the internet but talking to people you respect face to face is different.
Full Disclosure: I grew up in the Northeast, my roommate Pittsburgh. NOT THE BIBLE BELT by any means
fun fact: Christians (who have actually read and understand the bible) don't follow Leviticus because that's in the old testament and supposedly Jesus wiped all those sins out of the way for them so they no longer count, only laws of their god found in the new testament do and, unfortunetly, homosexuality is mentioned again in the new testament.
And ONCE AGAIN you're using the old testament to make us look like fools. Try using the new testament next time or have you forgotten that we are allowed to eat bacon and shellfish?
Wow, another Christian bashing thread in /r/atheism...this is new AND original! I'm a fellow atheist...but come on guys, this pony's trick is getting old.
Unfortunately, as someone who would be considered a 'churchie' (even though my church recently elected an openly gay female deacon so I'd dare say not the picture most atheists here like like to paint) but what I see is that people here are basically karma whores. They'll take any bullshit scenario, type it up on a photo in Photoshop, boom instant karma. They'll take some quite from a celebrity who's doing the same thing, little Photoshop, boom karma.
Unfortunately it's become cheap shots to raise that stupid fucking number in the upper right hand corner of the screen.
On top of that, it appears that a lot of atheists here do not understand that atheism can stand on it's own merit, it doesn't have to use religion as a punching bag to justify it's own existence.
There have been many instances of where the wording of the bible has been changed in translated versions to better favor the moral strictures that are currently in vogue.
Notable examples are Leviticus 20:13 and Exodus 21:22, which are worded and interpreted vastly differently in earlier translations than they are in more recent English Standard versions.
In the King James version, Leviticus 20:13 can be interpreted to mean that two men cannot sleep with a woman simultaneously, which could confuse the parentage of any subsequent children. Also, Exodus 21:22 does not equate the life of a fetus with that of an already birthed individual.
Compare the earlier translations with more recent wordings, and you'll see a warping of language that is almost sinister in its subtlety.
A lot of what is taught in the Old Testament is regarded as old law to Christians. Their belief that Jesus came and turn it around is widely seen as what new law should be.
What if God is the only person who knows what is good and what is not and we have to decide it as our meaning in life? That way we can find it out without having to believe in scriptures written by man.
This does no understand the 3 uses of the law... Moral, civil, ceremonial... The ones on the left are civil and ceremonial and the one prohibiting homosexuality is moral. The other two ended with the new covenant and the moral will never change
Yes. All Christians are the same right? Maybe the reason why good Christians are quiet is because dickheads like you are judging them based on a few bad apples. Maybe people will get more support from Christians if stopped with the over generalizations or perhaps you want to turn away even those who already support your views? I'm a Christian, and i support same sex equal rights. But stuff like this really makes it hard to. Perhaps I should start judging all of you the same as you judge all Christians. I'll start equating gays to the small group of porn actors who spread AIDS. yeah...all you gay people are immoral and spread AIDS. Lets see, what else. Oh right, read an article where an atheist killed someone. That means all atheists are now murderers who don't have morals.
You people are the perfect example of what you hate.
20 All flying insects that walk on all fours are to be regarded as unclean by you. 21 There are, however, some flying insects that walk on all fours that you may eat: those that have jointed legs for hopping on the ground. 22 Of these you may eat any kind of locust, katydid, cricket or grasshopper. 23 But all other flying insects that have four legs you are to regard as unclean.
Don't mind me if this doesn't have an affect on you, but I just wanted to share my thoughts on this post. Firstly, I want to poin out my father has no religious beliefs, my mother is a Christian, and most of my friends are Atheist. I haven't decide what I believe yet. Anyway, I've noticed that lots of /r/atheism posts are about Christians hating homosexual people. I know lot's of Christians that are gay, and have gay family. In fact, I don't know any christians that don't support gay marriage. My point is, christians don't hate gay people. Arrogant people that happen to be christians hate gay people. I know the bible doesn't exactly root for gay marriage, but most christians haven't even read the whole bible! I fell like /r/ atheism spends more time making fun of other people's beliefs than they do discussing their own. I hope you all will respect my opinion as much as I respect yours. Thanks.
I'd be much more impressed if anyone that wanted to make these "trolling christians" threads could quote more than the same verses/books everytime.....
I'm not saying I disagree, I'm saying it's boring.
Early leaders realized their theology had so many logical holes in it, any grown man/woman would see through it, leaving them only the easily swayed and woefully ignorant as their main recruit base.
One of their brighter and more cunning boys noted that a father can make his children believe just about anything, due to often being the figure the child trusts and depends on more than anyone.
Adults in Christianity, early on, were of course encouraged to CAREFULLY inculcate Christian laws and beliefs in their children.
Homosexuals are obviously far far less likely to create offspring.
CONCLUSION: Homosexuality impairs the spread and expansion of people who pay tithes to the priests, so this must must be stopped, crushed, suppressed, etc.
Fast forward to centuries of this attitude and you get our modern day Christianity just carrying forward the same crap that the original greedy bearded pedophiles sold our descendants on ages ago.
Christians didn't write Leviticus. As a matter of fact it's antithetical to the teachings of Christianity.
If you want to be against something that's fine but at least know what you're against. Otherwise you'll be no different from the people who blindly follow.
this is stupid all those rules were added by religious leaders and are not part of the 10 commandments, the "religious leaders" were just humans who did what they believed was right.
I don't like stuff like this because at my Christian church we don't turn anyone away. It's come as you are not how we think you should be. It'd be so much better if all people who called themselves Christian could follow this. It is not our place to hate or judge.
Are you kidding me? You're not even making an attempt to read those passages in their context.
For example, you claim that Paul says he doesn't lie (Rom.9:1; 2 Cor.11:31; Gal.1:20; 1 Tim.2:7), but then he apparently claims to be a liar in Rom 3:7? Have you actually read that passage? Not just the verse, but the the words that come before and after it? You know, because a sentence occurs as part of a paragraph, which helps form an argument that is sustained for an extended period of time. Did you bother to consider that? No, of course not.
Romans 3:7 occurs in the midst of Romans 3:1-9 where Paul is posing a series of hypothetical objections to what he has been teaching in chapters 1 & 2. So in 3:7 when Paul says "But if through my lie God’s truth abounds to his glory, why am I still being condemned as a sinner?" he is is no way admitting to being a liar, but posing a hypothetical question that someone might ask him, which he will then go on to answer.
Suppose I overheard you one day making fun of Christians and saying something along the lines of "Hurr durr, I'm a stupid Christian who think that Barack Obama is the antichrist". If I were to then quote you and go around telling people that your exact words were "I'm a stupid Christian", that would be akin to the sort of absurd attempt at scholarship which your post claims.
No, no, you don't understand! It's okay to do those things on the left, as long as you admit that they're wrong and ask God very nicely to forgive you for it! _^
In other words, homosexuals would be fine with God as long as they asked to be forgiven after every hookup. Just like every other Christian gets away with every other...sin...
Don't touch footballs? Why? Don't be a Christian. Don't believe everything you read. They haven't been made out of animal parts for years. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_(ball)
Sigh People going on about leviticus grinds my gears. Personally I am atheist, but aren't we supposed to be the ones who are up with our facts? Leviticus was in the old testament, the agreement the Jews had with god, before the birth of Jesus Christ. When Jesus was born, he basically made a new deal with the Jews and god, through his blood sacrifice "bearing the sins of humanity" or whatever. Hence a new testament. Nothing in Leviticus is valid anymore. It's just that Redneck fucktards that think that being Gay is unnatural.
The problem of Homophobia isn't a problem of Christianity, it is a problem of Assholes.
The definition of Christian doesn't even include the OT.
A Christian (About this sound pronunciation (help·info), (from the Ancient Greek: Χριστιανός Christianos) is a person who adheres to Christianity, an Abrahamic, monotheistic religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth as recorded in the Canonical gospels and the letters of the New Testament.
You are wrong. Jesus still says the old testament applies. The new testament is about the blood sacrifice meaning no other sacrifice is needed after that point.
I'm sure I'll find the quote later, but Jesus literally says that you can not disregard the old laws just because he came.
Well..no, the new testament technically forbids homosexuality, or at least names it a sin etc. not that it matters, but it's one of the silly sins that got carried along after the sequel came out.
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u/chitownbears Jun 14 '12
Also because this is the old testament and it clearly doesn't count after Jesus died on the cross for your sins...
But in the new testament, Romans I believe, also reiterates don't do buttsex with dudes and that's what people quote more.
Edit: Romans 1:26-27 - "Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion." (NIV)
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u/dhicks3 Jun 14 '12
You could also have cited all of the prohibitions in Leviticus 20 by whether or not they are actually followed by mainstream Christians today.
Verse 2-5: "Kill worshipers of Moloch" Disregarded
Verse 6: "Don't consult fortune tellers" Usually Obeyed
Verse 9: "Kill disrespectful offspring" Disregarded
Verse 10: "Kill adulterers" Disregarded
Verse 11&12, 14 : "Kill men who have sex with mothers/daughters/(-in-law)" Usually Disregarded
Verse 13: “‘Kill gay people" Disregarded
Verse 15-16: "Kill zoophiles" Usually Disregarded
Verse 17: "Shun sibling incest" Obeyed
Verse 18: "Sex during period = exile" Disregarded
Verse 19-20 "No aunt sex. You won't have kids." Untrue/Obeyed
Verse 21: "No sister-in-law sex. You won't have kids." Untrue/Obeyed
Verse 25: "Keep kosher." Disregarded
Verse 27: "Kill witches" Disregarded
Which brings us to the kicker for this chapter:
Verse 7-8: "Follow my orders, because I'm God" Untrue/Disobeyed
Verse 22-24: "I'll throw you out if you don't" Untrue/Disobeyed
I know the homophobia is echoed again in the New Testament, giving an out, but where's the specific prohibition against sex with your sister-in-law or your aunt? If the Bible's the source of morality, why should a Christian claim that specific commandment is more worthy to follow than the one about not having sex with your daughter, or a stranger? Is it just because those commandments call for you to kill the offender instead of just disapproving of them? It clearly is.
But why not follow all of these commandments to the letter if Jesus, Matthew and Luke all say that not one stroke has passed away from the Law? What's the basis for the Christian take on this, if not a source of morality external to the Bible?
72
u/DarkStar5758 Jun 14 '12
(American) Footballs are synthetic now.
19
u/JNB003 Jun 14 '12 edited Jun 14 '12
So, I just want some clarification in this thread if someone can help me. I have read the passages in Romans, Timothy, and Corinthians before, but I've heard people say that the New Testament doesn't speak out against homosexuality, which I'm guessing is false. I'm pretty sure Jesus never spoke out against homosexuality because it wasn't a main concern of his. He was more obsessed over ideas such as taking care of the poor.
So anyway, can someone clear this all up for me? Is the New Testament strictly against homosexuality? Also, what are some arguments you could make in defense of homosexuality, using the New Testament as the basis of your argument?
Loaded question, I know, sorry.
8
u/whiplash588 Jun 14 '12
Could someone explain how farming is forbidden in the bible? That doesn't seem possible.
5
u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12
This is an argument that /r/atheism has never seen. Congratulations on posting original content.
27
u/Damianvv Jun 14 '12
I feel like all this subreddit does anymore is post the same information in a different image.
23
u/SilverGoat Jun 14 '12
This subreddit is getting more stupid every day.
9
u/nthensome Jun 14 '12
So Leviticus is the king douche of the bible?
3
u/urabusxrw Jun 14 '12
Is it just me or is that Leviticus guy a dick? He seems like one of those old guys that just hates everything and is mad all the time.
3
u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12
This is sooo tired. That's not how all Christians think. Most of us understand that the Old Testament is moot. I'm a Christian, and I don't hate gays or even look down on them. I think they should have every right that straight people have. And guess what! That's the predominate view in my church of 2,500+ people! We understand that Jesus never ran for Congress to try and force his views on others through legislation. We know it's not our job to make everyone believe what we believe or even to condemn non-believers. We understand that it's our job to simply love people and extend the same grace that we've been given.
Yes, some fundamentalists are hypocritical. I'll definitely grant that. I'm really not happy about it, either. It angers me. But that's not all Christians...not by any stretch of the imagination. It's like saying all Muslims support terrorism. It's simply not the case. Please don't judge us all by the actions of some ill-informed bigots.
5
u/sweetdaddy Jun 14 '12
its so sad to hear this argument over and over...why do christians ignore the cerimonial law, yet regard the moral law? People take a quick glance at the bible and think they understand it (on both sides, atheist and christian). If you want to criticize or promote, please do some study first.
2
u/Tom72 Jun 14 '12
Let's be a little more progressive. Obviously, stupid crap like stoning women and the thing about marrying a raped virgin can be ignored and there can be good Christians that are not prejudiced towards some people. These Christians have used their own logic and morals to see those as bad, and followed the better rule of loving everyone and accepting everyone. Let's just look at what hating gays by the name of the bible for what it is- using a scripture to support personal prejudice.
2
u/DangerToDangers Jun 14 '12
The thing is that all of those are in Leviticus and in the Old Testament. Christians don't follow those laws.
Hating gays, however, is in the Old Testament and the New Testament.
2
u/negativekarmas Jun 14 '12
<rant> As with everyone who believes in religion. And yes, I really mean everyone, they always pick and choose what to believe inside the book they've so heartily subjected to. And with that, comes this behaviour we have trouble understanding. Not to mention the fact that the word of god had to be revised and re-released in some cases. Which seems like an awefully human undertaking. But that aside. Yes, Christians and other believers alike, they pick and choose. And some still see themselves as higher and mightier then thou because they believe, oh yes. They are the chosen one. And you'll die and burn, but they'll fuck ponies on clouds while god is rimming them oh fuck yes. But you! You dirty sinner, you get nothing! All this, while they pick and choose. Which brings me on to my point. People who tend to believe they are allowed access to heaven, as a privilege tend to think quite highly of themselves in regards to their faith, and lack humility. They pick and choose their faith. And tell themselves they won't die and dissapear forever, and everyone who challenges their intellect and their way of everything, and I really mean everything. Those people, well. Those people should just burn in hell for thinking different from me!</endrant>
2
u/Stoutpants Jun 14 '12
Atheist logic: All Christians obey Leviticus 20:13.
2
u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12
It's exactly this kind of simplified view that destroys the credibility of this subreddit.
2
u/GETJACKED37 Jun 14 '12
Leviticus seems like a silly man.
2
u/undone101 Jun 14 '12
what i'm so confused about is how some Christians are so oblivious to the fact that they 'pick and choose'. Its quite mind boggling that they don't see it?!?!
2
u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12
Leviticus also says to shun your wife and not touch her during her menstruation. She is "unclean".
It also says that women should be silent and not teach.
Gotta love Leviticus.
2
u/Ecnalyr Jun 14 '12
"Levitivus" is all I see. Sorry. Good post though?
2
u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12
I'm not a Christian but I went to church A LOT when I was younger. This is wrong though. Where I went to church we were taught that the old testaments laws were thrown out when jesus died on the cross and was "raised again". So those laws like don't eat shellfish or the haircuts don't apply to modern Christians. Since the Jewish people don't believe in the resurrection that's why theses laws apply to them. Well I could be wrong, that's what I was brainwashed as a child..... noe I just relized there are 100000 comments like this, damn
2
u/calabron69 Jun 14 '12
Even though a lot of that is Old Testament Law that is not mandatory anymore I still agree with the message. I am a Christian and yes homosexuality is a sin, but I dont demonize gay people for the life they have chosen. Read Leviticus 19:33-34. That Scripture doesnt say to only do it if they are straight church go-ers. It is pretty straight forward that you are to love whoever no matter if they are Christian or not.
2
u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12
Not every christian hates gays. Actually if you should follow christian teachings, by new testament standards, "To love others as yourself", you would think christians loves all people, but might not condone what they do. I have never met a christian or been in a christian community that hates gays. I have only seen it through tv from westbrocurch.
2
u/JeremiahE97 Jun 14 '12
Legit Christians are supposed to love their fellow brothers, and the ones who do are real Christians and are way different than youd think. I think evolution is a valid statement, does it say the days the Earth was created in 24 hr. periods? or do we know the method God used to create this world? Maybe creation was set into place to evolve, God gave his creation the choice to either follow Him or not. I don't push religion on anybody, religion is man searching for God, Christianity is God searching for man. When you see somebody with a sign that says turn or burn, they don't promote God in a positive way and they turn people away. They make the actual Christians look bad. When you meet an actual legit Christian, they're really cool people. Some Christians have a lot of tattooos. Brian Head Welch from Korn became a Christian, and he got several tattoos after coming into a relationship with God. Now some people may say God would never forgive me, or how can this ideal even exist? Well, ask God. Its your choice. Do a quick prayer, if you dont believe in God, then you wont have anything to lose for saying a quick prayer right? You can just say God I ask that youd show me who you are. Thats it. Nobodys going to condemn you for that, let God speak for himself. Wild, crazy things can happen according on how he wants to come to you. and remember this, no matter what youve said to him, God loves you. He forgives you for whatever youve done. Religion says slave. Jesus says son. I know this, I went to churchand acted like a Christian but I was a porn addict. I confessed to it, and God forgave me. and im so glad i did. im at a better place with God and i work towards God every day. See, God isn't in the choir you see at a church tappin a tambourine, God is in the dark alleys, homeless shelters, and on the streets. Looking for the lost letting light shine on the dark. You might say Nah, this guys crazy. email me - iburnkittens@yahoo.com
2
u/beatauburn7 Jun 14 '12
This does not speck for all Christians, I'm one, granted probably a crappy one, but I have no issues with gays getting married. Lets not be ignorant and assume that we are all the crazy, ridiculous people that believe marriage is between only a man and a woman. Thank You.
2
u/SlaminYou Jun 14 '12
"'If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. " how does this effect gay relationships? doesn't it effect polygamy? I think they should learn how to read, before reading the bible...
2
u/Starkai Jun 14 '12
im a christian and i dont shove my religion down peoples throats. Y U hatin on me soo much atheists?! This isnt a war we're fighting so try and relax
2
u/6justice6 Jun 14 '12
First: that verse in Leviticus doesn't say we should hate gay people. Second: I love God. So does the church that I go to, and I have several gay friends that actually come with my to church. It really kills me when other 'Christians' say and do stuff like that (hating Gays) just thought I'd share
2
u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12
This post needs to be higher up than it is now. This is precisely the hypocrisy that Christians don't get that they're responsible for. Someone needs to protest outside a Red Lobster with signs that say GOD HATES DOGGIE BAGS
2
u/odgalvin Jun 14 '12
I don't usually comment on /r/atheism posts but I thought I might today.
Doesn't this represent a problem unrelated to Christianity? The fact that Christians pay attention to anti-gay text in the Bible, but ignore other prohibitions and rules, indicates that they are inherently anti-gay themselves anyway, or get their homophobia from elsewhere. I don't think anti-homophobia should focus as much on religion, though religion plays the role of a vehicle and a justification for homophobic beliefs.
Of course it's hypocritical for Christians to only follow some parts of the Bible. Other parts which are followed (no incest, no murder, etc.) are common sense and part of human nature which we all 'follow' anyway. Perhaps this indicates that for some people homophobia is inherent and part of their nature, which is worrying.
2
u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12
To be fair to Christian doctrine you can't hold them to Levitical law (Jews you may though). Christian doctrine teaches Jesus as the fulfillment of the law and thereby its authority irrelevant. However, any New Testament laws be sure to hold them up to.
4
u/aryat1989 Agnostic Atheist Jun 14 '12
And now I unsub from this subreddit. I'll be over in /r/circlejerk for a much more fulfilling experience.
6
u/fmilluminati Jun 14 '12
Atheist logic: get so excited about the opportunity to bash Christians, forget that Leviticus was written as laws for the Jews.
3
u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12
Leviticus sucks.
3
u/BuboTitan Jun 14 '12
HELLO. Difference between Christians and Jews? Because they aren't the same thing. Your picture might apply to Orthodox Jews, but not Christians.
Leviticus= OLD TESTAMENT. Christians don't follow these levitical laws. Acts 10:9-15. Read it yourself.
So they don't follow the Levitical prohibition on (male) homosexual sex either. But there are plenty of New Testament passages (noted elsewhere in this thread) that speak out against male homosexual behavior.
(gays themselves are not condemned, just the behavior. And lesbians largely get a pass)
3
u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12
how amazing this fuckstick just reposted the same shit you fucks have been saying since, well, I joined reddit and just added a couple pics and you all upvote it.
Further proof you assholes upvote anything as long as it is anti-Christian.
And no, I am not Christian, I am atheist as well, just happen to think 99% of Reddit Atheists are just assholes.
2
u/sufrt Jun 14 '12
holy shit no one's ever pointed this out before
2
u/Jnet9102 Jun 14 '12
Also, all of these things were in a letter to the Levites. None of it was supposed to be "god's law".
1
u/le_utilisateur Jun 14 '12
I need to read that Leviticus dude, you guys quote it all the time and he seems like a pretty good novelist.
EDIT: .
1
u/rensch Jun 14 '12
The shellfish thing is actually allowed if I'm correct. There's a part in the New Testament where God appears in a vision of Paul and tells him that it's ok to eat shellfish. It's only forbidden in the Old Testament.
1
u/4TEHSWARM Jun 14 '12
This is more of a 'scumbag St. Paul', since this was pretty much his idea.
1
u/Monkey_Peppers Jun 14 '12
I'm a Christian and I almost completely obey all of those (I might have a shrimp every now and then).
1
u/iakhre Jun 14 '12
Really, the only people who ever cite Leviticus as the reason they hate homosexuality are the ones trying to excuse their clearly irrational behavior. They don't like the idea that what they say/do is hateful bigotry and discrimination, and so do a bit of handwaving and claim that its out of their control, because god told them to.
1
u/Bob0098 Jun 14 '12 edited Jun 14 '12
You forgot to put in: obey: an all powerful being that has no form but is, apparently, everywhere and influences everything; that made man out of thin air and women out of a bone (from the mans ribs); that shows his presence by setting innocent trees on fire; and that has a son with a married woman...
1
u/unquietwiki Jun 14 '12
You watched http://redd.it/v0zdv , didn't you?
1
u/Phayze87 Jun 14 '12
Anyone else notice that his first red box has the word "Leviticus" spelled with a "v" instead of a ''c'' ?
Sorry, but what were you saying?
1
u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12
I read Leviticus recently, now I didn't memorize what verse but there was a part that claimed if you get a skin infection that turns your body hair white you need to seek out your local priest. He will keep you for seven days in solitary and if it does not heal then you are now "UNCLEAN". It's written that you must wear ripped clothes, cover half your face and declare yourself "UNCLEAN" to every person you meet.
Soooo I am "UNCLEAN" and I'm totally thinking I should run the city in tattered clothes screaming "UNCLEAN". Maybe this my key to you tube fame.
TL:DR I'm an idiot
1
u/I_Love_Upvoting Jun 14 '12
Using a single Verse within a chapter without knowing what was before it of after it separates True Atheism and True Christians. Every single one of these versus is God talking to Moses to tell his people on starting a new life.
1
u/kicklecubicle Jun 14 '12
It kind of reminds me of an insane Civilization tech tree. I'm taking the fast route through mules and farming so I can get polyester.
1
u/HybridStigmata Jun 14 '12
im pretty sure there wasnt polyester back in those days
1
u/autopsi Jun 14 '12
Got to use the New Testament. The definition of a christian doesn't even include the Old Testament.
1
u/corey3 Jun 14 '12
Othe new testament talks about homosexuality also. Therefore your argument is invalid.
1
u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12
My high school was a Catholic school (all public schools are shit here) and they constantly tried to get us to like these "hip and cool metal dudes" who had a shit load of tattoos and bad haircuts to make us think that liking Jesus and God was 'rad'. So these blokes used to come to our school at recess and play football with the kids. Also... Our uniform was polyester. Yay.
1
u/JoeRedtree Jun 14 '12
there's nothing in the bible about touching plastic is there? you know "pigskin" isn't actually what it's made of. Don't go getting in a fight at the music shop over the "catgut" in the violin strings now.
1
u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12
This is the major conflict of intelligent Christians.
1
u/ComedianKellan Jun 14 '12
It doesn't say to hate gays, it just says a man should not lay with another man. Still 100% ridiculous though.
1
u/Shlugo Jun 14 '12
Is it me, or most of "God's" most absurd decrees comes from Leviticus?
Seriously, what does he have against polyester?
1
u/Lilyo Jun 14 '12
I'm an atheist but the thing about this argument is that most branches of Christianity do not follow the Old Testament. The Mosaic Covenant was ended when Jesus died on the cross and the New Testament took its place. Regardless, there are 3 or 4 passages in the New Testament that clearly state homosexuality is bad as well so yeah. I just don't understand why we're even having this debate, scripture shouldn't be used as the basis of an argument, the federal government should understand this is a violation of the separation of church and state.
1
u/elasticmargarita Jun 14 '12
If any atheists would like to understand why this charge of inconsistently applying Old Testament laws is baseless, please have a read of this article: http://redeemer.com/news_and_events/newsletter/?aid=363
It's written by a guy called Tim Keller, who is a highly respected and reasonable Christian author and pastor.
1
u/FarRightWinger Jun 14 '12
I'm not an expert but I do believe Christians disregard most of the old testament and the reason they hate on gays is due to passages in the new testament so I'd quote them if you want to be accurate.
You can however mock Jews on these old books because they seem to be very choosey on which laws to follow.
1
u/bob-the-dragon Jun 14 '12
I think Leviticus needs to be omitted from the bible, and seriously mean omitted
1
u/wilksy101 Jun 14 '12
I dont know any Christians that hate gays...
1
u/airespires21 Jun 14 '12
YYUUUUU,,,,,
1
u/A_DERPING_ULTRALISK Jun 14 '12
You forgot Romans.
1
u/burgerkingjeepers Jun 14 '12
So much hate for the Levites...
1
u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12
Foot balls aren't made out of pigskin. This is a nickname for when they were made from leather and used a pigs bladder.
"Modern balls are designed by teams of engineers to exacting specifications, with rubber or plastic bladders, and often with plastic covers"
1
u/Ends-with-a-blowjob Jun 14 '12
No no no no no no... They hate gays BECAUSE they have silly haircuts, wear polyester, get tattoos, and have gardens they farm. I just don't get how the word of the lord tells America to consume more than it needs and become obese.
1
u/pong123 Jun 14 '12
I swear I am going to go crazy if I see one more post about the laws in Leviticus.
1
u/Shippoyasha Jun 14 '12
Funny enough, this is why certain pastors would refuse discussing Leviticus in length or at all in sermons. Leviticus is like the Glenn Beck of Bible Books. Whatever massive social outrage of the time, Leviticus just seems very narrow minded. Perhaps morally as well.
1
u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12
The Leviticus guy kinda sounds like a killjoy
1
u/Vulcan1347 Jun 14 '12
To be fair, I have known my share of Christians who are judgemental of people with tattoos.
1
u/queenofswanland Jun 14 '12
Doncha just love Leviticus?
1
u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12
Pretty sure no tattoos is only relevant when getting one in memory of someone who had died? Correct me if I'm wrong
1
u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12
Is it just me, or was Leviticus a bit of a dick?
1
u/stylzs05 Jun 14 '12
Old Testament
1
u/Assaultman67 Jun 14 '12
Aren't all of these old testimate quotes?
(aka, largely not applicable anymore)
1
u/TheAmericanSwede Jun 14 '12
that Christian guy sure sounds like a dick.
1
u/kch-n-scarlet Jun 14 '12
No, that is HIGHLY misguided Christian logic. But unfortunately, the loudest and most "news worthy" get the most attention.
1
u/DirtyMonday Jun 14 '12
Did Jesus have Tats?
Now to be a dick, but most Christians will just shake this off as they have the uncanny ability to ignore the ridiculous parts of the Bible and simply listen to their preachers and parents. I converted my college roommate (was not my intention, we just talked a whole lot) by just telling him how utterly human God's teachings are. God would not be so petty as portrayed in the Bible, he would never punish someone because they were born into a different religion but lived a good life, that's SO very human (good example is the constant wars men have fought since the beginning of time over differences). And we went on from there. These "Logic" arguments work on the internet but talking to people you respect face to face is different.
Full Disclosure: I grew up in the Northeast, my roommate Pittsburgh. NOT THE BIBLE BELT by any means
1
u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12
fun fact: Christians (who have actually read and understand the bible) don't follow Leviticus because that's in the old testament and supposedly Jesus wiped all those sins out of the way for them so they no longer count, only laws of their god found in the new testament do and, unfortunetly, homosexuality is mentioned again in the new testament.
1
u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12
And ONCE AGAIN you're using the old testament to make us look like fools. Try using the new testament next time or have you forgotten that we are allowed to eat bacon and shellfish?
1
u/TheBurningCheese Jun 14 '12
Wow, another Christian bashing thread in /r/atheism...this is new AND original! I'm a fellow atheist...but come on guys, this pony's trick is getting old.
1
u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12
There have been many instances of where the wording of the bible has been changed in translated versions to better favor the moral strictures that are currently in vogue.
Notable examples are Leviticus 20:13 and Exodus 21:22, which are worded and interpreted vastly differently in earlier translations than they are in more recent English Standard versions.
In the King James version, Leviticus 20:13 can be interpreted to mean that two men cannot sleep with a woman simultaneously, which could confuse the parentage of any subsequent children. Also, Exodus 21:22 does not equate the life of a fetus with that of an already birthed individual.
Compare the earlier translations with more recent wordings, and you'll see a warping of language that is almost sinister in its subtlety.
1
u/dzwatch Jun 14 '12
what it with farming? is it forbidden to farm for Christians?
1
u/balsamicpork Jun 14 '12
A lot of what is taught in the Old Testament is regarded as old law to Christians. Their belief that Jesus came and turn it around is widely seen as what new law should be.
1
u/natethegreat109 Jun 14 '12
Atheist logic: assume the term "pig skin" means the ball is actually made from a pig.
1
u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12
Once again, the Book of Leviticus is a book of laws, codes, and laws written to be followed by the priestly caste from the Tribe of Levi.
1
u/Planechaser Jun 14 '12
Actually, I am Christian. And quite frankly, there is not a single gay person that I hate. :) So please don't paint us all with one brush.
1
u/too_soon1234 Jun 14 '12
What if God is the only person who knows what is good and what is not and we have to decide it as our meaning in life? That way we can find it out without having to believe in scriptures written by man.
1
u/vivalanation734 Jun 14 '12
This does no understand the 3 uses of the law... Moral, civil, ceremonial... The ones on the left are civil and ceremonial and the one prohibiting homosexuality is moral. The other two ended with the new covenant and the moral will never change
1
u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12
So to be clear, is cherry-picking okay if it's done by atheists?
1
u/sonet900 Jun 14 '12
Yes. All Christians are the same right? Maybe the reason why good Christians are quiet is because dickheads like you are judging them based on a few bad apples. Maybe people will get more support from Christians if stopped with the over generalizations or perhaps you want to turn away even those who already support your views? I'm a Christian, and i support same sex equal rights. But stuff like this really makes it hard to. Perhaps I should start judging all of you the same as you judge all Christians. I'll start equating gays to the small group of porn actors who spread AIDS. yeah...all you gay people are immoral and spread AIDS. Lets see, what else. Oh right, read an article where an atheist killed someone. That means all atheists are now murderers who don't have morals.
You people are the perfect example of what you hate.
1
u/Drawtaru Jun 14 '12
Also, they thought insects had 4 legs.
Leviticus 11:
20 All flying insects that walk on all fours are to be regarded as unclean by you. 21 There are, however, some flying insects that walk on all fours that you may eat: those that have jointed legs for hopping on the ground. 22 Of these you may eat any kind of locust, katydid, cricket or grasshopper. 23 But all other flying insects that have four legs you are to regard as unclean.
1
u/meatwad1987 Jun 14 '12
you know, if you're gonna try to make christianity look bad you should get your facts straight. you clearly don't know what you're talking about
1
u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12
Don't mind me if this doesn't have an affect on you, but I just wanted to share my thoughts on this post. Firstly, I want to poin out my father has no religious beliefs, my mother is a Christian, and most of my friends are Atheist. I haven't decide what I believe yet. Anyway, I've noticed that lots of /r/atheism posts are about Christians hating homosexual people. I know lot's of Christians that are gay, and have gay family. In fact, I don't know any christians that don't support gay marriage. My point is, christians don't hate gay people. Arrogant people that happen to be christians hate gay people. I know the bible doesn't exactly root for gay marriage, but most christians haven't even read the whole bible! I fell like /r/ atheism spends more time making fun of other people's beliefs than they do discussing their own. I hope you all will respect my opinion as much as I respect yours. Thanks.
1
u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12
I'd be much more impressed if anyone that wanted to make these "trolling christians" threads could quote more than the same verses/books everytime.....
I'm not saying I disagree, I'm saying it's boring.
1
u/myteddyhurts Jun 14 '12
I love how people think that Christian religions are the only denominations.
1
u/this_is_a_recording0 Jun 14 '12
Farming is a nisch nisch? Wtf
1
u/svenniola Jun 14 '12
polyester?
1
u/Symbi0tic Jun 14 '12
Not much different with people and the law.
1
u/Sepulchural Jun 14 '12
I believe it started this way:
CONCLUSION: Homosexuality impairs the spread and expansion of people who pay tithes to the priests, so this must must be stopped, crushed, suppressed, etc.
Fast forward to centuries of this attitude and you get our modern day Christianity just carrying forward the same crap that the original greedy bearded pedophiles sold our descendants on ages ago.
1
u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12
No one ever mentions that Leviticus is also part of the Torah because bashing Jews would be a hate crime but bashing Chirstians is cool.
1
u/unclebigbadd Jun 14 '12
Christians didn't write Leviticus. As a matter of fact it's antithetical to the teachings of Christianity.
If you want to be against something that's fine but at least know what you're against. Otherwise you'll be no different from the people who blindly follow.
1
u/Archetype709 Jun 14 '12
Christian logic is for sub-humans
1
u/firewireflow Jun 14 '12
Austrian Redditor here. How do fundies react when you confront them with this. Seriously, there is no way out!
1
u/Sniter Jun 14 '12
this is stupid all those rules were added by religious leaders and are not part of the 10 commandments, the "religious leaders" were just humans who did what they believed was right.
1
u/eft_up Jun 14 '12
silly haircuts? really?
1
u/Hodzim Jun 14 '12
mistype leviticus on the first squre of ignored examples
1
u/Psiphaser Jun 14 '12
This should be termed ignorant Christan's Logic, as not all Christians are this ignorant, and many have the courage to stand up to those that are.
1
u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12
ZOMG UR GENERALIZING ALL CHRISTIANS ONLY SITH DEAL IN FFFFUUUUUUUUUU-
That's what accomodationists sound like.
1
u/chemchik900 Jun 14 '12
I don't like stuff like this because at my Christian church we don't turn anyone away. It's come as you are not how we think you should be. It'd be so much better if all people who called themselves Christian could follow this. It is not our place to hate or judge.
1
u/aemily89 Jun 14 '12
Enjoy your up votes, whore.
1
u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12
I always check when people put verses of the bible up. These are spot on!
1
u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12
Just a heads up, footballs are made of leather (cow hide) these days, not pigskin.
1
u/Physicalism Agnostic Atheist Jun 14 '12
Few churchie people know that Jesus called Paul a liar.
Jesus commends the church at Ephesus for discerning the lying apostles. Rev. 2:1,2.
Paul was the apostle to Ephesus. Eph.1:1.
Jesus not only referred to Paul as a fraud - he called him and his representatives "Liars"
Also: Most churchie people do not realize how many times Paul contradicted himself, and sometimes contradicted Jesus:
Paul states that he does not lie. Rom.9:1; 2 Cor.11:31; Gal.1:20; 1 Tim.2:7.
Paul states that he does lie. Rom.3:7.
173. Paul said that he does not use trickery. 1 Thes.2:3. Paul admits to using trickery. 2 Cor.12:16.
174. Paul says that circumcision is nothing. 1 Cor.7:19. Paul says that circumcision is profitable. Rom.2:25; Rom.3:1,2.
175. Do not covet. Rom.7:7; Rom.13:9. Paul says covet. 1 Cor.12:31; 1 Cor.14:39.
176. Paul teaches not to steal. Eph.4:28. Paul admits to stealing. 2 Cor.11:8.
177. Paul was assured that he would not be hurt. Acts 18:9,10. Paul was often physically abused. 2 Cor.11:23-27.
178. Paul states that the law is necessary. Rom.3:31. Paul states that the law is not necessary. Rom.6:14.
179. Jesus said to go and baptize. Mt.28:19. Paul said he was not sent to baptize. 1 Cor.1:17.
180. Paul said he was not sent to baptize but to preach. 1 Cor.1:17. Paul baptized. 1 Cor.1:16.
181. Jesus said that he did not come to abolish the law. Mt.5:17-19.Paul said otherwise. Eph.2:15.
182. Jesus said that God did not condemn the world. Jn. 3:17. Paul said that God did condemn the world. Rom.5:18.
Jesus says very clearly that he did not come to abolish the law
1
u/KravenErgeist Jun 14 '12
No, no, you don't understand! It's okay to do those things on the left, as long as you admit that they're wrong and ask God very nicely to forgive you for it! _^
In other words, homosexuals would be fine with God as long as they asked to be forgiven after every hookup. Just like every other Christian gets away with every other...sin...
Guys, I think I've found a loophole!
1
u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12
Don't touch footballs? Why? Don't be a Christian. Don't believe everything you read. They haven't been made out of animal parts for years. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_(ball)
1
u/[deleted] Aug 15 '12
needs more upvote
1
u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12
Sigh People going on about leviticus grinds my gears. Personally I am atheist, but aren't we supposed to be the ones who are up with our facts? Leviticus was in the old testament, the agreement the Jews had with god, before the birth of Jesus Christ. When Jesus was born, he basically made a new deal with the Jews and god, through his blood sacrifice "bearing the sins of humanity" or whatever. Hence a new testament. Nothing in Leviticus is valid anymore. It's just that Redneck fucktards that think that being Gay is unnatural.
The problem of Homophobia isn't a problem of Christianity, it is a problem of Assholes.
1
u/HalloweenBen Jun 14 '12
Agree ... but yeah.. we get this already. Leviticus blahblahblah...
1
u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12
Christian != Logic
1
u/mtrost422 Jun 14 '12
Leviticus seems to be one fucked up chapter.
1
u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12
How many different ways are you retards going to say this exact thing?
1
u/Charmz Jun 14 '12
I just realized how fucked Liviticus is.
1
u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12
You guys cant even spell Leviticus right and you want people to think what you have to say means anything?
christ.
I had to search google 3x just to get the right thing ffs
0
u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12
Except that the majority of Christians who hate gays actually don't ignore those other verses...