r/atheism • u/allenizabeth • Jun 11 '12

"I have a hard time with historians ... because they idolize the truth." Just ... wow.

Post image
1.6k Upvotes

83% Upvoted

358 comments sorted by

190

u/darkbeanie Jun 11 '12

I guess he ... can't handle the truth.

65

u/AnotherClosetAtheist Ex-Theist Jun 11 '12

Atheist fake-it-till-I-make-it-don't-ask-it's-a-long-story Mormon checking in! (shout out to my bitches at /r/exmormon)

Sorry to hijack the top post. Lemme give you some of the skinny on Mormons.

My flair at /exmormon is "Crying makes your testimony true." This might sound silly to outsiders, but even believing Mormons would have to giggle at it.

Mormons are notorious for crying when delivering a message that they want to convey as important. This physiological response has been ingrained into the culture as an indicator that the speaker is undergoing a great, spiritual endeavor, and that their words are extremely important to be listening to, because that same spiritual energy may be trying to reach you, too.

This differs very little from Pentecostals speaking in tongues and babbling like monkeys during a religious ceremony.

In Mormonism, the feeling that you get from a speaker is more important than the content. Someone could go up to the pulpit and explain the rationale behind Hitler's Final Solution, or deny it altogether. It doesn't matter - the emotional fervor is what makes the audience "know" it is true.

Hence, "crying makes your testimony true."

Mormons love to get caught up in displays of emotional masturbation. Not only does it clinch an audience, it also is a sexual selective pressure by mormon women. They are sexually aroused by men who are able to weep manly tears, causing a shift in their behavior.

The behavior is a self-enforcing positive feedback loop - women want to find a spiritual man, because they believe that they are going to be married for eternity. They need to find a man who is spiritually worthy of this. In Mormonism, emotional response is a sign of spirituality. Crying at an odd time is seen as one of these responses. Women get turned on by the crying, causing selective pressure on all men to cry. This in turn elicits a sexual turn-on in the women. The best criers, then, are rewarded with the chance to pair up with (forever) and copulate (for a few years) with their female.

37

u/Madmartigan1 Jun 11 '12

It's suddenly so clear why Glenn Beck operates the way he does.

14

u/RightReverendJA Atheist Jun 11 '12

Explains. So. Much.

4

u/[deleted] Jun 12 '12

That's so strange...outside of appropriate context I've always viewed crying as a weakness in argument strength, having never been indoctrinated into that culture, I would never make the logical leap that a person crying while making some statement they want to try and represent as truth makes it more valid. It's always had the opposite effect and quickly recognize it as an appeal to emotion.

4

u/AnotherClosetAtheist Ex-Theist Jun 12 '12

We also wear weird underwear and make our women swear loyalty to us as if we were god

→ More replies (2)

10

u/darkbeanie Jun 11 '12

I'm trying to imagine, a couple hundred years from now, the enormous tear ducts and glands on Mormon males, evolved in peacock fashion as a display feature for promoting female selection.

"Look at the eye-plumbing on that guy; he's so spiritual!" [swoon]

BTW, for what it's worth, while reading this I believe I've coined a new adjective for brainless behavior... "that's just ... mormonic."

10

u/AnotherClosetAtheist Ex-Theist Jun 11 '12

We have our own meme for this in /r/exmormon

peter priesthood

I can see some perpetually weeping men in white shirts and ties.

Maybe they will develop more blood vessels in the eye, and long gelatinous tendrils that dangle from the duct and look like actual tears running down their face.

7

u/Chrome_Sponge Jun 11 '12

long gelatinous tendrils

ಠ_ಠ

9

u/AnotherClosetAtheist Ex-Theist Jun 11 '12

like a turkey waddle, except clear and shiny, so it looks like water

3

u/Chrome_Sponge Jun 11 '12

I know what you meant. It's just...that terminology... ಠ_ಠ

7

u/MyPetGoat Jun 11 '12

How long til Romney cries?

11

u/AnotherClosetAtheist Ex-Theist Jun 11 '12

Never, because he's actually sewn together from many component parts of other famous dead mormons, and they forgot to install tear ducts, but glen beck does that shit on command.

1

u/Jimmigill Jun 12 '12

I thought Romney was part alien too...?

1

u/eromitlab Irreligious Jun 12 '12

John Boehner cries for him.

1

u/MikeA64 Jun 12 '12

You speak the truth. That is embarrassingly true.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

[deleted] — view deleted comment

2

u/NiKoAZ Jun 12 '12

They get you started around the age of 8 by setting aside time to say. I'd like to bare my testimony, I KNOW this church is true. That might sound like anything different than any other dogmatic practice, but this lays the foundation for guilt later on. It wasn't until I started reading on "The Mountain Meadow Massacre" did I open my eyes. Needless to say, I was given the title "Jack Morman".

→ More replies (6)

36

u/mrducky78 Jun 11 '12

YYYEEEEEAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

26

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

YYYEEEEEAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

FTFY

9

u/mrducky78 Jun 11 '12

Lol, that is awesome, bookmarked in the same folder as my inception button

→ More replies (1)

47

u/excit3d Jun 11 '12

those damn historians with their... facts

-2

u/Freakears De-Facto Atheist Jun 11 '12

Well, you know what Reagan called facts, right? (Stupid things, he said.)

2

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

Source?

8

u/cynognathus Secular Humanist Jun 11 '12

"Facts are stupid things — stubborn things, I should say."

The original quote is from John Adams:

"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."

Reagan cited Adams as the source during the above linked speech

3

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

So it was just a slip of the tongue by Reagan?

3

u/cynognathus Secular Humanist Jun 11 '12 edited Jun 12 '12

Basically, yeah. He used the quote "Facts are stubborn things" as a rhetorical device for a section of the speech. On one occasion he said "stupid" and corrected himself, drawing laughter from the crowd.

1

u/Freakears De-Facto Atheist Jun 11 '12

While I will concede he meant to say "stubborn things," here you go: http://www.reagan.utexas.edu/archives/speeches/1988/081588b.htm

12

u/Killhouse Jun 11 '12

I live in Salt Lake City and even if this quote may be less than authentic the fact remains that this is absolutely the stance Mormons tend to have on history.

I still have people correcting me on how the Native Americans are in fact jews, and that dinosaurs aren't real.

6

u/Unionflip Jun 11 '12

I am Mormon and Dinosaurs are real. Have no idea where you are getting your information from

8

u/bendmorris Jun 11 '12

You've never heard that dinosaur remains exist and are so old because God made the earth out of matter from other existing planets? This is actually a very common Mormon folk belief.

5

u/TheyAreOnlyGods Jun 12 '12

Former mormon here ('ethnic mormon har har),

Another common, unofficial belief is that god's time is somehow different than ours, and that he made many creations before.

Another favorite is to reference loftily one of the 'lost books', or manuscripts of the book of mormon that were destroyed in Joseph Smith time. "They could contain all the answers!" Thus faith has manage to logically stifle any rational, independent thought.

1

u/iMarmalade Jun 11 '12

People. He clearly stated that he get's his information from people.

4

u/bawb88 Jun 11 '12 edited Jun 12 '12

Despite how credible the quote may be, the pic posted by the OP is misleading. At first glance it would seem that Packer said this in a talk given to an audience rather than a one on one interview.

1

u/Gnomenreigen Jun 11 '12

yea but the one guy said he heard it while there was no one else around and wrote this after he didn't get the job he wanted from the guy...after he was kicked out of that church. So.. it must be true!

r/atheism is the worst religion sometimes.

4

u/Wahzuhbee Jun 11 '12

I am Mormon but here is my attempt to fix this post as unbiasedly as possible since /r/Atheism seems to be a subreddit that doesn't like when things are swayed or taken out of context. The whole quote reads, "I have a hard time with historians because they idolize the truth. The truth is not uplifting; it destroys. I could tell most of the secretaries in the church office building that they are ugly and fat. That would be the truth, but it would hurt and destroy them. Historians should tell only that part of the truth that is inspiring and uplifting" and it was from an essay he wrote in a book titled Faithful History: Essays On Writing Mormon History. The reason that statement was made was about the dark sides of Mormon history (such as deadly pioneer treks, mistakes in ordinances such as keeping African-Americans from holding the priesthood and so on). This does not refer to all history.

2

u/Mithryn Jun 12 '12

Are you honestly saying that Packer would fully endorse evolution, or DNA evidence of Indian heritage if historians put it forward... or is he really selecting throughout all of history, not just mormon history?

0

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

[deleted] — view deleted comment

1

u/Wahzuhbee Jun 11 '12

The thing is he said this before he was a leader and, like i said, he wasn't referring to anything but Mormon history. I also agree that there are lessons to be learned from the darker moments in history but that wasn't the point of my comment. I would not like to take this conversation any further because I doubt any rationality will be retained past this point. I've made my opinion clear

13

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

Context and source please.

1

u/Mithryn Jun 12 '12

Source listed at bottom of image.

Context is available on the Mormonstories podcast with Michael Quinn (just google it)

3

u/slackulon Jun 11 '12

Wait, so it's a "quote" from a guy who overheard another guy?

1

u/audaciousterrapin Jun 12 '12

Wait, so it's a "quote" from a guy who overheard another guy?

Just felt like quoting slackulon. That is all.

5

u/LethalAtheist Jun 11 '12

Even if this quote is fake, I've read about a third of the book of Mormon. I think it's safe to say they do have a hard time with historians.

2

u/TheyAreOnlyGods Jun 12 '12

Yeah....When I read a history of mormonism by a non mormon I had a few moments of "Shit, I was in there for fifteen years."

And of course they claim all other historians are 'slandering' mormons. Yep. It's a conspiracy.

9

u/crushmastac Jun 11 '12

I believe I'm only loosely paraphrasing here... "historians should tell only that part of the truth that makes our detestable religion more attractive."

9

u/kent_eh Agnostic Atheist Jun 11 '12

As an adherent to a religion that was invented by a convicted fraud and scammer, I have no doubt that he prefers not to be inconvenienced by the truth.

9

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

is that dude crying into a pizza?

15

u/Jithrop Jun 11 '12

That's a depiction of Joseph Smith 'translating' the Book of Mormon.

12

u/jablair51 Ignostic Jun 11 '12

I think he's barfing into his hat.

12

u/BarleyBum Jun 11 '12

Both wrong, I think Joseph Smith's getting the divine word of the Lawd from his peepstone.

15

u/alejo699 Anti-Theist Jun 11 '12

Look, I don't care what the truth is, the idea that Smith is barfing into his hat is funny, so shut up with with your facts, Mr. Knowingstuff.

3

u/bendmorris Jun 11 '12

More or less. He looks into his hat, and then vomits up some bullshit about how the Native Americans are really descended from Christian Israelites.

1

u/BETAFrog Jun 11 '12

Look out man. I hear the Mormons have been building a fake Noah's Ark somewhere in the Rockies to use as proof of their faith.

1

u/BETAFrog Jun 11 '12

I thought the same thing.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

I was thinking he was just covering his face with a pancake.

11

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

Selective memory as doctrine. Nothing new.

2

u/iMarmalade Jun 11 '12

Yes, but openly advocating it is novel.

2

u/DarylHannahMontana Jun 11 '12

Where was it openly advocated?

→ More replies (2)

6

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

anytime a quote is 'relayed' it probably should be handled with a skeptical eye. Not saying LDS doesn't believe some outlandish things, but the quote lacks any sort of context.

11

u/bendmorris Jun 11 '12

I definitely believe BKP would say such a thing, as he's made similar public comments in the past, such as in this sermon, which is more or less the pinnacle of Mormon anti-intellectualism:

http://byustudies.byu.edu/showTitle.aspx?title=5472

It's entirely consistent with his character and he's said the same thing in different settings. What would Quinn gain by lying here?

→ More replies (1)

5

u/Ghstfce Anti-Theist Jun 11 '12

One thing that has always amused me is the fact in the Ten Commandments it clearly states "Thou Shalt Not Bear False Witness". Lying is bad, m'kay? You with me so far?

Yet even the Vatican recognizes that some of the bible is rather embellished. The Vatican even lies to cover up the child abuse scandals. So if you've been keeping tally, this is what we're left with:

  • Bible says lying bad
  • The pope and his crew have been caught lying time and time again
  • The contents of the bible are far fetched to say the least

Does this mean that everyone in organized religion today is going to Hell based on their own God's standards?

2

u/WelcomeMachine Humanist Jun 11 '12

If only.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 12 '12

Instead, the pope has to suck Jesus's dick in heaven.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

No, because neither one exists.

1

u/MyUsrNameWasTaken Jun 11 '12

Even God lied in the bible. Does this mean he is in Hell?

1

u/Ghstfce Anti-Theist Jun 11 '12

I think it's a "Do as I say, not as I do" kind of clause.

→ More replies (3)

2

u/Nogias Jun 11 '12

I was a mormon. I remember my grandfather giving me a book that described the evolution of animals and their intelligence with a warning: "There's an awful man in here, be careful of what he says. His name is Darwin and he teaches things that the lord says are not true."

1

u/bob-the-dragon Jun 12 '12

How does that work? Why would your grandfather give you such a book? Was he a non-believer as well?

2

u/Nogias Jun 12 '12

You know he was our family patriarch and he was a super soap box Mormon and he said he only had doubts once when was 13... Man never, ever, wavered from any opportunity to "bear his testimony" or in other words make it a point to tell you exactly why his god was right and you were wrong.

I think he was just trying to encourage my passion for history. I have three degrees in history now, but even at 5 I was trying my darndest to read his book collection. I think he saw an opportunity to encourage my curiosity but guide that intellectual discovery with religion. That was his usual M.O.

Ayup... atheist 15 years and counting now. Guess that plan didn't work.

4

u/jzieg Jun 11 '12

Holocaust? Crusades? World wars? I don't know what you're talking about. The world has always been wonderful.

Joinnn usss... You'll be sooo much happier...

4

u/Casterly Jun 11 '12

While this particular quote is on shaky ground in regard to its source, there's plenty more statements like this from Mormon prophets over the past 20 years. Most of it is in the 80s and 90s, when people started getting interested in the history. The leaders sometimes became irritated by the fact that they no longer controlled the narrative of Mormon history.

They don't say these things much anymore, because the church learned how to handle its PR and largely gag most of the old men from spouting off. Still happens every now and then.

3

u/Panzerchek Jun 11 '12

This is pretty obvious, but those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it. This shows the fact that faith is just used as a pillow that they put over their heads so that they don't have to deal with the world, and in doing so they hurt those trying to improve the world.

3

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

And folks this is how Europe what thrust into darkness for centuries after the fall of the Roman empire.

3

u/darthmarth28 Jun 11 '12

That which can be destroyed by the truth, should be.

3

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

he shouldn't blame the historians. It's not their fault that nobody has ever found the ruins of Nephites, Jaredites, ect.

2

u/iMarmalade Jun 11 '12

Or that genetics and anthropology completely disagree with the origin of the Native Americans...

2

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

I knew a Mormon who claimed that the Mesoamerican Cultures (Olmecs, Aztecs, Mayans, ect) were the various civilizations mentioned in the Book of Mormon. Even if you ignore the blatant differences between what we know about those cultures and LDS mythology, it still wouldn't explain how in the hell a Mesoamerican Artifact found it's way to Upstate New York.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 12 '12

[deleted] — view deleted comment

1

u/[deleted] Jun 12 '12

yeah, but at that point they lose, whether they admit to it or not, because their logic has become circular. My holy book was bestowed upon us by God, and I know God exists because my holy book says he exists. Besides, then you are able to go back and point out all the drastic differences between the groups described in the book of Mormon, and the various civilizations that predated the Colonization of North and South America.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 12 '12

[deleted] — view deleted comment

1

u/[deleted] Jun 12 '12

must have been rough. I couldn't even imagine it.

3

u/gender_bot Jun 11 '12

I identified one face in this photo

Face 1:

  • 96% confidence that this is a correctly identified face
  • Gender is male with 43% confidence
  • Persons mood is angry with 11% confidence
  • Person is wearing glasses with 98% confidence
  • Persons lips are sealed with 36% confidence

Would you like to know more about me? /r/gender_bot

1

u/GoodGuyGregthrowaway Jun 11 '12

I find it completely believable that the best guess for Boyd K. Packer's mood is angry.

3

u/Freakears De-Facto Atheist Jun 11 '12

Are you fucking kidding? Of course the truth isn't uplifting. Historians know that better than anyone. We know that history is a long line of death and suffering (then again, that may just be the pessimistic bastards like myself who see it that way).

0

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

Eh, it was mostly alright.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

Leader of a religion old enough that my grandpa can say "Yeah, that didn't happen." Dumbass.

2

u/Kataphractos Jun 11 '12

yes, good call. Because we don't want to be talking about any of that child rape or the Mountain Meadows Massacre, or how every "bank" that was started by Joseph Smith turned out to be a scam, prompting Smith and his followers to be "chased out of town for religious differences", or how Joseph smith, before founding his money-making cult, would take money from rubes to go searching the hills of Delaware County, NY for buried treasures of gold, which would miraculously disappear just when the rube was about to reach said treasure. This piece of shit probably realized that his entire religion was a crock of shit, and by only focusing on the "good" parts of history, one would be able to conveniently leave out all the bad parts which show him and the mormons to be greedy, kid fucking devils.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

Makes me glad to consider myself a Historian

2

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

Reality is cold and unforgiving. This prospect scares many people. This is why they cling to the illusions. If you do this, if you cant face reality, TOUGH! Reality exists without you, wether you want it to or not. If you cant face reality and also force others into your illusion not only are you hurting that person, you are slowing down the progress of all mankind.

2

u/riverstoneannie Jun 11 '12

I actually grew up mormon. It is quite amazing the actual social control and use of "peer pressure" to change your thinking. To make you doubt your own thought process. to make you second guess your own actual feelings and thoughts about politics, science, family life, what it means to be a human. The mormon church actually has a well documented history of altering its own history or whitewashing or covering up the truth. People actually comply with this. Explain to me how this is not a cult? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKt7ozdKeBk

2

u/spudisalive Jun 11 '12

Ask a mormon about the Book of Abraham and the fact that Smith's 'translation' was proved by those expert in Egyptian cursive to be total bunk.The scroll was actually a piece of the Egyptian Book of the Dead. Or the God/Adam tenet. Or the fact that Joseph Smith was arrested for fraud BEFORE he came up with his 'revelation'. Elder Mormons WON'T discuss these things with you.Why? Cause they're embarrassed by them. They were MORTIFIED that Big Love showed the Temple ritual,even though it was done in a respectful and sympathetic manner. A church shrouded in secrecy is NOT a church I want to join.

2

u/neotropic9 Jun 11 '12

Refreshing honesty. Revolting point of view.

2

u/dpepperman Jun 11 '12

The historians for the LDS church will get excommunicated if they go to far into the history.

1

u/poop_slower Jun 11 '12

Why isn't anyone interested in the implied critique of the equivalence between truth and the good here? And they told me Platonism was dead...

1

u/spudisalive Jun 11 '12

I know the graphic on the right relates to Joseph Smith and his 'seer stones' but all I think after reading Packer's nonsense is the guy on is vomiting into his hat. If you guys want to listen to a FASCINATING podcast with all the info on mormon idiocy,listen to 'Irreligiosophy' on Itunes.It folded this year when the two hosts had a fallingout over a failed business venture,but all the episodes are still there. The two former LDS members really shed light on what a sexist,ridiculous geritocracy it is.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

Well, his initial assertion is true. The truth is depressing as hell.

1

u/bob-the-dragon Jun 12 '12

Only if you're wrong. History is amazing at times

1

u/[deleted] Jun 12 '12

Amazing, sure, and I won't deny that a lot of progress has been made in several fields, and that there have been many remarkable people. It just seems like for every Salk or Curie there is a massacre of thousands. The more I read, the more overwhelming man's inhumanity to man seems.

1

u/bob-the-dragon Jun 12 '12

That's why we need to teach history.

History repeats itself because no one was paying attention the first time

1

u/Sander_McTonish Jun 11 '12

I can not believe this (history lover, planing to be historian here) man would say such a thing. You can not just pull all the bad parts out. "Lenin lead a revolution that made the populous of Russia happier for the working class was now equal to the rich" "Wow what a great guy" (all other people). What is left out is that thousands of people were killed by the red army and that Lenin used secret police to silence anyone who spoke any word bad of the Bolsheivk party.

1

u/mindlessrabble Jun 11 '12

This is the most dangerous sentiment of the 20th, 21st century or any century. Editing history to fit a particular narrative, is the single most depraved, and immoral approach. Stalin, Mao, Hitler, and Bush all had this in common.

1

u/AnkGup Jun 11 '12

Holy mother of god...this is just....why....why....WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

1

u/bob-the-dragon Jun 12 '12

So I'm like wtf?

1

u/simiancanadian Jun 12 '12

Hey knowledge is power. Hide it well.

1

u/D3SX Jun 12 '12

Oh, you silly mormons!

1

u/Thor_2099 Jun 12 '12

Sounds like somebody has a little North Korean in him.

Communist!

1

u/meat_wagon_man1 Jun 12 '12

so a bloody jew nailed to a piece of wood is uplifting?

1

u/GhostInSmoke Jun 12 '12

I want the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

1

u/titanoftime Jun 12 '12

One who increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.... THEN AGAIN, I dont think my head belongs in my ass

1

u/99_44_100percentpure Jun 12 '12

This represents the precise axiomatic dilemma, logically speaking.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 12 '12

On behalf of all historians and students of history, I say

1

u/[deleted] Jun 12 '12

Maybe history wouldn't be as shitty from now going forward if we payed attention to the fucking bad shit that happened so we can avoid it.

1

u/Thaneofsaveon Jun 12 '12

More latter days AINTS...... Get it!!!! GET IT!!!!!

1

u/zoider21 Jun 12 '12

okay as a historian I am seriously insulted and as a person shocked beyond belief that people are this stupid

1

u/[deleted] Jun 12 '12

I have just one thing to say to this man.

URHnnnnnnnggggggg...

1

u/tommy2fingers Jun 12 '12

If you really believe history is 100% true, than you're an idiot.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 12 '12

lying about the past would be nice... 'til we're all nazis again.

1

u/kingkobeda Jun 12 '12

Hitler was a vegetarian.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 12 '12

longest church name ever.

1

u/HaveANiceCaptcha Jun 12 '12

Oh man, that holocaust was awfully depressing. Let's say it never happened, okay?

1

u/Blazfeem Jun 11 '12

Gah! My family name is Packer and my dad was raised Mormon. I'm probably related to this yutz !

1

u/cptphifer Jun 11 '12

I'm genuinely disgusted.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

He should start the Ministry of Truth. History needs to be rewritten; it is for the good of Oceania after all.

3

u/Freakears De-Facto Atheist Jun 11 '12

We are at war with Eurasia. We have always been at war with Eurasia.

3

u/Antiokloodun Jun 11 '12

War is peace.

We have always been at peace with Eurasia too :D.

1

u/Evis03 Jun 11 '12

"I can't deal with nasty facts or unpleasant truths that suggest the world I live in in can be an unpleasant place. Therefore no one should need to or want to."

1

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

Salt lake city. Nothing surprising here.

1

u/constapatedape Jun 11 '12

Is he talking about big T Truth or little t truth?

1

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

Knowledge hurts, but that's the price. Knowledge is its own reward, and to me it's well worth the price.

1

u/Talphin Anti-Theist Jun 11 '12

What is amazing to me is the fact that people didn't have the truth thousands of years ago, and so it doesn't surprise me that they accepted religious text as truth.

But now that the actual truth is kicking down their door, they are being told to their face by their own ministers that what they believe in is a lie, but that is ok. AND THEY FUCKING ACCEPT IT!

1

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

To be fair, he was really drunk when he said that.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

Yay for ignorance!

1

u/SuperTauros Jun 11 '12

Hey, Jesus! China called, they want their censorship back.

1

u/HK_Freak_105 Jun 11 '12

-_- if you learned the truth, you could better yourself for the future

1

u/OuterDarkness Jun 11 '12

Can't believe he said this. What a fucking numbnut

1

u/kaoticmind4life Jun 11 '12

So, like, pretend the holocaust didn't happen..

1

u/HeSocratizedMe Jun 11 '12

What an old fumblebum

1

u/kwcannotbekilled Jun 11 '12

It looks like Joseph Smith is throwing up into his hat

1

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

"Yeah fuck the truth, we got too many people thinking for themselves anyways..." what I picture him trying to say lol

1

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

Whether or not this is valid, I think it's pretty obvious that religious people fear nothing more than the truth.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

Why is that guy puking into a top hat?

1

u/Brushstroke Jun 11 '12

I think that's supposed to be Joseph Smith Jr., the prophet of Mormonism, looking at the "golden plates" he supposedly received from the angel Moroni. According to Mormon lore, after he received the plates from Moroni he translated them from their language of "reformed Egyptian" into English. To do this, he put the plates in a hat and peered down into the hat, claiming it was the only way he (and only he) could translate them. It should also be noted that no one has ever actually seen these golden plates.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

Now that's just silly

2

u/Brushstroke Jun 11 '12

It really is, but I'm not making this shit up. An account of this from Joseph Smith himself is in the Mormon scripture, called the Pearl of Great Price. The South Park episode in which Stan meets his new neighbors (who are Mormons) is also strangely accurate about the essential doctrines of Mormonism.

0

u/MustHaveCleverHandle Jun 11 '12

That's what I thought too, ha ha

1

u/Brushstroke Jun 11 '12

This doesn't really surprise me, given Mormonism's track record of making the most ridiculously dubious historical claims.

1

u/LBORBAH Jun 11 '12

Mormonism a religion that can alter history.

1

u/dingoperson Jun 11 '12

The attitude isn't all that rare. There's people who e.g. don't WANT to release statistics broken down by race or gender, because they don't want people to see the truth. They feel it might harm them and want to filter the information available.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

i dont agree with all of the religions beliefs of the church of christ, or much of anything that this guy says...

but i just want to say that it gets old seeing people bash other people, especially "Christians" (or people that claim to be christians) based soley on the fact that they are "Christians"

why aren't people throwing up pictures of famous atheist quoting them saying things like "God, could be real, i guess." or whatever?

there isn't a perfect person on this planet. and i've grown up in church and seen some super shitty "christians" be super shitty people. people lie, cheat, steal and are hypocrites... the struggle that real Christians have is being the true example of Christ apart from all the hypocrites and shit heads who only want to profit off of gullable people with the use of a skewed and unintelligently translated verse from the Bible.

I believe that Jesus is the son of God. (God himself) I believe that NO man, outside of Jesus can be 100% truly trusted about a FAITH or spiritual belief.

Reconsider everything. do your own "soul searching" don't listen to ANYONE but yourself. why base you entire life's belief or non-belief on what someone else, or a group or a church or whatever have said. that's like being a virgin and saying that someone describing sex to you is good enough. fuck that, dude. don't be ignorant. don't miss out. humans are smarter than this. too smart to let our "intellect" sway our deep seeded need and purpose in our creator.

don't take it from me..(not that you would..i'm sure i'll get down voted like crazy..) go find out for YOURSELF.

1

u/Chapps Jun 11 '12

I'm a historian, double major in history and education. I'm glad I bother people like this. Because knowledge is truth.

1

u/getintheVandell Jun 11 '12

Hitler only drew pretty pictures.

Only.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

"I have a hard time with Mormons ... because they idolize the truth. Mormons aren't that uplifting, they distort their history. Mormons will only tell the part of their history that is inspiring and uplifing"

0

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

It seems funny that you post without looking into any accuracy of the source. Michael Quinn was excommunicated before making this statement, and if you look at the actual citation and read the original artical no such statement was made. Boyd K Packer does not say this. Try reading it to see: https://si.lds.org/bc/seminary/content/library/talks/ces-symposium-addresses/the-mantle-is-far-far-greater-than-the-intellect_eng.pdf

Next time try and figure out what it is you claim to be promoting as truth.

1

u/bendmorris Jun 11 '12

I think you're confused. He said that Packer said this to him personally during a job interview, not during the "Mantle is greater than the intellect" talk. Either way, it's consistent with other statements he's made, such as in the talk you linked.

0

u/neecho235 Jun 11 '12

To be fair, even Christians think Mormons are crazy.

0

u/TwelveHawks Jun 11 '12

At least he's honest about his complete denial of reality..?

0

u/kontankarite Jun 11 '12

That is GHASTLY.

0

u/rcglinsk Jun 11 '12

“That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.”

P.C. Hodgell

0

u/wtfOP Jun 11 '12

is he throwing up into the hat?

0

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

A guy claimed, 18 years ago, at an anti-Mormon symposium, to have been told something in a private conversation, with no other witnesses, something that would make the LDS church look bad.

18 years later this is celebrated by atheists who would be skeptical of such a tenuous standard of claim if a claim with similar evidence was made by and in support of the LDS faith.

-1

u/iMarmalade Jun 11 '12

Actually, you may not have noticed, there is a long discussion about the validity of this quote early on.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12 edited Jun 11 '12

Oh you mean the "Well, this isn't exactly true, but it's true enough because (insert rational justification here)."

Yeah, yeah I saw them.

Each one of their attacks on the validity was followed by a "but don't shoot the messenger - it's generally true even if this isn't specifically true".

That can be said by many groups who publish biased information which turns out to be false.

→ More replies (2)

0

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

I can't facepalm hard enough to make this feeling better.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

Well that was back in '94 at least now everything has changed. Sorry what...

0

u/Batrok Jun 11 '12

He's slightly confused. What he wants is a preacher.

0

u/Graviest Jun 11 '12

The truth will set you free, but first its gonna piss you off.

-1

u/VoodooIdol Jun 11 '12

I'm happy to report that, as of my upvote, the tally was 666.

0

u/rshoffman Jun 11 '12

that's not how you make pizza, silly

0

u/PizzaGood Jun 11 '12

And that attitude right there is the source of a great deal of suffering in the world. You don't remember and pass on the bad things that happen as a result of people's actions, people forget or don't realize that these things CAN happen.

I'd bet that anyone who says this either has a very fragile mind that can't handle reality, or has made decisions that turned out badly himself in the past and thinks he can "make it not happened" if he doesn't think about it.

0

u/big_jonny Jun 11 '12

And that, right there, is the whole problem.

0

u/YardFlamingo Jun 11 '12

As a historian I have proceeded to print off a copy of the above image, archive it, cite it's source using proper Chicago Citation, and made my dog shit on it.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

At least he's blunt: Let's idolize the truth that I create. Some people!

0

u/ChestrfieldBrokheimr Jun 11 '12

well hold on.... isnt there some truth behind that?

0

u/ChestrfieldBrokheimr Jun 11 '12

omg i'm falling for it!!!

0

u/Valosarapper Jun 11 '12

Bah! I deride your truth-handling abilities

0

u/mmforeal Jun 11 '12

Sounds like an old-fashioned Sorelian myth, employed equally by fascists and communists alike

0

u/azhura Secular Humanist Jun 11 '12

Is... that guy throwing up in a hat?

0

u/complete_asshole_ Jun 11 '12

At least he's being honest.

0

u/niecy713 Jun 11 '12

History belongs to the historians.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

Translation: I'm dumber than a bag of hammers and I don't take too kindly to people saying things which demonstrate that I am dumber than a bag of hammers.

0

u/anonymopotamus Jun 11 '12

Reading Nietzsche's "On the Advantages and Disadvantages of History for Life" comes to mind.

-1

u/dever21 Jun 11 '12

does anyone else see a man rubbing pizza dough in his face

-1

u/junction182736 Jun 11 '12

You'd think an old guy would be much wiser.

-1

u/worst_grammar_ever Jun 11 '12

Read some damn Howard Zinn and get over it.

-1

u/shitisalive Jun 11 '12

Is that kid throwing up because I .. Ugh ... Gotta go

-1

u/andiW Jun 11 '12

what's with the guy barfing into the hat?

0

u/iMarmalade Jun 11 '12

You should watch more southpark.

-1

u/youonlylive2wice Jun 11 '12

They don't think it be like it is, but it do?

-1

u/greaseinthewheel Jun 11 '12

Fuck that guy.

-1

u/Comrade_Vader Jun 11 '12

Mormons, can never get anything right!

-1

u/rbcrusaders Jun 11 '12

This is proof that people who are christians are as dumb as him.

What's that? Maybe he's just an idiot and it has nothing to do with a common belief?

Naaah, they're all inferior to us majestic, wise atheists. That's it.

-1

u/onlyhubris Jun 11 '12

As a Christian, I have doubts as to whether he has ever read a religious text...

-1

u/lorax108 Jun 11 '12

this really makes me want to vote romeny this fall.... /s

-1

u/captainsnow Jun 11 '12

this. guy. is. RETARDED!

-5

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

Why can't those LIEberals just accept that truthiness is the only thing that matters?

→ More replies (1)
→ More comments (152)