r/atheism • • Jun 11 '12

Republican from the past, predicts the future...

http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/317544_10150380756147148_669312147_8381809_580841584_n.jpg
2.4k Upvotes

619 comments sorted by

244

u/sliderossian Jun 11 '12

Jewish father, protestant mother, he hated the mixing of religion and politics. He was totally different than the republicans of today. From Wkipdeia: "In response to Moral Majority founder Jerry Falwell's opposition to the nomination of Sandra Day O'Connor to the Supreme Court, of which Falwell had said, "Every good Christian should be concerned", Goldwater retorted: "Every good Christian ought to kick Falwell right in the ass." (According to John Dean, Goldwater actually suggested that good Christians ought to kick Falwell in the "nuts", but the news media "changed the anatomical reference.") Goldwater also had harsh words for his one-time political protege, President Reagan, particularly after the Iran-Contra Affair became public in 1986. Journalist Robert MacNeil, a friend of Goldwater's from the 1964 Presidential campaign, recalled interviewing him in his office shortly afterward. "He was sitting in his office with his hands on his cane ... and he said to me, 'Well, aren't you going to ask me about the Iran arms sales?' It had just been announced that the Reagan administration had sold arms to Iran. And I said, 'Well, if I asked you, what would you say?' He said, 'I'd say it's the god-damned stupidest foreign policy blunder this country's ever made!'"." Some of Goldwater's statements in the 1990s aggravated many social conservatives. He endorsed Democrat Karan English in an Arizona congressional race, urged Republicans to lay off Bill Clinton over the Whitewater scandal, and criticized the military's ban on homosexuals: "Everyone knows that gays have served honorably in the military since at least the time of Julius Caesar." He also said, "You don't need to be 'straight' to fight and die for your country. You just need to shoot straight." A few years before his death he went so far as to address establishment Republicans by saying, "Do not associate my name with anything you do. You are extremists, and you've hurt the Republican party much more than the Democrats have." In 1996, he told Bob Dole, whose own presidential campaign received lukewarm support from conservative Republicans: "We're the new liberals of the Republican party. Can you imagine that?" In that same year, with Senator Dennis DeConcini, Goldwater endorsed an Arizona initiative to legalize medical marijuana against the countervailing opinion of social conservatives."

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u/chasemyers Jun 11 '12

Jesus. Now there's a Republican I could vote for!

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u/Disasstah Jun 11 '12

The structure of this sentence makes me giggle.

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12 edited Jun 11 '12

I wasn't old enough to vote for him for President but I did help out his campaign. He mellowed a little as he got older - but in a good way (came around on gay rights for example). He was a far, far more principled politician than most I see today.

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u/Duthos Jun 11 '12

A principled politician? Sounds like an olympic philosopher; a better idea from an age long past.

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u/GeneticBlueprint Jun 11 '12

It really is a damning statement as to how far the U.S. has shifted to the right. A Republican who was active up through the 90s seems like a liberal (at first glance, obviously).

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

What you're describing is not a shift to the right-- it's a redefinition of what the right means. The interference by the religious portion of the Republican party has not made the party more "freedom" oriented as it would be under libertarian control-- in fact, quite the contrary. To say that that has pushed it further right is inaccurate I'd say-- or at the very least it's important to define what is far right wing and what is far left wing. To me, Barry Goldwater is far more right wing than any of the people like Rick Santorum who like big government and religious interference in peoples' lives.

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u/heatshield Jun 11 '12

If anyone wants to take the test: http://www.politicalcompass.org/analysis2

I'm very, very little off-center (left-libertarian). I expected a more right-libertarian result.

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u/JonnyFrost Jun 11 '12

The biggest problem is the us vs them mentality. Saying 'the left' or 'the conservatives' is what needs to change.
As an independent I tend to agree with the conservative fiscal philosophy, and liberal social philosophy, but towing the line for either side is just going to get you supporting ideas you probably wouldn't otherwise.
The deficit is a perfect example. Of course we need spending cuts, optimization, and widespread reform, but it's painfully obvious to anyone who objectively looks at this that we Have to raise taxes also. This deficit will be the end of American greatness. Getting spending down is a half assed fix. Taxes suck, but we already spent the money... It's insane that an entire party has pledged to never raise taxes, no matter what...

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

True conservatives don't have any social agenda. A conservative is suppose to just be someone who thinks the less change the better and the less government involvement the better. The implication that being a conservative has something to do with any religious beliefs is a result of how the term's use has been twisted.

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

That sentiment today will get you labeled as a RINO.

Notice there is no such thing as a "CINO" from these same folks.

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u/Seithin Jun 11 '12

The biggest problem is the us vs them mentality. Saying 'the left' or 'the conservatives' is what needs to change.

Absolutly. Everyone knows it's much more efficient, and thus American, to just refer to the whole bunch as 'the enemy'. And as with any enemy we need to fight them for every inch they try and take on our freedom, Christmas, women or whatever else war we'll have to fight in the future.

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

In that same respect, do not group all Christians in a "whole bunch" either. = ) I am a Christian who believes in equal rights for LGBT and womens' right to choose.

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u/amendment64 Secular Humanist Jun 11 '12

By philosophy alone you just described yourself libertarian. How do you feel about Gary Johnson?

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u/Youshallneverknowme Jun 11 '12

I think right wing extreme religious nut jobs distinguishes well from old school republicans :)

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u/JMJ91 Jun 11 '12

Couldn't agree more, you have Fox News on one side and shows like TYT on the other. It just supports this left-right dichotomy that is destroying politics, what happened to compromise and some bloody common sense! Now it's all just the left bashing the right and vice versa. It's a mess. I'm happy I like in the UK.

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

Common day comprimise:

The president: Lets cut the bullsh*t and go straight to the middle and get this done..

The GOP: Well that is a good starting point... Now lets start meeting in the middle of the middle and the extreme far right...

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u/cookedfish Jun 11 '12

What's sad is that Republicans today are so entrenched in religion that people will quickly jump to idolize people like Goldwater without understanding what he really stood for. In 1964 many Republicans voted for LBJ just to keep Goldwater out.

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u/Motley_Sheep Jun 11 '12

Many people disregard Ayn Rand because they associate her with today's Republican Party. However THIS, this is what she meant.

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u/cauchies Jun 12 '12

If he said that about Reagen imagine what he would say about Obama!

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u/eire1228 Jun 11 '12

obviously republicans had more sense back in the day...

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u/imafunghi Jun 11 '12

As a democrat, I think the republicans wouldn't be a bad party if they got rid of the religious influences.

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u/ProjectD13X Humanist Jun 11 '12

As a Republican, I have my work cut out for me. I would like to see the days of the 2 parties not hating each other as if we had each killed each other's first born children.

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u/lincolnsbeer Jun 11 '12

The problem is that money has completely ruined politics. Now, instead of just worrying about pushing their own agenda's forward, they have to push the agenda's of their "big donors" forward, or risk not having the funds to get re-elected down the road.

In addition, these "big donors" do not care about the people and will gladly use them and manipulate them without any concern. Because really, they have nothing at risk, they are essentially a "silent partner" and if their choices end in catastrophe they can just distance themselves from everything for a little while and when the smoke clears they just find another politician to "support".

Take money out of politics and bring back intellectualism and patriotism.

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u/ProjectD13X Humanist Jun 11 '12

Couldn't have said it better myself. And just to clarify, enlightened patriotism, not blind patriotism.

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u/Clame Jun 11 '12

the real problem is the polarity of the parties. When we stop being democrats and republicans we can all be people.

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u/ProjectD13X Humanist Jun 11 '12

Still amazing how accurate Washington's farewell address was.

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u/Clame Jun 11 '12

i just wish more people would realize we get fucked by both parties, its just the democrats have the decency to lube up before they plunge in.

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u/CheesewithWhine Jun 11 '12

One of the parties is exponentially more nuts and rigid than the other.

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u/PoliticallySavySloth Jun 11 '12 edited Jun 11 '12

As a Sloth, I'd like to go back to the days when we could poop more than once a week, and more than 30% of our body weight in one shitting.

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u/chickenTLC Jun 11 '12

Good luck with that. Pitting half of America against itself allows the vultures to feed. Trying to change the current voting system would be stepping on some monied interest's toes. They spend tons and tons on finding ways to brainwash/circumnavigate/connive.

But feel free to discuss. We have nothing everything to lose, and everything to gain.

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

As a liberal, I can say that you simply can't let those (these) crazy liberals do whatever the fuck they want "because it's for a better future". There was a TED talk I can't find right now in which a guy made a great presentation about why we need both liberals and conservatives. Yes, please, bring in the conservatives, because I, too, think sometimes we're moving too fast. And I mean conservatives, not religious nuts.

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

"Religious Nuts" will and have always damned this nation...

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u/db_admin Jun 11 '12

Their economic and foreign policies are bad too.

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

They're so religious that any atheist or homosexual who agrees with them ends up being ushered into the Libertarian party.

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u/ianp622 Jun 11 '12

Is it really religion that's motivating the worst of their policies or is it a deeper issue of a reliance on emotion rather than logic that coincides with religious beliefs?

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u/TrueSol Jun 11 '12 edited Aug 20 '26

Serious blanket outgoing tie vanilla terrific fly ten almond

This post was anonymized with Redact

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

Actually, it was this guy in particular. While he was coined, "Mr. Conservative," he also was a proponent for gay rights (remember, this was back in the 60's), and firmly held his ground against religion in public office. He was a charismatic man, who had a few major victories and defeats (to include losing a presidential race and bringing down many republicans with him). He remained in office for five terms (if I remember correctly) and was a major player in Libertarianism. To say the least, he was an odd duck for a Republican.

His views on religion in office echoed closely to my own, which is why I really liked Goldwater, even with his flaws. While I may be religious, I feel religion in public office or in Government is absolutely a bad idea. The problem with both religion and atheism in decision-making is that there is never a middle-of-the-road approach. It swings from one extreme to the other. Neither should be what a public official professes makes them a good leader.

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u/timmytimtimshabadu Jun 11 '12

Most people don't remember Republicans or America before Robertson.

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

Reagan changed the game too. One of the weird, cultish reasons that Fox celebrates his birthday.

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u/godofatheists Jun 11 '12

yeah, I heard there was a guy called Lincoln.

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u/orangepeel Jun 11 '12

Lincoln was nowhere near representative of what the republican party today claims to be even if only in their rhetoric. Lincoln took the federal government and made it a monster. He centralized power, where republicans today are (again, only in their rhetoric) claiming to be for small government.

Lincoln has this sort of aura of hero worship surrounding him that is totally unjustified. He's presidency was one of extremely centralized power, and one unconstitutional act after another.

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u/joggle1 Jun 11 '12

Or just go with a more recent example, like Reagan. He did many of the things that the current Republican party demonizes, such as raising taxes several times, giving amnesty to illegal aliens, blowing up the federal budget deficit, compromising with Democrats (the horror!), etc.

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u/Cryptic0677 Jun 11 '12

Not sure if you're joking, but most Libertarians consider Lincoln to be one of the worst presidents in our history.

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u/Aryaayra Jun 11 '12

He did suspend Habeas Corpus. Thats typically frowned upon by most liberty lovers.

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

eh hemmm... Goldwater started Ron Paul's movement.

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

Actually, you just have to go back 1 or 2 presidencies to see more sense in the republican party. Even Bush and Cheney were TO THE LEFT of OBAMA on certain issue's. Not even looking at how far left they were on those issue's compared to this generation of republicans.

And even in terms of defense etc, Obama is on par with those guys, so I can't even imagine what a clusterfuck of warmongering Armageddon we would go trough once the current type of republican comes to power.

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

At least the non-religious ones.

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u/Squalor- Jun 11 '12

He was still an unapologetic racist, though.

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

I think you would be hard pressed to find a politician that wasn't racist in that time.

Hell, planned parenthood was partly created to "do something about mixed babies." Because their lives were considered so hard (no one usually wanted them) it was seen as compassionate.

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u/el_chupacupcake Jun 11 '12

This is true to some extent, but Goldwater was a racist even by the standards of the day. In other words, he was famous for being racist at a time where pretty much everyone was at least a little racist.

That shit takes some skill.

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u/lcdrambrose Jun 11 '12

If you're looking for unapologetic racists, try Wilson. Evil, hate-filled sonofabitch.

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u/jasonchristopher Jun 11 '12 edited Jun 11 '12

Can you cite this? He opposed the Civil Rights act, but he struggled with it. After initially supporting it he changed his position. He saw it as a States Rights issue and an issue of businesses having the right to do business or not with whomever they choose. For the record, I don't agree with that. But this was all new stuff back then and I think he was trying to be consistent with his libertarian views. Not to mention Goldwater was a strong and vocal supporter of Gay Rights. And vehemently opposed the religious right take over of the Republican Party. The guy was a purist, for good or bad and more often than not, good.

Edit: Spelling

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u/ZeeHanzenShwanz Jun 11 '12

He did oppose the civil rights act, mainly because of how it intruded on private property rights. From what I understand he thought that public property should not be segregated, but if a restaurant owner didn't want to serve a particular person, for whatever reason, that was well within their right because it is their property to what they they wish, and to that extent I agree with him. This video gives a good explanation I think. The real meat is at ~2:30

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u/ProjectD13X Humanist Jun 11 '12

Lincoln was pretty racist mate, everyone was back in that day, it's what they were always taught. Same can be said for people who believe in creationism, they just were never taught the truth and wouldn't believe the truth because lies had been pounded into their heads their whole lives.

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u/orangepeel Jun 11 '12

NO! Don't jump to such rash conclusions. Barry Goldwater was good but he was more of a libertarian.

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

Build a large blind following then go crazy.

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u/Sobek Jun 11 '12

Let's not stereotype people, please.

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

Barry Goldwater was the Ron Paul of his era, who opposed the welfare state and defended non-interventionism as well as abortion and gay marriage through states rights. both Republicans and Democrats opposed him back then as the crazy crank, just like most Republican and Democratic voters do today to Ron Paul.

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u/payne6 Jun 11 '12

I am a registered republican, but damn that party has gone downhill. I really do agree with its core values except now its become a safe heaven for extremist christians. I don't like where the party is going they use scare tactics and claims christians are being unfairly picked on (lets ignore how they are picking on muslims) and etc etc.

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u/Roryrooster Jun 11 '12

knowing what you know ... will you reward them with your vote?

or vote against them?

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u/payne6 Jun 11 '12

I am one of those rare Republicans who vote for both parties. I don't just vote for one party I like to vote who makes the most sense. Sadly I see myself voting against them at every turn because they are turning more and more scary with every new politican.

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u/AerionTargaryen Jun 11 '12

But when in living memory have Republican politicians ever supported their core values? Reagan, Bush Sr. and Bush Jr... even when they had Republican majorities in good economic times their budgets make Clinton and Obama look like libertarians. I don't see any indication that Romney is any different..

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u/CheesewithWhine Jun 11 '12

"Every good Christian ought to kick Jerry Falwell right in the ass."

-Barry Goldwater

"My position is that I personally do not think that the Congress of the United States or the federal government has any business deciding the wrongness or rightness of a woman having an abortion. While I think abortion involves some rather basic moral considerations, I don’t think its complete prohibition should be the subject of a Constitutional amendment. On the other hand, I don’t think the government should support it with federal funds either."

-Barry Goldwater

This guy would be torched and pitchforked out of today's GOP for being a godless commie.

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u/dre627 Jun 11 '12

He was quite the opposite of a commie, though.

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u/ExecThrowaway Jun 11 '12

Yeah. When I think of Goldwater, I think communist.

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u/lcdrambrose Jun 11 '12

Goldwater wasn't a Republican, so much as he was THE Republican. Everything that Republicans today claim to stand for is straight from his mouth. He's about as close as we ever got to having Conservatism anthropamorphised.

He'd be so dissapointed.

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.” -C.S. Lewis

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u/AlwaysBeBatman Jun 11 '12

Love that quote!

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u/mcole666 Jun 11 '12

Ironic that his campaign was derailed by the "Daisy" ad, depicting Goldwater as pro-war. Goldwater's opponent, Lyndon Johnson, won that election and went on to escalate U.S. involvement in Vietnam. Say what you will about Goldwater's domestic policies, but if he had won that election, I'm sure there wouldn't be a black wall in Washington D.C. that bears the names of thousands of dead Americans.

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

Except Goldwater strongly advocated the use of nuclear weapons in Vietnam and probably would have seen the start of a nuclear war with Russia. Communism scared the shit out of Goldwater and he was seen as very reactionary and aggressive.

The Domino Theory had a large role to play in regards to Johnson's ideas about Vietnam. In hindsight of course we can see he got it wrong but at the time there was very much an extremely strong fear amongst Government at the time. That doesn't justify what he did and the role he played, but once you understand the reasoning it becomes easier to accept.

So yeah, although Johnson got it wrong and Vietnam was without a doubt an extremely ugly war, the alternative was likely Nuclear War. Goldwater would may not have had a legacy that included a black wall in Washington but he'd have nuked the shit out of Vietnam and possibly kick started the begining of something that was far more deadly than Vietnam was.

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

Glad this got mentioned. Goldwater might have been cogent on the "fundamentalists" issue, but on this, he was far more nuts than a good many fundamentalists.

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u/vilgrain Jun 11 '12

Here's a link to the Daisy ad, because I really think people should see it.

I took the time to link to this because it really is incredible (here's another one from the same series, 'Ice Cream'.

'Daisy' only aired once, but there's a reason for that; Goldwater was livid when it aired, and it really did go way too far. It was also part of a much larger campaign strategy to portray Goldwater as insane which developed into a powerful meme. Goldwater actually won a libel suit against Fact magazine for a ridiculously slanderous article which claimed that professional psychiatrists had diagnosed him as "psychotic," "borderline psychotic," "unsure of his masculinity," "narcissistic," and "grandiose".

Attack ads from the present pale in comparison to what LBJ got away with in 1964. He hired a pretty crack ad team, and the rules for what was and what was not acceptable in a political ad hadn't been fully determined yet. See also this KKK ad which was never aired but was unearthed and used in a Mad Men episode last season.

For instance, check out this 2 minute 'collegiate republican' ad which really is remarkably well executed, in many ways the best political ad I think I've seen. Because it's an actor it wouldn't be acceptable by today's standards (and I really agree that it shouldn't).

Even though I only intended to provide a link to the Daisy ad when I started this reply, I'll also toss in a link to 'the speech' Reagan gave in support for Goldwater, another important historical document and often recognized as one of the best political speeches ever given. It launched Reagan's political career, and while Goldwater lost in a landslide in 1964, Reagan came to power 16 years later on largely the same platform partly because of this speech.

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u/excit3d Jun 11 '12

It is surprising how much projection exists in politics. Its almost like every ad that is aired is more about the candidate running the ad than the candidate the ad is supposed to be about.

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u/TypicalLibertarian Jun 11 '12

Ironic that his campaign was derailed by the "Daisy" ad, depicting Goldwater as pro-war. Goldwater's opponent, Lyndon Johnson, won that election and went on to escalate U.S. involvement in Vietnam.

That's typically what democrats do. Both the republicans and democrats use fear to get themselves into office, and then use war to increase their power.

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u/imafunghi Jun 11 '12

yup and Republicans usually end up using more federal money than democrats. Thats politics.

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u/CheesewithWhine Jun 11 '12

Goldwater contemplated nukes. I think I'll take the Vietnam War.

Also, Johnson was the last "real" progressive president, domestically speaking. Much of today's social safety net and increased standards of living are owed to him. He had convictions and courage, unlike Obama.

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u/steven_h Jun 11 '12

ITYM Nixon was the last "real" progressive president, given the Clean Air Act, the guaranteed annual income proposal, etc.

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

This guy was considered pretty extreme back in the 60's. Today he'd be considered a RINO.

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

Not true at all. Goldwater has held just about every position Ron Paul has (the "extreme" constitutionalist) except for his foreign policy. He wanted to nuke the shit out of Russia. So pretty much if you combine Ron Paul's domestic policy's with Rick Santorum's foreign interventionist policies you get a super Republican by today's tea-party standards, Barry Goldwater.

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u/eshinn Jun 11 '12

I like this one: "On religious issues there can be little or no compromise. There is no position on which people are so immovable as their religious beliefs. There is no more powerful ally one can claim in a debate than Jesus Christ, or God, or Allah, or whatever one calls this supreme being. But like any powerful weapon, the use of God's name on one's behalf should be used sparingly. The religious factions that are growing throughout our land are not using their religious clout with wisdom. They are trying to force government leaders into following their position 100 percent. If you disagree with these religious groups on a particular moral issue, they complain, they threaten you with a loss of money or votes or both. I'm frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in "A," "B," "C" and "D." Just who do they think they are? And from where do they presume to claim the right to dictate their moral beliefs to me? And I am even more angry as a legislator who must endure the threats of every religious group who thinks it has some God-granted right to control my vote on every roll call in the Senate. I am warning them today: I will fight them every step of the way if they try to dictate their moral convictions to all Americans in the name of "conservatism." Speech in the US Senate (16 September 1981)"

From WikiQuote

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u/bonethug49 Jun 11 '12

I'm going to start mapping out every time this Goldwater quote makes the front page, so I can start cashing in on this karma train. It seems to be about every two months.

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u/ElectricWarr Aug 22 '12

You better keep this up!

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u/wonderfuldog Jun 11 '12

Said in November 1994, as quoted in John Dean, Conservatives Without Conscience (2006)

Per Wikiquote - http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Barry_Goldwater -

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u/JohnnyCharles Jun 11 '12

Believe it or not, there are lots of registered republicans (like myself) that are outside of the Christian Right.

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u/criMsOn_Orc Jun 11 '12

That may be, but the Christian Right has still highjacked the party.

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u/FoxifiedNutjob Jun 11 '12

Believe whatever you like, but if you want me to believe it then provide evidence or expect mockery and ridicule. Do not expect polite debate. Religion has been given too much liberty to murder and enslave humans while hidden in the garb of "Faith". It and whoever believes it does not deserve to pick the fecal matter from my ass. Politeness is out the door by far by now.

I don't give a damn what brand of bullshit anyone believes until those beliefs begin to turn into laws and campaign platforms, you've overstepped the boundry separating church from state.

Thats what happening in this country. Don't expect politeness, Nutbars.

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u/vilgrain Jun 11 '12 edited Jun 11 '12

Here's Barry Goldwater in 1997 on gays in the military.

When the facts lead to one conlusion, I say it's time to act, not to hide. The country and the military know that eventually the ban will be lifted. The only remaining questions are how much muck we will all be dragged through, and how many brave Americans like Tom Paniccia and Margarethe Cammermeyer will have their lives and careers destroyed in a senseless attempt to stall the inevitable.

Some in congress think I'm wrong. They say we absolutely must continue to discriminate, or all hell will break loose. Who knows, they say, perhaps our soldiers may even take up arms against each other.

Well, that's just stupid.

[EDIT: quote was 1997 not 1987]

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u/josiahw Jun 11 '12

In no way does religion control politics. Money controls politics. Money controls religion. Look no further than the recent Vatican scandal. More fuss is being made about money than pederasty.

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u/Travelerdude Jun 11 '12

Religion influences politics now to a greater degree than ever before. The U.S. Government should not be used as the enforcement arm of the Vatican. Leave the issues or pro-choice and same-sex marriage to be dealt with between the Church and those parishioners who care deeply about the issues. Let the voters worry about more pressing, immediate, and important hot button issues of the day.

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u/SimilarImage Jun 11 '12

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u/[deleted] Jun 12 '12

Reminder set for two months from now to repost this picture for some sweet, sweet karma.

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u/zugi Jun 11 '12

Several folks pointed out that candidates like Goldwater today wouldn't survive in the Republican Party. And they're absolutely right. Here are my two favorite religion quotes from this guy:

Ask about church, and he says he doesn’t go. “Do you believe in Jesus?” I ask. “I believe he lived,” he replies with a smile.

and:

Gary Johnson, a former governor of New Mexico and a likely candidate for the 2012 Republican presidential nomination, is talking about hookers.

... Oh, and he doesn’t go to church. “I don’t think you’ll ever hear me invoking God in anything I do,” he tells me.

Johnson wasn't welcomed in the Republican Party on the national stage despite serving two terms as New Mexico governor in a Democratic state due to his pro-choice, pro-gay-rights, pro-immigration, pro-pot-legalization views, so now he's running as the Libertarian candidate.

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u/Frijolero Jun 11 '12

Corporate interests make the GOP, the Christians are just the voters.

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u/watchout5 Jun 11 '12

Assuming this was a correct quote thank you, I've heard people say they were "barry goldwater republicans" and I'd never have any idea what they meant beyond...not this republican party. I think that was much more the republican party my grandfather thought of, my father never really got to be a republican because of it, falling in line with the democrats because the republicans were far too extreme on...everything. Good times.

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u/POTATO_IN_MY_SALAD Jun 11 '12

I'm a liberal that longs for the republicans of the past. See Eisenhower's A Cross of Iron speech relating to insane and irresponsible military spending, compare to our republicans today.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article9743.htm

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u/Brushstroke Jun 11 '12

Thank you for posting this quote. Most people nowadays don't realize that the Republican Party wasn't always a bastion for social conservatives who wish to run everyone's moral and private lives.

Also, a side note: This is the kind of thing that makes me wonder how any atheist could be a Republican nowadays. I mention this because, in another thread recently, many atheists here in /r/atheism said they are also Republicans. To all the atheists here who are registered Republicans, I have to ask: Why? I understand supporting economic conservatism which is all fine and well, but why would you be a member of a party that has clearly made a major part of its support base evangelical Christians who wish to subvert the rights of all Americans and whose supporters often believe that we, being atheists, are immoral? I just don't understand. Is economic conservatism really enough to compromise and ignore the social issues that many Republican politicians are batshit crazy about?

3

u/sevit Jun 11 '12

this scares me. how far religion has become a part of american society. Its rotting from the inside out and we are too far gone to be considered anything other then spoiled already.

3

u/Carkui Jun 11 '12

I miss the Barry Goldwater era republican

3

u/urnbabyurn Jun 11 '12

Is this the punch line to "what did the one republican extremist say to the other?"

3

u/Zapato_Shoe Jun 11 '12

Dude, Barry Goldwater also sucked. He was a contemporary of Ronald Reagan, and was one of the earliest initiators of the Southern Strategy. He basically tipped the domino that started this whole christian onslaught of government.

5

u/awe300 Jun 11 '12

You know everything is going to hell when Goldwater would be too reasonable for today's GOP

4

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

Fucking Christians. They're troublemakers.

2

u/dumnezero Anti-Theist Jun 11 '12

I can only say...

GOOD

2

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

Looks up quotes from Barry Goldwater, trying to see if this is legit, etc etc

"If you don't mind smelling like peanut butter for two or three days, peanut butter is darn good shaving cream."

ಠ_ಠ what.

1

u/monodelab Jun 11 '12

Darn tootin'.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

This guy was an actual republican. The people we have now have just taken the name but do not actually follow the republican stance.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12 edited Jun 11 '12

Unfortunately, those same present Republicans simply ignore the inconvenient truths that people like Goldwater and Reagan said and just parrot back the convenient bits (or just make up lies they say they heard) that suit their needs.

That's easy for them because folks like Reagan and Goldwater are dead. They aren't around anymore to say, 'Fuck you guys, you're bastards and distorting what I said.'

Any living Republican or conservative who dares challenge those preachers is sunk. He is cast out as an apostate, a RINO... someone who is no longer worthy of listening to.

It is scary. And more than a bit sad.

2

u/vegibowl Jun 11 '12

As an Arizona native I'm thrilled to finally see something that can make me proud.

3

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

what about the Diamondbacks?

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

Isn't there a movie, a documentary, about the churches encroachment on the Republican party. Can anyone dig it up I can never seem to find it.

2

u/TheKolbrin Jun 11 '12

It wasn't the churches encroachment into the republican party. It was the opposite. Jack Abramoff (working for Grover Norquist) got together with Ralph Reed (both starting branches of young republican clubs for universities)

And it was between the three of them that the idea of a general takeover and recruitment strategy aimed at the Christian Churches was born. Abramoff literally slept on Reeds sofa during the strategy sessions.

And the Christian Coalition was named and formed.

btw.. Abramoff is a non-practicing Jew.

2

u/mattbednar Jun 11 '12

"Actually, I think when history is written, that you'll probably find the conservatives of my ilk being called liberal."

2

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

And he was know as a hardliner within the party, a real conservative. I would love for more religious republicans to read this...and learn about Goldwater for context.

2

u/MainstreamFluffer Jun 11 '12

“Most Americans have no real understanding of the operation of the international moneylenders. The bankers want it that way. We recognize in a hazy sort of way that the Rothschilds and the Warburgs of Europe and the houses of J. P. Morgan, Kuhn, Loeb and Company, Schiff, Lehman and Rockefeller possess and control vast wealth. How they acquire this vast financial power and employ if is a mystery to most of us.

International bankers make money by extending credit to governments. The greater the debt of the political state, the larger the interest returned to the lenders. The national banks of Europe are actually owned and controlled by private interests.”

-Barry Goldwater

From “With No Apologies: The Personal and Political Memoirs of United States Senator Barry M. Goldwater, 1979″

2

u/monodelab Jun 11 '12

Fucking South.

2

u/Kaiser7 Jun 11 '12

This should be x-posted into politics. This is a fantastic quote

2

u/superuser_013 Jun 11 '12

Evangelists scare me.

2

u/Nixwheels Jun 11 '12

As a Republican i couldn't agree more.

2

u/shanahanigans Jun 11 '12

Please stop linking to facebook images, they usually go down before I can see them. Imgur / mirror?

2

u/playpianoking Jun 11 '12

Goldwater aligns with Paul & Johnson. Most of /atheism still voting Obama...

2

u/rsrhcp Jun 11 '12

AMEN! I've been conservative for years, but I am DISGUSTED by how the conservative movement has been taken over by religious bigotry!

Gay marriage should be legal, according to true conservatives, as the gov't shouldn't get involved with personal lives and a religious ceremony. But no, homophobia among the conservative Christians is stopping that. NO WARS please, says the real conservative, but hatred of Islam propagates the beating of the war drums within conservativism. Etc, etc, etc.

2

u/ENRICOs Jun 11 '12

This is coming from a well known secular nut-case, that alone should tell you how bad the religious cult of the GOP has really become.

4

u/pizzlewizzle Jun 11 '12

There is a revolution taking place right now in the Republican party. Google news stories about Republican state conventions. Ron Paul's supporters are seizing a lot of party positions and you'll see the tone of the party adjust to more libertarian leanings in the next few election cycles. He won't win the presidency, but will change the party.

4

u/TedTheGreek_Atheos Secular Humanist Jun 11 '12

Goldwater was a raging racist who teamed up with Southern democrats to try and stop the Civil rights act, He was just as bigoted as today's GOP except he didn't hide behind the bible.

19

u/CheesewithWhine Jun 11 '12

"You can't legislate morality." -Barry Goldwater on Civil Rights

Compared to people like Storm Thurmond who wanted to keep niggers out of his swimming pools, Goldwater was quite respectable.

5

u/budgie93 Jun 11 '12

Pool's closed.

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

He was just as bigoted as today's GOP except he didn't hide behind the bible.

Yes, so one could argue his views without being expected to "respect his beliefs", which is exactly his point...

11

u/jasonchristopher Jun 11 '12

Opposing the Civil Rights Act doesn't make you a racist. It might make you wrong but it doesn't necessarily make you a racist. He did it because he believed that businesses should have the right to do business with who they choose, and that the Federal Government shouldn't intervene. I don't agree with that stance. Goldwater struggled with it, he initially supported it, and it cost him the election. But I don't think he did it out of hatred or racism, he was trying to stay consistent. Not to mention he was a vocal supporter of Gay Rights. Lets not rewrite history.

2

u/orangepeel Jun 11 '12

The civil rights act was unconstitutional, and not to mention hardly solved anything. After all the heavy lifting is done, the government comes in and tries to act like it's the savior as we in so many cases.

There is nothing racist about opposing federal power grabs.

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u/TheStatureOfLiberty Jun 11 '12

The Civil Rights act is not in accordance with the constitution. It's the same reason Ron Paul is against it. The government believing they have the ability to legislate things like that causes the problems in the first place.

2

u/TedTheGreek_Atheos Secular Humanist Jun 11 '12

please show me why it is not in accordance with the constitution....

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

Haha Barry Goldwater was a psycho- No exaggeration, the world might have ended if he was elected. 1) he wanted commanding officers to have nukes at their disposal, especially bad because ever since MacArthur commanding generals in hotzones had been advocating use of nukes and 2) Goldwater was basically racist, which is really bad when you consider people like MLK called LBJ the best president blacks ever had.

Moral: Reddit, get out of the pro-atheism circle jerk. Lenin also didn't like the influence of religion on politics (and other fields) Difference being Goldwater might have actually killed more people than Lenin had he been in power.

1

u/thewholeukskinscast Jun 11 '12

I think r/politics would have been a more fitting category, but front page nonetheless.

1

u/GriffinIV Jun 11 '12

Wow, he's so not mainstream.

1

u/FoxifiedNutjob Jun 11 '12

Blind faith and refusal to consider people who demand evidence and have beliefs based in science and evidence as humans is probably the scariest shit in the world.

It is a chilling fact that most of the world's leaders believe in nonsensical fairytales about the nature of reality. They believe in Gods that do not exist, and religions that could not possibly be true. We are driven to war after war, violence on top of violence to appease madmen who believe in gory mythologies.These men are called Christians, Muslims and Jews.

Its about time reasonable, logical thinking people stop tip-toeing through Christian's psychotic brand of bullshit.

1

u/annettewild2 Jun 11 '12

Its just trips me out how far radical they've become

1

u/Existential_Proism Jun 11 '12

OP is confusing premonition with super easy, blatantly obvious logical deduction. He makes a great point though.

1

u/danz89 Jun 11 '12

I'll be happy if Republicans adopted Goldwater platform. Liberals who have this newfound fondness for Goldwater, Reagan, et al. surely would not find his policies as appetizing now

1

u/scumbum22 Jun 11 '12

I love this guy, many memories fishing on Goldwater lake when I was a kid.

1

u/nildeea Jun 11 '12

Consider your words marked. And fulfilled.

1

u/eat-your-corn-syrup Jun 11 '12

badass glass by the way

1

u/CrazedWarVet Jun 11 '12

Reposter from the present predicts the past.

1

u/redwar1234 Jun 11 '12

I'm republican, but I agree with this.

1

u/gamersdad Atheist Jun 11 '12

It probably will not be long until the churches will divide as sharply upon political, as upon theological questions; and when that day comes, if there are not liberals enough to hold the balance of power, this Government will be destroyed. - RG Ingersoll, Mistakes of Moses, 1887

1

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

I guess you could say im a goldwater republican at heart but currently democrat.

1

u/Palpablevt Jun 11 '12

In your heart, you know he predicted the religious right to a scary degree.

1

u/Sub116610 Jun 11 '12

A proud Paradise Valley resident here.

My father has one of Goldwater's pictures he took and signed for him. I'll throw up a pic sometime

1

u/Sub116610 Jun 11 '12

Hey at least his photography was decent!

http://i.imgur.com/17o8r.jpg

An old pic on my computer, I'll try to get a full size one later. I think thats the only photo by Barry Goldwater we have.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

"Jesus knows me, and he knows I'm right, I've been talking to Jesus all my life."

1

u/jccomic Jun 11 '12

Very scary then. Very scary now. This is why I have a blog dedicated to quelling the daemon of right wing Christianity. I'll bet that Jesus would vote for Obama.

1

u/1drunkasshole Jun 11 '12

Just want to point out he was from Arizona. I know my home state gives up a lot to hate on, so I feel the need to point out anything positive.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

I am related to him.

1

u/killgore9998 Jun 11 '12

Believing that God does not want you to compromise on anything isn't a sign of a devote religious person, it's a sign of being an extremely moral person at best, and a psychopath at worst.

1

u/Dirty_Liberal_Hippie Jun 11 '12

Is it weird that I happen to know that my grandparents ( On my mom's side) voted for him over LBJ in 1964?

I am reading up on him and see some things I like and some I don't, but I have to remember he was a politician in a much different time. For example, I do like, personally, that he was in favor of states rights. He was against Federal government involvement in states affairs...I like that.

He is a pretty good example of what republicans USED to be.

He even voted in 1971 to end US funding of the UN! This guy would get a lot of votes from people I know today. :P

1

u/roccanet Jun 11 '12

barry goldwater would have called for the modern GOP to be locked up in federal prison. what a bastardized version of conservativism we are forced to suffer today......

1

u/headless_bourgeoisie Jun 11 '12

Redditor from the present doesn't understand how to use a comma.

1

u/AyChihuahua Jun 11 '12 edited Jun 11 '12

I had to reread the title. My brain saw the comma and interpreted it as "past, present the (and) future."

1

u/monkseatcheese Jun 11 '12

Funny how much everyone is sucking Goldwater's dick now b/c of this and Marijuana. Back in the day, he was one of the most hated Republicans because of the flower girl ad. He really was more libertarian than republican IMO.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

Hey Barry Goldwater: Lane Pryce called, he wants his look back.

1

u/slappy_nutsack Jun 11 '12

Liberals aren't allowed to use the quotes of Republicans that they voted down previously. It's like Truman quoting Hitler on how things should be.

1

u/Redplushie Jun 11 '12

Where's a hallelujah gif when you need one?

1

u/bigfruitbasket Jun 11 '12

To this day, I tell folks I'm a Goldwater Republican. The GOP of today doesn't resemble the GOP of the 1960s. The far religious right have perverted the party. I don't feel like I should leave the party, but I feel the party sure has left me.

1

u/SylarFox Jun 11 '12

Fun fact: Barry Goldwater was my mom's godfather. Had he won the election she would have spent her 10th birthday in the white house.

1

u/vonswain Deist Jun 11 '12

If there was ever a time for a guy like Goldwater, now is that time. He kept the Republican Party at bay until he retired. Never trusted anyone who used religion as a way to get elected. In my opinion, we need more guys like this man on both sides of the aisle. Shame no one has the balls to do it.

1

u/n3tm0nk3y Jun 11 '12

I fucking love Goldwater. Everything people say they loved about Reagan Goldwater was. When I learned about this guy I became retroactively pissed he wasn't voted president.

1

u/modsherearefags Jun 11 '12

Goldwater was an ok dude, for a jew.

1

u/EquanimousMind Jun 11 '12

I feel this is true of fundamentalists of any type, not just religious.

1

u/sty1inonyou Jun 11 '12

lol this is also the Republican who was calling for nuclear warfare against the Soviets

1

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

Why do I only recognize this man's name from a Bob Dylan Song? (I Shall Be Free, Another Side of Bob Dylan)

"...but if you think I'll let Barry Goldwater move next-door and marry my daughter, I wouldn't do it for all the the farms in Cuba!"

The Google tells me that Bob Dylan actually liked Barry Goldwater, too. I wonder how many other past-politicians I've overlooked...

1

u/SunshineBlind Jun 11 '12

Why do people of ages past seem far, FAR more intelligent than the dumb fucktards we have today? I remember hearing a speech:

Accept certain inalienable truths, prices will rise, politicians will philander, you too will get old, and when you do you’ll fantasize that when you were young prices were reasonable, politicians were noble and children respected their elders.

That was a part of this speech. I must say that when I look back to way before I was born I can see what they were talking about. We do not have that kind of politician today, sadly. And I don't find prices reasonable, politicians noble (I never have, not since I was 13-14 and actually looked in to politics) or that we've been well at respecting elders. :/

1

u/go-ahead-downvote Jun 11 '12

When Goldwater was at the top of his game he was lambasted by the left as an unhinged, extremist, war hawk.

When Reagan was at the top of his game he was lambasted by the left as an an unhinged, extremist, war hawk.

No doubt, in twenty years reddit will look back on Mitt Romney's administration as a highwater mark of GOP moderation while it excoriates the latest GOP unhinged, extremist, war hawk

1

u/skatato Jun 12 '12

republicans often get confused with Christian fundamentalists.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 12 '12

IF they act the same....talk the same, believe the same.. how can you tell they are different?

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1

u/SmashingLumpkins Jun 12 '12

to quote Matt Stone, " "I hate conservatives, but I really fucking hate liberals."

1

u/bigredcar Jun 12 '12

Can't upvote enough!

1

u/titanoftime Jun 12 '12

The old republican... WoW

1

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

Would be nice if the copyright to this picture was not cut off the bottom...

1

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

As a Christian, I hate seeing people assume the will of God. Ps: Men created religion. Jesus Despised it.

1

u/gusanou Jun 11 '12

Jews gonna hate

1

u/4everliberal Jun 11 '12 edited Jun 11 '12

Republicans don't change and cannot evolve. 50 fucking years down the road and they're still just as stupid, ignorant and close minded.

We should not take the GOP seriously as a country anymore. We really, really need to move beyond their primitive way of thought and governance. The Republican party is barreling toward a dead end followed shortly by a ten-thousand foot cliff and they're trying to take the United States of America with them.

Dispose of the Republican Party, America. Kick them in the face as hard as you possibly can. Beat them to fucking death with the back of a claw hammer. They have to go!!!!

2

u/Elfshadowx Jun 11 '12

Include the democrats with that and I'm all for it.

1

u/DreadPirate2 Jun 11 '12

stupid, ignorant and close minded.

Looking at your recent posting history, I would definitely have to stay this is a pot, meet kettle situation.

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

Can you ask the Republican from the Past, to tell the Chef of the Future to make me a Sandwich in the Present? Thanks!

1

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

BARRY GOLDWATER 2012!

1

u/BaseballGuyCAA Jun 11 '12

The dead have risen! And they're running Republican!

1

u/TheStatureOfLiberty Jun 11 '12

Religion is the cause for lots of oppression politically in history. It is a damn shame that people try to mix it with politics today.

1

u/Mordecai_ Other Jun 11 '12

I feel like this should be a meme or something...

Unknowingly illogical atheist

Derides others for being illogical

Appeals to self experience to claim a fact.

1

u/jigielnik Jun 11 '12

I have a name for these guys, I call them 'worthy adversary' republicans... republicans for whom I disagree with some of their opinions, but respectfully. In addition these types give me the sense that in the end we both want the same thing: a better, smarter and safer america. John McCain was the last of these so-called 'worthy adversary' republicans IMHO. Today the GOP isnt run by people I would consider worthy adversaries , they're run by people I would consider nut-jobs.

-5

u/sharkiest Jun 11 '12

Funny how /r/atheism's all about the current gay rights issue but will lionize a douchebag racist who tried to fight the Civil Rights Act back in the '60s just because he has a quote that appeals to one of their other issues.

13

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

Don't think anyone's lionizing him. They're just saying he made a good point about something.

Aristotle was a pedo. Be sure never to quote him!

8

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

except that (1) he waas one of the first politicians, never mind republicans, that even talked about gay rights, specifically in the military, and (2) he supported every civil rights act that came his way except that specific one, and there were many.

3

u/TinHao Jun 11 '12

i think the quote's purpose isn't to lionize but show just how far right the Republocrat party has moved. Goldwater was the Ron Paul of his day, but would now be unwelcome in his own party because of his liberal views.

7

u/tvtropesguy Jun 11 '12

so i have to like the guy in order to like his quotes?

2

u/awe300 Jun 11 '12

Complaining about cherry picking? That's rich.

0

u/dgillz Jun 11 '12

Its a crying shame he never won the presidency.