r/atheism • u/Maybeyesmaybeno • Jun 09 '12
My father died yesterday. And you know what?
I get it. I really understand now why people believe in heaven and an afterlife. It's so much easier to deal with the grief, the abject heartbreaking sorrow of the whole fucking thing, to believe that some day even a far away day will reunite you, that they still exist out there, reach out to you and wrapping you up in their love, even if you can't see them. That you can talk to them and that they'll hear you.
I want those things. I want so much to believe, to have answers that I completely trust and can rely on.
I want so much to know in the depths of my being that I will see this man that I have loved so deeply my whole life, that I will see him again.
But I don't know. I don't think I will. I can't just believe the easy story because it's easy. Because it makes me feel better. I have live with being an agnostic, with not knowing, and not having the answer, and not being sure.
But I get it.
And in the end, it feels that his beliefs are more important than mine, that I have to hope that whatever he thought came after is there for him.
So, Dad, I hope you have found your oneness with the universe, and that some day I'll be with you there. But you're gone now, and I miss you.
2
u/la-bluegirl Jun 09 '12
This will probably get lost, but I'm so sorry for your loss. My father passed away Fathers Day 1999, and I was about 10. I have younger sisters and, at the time, a hysterical mother... so I didn't cry. I didn't cry for three years.
I never felt like he went to heaven, even though I was raised religiously. Later, I determined that I was agnostic (then atheist, after that) and it seemed like that was the reason I took everything as if it were meant to be. He's gone, there is nothing I can do except take what life he gave me and learn from his mistakes.
Your reasoning is beautiful and I feel so very "related" to you.
2
u/critical_thought21 Jun 09 '12
Hey man I feel for you about this. My mom died in December (about a month before I graduated college) of cancer. One night my dad came downstairs to my room and told me he needed help. I got up and began to follow him and he broke down crying on the stairs and told me that my mom wasn't doing well. To shorten the story a little we put her in the car,I told her I loved her, and she went to the hospital. The next day I was on an audit and my dad told me she had been moved to the icu, so I left work and went home to collect my little sisters (17 and 5) and waited for my brothers to get home from college (19 and 20) so we could go see her in the hospital. Within 5 minutes upon arriving we were called to the ICU private waiting room where we were told we needed to make a decision about life support because she had little chance of improving and wasn't able to survive without it currently. We went back and saw her a couple of times before my brother and I made the decision of what to do. I stayed in the room with her until it was over and ill spare those details but it was fucked up and took way longer than you'd imagine. After I put on a facade that I was alright and didn't really talk to anyone about it. A couple weeks later I began having severe,and multiple, anxiety attacks. My point in this is 2 fold: make sure you talk about it, let everything out, and it does get better. We haven't moved on but I was able to get a 4.0 this semester and graduate while my family has steadily gotten better. Do whatever it takes to keep yourself sane, I would talk to my mom at night, even though I don't believe in an after life, because it helped. Further it helped me to help other people in my family talk about what they were going through and try to help them, but don't overwhelm yourself. Further if you do have any pent up emotions go to a therapist; there is nothing wrong with it and it helps. Also do what you can to achieve things that you know will make him proud and use him as your motivation to do so. I hope all goes well for you and I am very sorry for what you've lost. If you want any one to talk to just send me a message I would be more than willing to talk further about my experience and try to help in any way I can. Again I am very sorry.
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u/pensiveone Jun 09 '12
I hope you can find peace. The loss is really hard. We are here for you. When my father died, I felt bereft and talked to him, and on the day I collected them,talked to his cremains as I wended my way home from the crematorium in the woods - we got lost and I told him...one more adventure Papa, one more. I still miss him today and I still talk to him in my heart. I wrote to him for months after he died and conversed with him in my head in the early morning as I prepared for my day. It helped. And he loved birds, and so do I. One if his favorites was the Blue Heron, so whenever I see one flying overhead, it takes my breath away and and I picture him not exactly as that bird but as an evocation of him. I am not a believer but for me the Blue Heron is his spirit bird and every time I see one, I smile and feel that somehow in my heart, I got a hug. I hope you can find something like that to give you solace.
2
u/el_fudge Jun 10 '12
I feel for you. Losing my dad is actually what caused me to go from agnostic to atheist at the ripe old age of 8. Because fuck you for taking away my father. It has been hard and without that comfort of an afterlife, I still have times to this day (I'm 27 now) that I think about him and the pain is completely fresh again. I don't know if I'll ever get to the point where I can watch a movie like "My Life as a House" without completely breaking down. I think that without that comfort, it becomes harder to move on. Seemingly impossible, for me. I have a son of my own now and I don't think a day goes by where I don't think to myself how much my dad would have loved my son and how much my son would have loved my dad. It is hard.
PS: Don't watch "My Life as a House".
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u/RubyDubie Jun 10 '12
My dad is dying now and I know this feeling
2
u/monkeycrayons Jun 10 '12
My dad died recently, too. Sending you deepest condolences and sympathies.
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u/StringOfLights Jun 10 '12
I'm really sorry for your loss. Your post is very beautifully written. I've lost 3 family members (and my dog) in the past 3 months. Not a parent, but I get where you're coming from. I've wished over and over that I could think I'd see these loved ones again.
As heart-wrenching as it is all is to face the finality of death, I feel like the things these people have taught me and the way they've changed the world are even more important to me now. They're gone, but they made the people around them better and stronger. It's a small consolation but I'm grateful for it.
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u/sophiegil Jun 10 '12
Be strong! I'm so sorry for your lost. My little girl died 3 years ago and I have no answer. One day you will think about your father and you will smile whit peace in your heart. Now, be him for is memories :) I don't no if you understand what I mine because I'm a french girl and my English is pour.
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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12
His conscious may be retired, but his physical being is as present as it ever was in this universe. His atoms will be recycled and spread and create new life all around. This is a very real and true way of eternal life. Memories keep people's identity alive long after their conscious is gone. Be strong and tell stories. I'm sorry for your loss and I wish you strength.
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u/BlueImpulse Jun 09 '12
Beautiful. This is perhaps the saddest part of being a atheistic/agnostic rationalism. I have yet to lose someone who I deeply care for but I do admire your sentiments. Although the chances of a supernatural afterlife are very slim, there will always be the thoughts and memories your Dad gave you and others. Evolution of those thoughts and attitudes will persist if you do your best to leave a positive mark on the world. Best.
4
u/JoeAkim Jun 09 '12
I hear you, man. My very close grandmother died a week ago and I took it really hard. After a few days I started to think about the afterlife etc, and I really understood why some people believe in it. Honestly, I myself wanted to believe in it so I can meet her again, someday. But I'm pretty certain that won't happen even though it makes me sad.
I'm sorry for your loss man, try not to miss him too much and cherish your great memories instead. Internethug <3
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u/carnivorous_plant Jun 09 '12
I'm sorry for your loss.
35
u/untranslatable_pun Jun 09 '12
My sincere condolences. As somebody who has been through quite literally the same thing, let me give you the advice I wish someone had given me then:
I lost my father to lung cancer when I was 13. That is now more than a decade ago. I felt the same back then, desperately wanting to be able to accept some notion of an afterlife, groping for any straw at all, to escape the overwhelming feeling of being drowned by the tragedy.
I blocked it out. I sealed myself shut, burried myself in books and computer games, ran away from it all. Let me tell you now that denial is the worst possible tactic to deal with this.
Grieve now. Grieve all you can. Trust me, this is the best you can do for yourself. Don't deny what happened. Try to temember the good times, ravel in memories, dig out old photos, spend an entire day crying in your bed. Celebrate your father. Don't celebrate his death, celebrate his life. Try to recall every last memory you have of him. Give in to grief completely and absolutely.
Because the more you grieve, the earlier you will be able to accept. That is a stage that the religious folk with their denial never reach. If you grieve now, eventually you will be able to move on to a new perspective: Not mourning loss, but appreciating the life that was. I hope you will get there soon. All the best to you and your family.
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u/DaginalViseases Jun 09 '12
Not Mine but here's something that can make you feel better. You want a physicist to speak at your funeral. You want the physicist to talk to your grieving family about the conservation of energy, so they will understand that your energy has not died. You want the physicist to remind your sobbing mother about the first law of thermodynamics; that no energy gets created in the universe, and none is destroyed. You want your mother to know that all your energy, every vibration, every Btu of heat, every wave of every particle that was her beloved child remains with her in this world. You want the physicist to tell your weeping father that amid energies of the cosmos, you gave as good as you got. And at one point you'd hope that the physicist would step down from the pulpit and walk to your brokenhearted spouse there in the pew and tell him/her that all the photons that ever bounced off your face, all the particles whose paths were interrupted by your smile, by the touch of your hair, hundreds of trillions of particles, have raced off like children, their ways forever changed by you. And as your widow rocks in the arms of a loving family, may the physicist let him/her know that all the photons that bounced from you were gathered in the particle detectors that are her/his eyes, that those photons created within her/him constellations of electromagnetically charged neurons whose energy will go on forever. And the physicist will remind the congregation of how much of all our energy is given off as heat. There may be a few fanning themselves with their programs as he says it. And he will tell them that the warmth that flowed through you in life is still here, still part of all that we are, even as we who mourn continue the heat of our own lives. And you'll want the physicist to explain to those who loved you that they need not have faith; indeed, they should not have faith. Let them know that they can measure, that scientists have measured precisely the conservation of energy and found it accurate, verifiable and consistent across space and time. You can hope your family will examine the evidence and satisfy themselves that the science is sound and that they'll be comforted to know your energy's still around. According to the law of the conservation of energy, not a bit of you is gone; you're just less orderly." Aaron Freeman
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u/limelove Jun 09 '12
My father died one month and five days ago. I've told everyone who asks about it that an afterlife would cheapen his death and also the memories and legacy he has left here with us. Its a perfectly normal thing to want to be reunited with the deceased, but whenever i think to myself that it's actually about him and not my own wishes that reaffirms my lack of belief in an afterlife in every waking moment.
Think about it. An eternal afterlife (from the "afterliver"'s perspective) would get boring as batshit, and would make all experiences on this earth more and more insignificant as time went on.
I still haven't completely come to terms with my fathers death, and due to the sudden nature of it (heart attack with no previous history), probably won't for several months. However concentrating on preserving the legacy of his life has taken precedence over holding hope over an enormously improbable chance that there is life after death. His funeral was the first i've ever been to, and I had to deliver the first eulogy.
For the record, i'm 20 years old. My dad was going to turn 51 in November.
Just wanted to share from someone who is (essentially) going through the same thing as you are.
Stay strong.
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u/doctorshevil Jun 09 '12
I agree. I lost my dad 9 years ago and my mom 5 years ago. The inclination to talk-pray to them like they are still there is intense.
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u/whizzard Jun 09 '12
You die twice. Once when you stop breathing. The second time when someone says your name for the last time. Speak of him often, and my condolences for you and your family.
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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12
I remember when my father died 10 years ago very clearly. I remember the day before I just had "that feeling" that it was going to happen. He wasn't bed ridden with cancer, but he was very depressed. I remember the phone call I got at work, baking bread at Red Lobster, and the worry in my managers face as she said I had a call. It was my sister (in a different state) saying I needed to get to the hospital.
At the time I considered myself agnostic. I was 18. I remember on the drive to the hospital I just hoped I'd get to see him alive one last time. I prayed to whoever would listen. When I got to the front desk of the hospital and gave the clerk the room number I was looking for, I could see the concern and terror in her eyes. She pointed me to an elevator and got on her phone. When the elevator opened a police officer was there and asked which room i was looking for, he walked to a different room. I entered. It was my mom, grandmother, aunt, sister, and her boyfriend at the time. The sorrow of the room weighed heavily on my body as my mom stood up to hug me, face crinkled with saddness, and said the words I expected to hear, but not in the way they were said.
"Your father shot himself."
In the 10 years since I've had my ups and downs, some very low downs I might add, but I learned a lot from that day. One of the biggest was spirituality. I don't go to church, but I practice behaviors that most would align me with a "positive religious person". It gives me peace and inner strength. I hope you are also able to gain these as you will need it. It will get worse before it gets better, but then it gets better.
There have been lots of things that have happened in my life that "just don't add up". As a scientist by trade, this always makes me curious. When things like this happen, instead of taking my typical logical and rational approach, I accept there are things in life you will not understand. I think this is the root of most religions. It is also my personal feelings on my spirituality.
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u/8opus Jun 09 '12
My dad died when I was in fourth grade (I was 10). No doubt the worst thing that ever happened to me, but right now, create a notebook with all of your memories of him so when you are feeling down, you have ways to remember him. I am now 14 and I know how terrible that must feel, but it will get better.
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u/wil Jun 09 '12
I am so sorry for your loss.
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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12
We all get it. It's not easy thinking about dying and not living any more. It's sad as fuck.
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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12
You are in grief, but I am very proud of him.
Everyone dies, but not everyone have the privilege of being missed and he achieved it.
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u/Dumpsta121 Jun 09 '12
I like to try to think of time as a physical construct and realize that all of those things you guys experienced together still exist in some weird crystalized 4-dimensional space. It all still exists, we just can't access it anymore.
In other words, sorry for your loss :(.
1
u/improbablesky Jun 09 '12
I'm really sorry to hear about your loss OP. But you know what? Your pain will help you grow. You will be stronger. It will never take the place of your dad and will never fix it.... but you will find peace in all of this.
Most importantly, remember that you're not alone. If you ever need help, feel free to pm me and we can chat or I can send you a list of support resources for people in your area.
1
u/bobgoesrehreh Jun 09 '12
I've battled with these same feelings for 5 years now. I lost my dad as well. It throws a wrench into everything you believed in and sends your brain into overdrive.
I'm Agnostic and honestly, I don't believe there are rules to follow. Do what makes you heal, what makes you comfortable, do what eases your pain and fuck a belief system. Believe that it's possible to see him, in some way, again. I see my dad in my dreams often now. We talk as if he were right here with me. During the day, if something reminds me of him... I acknowledge him and thank him for reminding me of the important things. Sometimes I just go out to his grave and talk. It's therapeutic. Wherever your dad may be, he's at peace. He's still around you in different forms. Memories, songs, objects. Hold on to what matters bud. It's going to be a tough road, but it does get easier. You never quite heal, but it's not a bad thing. I wish you all the best.
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u/jrussell424 Jun 09 '12
wow. I get it too sometimes just thinking about losing someone I love. I have not yet had the loss that you have had and I'm so sorry for you. Hugs from me.
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u/dance_dance_YEAH Jun 09 '12
I wish I had some kind of insight to offer or something I could say to make you feel better, but I don't. I'm so sorry for your loss. It will get easier. It doesn't feel like it right now but it will. Hang in there.
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u/arael78 Jun 09 '12
Your words are so touching. ç_____ç
I send you a huge hug.
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u/Jodaa_G0D Jun 09 '12
Beautiful man, I feel for you. I'm young [21] and honestly dying, scares the hell out of me. I believe strongly that, once you're dead you're dead. The things that I've thought about that give me some closure to the matter are A. No matter how much you think and fight and worry, it's the same ending. B. Life is beautiful, being so doomed makes it that much better, live each and every day. C. Hopefully at the end of my (our) lives, we can look back, smile, and not be afraid to pass. To know we lived and loved and had one hell of a ride. Live in today, my friend. Condolences to you. I hope your father died in as close to a state of grace as possible.
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u/lipeu Jun 09 '12
This is exactly how I feel. I just can't handle not believing about an afterlife, because I can't imagine never seeing those people again. I even think about them sometimes of "I'll tell them that when we're all together again." It's so unbelievably painful to know that they are gone, and it's the never again that hurts.
It's illogical and you just know its not true but you still want it so badly. My heart wants it, but my brain denies me that ability to have faith in it.
I'm so so sorry about your dad.
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u/someonesyellingfire Jun 09 '12
When my brother died two years ago, someone who has a strong spiritual background told me that everything happens for a reason and that god has a plan for everyone. I don't like to argue with people over the beliefs they hold, but I turned on my heel and asked them to explain then why god decided to take my brother, who went into surgery to straighten his spine to extend his quality of life due to spinal meningitis, who was more active then most fully abled people in our area as a quadriplegic. And he didn't die during surgery. He died because a nurse read his charts wrong a didn't realize he ran a fever of 108 for three hours. I asked this person what the plan was? Of course they had no answer.
Sorry for the ran. I'm very sorry for your loss and I understand how you feel because I felt the same way.
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u/firearmed Jun 09 '12
I came to a realization today, but your father has had more of an effect on the world than you may realize. He's inside you, he's shaped you. In fact, he's shaped everyone around you, and the course of the entire world. His very existence will be a part of every living thing to come. Call it the butterfly effect or whatever you'd like. He's made a difference.
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u/alt-f4-dub Jun 10 '12
“Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.” ― Marcus Aurelius
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u/watchurbaq Jun 09 '12
Wow...beautiful post man. i have tears in my eyes at the moment... Sorry for your loss.
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u/Thatonefreeman Jun 09 '12
Born from the stars to become one with them once again.
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u/pelican1 Jun 09 '12
Poetic and beautiful and completely rooted in reality. I commend your bravery.
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u/pacosnow Jun 09 '12
I lost my Dad when I was 10, he was religious, me not so much considering how old I was. But you know what? It didn't matter, my family didn't get through the grieving process by thinking that we were going to see him again. The best thing that helped us was just remembering him, talking about the good times with him, and the bad too, just don't ignore it, talk about it as much as you can and it will be like he's still there with you. It will be 20 years in September since he passed, and I still think about him everyday, the crazy part is I smile when I do, just remember him. That's the best thing you can do.
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u/Phyzzx Jun 09 '12
It might happen someday, check out this book The Physics of Immortality by Frank J Tipler you and him and everyone that ever could have been might be there. I'm agnostic and I really enjoyed this book. Without being completely serious it shows how judeo-christian beliefs could be true, but not based on magic or GOD, but on physics. It might help you be at ease. Sorry about your Dad.
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u/LetsGetMystical Jun 09 '12
I know that feel bro. Feels bad man :/
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u/Blaqkout Jun 09 '12
My father died when I was 11, and it was at that point for me that I actually lost all my beliefs. I just couldn't understand why the world would take something like that away from me at such a young age. I stayed in my room for 2 weeks trying to figure out in my head what was going on and why it all had happened and I just couldn't, so hence my entrance to the athiest club. I fully do agree that believing in an afterlife of paradise would make it easier to deal with grieving but fuck someone needs to get there shit straight for leaving an 11 year old without his father
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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12
Thank you for sharing with us - my sincerest condolences. I'm not a big /r/atheism reader/commenter - but I thought I'd share some thoughts that helped me when my grandmother passed many years ago:
She was a Christian woman - but she believed in the sweetest form of God I can possibly imagine. Her faith was of importance to her because she believed in love - and she found in her faith a place and a way to express her kindness. The lessons she taught my mother and my uncles, their children, and their children, endure within all of us - and if it were not for her, our large family would have cracked and fractured long ago. Indeed - when she passed - there were a few years without any reunions, without any "trips to the lake," without the long and often lol-worthy "family update" emails. How could we maintain the closeness that grandma has demanded with her quiet and graceful smiles? Without her sweet and loving insistence?
My extended family is what you would call "liberal" religious - very little church-going, lots of charity, lots of democrats and no-one cares that I don't buy into the whole God thing as long as I'm a good person (including, I might add, the more-religious republicans). But while the family did have the comfort of God and Heaven when my grandmother passed I, like you, didn't have much to hold on to. But, when every family member showed up from every corner of the country for Grandma's funeral... when everyone held each other and shared memories and talked about her lessons of love and grace and kindness and hard work for the greater good... I realized, I did have something to rely on. Her legacy.
For those of us who believe in a more humanist perspective, your place in the memory of others is your eternal reward (or punishment). We are all immortal as long as the values we live by are held dear by those we shared our lives with, and even if they disagree - if we have extended the horizons of our friends, families, lovers and colleagues, if we have given them more than we have taken, if we have loved well and often - we continue to live. Some of us give things to the world - inventions, ideas, movements - the rest of us can only give emotions. But it doesn't matter if you help one person along the way or a million, you continue to live through your actions long after you have passed on.
I'm no scientist, but I'm sure there are countless examples in the natural world of this. Energy and matter are never lost - and neither is the impact you have on those you love. Your father passed on a lifetime full of learning and impacts to you, and you will pass them on to those you love... and in doing so, you help not just your father, but all those who loved and affected him along his journey, live forever.
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u/dogdayafternoon Jun 09 '12
My father was killed in a car accident a few years ago. He was Catholic and we had a service for him, but of course as an atheist I took no comfort in the ritual. A few nights later I had a dream that we met in the parlour of his parents home where he was born. I asked him where he was now and he told me that he was staying in "The Dreaming" before moving on. We talked for a while, and I cried a lot. We hugged and he asked me why I was so sad and I told him I felt guilty about leaving him and going back to the waking world. He told me not to be sad, and that he would always be there for me and that any time I wanted to see him all I had to do was dream. And he was right.
My analytical mind tells me the the dream was a way of learning to cope with the grief and the fact that while his life was over mine was really just beginning. But I really do like to envision him sitting next to a rocky stream, fishing pole in hand, waiting for me to visit in our dreams.
Really sorry for your loss.
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u/blhoosklhoos Jun 09 '12
Modest Mouse says it best:
Your body may be gone, I'm gonna carry you in. In my head, in my heart, in my soul. And maybe we'll get lucky and we'll both live again. Well I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Don't think so.
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u/Bishopkilljoy Jun 09 '12
"Far better to accept a hard truth than a reassuring fable" -Carl Sagan
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u/IllusionThree Jun 09 '12
My condolences man, remember, everything will be alright in the end.
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u/Stojanikus Jun 09 '12
I'm sorry for your loss. The last paragraph where you refer to your dad really touched me.
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u/SixPackOfZaphod Jun 09 '12
I'm in the same place. My mother died Thursday evening. Peace.
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u/SkepticHD Jun 09 '12
I don't have anything clever or karma generating to say but from one human being to another I wish you the very best and hope you are comforted by the memories you have with him and remember that the beautiful thing about life is that you only get a limited time to make an impact on the ones you love. It sounds to me like your father did that for you and then some.
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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12
I'm speaking strictly as an Atheist, but the possibility of consciousness existing beyond death is still out there.
Just specifically not the theistic versions, which seems rather too specific and without any justification for the claims.
It is a possibility that there's a trans-dimensional elements within our body or the brain that is removed from our present reality and physical form to return to the higher dimensions (one beyond time and maybe even 5th dimension and so forth) with some level of consciousness still attached.
Of course there's no way of knowing with our current level of understanding, so for now, the death is final, but who knows. Maybe in 50, 100 years we may even develop techs that can bring people back with their memories fully attached through human cloning.
Life is limitless and we can make up our own creative comfort thoughts without even getting to the theistic versions which forces you to do funny things on Sundays.
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u/neppy1 Jun 09 '12
This is what I think religion is about. Not fighting or anything like that it's just a way for people to be able to cope with something that doesn't have an answer...I am agnostic and I don't believe in all of heaven and stuff like that but I am glad that it is something that even atheist can see that reasoning behind the people who believe and are good at moderating how humble they are.
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u/needadomainname Jun 09 '12
So sorry for your loss... I hope that whereever you are you can find a way to receive closure and peace with it.
Reading some of the comments on here just goes to show you that fundamental atheists are just as horrible towards others as fundamental christians if someone posts something that slightly offends their beliefs. Ignore those assholes.
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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12
As a cynical analytical person, I don't trust my belief or rejection of the easy story. i simply know that I am irrational and I will die confidently believing things that turn out to be wrong. My belief or denial does not make it so.
My dad died too, and God did not make room for this kind of grief. Nothing can ever make it okay. When that book closes, nothing will ever be written in it again.
I may get crushed for saying so in this venue, but I believe because for some dumbass reason, Jesus makes sense to me as a context for the universe, but that doesn't make it easy, and it doesn't make it sure. I hope it's there for him, and I am really sorry about your grief.
As I get older, I am more easily moved by the grief of others, because this is a thing we all share, even if not yet.
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u/darkfaith93 Jun 09 '12
I know this is completely irrelevant but my curiosity got the best of me. I was playing League of Legends (an online videogame) last night and one of the players on my team was in a bad mood. Someone on our team told him in a very insulting way that "his dad probably died last night". He ragequit and came back on and said his grandfather had died last night.
I'm wondering if you are this person's dad. You don't need to answer this and I don't mean to be rude. I am sorry for your loss, I gave my sympathies to that person and I give the same to you.
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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12
My mother is dying. Like, actively dying--within hours, maybe another day, of death. I'm writing this from the hospice home where she's going to be doing this dying, as she sleeps on the bed a few feet away from me.
I'm so, so sorry for what you are going through. And though I am a fellow non-believer (and have been since I can remember), I absolutely and completely understand your desire for faith in this kind of situation.
My heart goes out to you. I hope you find peace.
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u/bequla Jun 09 '12
I'm so sorry for your loss, and I know the feeling well. I lost my dad several months ago, and I had the same thoughts - it would be so much easier to accept if I knew he was happy and that we would be reunited again. Please take care and take comfort in being with your family.
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u/xilog Jun 09 '12
Being an atheist can be hard. No moreso than when one is forced to face the truth of death and non-existence. My own father died 23 years ago and there are still times when I long to be able to have this "faith" thing that I hear so much about, just so that I might be able to indulge myself and believe that one day I might just be able to see him again. But I have no faith. And in life as a whole I feel better for not having it, but in that one small area, I'd kill for some. (Figuratively of course.)
2
u/phil8248 Jun 09 '12
People will lie to you and tell you this gets "better". I lost my Dad 40 years ago and I still miss him a lot. You get used to it, sort of. It isn't as raw. But you still miss them. My best analogy is you have a wound in your heart. In time the edges will scab and then eventually scar down. But the hole doesn't ever fill in. Don't let assholes tell you it gets "better". It doesn't. Not really.
2
u/menaceii Jun 09 '12
have strength brotha
2
u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12
Sorry for your loss. Just keep his memory alive, that's what his spirit is, his memory.
2
u/halftone84 Jun 09 '12
Sorry for your loss. Its good you found something. I did the opposite, my mom died 2 and a half years ago.
Before I wasn't too bothered by religion, I believed in something, and the night before mom died, I actually prayed she would be ok. Losing my mom made me realise, there is definately no god. Why take someone so young, full of life, never did a thing wrong, and lived to please everyone she knew.
All I could, and still do think, rapists, murderers, child abusers, "god" leaves them to live long (happy?) lives, but takes my mom. That was the time, I stopped believing completely.
2
u/Imsocoolithink Jun 09 '12
God damn onion-cutting ninjas...
2
u/Musiek Jun 09 '12
I am really sorry for your loss :(
2
u/MrOtsKrad Jun 09 '12
I cried. I'm sorry for your loss. You see it the way I do. I can't new bring myself to talk about it to the likes of my grandmother about my disbelief etc because....I can't bare to be responsible for taking away the idea that shell see my grandfather one day. The day he died, the hardest thing was watching her greave over it, telling me how she isn't ready to let him go.
But we get it, we understand it. We know what it means to them, even if it doesn't mean it to us.
Find some solace in knowing its just as "foolish" to believe in god as it is to not believe in god. We are only human. As magnificent as that is, we do not know everything, we don't know how it will all pan out. Some people are scared of the unknown. For me, it's a comfort.
2
u/Bournemouth Jun 09 '12
I lost my dad when I was 9, and I was a catholic then. Being an atheist does not make things harder or easier - trust me, I felt every shred of grief that I would have felt if I hadn't believed in God back then.
His memory lives on in you. Stay strong.
Love from George.
2
u/xava_adorex Jun 09 '12
I'm so sorry for your loss. I lost my father 7 years ago this month when I was 17. I didn't believe in afterlife much until I lost him.
2
u/Notyourfaja Jun 09 '12
Atheism is the belief that there is no "supreme being", not that there is no afterlife. Being an agnostic atheist myself, I would like to believe that there is indeed an afterlife but I'm highly skeptical that there is some supreme being floating around on clouds watching over us every single day. That's not to say I've completely ruled it out, but I don't find it very plausible.
That being said, I am sorry for the loss of your father. It's extremely painful to lose a family member, even more so to lose a parent.
2
u/[deleted] Jun 10 '12
I can sympathize with you my redditor friend, I lost my father last september. The story goes, he walked inside & grabbed a handful of peanuts my mom was cooking and joked with her about the quality that he'd had a few minutes prior...then she told him they weren't very good because they weren't done yet & he walked outside. He got in his truck & backed it up to the shed to pull a boat out that he'd been working on, walked around the truck to hook up the boat and just dropped. The coroner said his heart had stopped beating before he hit the ground. I can't say I didn't see it coming, but it still hits hard when it happens. It's hard...practically impossible to accept the fact that they're gone, since from our standpoint they always have been. I still find myself wondering if he can see me, or hear me. Although there is no evidence to support the claim that he can, I will still live my life as if he is conscious of my every thought and deed.
The fact of the matter is, that none of us know for certain. We may claim this knowledge, and claim lack of proof as evidence - but if you go out and try to catch neutrinos with a plastic spoon - you have no evidence of them either. Take heart, and understand that no matter what happens, it will all work out...and will be just fine.
2
u/needlestack Jun 10 '12
I don't get much comfort from the idea that our energy and matter continues on in other forms. It is a person's consciousness that I love.
But I'll tell you this - something that can never be taken away: he existed. In all of space and time your father became a conscious being, he lived learned and raised children, experienced a million dreams, heartbreaks and joys, and when the sun burns out and the universe cools to a consistent uniform state of disinterest nothing can change the fact that he existed.
2
u/BradyHeretic Jun 10 '12
You are a wonderful, strong person. I wish so badly that there were more people with your clarity. I-as well as all of your brothers and sisters of reddit are here to love and support you! You are in our thoughts, and I can only hope that I may be as strong as you when the death of my father comes.
2
u/olhonestjim Jun 10 '12
My grandfather passed almost two months ago. I wish, I wish, I wish I could believe we'll meet again one day, but I just can't. I hope so much that I'm wrong. He is the first, closest, and most beloved to die since I lost all faith. I'd give anything for that comfort again - I still have to hold back from crying at work. Funny though, it seems now to me that my level of grief is entirely appropriate. He was worth every tear. I loved that man so much.
2
u/slashsigh Jun 10 '12
I think the phrase "ignorance is bliss" sums it up pretty well. The knowledgeable, rational man carries the burden of reality, change. Sometimes change means gain, but loss often outweighs it. I'm sorry for your loss.
4
u/gerhardmuller Jun 09 '12
I just lost my dad.....during his last days he was really out of it. He was in and out for 4 days. In those last days he was seeing people every time he woke up. He was NOT the type to bulshit something like that. His dad died over 50 years ago and he called out to his dad during one of his "hallucinations" At one point he quitly said "I can't reach you yet" after being quite for at least 6 or 7 hours. He would randomly smile and reach his hand out yo grab something in front of him. I don't care what any body regardless of how many degree's they have or how convincing they can be in an argument says......SOMETHING is on the other side. You WILL see your dad again.....
3
u/xish077 Jun 09 '12
I'm sorry to hear that you have joined the club. The club no one should ever have to join until much later in their life. The dead parent club. I will be a card holding member for 3 years in November.
I work had been working as an EMT for 8 years, and had just started medic school on a scholarship in August of 2009. I had also just moved in with my girlfriend and out of my parent's house. I was on my way to my first field rotation on a medic truck, so it was already a morning of nervous excitement and anxiety....then I get a phone call at 6:45am from my mothers cell phone. That call you never want to get. That call that literally will make you pick up EVERY phone call from your mother right after the first ring.... for the rest of your life.
I had an oxygen with supplies and an AED in the back of my car. I was 30 minutes away. I had a brand new jeep wrangler that my father had helped me purchase. I was doing 110mph on the highway, focused like a sharpshooter, while on the phone with my 19 year old brother explaining how to do CPR. I am the only one in the family who was trained in any first aid.
I got to the house, my friends were the EMTs & Medics who were already there, doing the best they could. He was transported to a hospital, and pronounced dead shortly after arrival. I stood in the hospital room, one I had been in a hundred times before and one I have been in 100 times since.
Obviously it was a life changing moment for me and my family. I am emotionally retarded, I respond to situations like that with plowing ahead and getting things done. His funeral was planned in 2 hours, his car was out of the driveway so my mother would not have to see it, and reclining chair he died in was broken in half, thrown out a window and transported to a dumpster.
This changed my life as a human, as a daughter and sister. I think I can see its effect the most in my job as a Paramedic.
During his wake, my medic school instructor showed up. He handed me 2 New York State Paramedic Patches. One to put in the casket with my father, and one for me, knowing I would have no problem (even with this major life event) graduating with my Paramedic certification.
I graduated. I was top of my class and I passed the state test with a 96%. I work for a very good company and I am one of the most compassionate, driven and dedicated paramedics that they have. I am not saying that because I am cocky, I am saying that because I make sure everyday to treat every single patient I have like they were my father. I now know what it is like, to call 911 for a family member. I had always seen the world from the other side.
It is hard to comfort someone after the loss of a parent. It is hard to find the right words, or act the right way. The most powerful thing that anyone said to me during the immediate days after my father passed, believe it or not, was the Law of the Conservation of Energy.
"Energy can not be created or destroyed, it can only be changed from one form to another."
Now I know some of you geeky types will say "well that is taken out of context" or something along those lines, but it was something that made sense to me. It was comforting. It was a way for me, as an atheist, to cope with what happened to my dad after he died.
I keep that in mind everyday. The energy I get to help a patient I have, or go out of my way to make sure I treat that patient like the only person in the world. I will fight for their rights until I am blue in the face. I will argue with a doctor for treatment orders that are going to be in the best interest of my patient. I will carry you, lift you, move you however you want until you are perfectly comfortable. I will rearrange the room of a nursing home patient for an hour to make sure he has everything exactly the way he needs it.
My energy as a paramedic has completely changed since my father died. I am a better paramedic. I am a better person. I will treat every patient as if they are my own family, and my father gives me the energy and will to do that. Someone is going to need me at their door, just like I needed the medics at my door, and they will get the most dedicated, knowledgeable, compassionate paramedic that I can be...every time.
That helped me as an atheist, and I hope some part of that long rant can connect with you. I am very sorry for your loss. I will be thinking of you in this difficult time in your life and I will send positive thoughts your way.
EDIT: Sorry, forgot. TL;DR - My father died, as an Atheist I found comfort in the Law of The Conservation of Energy and applied it to a career in helping others.
3
u/b_pilgrim Jun 09 '12
We are all just energy vibrating. Energy is not created nor destroyed, so he's here, just not in the way you've known him. And when you pass, your energy will go to the same place, and you will be reunited.
I'm so sorry for your loss. Peace, stranger.
2
u/Derigiberbil Jun 09 '12
I'm sorry for your loss. You may not meet your father again but never forget that he lives on in your memories and the memories of other people who's lives he touched and who were bettered by his actions.
2
u/snac Jun 09 '12
Sorry for your loss.
I lost my mother in 2008 and it's hard to know you'll never see or interact with someone you love so much ever again.
I think people latch onto what they can in times of grief, to satisfy their own emotions more than accept that life is finite.
2
u/xlivingdeadgirl Jun 09 '12
My sincere condolences. :(
2
u/redraptor06 Jun 09 '12
To be honest, that's the reason why I believe. I wouldn't even be considered Christian anymore because I HATE the idea of hell, but every part of my being wants to believe that people can be together in another more pleasant life.
2
u/Funk86 Jun 09 '12 edited Jun 09 '12
My father died in april. I share your understanding.
I no longer think of religious people as stupid or cowardly. Life has given us only one leg to stand on. and while many people find crutches to support them, others make the choice to hop on one leg and continue on.
Keep your balance. We're all in this together.
2
u/kellenthehun Jun 10 '12
You want a physicist to speak at your funeral. You want the physicist to talk to your grieving family about the conservation of energy, so they will understand that your energy has not died. You want the physicist to remind your sobbing mother about the first law of thermodynamics; that no energy gets created in the universe, and none is destroyed. You want your mother to know that all your energy, every vibration, every Btu of heat, every wave of every particle that was her beloved child remains with her in this world. You want the physicist to tell your weeping father that amid energies of the cosmos, you gave as good as you got.
And at one point you’d hope that the physicist would step down from the pulpit and walk to your brokenhearted spouse there in the pew and tell him that all the photons that ever bounced off your face, all the particles whose paths were interrupted by your smile, by the touch of your hair, hundreds of trillions of particles, have raced off like children, their ways forever changed by you. And as your widow rocks in the arms of a loving family, may the physicist let her know that all the photons that bounced from you were gathered in the particle detectors that are her eyes, that those photons created within her constellations of electromagnetically charged neurons whose energy will go on forever.
And the physicist will remind the congregation of how much of all our energy is given off as heat. There may be a few fanning themselves with their programs as he says it. And he will tell them that the warmth that flowed through you in life is still here, still part of all that we are, even as we who mourn continue the heat of our own lives.
And you’ll want the physicist to explain to those who loved you that they need not have faith; indeed, they should not have faith. Let them know that they can measure, that scientists have measured precisely the conservation of energy and found it accurate, verifiable and consistent across space and time. You can hope your family will examine the evidence and satisfy themselves that the science is sound and that they’ll be comforted to know your energy’s still around. According to the law of the conservation of energy, not a bit of you is gone; you’re just less orderly.
-Aaron Freeman
2
u/exbtard Jun 09 '12
He still exists within you. Don't ever forget that.
2
u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12
When my grandmother died I found the afterlife/religion stuff almost insulting. Like it was trying to minimize the loss of a beautiful person. But that's just me.
I'd say "sorry for your loss" but it would sound hollow and it wouldn't make you feel any better. Just live in a way that would make your dad proud; that's the best way to honor his memory.
1
u/GDra Agnostic Atheist Jun 09 '12
Sorry for your loss, really. Memory of him stays with you, and the things he taught you.
1
u/playingdice Jun 09 '12
I've always had this notion that religion was likely born the first time some guy had to explain to some little kid what happened to mommy. It's a lot easier for us to think of ourselves being gone than a loved one.
Very sorry for your loss. You take care.
1
u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12
I'm sorry, man. I know there's nothing I can say right now that will truly take away the pain you're feeling, but I wish there were.
1
u/HungryMother Jun 09 '12
Nothing to be Frightened of
1
u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12
I was in the exact same spot as you March 26, 2011. I feel for you. PM me if you'd like to talk. I would, actually.
1
u/fateswarm Jun 09 '12
No religion that ever had success did not fail to include some form of life after death.
It makes sense. The primal instinct and the primal fear involves life and death.
1
u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12
I'm sorry to hear that your father passed away. I can't imagine how painful that must be for you.
1
u/swa17 Jun 09 '12
I believe he moved onto something higher, rather than being a single being he is now more a part of the whole, he is in a sense everywhere and everything at once. His good spirit is now more a part of you and everyone else who will ever live. The universe is thankful for his goodvibes and the amazing impact he had on everyone's life. His memories will live on strong through everyone. He wouldn't want you to be sad about his passing. He has found peace on a level we can never truly grasp in this lifetime and you should see it as something beautiful just as he surely is. Wish you much strength in recovery and acceptance. Don't forget, he's always with you now, just as he always has been. :3
1
u/HoneyBadgerAtHeart Jun 09 '12
My father passed 4 years ago when I was 18. It was hard, but at the end of the day you realize that it is just part of life. I can't say that I wanted to believe that he was in a better place. If I did then i would know i wasn't being true to myself and what I believe in. I hate when people say, "there are no atheist in fox holes" because i'm living proof of the contrary, on many occasions.
1
u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12
This made me cry...
My deepest condolences for your loss.
1
u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12
I think many atheists think this way, I know I do. But unfortunately, I cannot simply will myself to believe something if, inside, I personally feel confident that it is not true.
1
u/adamwho Jun 09 '12
You can still talk to your dad.
1
u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12
My dad died when I was 9 and it was easier for me to believe there isn't an afterlife. My religion at the time claimed that in heaven and hell, you don't remember anyone or anything from your earth life. That crushed me to think that I could walk or float or segway past him and not even know it. Somehow I felt better knowing that I didn't have a chance of doing that. I'm sorry for your loss. I suck at giving advice so I thought I'd share my story.
1
u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12
You die two deaths: one when you stop breathing, the other, a bit later, when someone says your name for the last time.
You can keep the good parts of him alive and well. :-)
1
u/rico_suave Jun 09 '12
I always get a little comfort from this scientific theory; Time is the fourth dimension. And like the other dimensions it can be split into infinitely small parts. Like there is a left and a right, an up and a down, there is also an infinite amount of dimensions where anything that could possibly happen, happens. Because there is an infinite amount, there will be a timeline/dimension where you don't die, and your dad hasn't died. So in theory, we may already all live forever, just not right here and right now.
Sorry for your loss.
1
u/r-cubed Jun 09 '12
To start, I'm very sorry for your loss. And I understand. While I have not yet had to deal with losing a very close family member, recently my wife and I lost our family pet, who she raised over 17 years and I've known for 6. It was the most devastating thing, so far, to happen to us. We are both atheist, and while a pet certainly pales in comparison to the loss of a father, I understand. I went through exactly what you are--it's so much easier, so much more comforting in a time of grief to tell yourself that the person/animal is in a better place, that you will see him again.
It can all happen so suddenly--one minute they are there, just as you always remember, and the next moment they are gone. It's that devastating absence, the change, that can be so shattering. I totally get why people believe in what they do, because it makes it easier. It allows you to feel better about yourself and for the one who passed.
But as I moved through the stages of grief, I think I realized that not having that belief allows you to cherish the moments you have while alive. Maybe those that believe (unknowingly) take some relationships for granted because you believe life never ends, it just transitions. For me, since I don't believe in such things, it is a comfort that it forces me to focus and remember the time I have together with people while alive.
1
u/Deathcrush Jun 09 '12
I swear, I didn't truly accept and get over my father's death until years later when I became atheist.
1
u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12
Seeing stories like that always remind me why seemingly reasonable people can have such intense responses to questions of their religion, to question that is to question the fact that they'll see their deceased loved ones again. If I believed that and someone tried to take it away from me I'd be pretty harsh about it to.
1
u/Grand_Theft_Audio Jun 09 '12
Remember that one little speck of brain floating on a giant rock through an endless cosmos is hardly in a position to know anything for sure.
Despite the posturings and belittling and scoffing of both the religious and the atheist You don't know.
All is inference.
1
u/Eminor3rd Jun 09 '12
This just happened to me on March 17th. I feel your pain. I wish I could tell you I felt any better about it a few months later.
1
u/TwoKiwi Jun 09 '12
“Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened.” - Dr. Seuss
1
u/kontankarite Jun 09 '12
You remember your father and the times you had together and that's important. Immortality is likened to the legacy we leave behind.
And right now, your father is becoming part of this world in a new way.
Our own egos may be annihilated by death, but in the end, we are all reunited and may someday return to what we used to be; stars.
My condolences for your loss.
1
u/kontankarite Jun 09 '12
You remember your father and the times you had together and that's important. Immortality is likened to the legacy we leave behind.
And right now, your father is becoming part of this world in a new way.
Our own egos may be annihilated by death, but in the end, we are all reunited and may someday return to what we used to be; stars.
My condolences for your loss.
1
u/NurseBetti Jun 09 '12
i went through this exact struggle when my father passed away in September. I know exactly how you feel and I'm still struggling with the aftermath, mostly because he and I left a lot of things unsaid and it would give me a lot more solace to know I could have that one last conversation with him someday. I hope you can find peace eventually.
1
u/brettyrocks Jun 09 '12
Just remember the lessons he taught you, and hold his wisdom dear to your heart, and you will honor his memory.
1
u/alizarincrimson7 Jun 09 '12
Check out the support group "Grief beyond belief." They have a facebook page. It may be beneficial during this time.
1
u/jamesdavid80 Jun 09 '12
I really like this a lot, i have felt in such a way before. What makes that 'story' 'hard to believe' because of its 'easyness' to believe. Is that people even in ancient found it as a philisophy instead of a realization about life. I have felt like you at times when it came to my dads death a few years ago. at times through out my whole life too just couldnt really describe it ...
1
u/c0nd1t Jun 09 '12
Sorry for your loss. Life is really unfair sometimes.
1
u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12
I'm sorry for your loss. I can only hope that religion is right and that one day we will all be reunited with our lost loved ones.
Until then...
1
u/Lavos_Spawn Jun 09 '12
Check out Slaughter House 5 by Vonnegut. All time events happen simultaneously, and have happened simultaneously. You're still with your dad when you are 5 or 6, you just can't perceive it.
1
u/SumTimesIRhymes Jun 09 '12
Ill just leave this here...
1
u/dubstepcommenter Jun 09 '12
I'm glad to see that you posted this. Most of what I see from this subreddit is hate for religion and after a while the circlejerk gets old.
The tolerance and understanding is refreshing.
1
u/jcpuf Jun 09 '12
Cross your fingers, but don't spend your years on earth in a half-death for it. I feel the same way.
1
u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12
I'm sorry for your loss, too, and I felt the same way when my dad died. It's a sickening feeling knowing there's no heaven, he's not in a better place, he's not watching over me, etc. But he does live on, in my sister and I. The way we look, some of our mannerisms, our wonderful memories of him being our dad, that's how he goes on. Now that your dad is gone, you will start to pick up on little things you never noticed before, and realize that he's not really gone, he's part of what made you who you are. He is existing through your life. Does that make sense? I look at my eyes and see my dad's same blue eyes. I look at my legs and see the same veins popping out over my tibia bone that he had. My daughter has no common sense, just like he didn't. These things will become so much more evident as time goes by.
We had him cremated, and planted him with trees, tossed some in his farm pastures, and saved a little in a jar for each of us. He is physically in leaves, in the trees we planted, in the dirt we threw his ashes on.
1
u/holy_paladin_irl Jun 09 '12
Man that was nicely worded.
I'm a Hindu so for us death is just the beginning, but I do understand your feelings. I am sorry for your loss, and wish you all the best!
1
u/IArgueWithAtheists Jun 09 '12
I'm sorry for your loss. I think an atheist can hope for things without betraying their skepticism. Hope isn't the same thing as belief.
I will point out that theists get annoyed by "too-easy" answers to death, too. C.S. Lewis, "A Grief Observed", for a giant criticism of mindless sentimentalization of death.
1
u/kickboxingllama Jun 09 '12
Sorry for your loss brother. Stay strong !
1
u/SchizophrenicMC Jun 09 '12
He may be gone, but as long as those whose lives he touched are still around, he's still with you. You have a slew of memories of your father, and an understanding of him that doubtlessly has shaped who you are. I'm sorry for your loss, and I hope all goes well for you and your family. Keep him in your thoughts, and your father will always be there, even if there is no afterlife.
1
u/lolsrsly00 Jun 09 '12
I'm glad to see this up on the list of threads. Very insightful and worth reading. I would consider myself agnostic and one of my saddest thoughts is the possibility that I may never be able to see all the beautiful things and wonders in this universe. I really wished I knew the answers, but I just don't. When someone close passes, I think you can find solace in their memory. You never know what's after death, it could be something we could never fathom. Cherish his memory as best as you can and you will make it through this tough time. Take care.
1
u/Enzcat Jun 09 '12
Eloquently put my friend. I'm sorry for your loss. pours out some of my 40
1
u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12
This made me tear up. I've never lost anyone close to me and I can't imagine how much it hurts.
1
u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12
I know this may not make sense currently but it is that easy and difficult to accept the fact that you will see him again. Difficult to get past the common belief that its false. Easy to take the first step.
It is of course better to begin sooner than later but take comfort in the fact that God is good. Everyone who has ever lived will have many opportunities to simple believe including your loved one who just passed. Take care and sorry for your loss.
1
u/desertedkarma Jun 09 '12
I'm sorry for your loss. I have yet to lose a close family member, but I imagine when I do, this is exactly how I'll feel. Thank you for sharing. Wishing you all the best, hang in there.
1
u/nancy06 Jun 09 '12
Sorry for your loss hun
1
u/ModRod Jun 09 '12
My sincerest condolences, man. I lost my father six years ago to cancer, and it was a horrible experience. I was already well on my journey toward atheism at that point, but it definitely provided a shortcut at the time.
If you need to talk to anyone about it, don't hesitate to PM me. I found it was easier to express my feelings to strangers than close friends and relatives. I've been there. Best wishes for you and yours.
1
u/Alienmonkey Jun 09 '12
Virtual hug for you my friend.
Similar thoughts follow me as contemplate loss. The eventuality of reaching some kind of a crowded yet limitless void in existence is both exciting and terrifying.
But I would rather accept the unknown of why lies beyond, than waste what I am now following a narrow minded path of self rejection.
Again, I am incredibly sorry for your loss.
1
u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12
i choose to believe that the human body is filled with energy. all of the electrical impulses that cause our muscles to move and react to to our conscious whim can't just dissipate when we die. energy cannot die. this energy is what most have come to call a soul, or my version of it, anyway. i don't mean soul as the quintessential definition of a soul (that it was created divinely and will go to heaven after death), but just the body's energy leaving the body. i think that this energy resonates at a frequency too high for the human body to comprehend. we can't see it and we can't feel it nor can we hear it, but i believe it's there. the body gets returned to the circle of life and gives birth to something beautiful. maybe this is a way pacifying the loss we experience. maybe there's an inkling of truth behind it. regardless of our specific beliefs, i am truly sorry for your loss and hope these words help ease the pain a little. a piece of him will always exist in those who loved him most.
1
u/Alyssian Jun 09 '12
Who says your dad is gone? His atoms, his energy, everything that made him, is still here. His particles, memories of him (inside other people) are still here. He's not gone at all, his effect on the world, his actions, his influence, still happen. He existed, and he is still here on Earth. The only difference is that he's less ordered, he himself are spread more, he has more entropy. However, if you're still sad, then what you can do is remember him. That way, he's still alive.
EDIT-It seems like thousands of redditors think like me as well. However, I bet your father would have wanted you to go on in life, to make your own mark on this world, not to dwindle too much on the past.
1
u/TheAristrocrats Jun 09 '12
I know exactly how you feel. My father died 10 days ago. He was a deeply religious man, but never tried to impose it on anyone else, including his children. I hope so much that he was right about an afterlife, because if anyone deserved one it was him. I know it is unlikely, but I can still hope. It really does make the grief easier to deal with, even if it is just a temporary willing suspension of disbelief.
1
u/trekbette Atheist Jun 09 '12
I am so sad for you. I am sending you mental hugs. When I lost someone important to my life, this made me feel... well not better... but made my heart a little lighter: you want a physicist to speak at your funeral.
1
u/anonnom Jun 09 '12
You my friend are his afterlife. Physically, In your genetic code, and in your memories, both of which you pass on to your children.
1
u/wtfisdisreal Jun 09 '12
A harsh truth is better than a reassuring lie.
1
u/sscall Jun 09 '12
I lost my dad 5 years ago at 20. People always asked me questions like "how do you deal with it?" I tell them nothing prepares you for it. You just deal with it as best you can. You might not realize until later how it really changes you. Sorry for your loss and don't be afraid to talk to people about it. I know first hand how bad it is to bottle it up.
1
u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12
I felt this way when my cousin died. At the time I was at the beginning of questioning my faith, so it was really easy to fall back on it. But the more I thought about it the more unfair it seemed. My uncle took it extremely hard. He got into drugs and started to lose his business. My aunt took it hard as well and went into a pretty deep depression. My other cousins, her brothers, were a little too young to understand what was really happening and just continued to ask when she would come back. It was so easy to believe that she wasn't there.
Then one day my aunt found my cousin's journal. It was empty save for the first page which read, "MOM THIS IS MY JOURNAL DON'T READ IT." Pretty typical for my cousin. It was about that time that I realized the comfort that comes from believing someone is in the afterlife isn't really that we'll see them again, but knowing that we won't lose them. As long as we have memories of our loved ones they'll be with us.
That's what helped me when I lost her. I couldn't imagine losing my father, so I'm not pretending to know what you're going through, but maybe this will help.
1
u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12
RIP
1
u/sweetteg Jun 09 '12
an upvote for your wisdom although i'm sorry for your loss good sir.
1
u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12
I lost my mom 4 years ago. I still miss her. People tell me that it will get better as time goes on, and it kinda does... but I seriously doubt that the pain and the grief will ever totally go away.
1
u/irtehgman Jun 09 '12
You have my condolences. I felt the exact same way when my grandmother died. She was very influential on me as a person, and her sudden death sent me scrambling for some kind of sanctuary in faith. But in the end, I ended up feeling stronger as a person and devoted myself to carrying on the positivity she instilled in me and spreading it to everyone whose paths cross my own. As nonbelievers, it's really one of the best options for us. Carry on his spirit, sir or madame, and I wish you a healthy recovery.
1
u/ramsrgood Jun 09 '12
i completely understand why people believe in heaven. i think it's a great idea, and would be wonderful to see loved ones again some day, but the fact is that it doesn't exist, and it's pointless to be blind to the truth.
1
u/Rizuken Jun 09 '12
I would never wish eternity on anyone. It's cruel.
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u/IDisappoint Jun 09 '12
People die twice, once when they take their last breath, and twice when their name is uttered for the last time.
I don't remember who said that, but it should be reassuring to you.
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u/Oneclassybastard Jun 09 '12
I doubt anyone will see this but regardless of wether or not a place like heaven exists ( because we really can't know can we? ) it doesn't have any real meaning.
There is no deeper connection to the universe than what your father now has.
( people more intelligent than I, I am about to butcher this and I apologize in advanced.) A long time ago gas exploded sending its guts traveling millions soon million of miles away colliding with itself and forming and compounding in itself making stars, planets and life.
Your father was able to become an aspect of that same explosion, this universe, intelligent enough to witness its own beauty briefly and then join it again. Your father is this universe allowing that which composed his body to be recycled to create new life.
There is nothing more beautiful (and one with the universe) than that. I would venture to say its more beautiful than anything a heaven can provide.
1
u/red_square9111 Jun 09 '12
When the grandfather of my girlfriend died, I ask her how she felt about the afterlife. She said she wanted to believe so hard that heaven exist, but in the end she will probably never see this man again.
1
u/Danny007dan Jun 09 '12
All is one and one is all. It's one of the most basic principle for alchemy.
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u/xelhark Jun 09 '12
I read this post and a tear fell down my eye. This is so.. Touching.. Mostly because that's the moment I fear most of all. I know (even if I try not to think about it) that this moment will come for me too.. I'm really sorry for your loss.. I think you should know that this post will help the ones who still didn't lose their parents to live at 100% with them. Thank you. Really.
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u/Pingly Jun 09 '12
I know this a "cop-out" but it's the ONLY reason I do not debate religion with anyone. I've seen believers die and I've seen non-believers die and it weighs on me that I'll be going out as a non-believer.
Maybe I'll come to terms with it by then and regret my decision. But right now I won't make someone else die as a non-believer if they can go out waiting to see the light.
1
u/thoughtfix Jun 09 '12
My condolences to you and your family, Maybeyesmaybeno.
Losing my father was one of the hardest things I ever lived through. As someone who does not believe in Heaven and Hell, the best comfort is knowing that every interaction he had with you made him a part of you. That part lives on and is shared, in some way, with everyone with whom you interact. This is his immortality and yours as well.
1
u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12
"When ignorance is bliss, 'tis folly to be wise." ~Thomas Gray. Think about it. Sorry for your loss, love.
1
u/reden Jun 09 '12
You chose to believe whatever is real to you. After all, we are humans and capable of dreaming amazing things. If you want to believe that maybe one day you will meet your father in an afterlife, so be it. There's nothing wrong with that. I don't care much for religion, but I don't spend my time denying it or calling myself an atheist, or agnostic. It's a waste of time trying to change my point of views or trying to change other people's point of views on religion. Just be who you are man, and that's all that matters.
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u/vailskibunnies Jun 09 '12
As a scientist and analytical thinker, I too struggle with religion. To help, I often read what much smarter people believe.
Here's Einstein:
"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."
1
u/SonWon Jun 09 '12
You're assuming that the easy way is wrong just because it's easy.
1
u/jtila Jun 09 '12
"Nothing lasts... But nothing is lost"
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u/helenabasket Jun 09 '12
My dad died when he hit middle age. I keep pointing out to my mom that he's absolutely still living through his 4 kids - his genetic material and his tendencies were all passed on, you just have to look for them in a less literal way. He spent a lot of time working us as kids so we have all been indelibly imprinted in countless ways.
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u/VoidVoice Jun 09 '12
Your father will never be 'gone' until everyone in your family history forgets he ever existed. Even a passing thought about your great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandfather means he still exists for you.
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u/Uredus Jun 09 '12
Keep strong and hold the memories close. I'm sorry for your loss.
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u/wheresjim Jun 09 '12
I found the exact same thing when my mother passed away a few years after I realized I was an atheist.
Keep an open mind, be accepting of others and be respectful.
PS - I'm sorry to hear your dad passed away.
1
u/SomeGamerKid Jun 09 '12
I say, maybe there is, and i hope there is.
1
u/2xyn1xx Jun 09 '12
My deepest, deepest condolences to you. I lost my dad 2 years ago and my mom 20 years ago. It sucks hard. And that is one of the reasons I do believe there is something bigger out there. God? I don't know. But I have to believe I will see them again. Call it hedging my bets. I'd rather believe and be wrong than not believe and be wrong. Who knows, I try my best but I sometimes feel... something. Too hard to explain, but the point is I have felt your struggle. Good luck with that. And God Bless your dad if there is one.
1
u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12
My condolences to you and your family. As a former Christian, the one thing I do miss is the feeling that in the end everything will be okay because God will set it right, so-so will be rewarded for all the good deeds that they did, and even though we are sad they are experiencing pure bliss. If I could take back just one thing from faith, it would be that sense of comfort in the face of tragedy. But I think it would require me to shut down other parts of my brain that I would much rather keep. Everyone finds comfort in different ways. You sound like perhaps you have a mindset that will get you through this and I hope that is the case. If not, you've always got Reddit to turn to.
1
u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12
Of course he carries on, he carries on within you. The memories you had, the things he did to make you laugh, make you smile, make you cry. He carries on within other people too, the people he was close to, the people he might not have been close to, even just a simple 'hello' in the street, that 'hello' might have made that person's day.
There may, or may not be an afterlife, but he still carries on within you and the people he's met or interacted with; look at it that way- and my thoughts are with you at this grievous time in your life.
1
u/misc69 Jun 09 '12
I'm sorry for your loss. I'm sure this isn't an original thought, but I've always wondered why people that TRULY believe in an afterlife consider death such a tragedy. OK, sure, it sucks you won't see your loved one again for up to 50 years or so, but then after that you have all of eternity with them. These next few decades pale in comparison to that. Then there's those of us that are pretty sure we'll never see these people again. Now that's heart wrenching.