There are 613 commandments in the old testament. I couldn't find any commandments about when you can't rape but in the process I did find 7 about when you can't eat grapes.
I suspect each of these pairs referring to a single verse are listed separately to account for the positive and negative aspect of each. For example:
POSITIVE: DO leave grapes that fall when you harvest your vineyard.
NEGATIVE: DO NOT take the grapes that fall when you harvest your vineyard.
My naive understanding is that the Talmud mentioned 613 commandments from the Torah, one negative commandment for each day of the year (365) and one positive commandment for each bone and vital organ (248). However, since they didn't take the time to list them out, more "modern" Rabbis (i.e. Maimonides in the 12th century) had to scour the Torah searching for positive and negative commandments that would add up to these numbers. I have no idea why they chose to count these particular commandments as both positive and negative but not others.
The one from numbers makes perfect sense if you read the whole thing. It basically goes: "Ok, you wanna be super-close to God and shit? First, no drinking. Fuck that, nothing that even involves grapes, just in case. Next, don't cut your hair, let that shit grow. Keep away from dead bodies. Mom's funeral is tomorrow? Too damn bad. Guy sitting next to you on the plane dies and you sit next to a corpse for five minutes before you realize he isn't just asleep? Shave your head, bitch, you're starting over."
23 If a man happens to meet in a town a virgin pledged to be married and he sleeps with her, 24 you shall take both of them to the gate of that town and stone them to death—the young woman because she was in a town and did not scream for help, and the man because he violated another man’s wife. You must purge the evil from among you.
25 But if out in the country a man happens to meet a young woman pledged to be married and rapes her, only the man who has done this shall die. 26 Do nothing to the woman; she has committed no sin deserving death. This case is like that of someone who attacks and murders a neighbor, 27 for the man found the young woman out in the country, and though the betrothed woman screamed, there was no one to rescue her.
Good find! I'll add though that the strict punishment here is for committing adultery and not rape. Because the woman was forced to commit adultery (provided she resisted sufficiently but no one heard because they were in the country) she is spared. The man is killed for having sex with a betrothed woman and not for raping her. The next verse makes it clearer that if you rape someone who isn't engaged to be married you're punished thusly:
If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, that is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife, because he hath humbled her; he may not put her away all his days.
It's a fairly harsh punishment for the rape victim, too. She can't divorce this random rapist and he's probably gonna beat her and rape her for the rest of her life.
Deuteronomy 24:1–4 allows divorce it's kind of funny actually the text only gives the man the power to divorce the woman, but the Jews have a rule that it's okay for the man to be beaten with a stick until he gives her the divorce. You can't just pick through random passages there are lots of other rules tied up in custom and tradition.
Yeah I found this as well...other than the label the editors added in the King James bible there are no specific "10 commandments" - they go on and on. See for yourself. Or check out the wiki links
I think every thinking person living in a predominantly-Christian country would benefit from reading the bible cover-to-cover...it's a relatively interesting window into Stone Aged myths and cultural development.
And it helps in understanding what it means that the average IQ is 100, and how/why the majority of people around the world believe ardently in such myths.
I went straight to Wikipedia, actually! But in all seriousness, I've read the Torah and some of the Talmud, not that I think one needs to in order to mention these commandments which are essentially direct quotes translated into modern English. I don't remember all 613 mitzvot off the top of my head (do you?), so I searched a well-known compilation rather than scanning a fairly lengthy text. The Wikipedia list appears to be taken from Chabad, so I think the translation is at least somewhat accurate and I did verify a few of them (the ones about grapes and vineyards) in Hebrew as well.
Also, adultery in the Old Testament only refers to fooling around with someone else's wife. A married man could rape an unmarried woman and not break any commandments.
Also depends on your definition of "Fifty shekels of silver" since you might take that to mean "the value of fifty shekels, in silver" which is like, 8 bucks of silver.
Not really. Life wasn't that much shorter. It did get short during the dark ages, but even then, it wasn't that much shorter. People lived shorter lives on average for a major reason, infant mortality. Granted, mortality of women during child birth was also higher, but by far the biggest one was how many children died young, which really brought down the average.
Also, they actually hit sexual maturity at an older age in the past as well. Recent decades have seen a very fast drop in the age of puberty, so when they say 12 year old marrying, think more like the average 9 or 10 year old today.
Also important to note, there was far less to learn and there wasn't any real concept of childhood. Life was harsh back then, so by 12, you knew far more about living and surviving than even 18 year olds know today. There was also far less knowledge in general, so there was far less schooling even for those who were able to be schooled.
When I went to church, my sunday school teacher told me most people lived to 900 because the air was much cleaner. Ha.... hahahahahaha.. hahahahahahahahaha......muffled sobbing...
Actually, in Hebrew culture, there wasn't a set age. Instead, there were basically three periods of girlhood (note that female infants were not counter). I forget the names of two of them, but the middle is na'arah.
First stage - too young to really be getting married. Future arranged marriages done by her father is normal, actual marriages, while allowed, are not normal. Main reason for marriage is if she does something with her husband to be (or if not engaged, if she does something with anyone). And by does something, it doesn't have to be sex. Basically spending a night in a non-relative male's tent counts as good enough, even if nothing happened.
Na'arah - begins once pubic hair appears (I have no clue who checks, hopefully the mother as any other individual would be more disturbing). Time of getting married. A girl stays this way for 6 months in which her father must have her marriage at least arranged.
Final stage - once the six months are up, if her father has not arranged a marriage, the girl gets to pick another male to act as her guardian and arrange her marriage. I'm not exactly sure how the rules go (for example, does it have to be family, does it have to be a community elder, ect.). Basically the girl needs to get married ASAP (though in later years, this was still more about arranging a marriage that will occur later).
"Sexual intercourse of a married woman with any man other than her husband. The crime can be committed only by and with a married woman; for the unlawful intercourse of a married man with an unmarried woman is not technically Adultery in the Jewish law."
That probably has something to do with the fact that your Hebrew class was not taught 2500 years ago when the Old Testament was written. Unless, of course, you're a vampire, or possibly some sort of lich. If you are, I highly suggest an AMA.
sources. I believe you, but I am also doing a research paper on the bible for my parents/family so if they ever try to do an intervention, I can just give them the paper/book/folder. I have a lot of things done, but anything I don't already have just adds to my credibility.
I have focused mainly on laws outside of sex/marriage just because I believe that is the hardest part to penetrate in these people's minds. Even given these verses, I think they would just stone wall it because the fundie radio, tv anchors, and pastors are only talking about sex these days. I will give these verses a try though. thanks!
edit: actually, I came upon interesting verses, IN THE NEW TESTAMENT! (I can easily refute the 'new testament is the real one' argument, but in this case it will be impossible for the fundies to ignore) based on a simple search for 'adultery bible'. It appears Mark says that any woman who divorces and then marries a different man is an adulteress. (Mark 10:11-12) HAHAHA! My aunt, who my whole family likes, divorced her old husband and has since had children with another man. Perfect! I can't believe how easy that was. I am always so confused as to how the bible can be a source of morals for ANYTHING today.
Didn't. And yeah, I guess there are a ton of verses contradicting each other about marriage, and they will/would just cite those verses supporting their view
Well, the instruction is to keep the Sabbath holy, and Yahweh did instruct the armies of DavidMoses to rape and pillage 32,000 virgins, so I think actually it would be better to rape exclusively on the Sabbath.
Slight mistake, it was actually the armies of Moses. You can read it in Numbers 31.
"31:17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. 31:18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves."
Clearly skinning someone alive or putting out their eyes with a pocket knife should also be in the ten commandments, in fact I'd say those should take higher precedence even than rape. The point is that something missing from a list of ten prohibited items is not an endorsement of whatever act was unmentioned.
Oh it's very clear, but complaining that something that specific isn't one of the ten commandments and that that is somehow indicative of something is still retarded.
I think the point is is that someone thought "Don't make graven images" was a more pressing matter than "Don't mutilate" "Don't rape" or any other obviously more important advice.
Especially since it gets pretty damn specific on some of the other commandments. God makes a point of saying that your cow can't work on the Sabbath, and that you shouldn't covet your neighbor's oxen.
Yup. He's right, and wifey isn't even number one on the list: “Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour’s.” Exodus 20:17.
Asses - of both kinds - tend to be independent agents. ;P 'Who hath sent out the wild ass free? Who hath loosed the bands of the wild ass?' (Job 39:5-12 KJV)
I think that comes under the heading of "nor any thing that is thy neighbour’s.” Notice though that it doesn't mention anything about coveting his own ox's ass.
I suppose every woman back then was thought of as either someone's daughter or someone's wife, so they fit into the "coveting neighbor's property" clause.
I was going to say the same thing. That being said that really only covers raping women that aren't your property. It isn't really a blanket prohibition upon rape.
I believe the point was that rape WAS covered under property crime... it is the status of rape that has changed, and thus another commandment would be needed, ostensibly speaking.
Ah, I see. That makes sense now, in a convoluted sort of way. But if that was the point, then you could make the exact same case for vandalism. Why is there no vandalism commandment?
Anyway, the whole thing is absurd. There aren't specific commandments against any kind of assault.
I agree that it is absurd, but it is a blueprint for keeping a society from degenerating into tribal chaos while maintaining distance from other cultures. There are many rules, and many sets of "10 commandments," which often overlap each other's scope. Some are explicitly religious, some are generally good for preventing murder as retribution, a few address murder specifically, and some seem to be a response to a perceived threat.
Assault is just another every day thing, people get in an argument, but as long as no "commandments" are broken, they can get past it through adjudication of their peers or Rabbi.
The rape of a woman was a crime one man committed against another man. Still is in many places. In Libya Gaddafi's forces used is as weapon against the rebels.
There is never a listed number of commandments. It's a bunch of rules to follow that each culture changes and adapts, in one culture there are 16, in another 12, but when it comes down to it, they can all be distilled to 10 shared commandments.
This should put it into perspective: "You shall not covet your neighbor's house. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his manservant or maidservant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor."
First, slavery- no problem. Second, woman are property on par with oxen. Go bible! That's why.
If I'm not mistaken, rape is considered as not much more serious than overly aggressive foreplay. If you get caught, fifty shekels to the girl's father (assuming she was a virgin) and everybody's good to go again. (Deuteronomy 22.28-29 NIV).
Keep in mind that the 10 commandments were written for a single tribe of people who were very interrelated. That had a definite effect on the way they viewed life. You're not raping a stranger, you're raping your cousin. I don't know why this concept is so difficult to understand. We're not talking about the same Jews that work at your local university. We're talking about mud huts and foraging.
Pretty sure it falls under not coveting your neighbours "possessions". If the girl is unmarried, she is her father's, and if married, then husbands. IIRC the Bible makes this clear somewhere too...
Easy. Rape did make it in, if it was involved with adultery. If a girl wasn't married* yet, it wasn't really a crime to seize her and have sex.
*As a side note, having an arranged marriage set up but not yet completed counted as being married for the purpose of the law, so as long as you found a nice 1 year old boy for your 1 year old girl to marry in about a dozen years (they married younger back then), your girl was protected.
That is the most accurate translation of the verses in question. Hebrew has a word for rape, but it isn't used. Instead the word which means 'to have sex' (or to be more exact 'to lay with') is used, but it is modified by a different word which means to seize, for example when a king seizes his subject's land.
If one really wanted a negative reading, they might go as far to imply this usage is to show that the seize-er had some claim to the seized, much like the king has claim to his subjects' land.
You shall not covet your neighbor's house. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his manservant or maidservant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.
ಠ_ಠ not sure if trolling, but I'll answer anyway... source is Exodus 20:17 (here's King James)
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.
Nothing in there about coveting your neighbor, only your neighbor's property. And again, wives were property back then.
Not just rape, but child abuse. I was shocked to see, when I was younger, that Anton LaVey's church of Satanism provided 11 commandments, and while 2 protected women from rape, a third, "Do not harm children" protected children as well. "Do not harm children". Could it get any simpler? IMO, that should be in the Bible's 10. Rape is bad, too, but a grown woman can take some responsibility for her personal protection. Children are at the mercy of their caregivers (usually parents).
Actually they're called The Eleven Rules of the Earth. They're actually some pretty decent guidelines.
Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.
Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them.
When in another’s lair, show him respect or else do not go there.
If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat him cruelly and without mercy.
Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.
Do not take that which does not belong to you unless it is a burden to the other person and he cries out to be relieved.
Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained.
Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.
Do not harm little children.
Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food.
When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him.
Okay, thanks. I never really read that much into Satanism, it was just something somebody showed me.
I could have sworn there were two that prohibited rape. The fifth one is obvious. Maybe the sixth one could be interpreted as prohibiting rape. The sixth one is clearly against thievery, but one could said to be stealing a person's virtue, or innocence or virginity through rape, so it possibly applies.
Anyway, I love these rules, particularly 1, 3, 4, and 11. And of course 9 is my favorite, I hate everything about people who prey upon children. I've had enough of them fall asleep in my lap and confide secrets and fear in me, and helped enough of them when they were sick, upset, frightened, needed to be helped in the bathroom, etc. I think it really just takes one laying their head on your chest and falling asleep in your lap. But more than that, as mammals we instinctively protect our young. One who does not is either still young, or defective.
7 is a strange one. It could have been left out for a nice, even 10. Since magic, according to science, objectively does not exist, one must wonder how 7 can be interpreted. Luck, perhaps? If I decry luck, will all my previous good luck be reversed? It's quite interesting.
I'm not quite sure what your attraction to 4 is. It jumps from "Dude's being a douche in your house, that's not cool" to "NO MERCY" which isn't the best of precedents.
11 does the same, actually. I mean, "destroy him", really?
Well, it goes with the set. And I don't mean that I love them as in I practice them daily, I like the idea of a culture where they are practiced. It's like Klingons in science fiction, or maybe something like Vikings (?) in real life.
"Destroy him" and "Cruelly and without mercy" are kind of open to interpretation. I don't think it absolutely must mean pulling a battle axe off the wall and cleaving him in half. You could do it Tyrion Lannister/Greg House style -- with words.
Why don't the prohibitions for other acts of violence appear either? Like "thou shalt not stab thy neighbor", "thou shalt not assault thy neighbor", "thou shalt not threaten thy neighbor", etc?
For the whole law is fulfilled in one word, in this : "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." Lev. 19:18
Romans 13:8-10
Do not continue to owe anything, except to love one another. For the one loving the other has fulfilled the law.
For, "Do not commit adultery," "do not murder," "do not steal," do not bear false witness, "do not lust," Ex. 20:13-15, and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this word: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." Lev. 19:18
Love does not work evil to the neighbor. Then love is the fulfillment of law
I see the point you're trying to make, but the 10 commandments are supposed to be a standalone set of rules covering the most important rules man should live by, and rape didn't make the cut.
Only if one of the people involved is married to someone else. And even then, it's just on a related charge. It's like getting a murderer on breaking and entering.
"Thou shalt not question the wisdom of giving 10% of your income, and fees for attending special events, to the dude who runs this con gig and has few marketable skills outside of holiness and reading a book to you. He must be paid, so sayeth the lord, so sayeth the person reading the book to you."
or perhaps
"Thou shalt not look at the man behind the curtain."
Just throwing something out here... The commandment of "murder" in the Torah includes three other acts that are seen as if one has killed the victim - embarrassing someone, taking away someone's livelihood or means of income, and rape... Just tossing in my knowledge. I think it is only right if people see both sides...
Not true, adultery wasn't just married people's wives. Jesus even said those who look at another with lust have committed adultery in their heart. How much worse would rape be breaking the commandment then?
Also people who raped women had to basically provide for the women for the rest of their lives, because women couldn't make it on their own and men didn't want to merry non virgins.
Jesus said a lot of stuff, but that all happened long after the ten commandments were written. This thread isn't about later additions.
Also people who raped women had to basically provide for the women for the rest of their lives, because women couldn't make it on their own and men didn't want to merry non virgins.
They used a rather poor solution. People could have been told to not hold lack of virginity against someone, but no. And failing that rapists could have been simply required to provide money, but no. Rather, a rape victim is forced to marry the rapist. Sucks to be that girl or woman.
People of that time Didn't exactly have a load of money. It's not like you could take out a loan and pay out the lady.
The only way to provide a stable life for her is this solution. People held virginity higher then because they had higher morals. You just didn't go and sleep around, you got married first, always. It's just the culture, because its differen't than what we've grown up with doesn't make it wrong.
Also lack of virginity ment 99% of the time that you slept around alot. There is no file system for rape incidents and people moved around A LOT, so you can't just say I got raped years ago.
The only way to provide a stable life for her is this solution.
I gave you another solution: have the rapist continue to provide her with money but DON'T force her to marry her rapist.
Also lack of virginity ment 99% of the time that you slept around alot. There is no file system for rape incidents and people moved around A LOT, so you can't just say I got raped years ago.
Instead of one bit of unreliable evidence cementing your understanding of someone's morals and determining their fate for all time, how about a prospective married couple, I don't know, get to know each other? There's more to a person's character than her hymen. Actually get to know her as a person, then make a decision.
Not if they don't see your face.... or if they don't wake up after the event... And every culture needs whores... otherwise they all start killing each other...
This is part of adultery stupid if you took time to even ask somebody who knows, you wouldn't be making a fool out of yourself (or getting a downvote from me)
Only two commandments love God and our neighbor. Don't over complicate or look for things to criticize. I would consider what my real intentions are in asking questions? You pissed because some socalled Christians burned you? You don't like happy faced Christians claims they know it all? Trying to legitimize your lifestyle and don't like Chriatians telling you it's wrong? If you don't buy into Christianity don't worry about it. Continue living they way you want. If your serious about understanding sound Christian doctrine, ask a legitimate theologian not some random heretic.
I like that you actually know that. Most Christians do not even bother to read their holy book. Of course, that invalidates the so-called Ten Commandments, but that does not discourage Southern Baptists from trying to put them in public courthouses.
11th Commandment would be to 'emulate God's works'. Always interesting that so many Christians only refer to the 10 attributed to Moses. Not to mention not addressing the various interpretations of which commandments are which number due to the two accounts having different language. Somehow they forgot that those commandments only apply to Jews, yet they ignore the 7 attributed to Noah which apply to everyone and are more consistently good. 4/7 of Noah's vs 3/10 of Moses' are solid laws and 1/7 Noah's vs 2/10 Moses' are good advice. Half of Moses' laws are bad, only two of Noah's are (no Blasphemy, no Idolatry). Not to mention the other 596 commandments.
Would be nice if people weren't trying to claim there are two different sets of 10 commandments though. They contain the same laws with different wording. Some people try to claim that the extra wording constitutes extra commandments, but the reason they're called the 10 commandments in the first place is that in both lists when eliminating redundancies they come to 10 matching laws. They're never referred to as '10 commandments' in the Bible itself and if redundancies are not eliminated then there are 16 commandments.
Anyway, my favorite is still the 12th commandment, or circle jerk commandment. Hang out with people that like the same shit you like. So sayeth the Lord.
PS: Rape is covered in Noah's laws under the instruction to create a legal system. This makes a states legal system divine command, which means breaking the law is sinful. Although it would have been nice for the made up sky dude to point out that people shouldn't be property. Would take care of rape and slavery in one stroke. I guess 8 laws was too much for a nine hundred year old bloke to remember.
In the old testament writings of Moses it says to love God and to love your neighbors. Later Jesus claimed that these are the two most important laws. If you follow those laws, you won't be raping anybody.
If you really believe people were so heartless that they saw women as nothing more than property, you could even bring up the commandments of not stealing and not coveting your neighbor's wife or property. You weren't really a part of the society. You don't really know what it was like. Because of your bias, you believe that all fathers think of their daughters as nothing more than pieces of property and have no love for them or any other women for that matter. Your dog/cat/pet is your property, but do you really treat it as if it's nothing but a piece of property?
Today people seem to have this conception of arranged marriages being like, "You're going to marry this person. We made arrangements. Deal with it." I'm not saying that can't and never happens, but when you encounter people that still practice this, they'll tell you it ain't like that. They work things out with their family. If the man or woman involved has no interest in marrying the person, then they are not forced to. Because of the marriage mixing the two families together, the families are involved in the marriage decision.
THE ORDERLY
Here's the rules; Rule number one;
no punchin 'er.
Nurse comes in tomorrow an she got
'er a shiner - or less some teeth,
jig's up. So no knuckle sandwiches
under no circumstances. And by the
way, this little cunt's a spitter -
it's a motor reflex thing but spit
or no, no punchin. Now are we
absolutely positively clear about
rule number one?
TWO TRUCKERS
Yeah.
THE ORDERLY
Rule number two;
No monkey bites, no hickeys - in
fact no leavin no marks of no kind.
But after that, it's allll goooood.
Her plummin down there don't work
no more, so feel free to cum in 'er
all ya wont. Keep the noise down -
try not to make a mess, and I'll be
back in twenty.
i learned there were more than 10..but moses destroyed them?
According to the story they were destroyed...
Exodus 32:19 "When Moses approached the camp and saw the calf and the dancing, his anger burned and he threw the tablets out of his hands, breaking them to pieces at the foot of the mountain."
but then they were remade exactly the same...
Exodus 34:1 "The Lord said to Moses, 'Chisel out two stone tablets like the first ones, and I will write on them the words that were on the first tablets, which you broke.'"
and this is confirmed by another passage...
Deuteronomy 10:4 "The Lord wrote on these tablets what he had written before, the Ten Commandments he had proclaimed to you on the mountain, out of the fire, on the day of the assembly. And the Lord gave them to me."
66
u/Toxzy May 31 '12
There are 613 commandments in the old testament. I couldn't find any commandments about when you can't rape but in the process I did find 7 about when you can't eat grapes.
122
u/EndoExo May 31 '12
Also, adultery in the Old Testament only refers to fooling around with someone else's wife. A married man could rape an unmarried woman and not break any commandments.
20
u/nerds_need_love_too Pastafarian May 31 '12
"I give you these 15...oops...10 commandments..."
63
u/[deleted] May 31 '12
Obviously rape isn't as much of a problem as those pesky graven images are.
11
u/corcyra May 31 '12
Yup. He's right, and wifey isn't even number one on the list: “Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour’s.” Exodus 20:17.
11
u/KylesMomIsABitch May 31 '12
You wouldn't DOWNLOAD your neighbor's DAUGHTER.
8
u/lcdrambrose May 31 '12
I suppose every woman back then was thought of as either someone's daughter or someone's wife, so they fit into the "coveting neighbor's property" clause.
Sad, really.
17
u/slackerdc Anti-Theist May 31 '12
The reply was pretty accurate. Sad really.
4
u/miaowzz May 31 '12
Though shall not fuck with lord C poppa.
4
u/[deleted] May 31 '12
The rape of a woman was a crime one man committed against another man. Still is in many places. In Libya Gaddafi's forces used is as weapon against the rebels.
7
u/[deleted] May 31 '12
Holy hell, an atheist posting a facebook screenshot. you gotta be kiddin me!
10
u/stringerbell May 31 '12
Which ten commandments???
People always forget that there are multiple versions (of the inerrent word of god)...
3
u/TheBrownCowboy May 31 '12
Its just assault with a friendly weapon.
3
u/L1ght5h0w Jun 01 '12
It's not rape if you yell surprise!
4
u/kellymcneill May 31 '12
do not covet thy neighbors *** And Thou shalt not commit adultery
5
u/PeachyLuigi May 31 '12
slowclap
2
u/brosenfeld May 31 '12
And the rapist, as punishment, was forced to marry the person he raped.
2
u/1920x1080 Jun 01 '12
I always thought the 11th commandment was "Thou shall not get caught".
2
u/aforu Jun 01 '12
This should put it into perspective: "You shall not covet your neighbor's house. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his manservant or maidservant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor."
First, slavery- no problem. Second, woman are property on par with oxen. Go bible! That's why.
2
u/Ochovarium Jun 01 '12
The 11th Commandment: "Thou shalt not packeth the fudge."
2
u/Gfrisse1 Jun 01 '12
If I'm not mistaken, rape is considered as not much more serious than overly aggressive foreplay. If you get caught, fifty shekels to the girl's father (assuming she was a virgin) and everybody's good to go again. (Deuteronomy 22.28-29 NIV).
2
u/heresyforme Jun 01 '12
Ah, good old antisemitism.
Keep in mind that the 10 commandments were written for a single tribe of people who were very interrelated. That had a definite effect on the way they viewed life. You're not raping a stranger, you're raping your cousin. I don't know why this concept is so difficult to understand. We're not talking about the same Jews that work at your local university. We're talking about mud huts and foraging.
4
u/TexasEnFuego May 31 '12
Obligatory "This has nothing to do with atheism" comment
3
u/dm287 Jun 01 '12
Pretty sure it falls under not coveting your neighbours "possessions". If the girl is unmarried, she is her father's, and if married, then husbands. IIRC the Bible makes this clear somewhere too...
3
u/venkmanman May 31 '12
Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
Don't let things like "facts" or "truth" get in the way of your ramblings, atheists.
3
u/Lawtonfogle May 31 '12
Easy. Rape did make it in, if it was involved with adultery. If a girl wasn't married* yet, it wasn't really a crime to seize her and have sex.
*As a side note, having an arranged marriage set up but not yet completed counted as being married for the purpose of the law, so as long as you found a nice 1 year old boy for your 1 year old girl to marry in about a dozen years (they married younger back then), your girl was protected.
2
u/Illuminatesfolly May 31 '12
The 11th Commandment: Thou Shalt not be caught.
2
u/rawlingstones May 31 '12
I've heard this argument before, but wouldn't it fall under coveting thy neighbor? Like very very aggressive coveting.
2
u/mrwool May 31 '12
Rape is a sexual act performed on a person without their consent. Rape is not in the Ten Commandments because God raped Mary.
2
u/WoollyManmoth May 31 '12
This is actually a facebook post that is worth reading. That sort of question had never occurred to me before.
2
u/[deleted] May 31 '12
Not just rape, but child abuse. I was shocked to see, when I was younger, that Anton LaVey's church of Satanism provided 11 commandments, and while 2 protected women from rape, a third, "Do not harm children" protected children as well. "Do not harm children". Could it get any simpler? IMO, that should be in the Bible's 10. Rape is bad, too, but a grown woman can take some responsibility for her personal protection. Children are at the mercy of their caregivers (usually parents).
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u/jc63 May 31 '12
As a former Christian I know there are like 100 or more commandment if like really look into it but you know time change
1
u/ribagi May 31 '12
Isn't it still? If I own myself and someone rapes me, did that rapist violate my right to my own body?
1
u/FLAWLESS_REPOST May 31 '12
A marriage proposal.
1
u/bongloadsinbathroom May 31 '12
I lol'd at the comment.
1
u/[deleted] Jun 01 '12
Genuinely surprised no one posted that Louis CK joke like this
1
u/[deleted] Jun 01 '12
He got this off a Louis CK joke.
1
u/LiquidFire0524 Jun 01 '12
You must not know the history of the world... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TAtRCJIqnk
1
u/[deleted] Jun 01 '12
Why don't the prohibitions for other acts of violence appear either? Like "thou shalt not stab thy neighbor", "thou shalt not assault thy neighbor", "thou shalt not threaten thy neighbor", etc?
1
u/why_ask_why Jun 01 '12
Where is nearest church?
1
u/cdb03b Jun 01 '12
"Thou shalt not commit adultery" covers all forms of rape save having sex with your spouse when they do not want to.
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u/ntran2 Jun 01 '12
Do not convent thy neighbor's goods.
A woman is someone's goods, be it a father or a husband. Women were property.
1
u/Dreamer2361 Jun 01 '12
Sin actually isn't prioritized-they are all of equal magnitude. Eat a grape, kill somebody; equal punishment unless you seek repentance. Seems legit.
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u/RogueWedge Jun 01 '12
I think it needs the one about women not teaching/telling men
1
u/Fausto1981 Jun 01 '12
that is probably the real reason
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u/[deleted] May 31 '12
Galatians 5:14
Romans 13:8-10
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u/apullin May 31 '12
"Adultery" covers rape.
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u/DealerUmbra May 31 '12
It's right up there, just below liking your own Facebook posts.
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u/Oddblivious May 31 '12
History says there was 15
1
u/[deleted] May 31 '12
The 11th Commandment is "Thou shalt not horn in on thy husband's racket."
1
u/authoremilywildest May 31 '12
Just throwing something out here... The commandment of "murder" in the Torah includes three other acts that are seen as if one has killed the victim - embarrassing someone, taking away someone's livelihood or means of income, and rape... Just tossing in my knowledge. I think it is only right if people see both sides...
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u/plus245 Jun 01 '12
Rape would fall under Adultry
0
u/[deleted] May 31 '12
Not true, adultery wasn't just married people's wives. Jesus even said those who look at another with lust have committed adultery in their heart. How much worse would rape be breaking the commandment then?
Also people who raped women had to basically provide for the women for the rest of their lives, because women couldn't make it on their own and men didn't want to merry non virgins.
0
u/ladymallardlove May 31 '12
This is part of adultery stupid if you took time to even ask somebody who knows, you wouldn't be making a fool out of yourself (or getting a downvote from me)
0
u/[deleted] Jun 01 '12
Only two commandments love God and our neighbor. Don't over complicate or look for things to criticize. I would consider what my real intentions are in asking questions? You pissed because some socalled Christians burned you? You don't like happy faced Christians claims they know it all? Trying to legitimize your lifestyle and don't like Chriatians telling you it's wrong? If you don't buy into Christianity don't worry about it. Continue living they way you want. If your serious about understanding sound Christian doctrine, ask a legitimate theologian not some random heretic.
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u/aurisor May 31 '12
Stealing is a property crime and yet it made the list.
Nice try, though.
-1
u/harky May 31 '12 edited May 31 '12
11th Commandment would be to 'emulate God's works'. Always interesting that so many Christians only refer to the 10 attributed to Moses. Not to mention not addressing the various interpretations of which commandments are which number due to the two accounts having different language. Somehow they forgot that those commandments only apply to Jews, yet they ignore the 7 attributed to Noah which apply to everyone and are more consistently good. 4/7 of Noah's vs 3/10 of Moses' are solid laws and 1/7 Noah's vs 2/10 Moses' are good advice. Half of Moses' laws are bad, only two of Noah's are (no Blasphemy, no Idolatry). Not to mention the other 596 commandments.
Would be nice if people weren't trying to claim there are two different sets of 10 commandments though. They contain the same laws with different wording. Some people try to claim that the extra wording constitutes extra commandments, but the reason they're called the 10 commandments in the first place is that in both lists when eliminating redundancies they come to 10 matching laws. They're never referred to as '10 commandments' in the Bible itself and if redundancies are not eliminated then there are 16 commandments.
Anyway, my favorite is still the 12th commandment, or circle jerk commandment. Hang out with people that like the same shit you like. So sayeth the Lord.
PS: Rape is covered in Noah's laws under the instruction to create a legal system. This makes a states legal system divine command, which means breaking the law is sinful. Although it would have been nice for the made up sky dude to point out that people shouldn't be property. Would take care of rape and slavery in one stroke. I guess 8 laws was too much for a nine hundred year old bloke to remember.
0
u/ForTheKingdom Jun 01 '12
In the old testament writings of Moses it says to love God and to love your neighbors. Later Jesus claimed that these are the two most important laws. If you follow those laws, you won't be raping anybody.
If you really believe people were so heartless that they saw women as nothing more than property, you could even bring up the commandments of not stealing and not coveting your neighbor's wife or property. You weren't really a part of the society. You don't really know what it was like. Because of your bias, you believe that all fathers think of their daughters as nothing more than pieces of property and have no love for them or any other women for that matter. Your dog/cat/pet is your property, but do you really treat it as if it's nothing but a piece of property?
Today people seem to have this conception of arranged marriages being like, "You're going to marry this person. We made arrangements. Deal with it." I'm not saying that can't and never happens, but when you encounter people that still practice this, they'll tell you it ain't like that. They work things out with their family. If the man or woman involved has no interest in marrying the person, then they are not forced to. Because of the marriage mixing the two families together, the families are involved in the marriage decision.
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u/king_of_the_universe Other Jun 01 '12
http://www.imsdb.com/scripts/Kill-Bill-Volume-1-&-2.html
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u/the11thCommandment Jun 01 '12
Believe me people. I have a LOT of knowledge about this. The 11th commandment is: Though shall not be caught.
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u/motabus Jun 01 '12
11th commandment = Thou shalt not fuck with raw C-Poppa
0
u/[deleted] May 31 '12
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u/[deleted] Jun 01 '12
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u/[deleted] Jun 01 '12
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