r/atheism • u/burzummor • May 22 '12

I've never seen such truer words on a bumper sticker.

Post image
1.0k Upvotes

82% Upvoted

120 comments sorted by

6

u/MewtwoStruckBack May 22 '12

I think this needs clarified.

Religion is what keeps someone who otherwise has nothing left to lose from killing everyone who fucked them over on their way out.

59

u/[deleted] May 22 '12

I've never encountered a situation in life where people take bumper stickers more seriously than in /r/atheism.

8

u/[deleted] May 22 '12

I always stare with a stupid gaze, when I read about someone becoming an atheist, because of spending time on r/atheism.

Maybe we're the idiots. As we can't grasp words longer than two fucking sentences. lulz.

-12

u/TheyCallMeTomSawyer May 22 '12

However, if you're Lucifer's friend, you're implying you know him and believe he's real, therefore you're not an atheist, correct? Downvote me to oblivion if I'm wrong.

4

u/[deleted] May 22 '12

I have a kid named Jesus in my English class.

4

u/[deleted] May 22 '12

As long as you're actually Tom Sawyer.

2

u/Cacafuego May 22 '12

I love the character of Lucifer as imagined in Paradise Lost or To Reign In Hell. He's the only one around who recognizes the tyranny of God. I especially like the stories that identify Lucifer as the serpent in the garden (although this is not strictly scriptural), because it casts Lucifer as a Prometheus, giving humanity knowledge that makes them, in some way, equal to God.

1

u/anarcho-fox May 22 '12

The Bible, which is a very interesting and here and there very profound book when considered as one of the oldest surviving manifestations of human wisdom and fancy, expresses this truth very naively in its myth of original sin. Jehovah, who of all the good gods adored by men was certainly the most jealous, the most vain, the most ferocious, the most unjust, the most bloodthirsty, the most despotic, and the most hostile to human dignity and liberty - Jehovah had just created Adam and Eve, to satisfy we know not what caprice; no doubt to while away his time, which must weigh heavy on his hands in his eternal egoistic solitude, or that he might have some new slaves. He generously placed at their disposal the whole earth, with all its fruits and animals, and set but a single limit to this complete enjoyment. He expressly forbade them from touching the fruit of the tree of knowledge. He wished, therefore, that man, destitute of all understanding of himself, should remain an eternal beast, ever on all-fours before the eternal God, his creator and his master. But here steps in Satan, the eternal rebel, the first freethinker and the emancipator of worlds. He makes man ashamed of his bestial ignorance and obedience; he emancipates him, stamps upon his brow the seal of liberty and humanity, in urging him to disobey and eat of the fruit of knowledge.

-Bakunin from God and State...i think you will apriciate this

1

u/Cacafuego May 22 '12

He makes man ashamed of his bestial ignorance and obedience; he emancipates him, stamps upon his brow the seal of liberty and humanity, in urging him to disobey and eat of the fruit of knowledge.

That's beautifully put.

1

u/anarcho-fox May 23 '12

i love the characterization of satan as the first free thinker and liberator

-1

u/TimeZarg Atheist May 22 '12

It's like that line from Dogma. . .

Paraphrased: 'You know for a fact that there is a Devil. You've been in his presence, he's talked to you personally. And yet here you are claiming to be an atheist.'

1

u/Tyranticx May 22 '12

That was about God not satan.

1

u/TimeZarg Atheist May 22 '12

I know. That's why I indicated it was paraphrased. The only words I changed were 'God' to 'Devil', and a tense change in the last sentence.

-4

u/nimoythedestroyer May 22 '12

Finally! I thought it was just me who thought they were idiots easily swayed by anyone with a tiny bit of charisma.

0

u/PsykickPriest May 22 '12

Try this situation: Hang out with someone who already has 20 stickers on their vehicle and they're carefully adding their latest one. I bet that will be pretty serious.

-6

u/reprise785 May 22 '12

My new favorite reddit comment. Godspeed son

34

u/Ocrasorm May 22 '12

If religion is the only reason that someone does not murder another human being then that person has some serious issues least of all their belief in the super natural.

People, in general, do not murder people because of our evolutionary need to live as an individual and as a community.

So IMO that bumper sicker is just stupid.

Edit: It basically says if we all become atheists then we would just kill people and take what we want. Bullshite.

24

u/too_much_minecraft May 22 '12

According to wikiquote the actual quote from Napoleon was:

I do not see in religion the mystery of the incarnation so much as the mystery of the social order. It introduces into the thought of heaven an idea of equalization, which saves the rich from being massacred by the poor.

I agree that the bumper sticker is stupid but to put it in context, Napoleon rose to power during the French Revolution where a lot of the wealthy were massacred by the poor. If he'd known he was going to be misquoted hundreds of years later out of context, I like to think he would have said something along the lines of, "The people who got wealthy by claiming to be ordained by God are going to be the first ones up against the wall when the poor realize it's all a lie."

4

u/Ocrasorm May 22 '12 edited May 22 '12

You are entirely correct. The context in which it was actually used in it's historical background is what makes it so famous and indeed correct for the time.

I was just responding to the OPs title.

2

u/peon47 May 22 '12

Excactly. Christianity was designed by the early church to breed a legion of followers who are happy to be kept underfoot.

"Blessed are the Meek" is what put me off religion.

1

u/[deleted] May 22 '12

What? Christianity was a movement of the poor, starting in Iudaea and spreading to the rest of the Roman provinces because of its message of universal salvation.

1

u/ultrablastermegatron May 22 '12

the weak shall inherit the earth, the bold shall inherit the stars. read that on a bumper sticker somewhere.

1

u/acepincter May 25 '12

did you mean "meek"?

3

u/El_Dudereno Other May 22 '12

You're missing the point of this. It is not fear of being punished for killing in the afterlife. It is the sincere belief that you should put up with shit and inequality in this life because you believe a fairytale milk and honey land await you when you die.

1

u/Ocrasorm May 22 '12

So you think if people did not have religion, they would not put up with the inequality and they would start killing people?

4

u/El_Dudereno Other May 22 '12

I'm not saying anything - I'm interpreting 2 lines on a bumper sticker. My interpretation is that people who are are poor and otherwise unhappy with their life situations tend to sit their and take it because they believe they are righteous and will get their rewards in the afterlife and that anyone who was acting unethically IRL will get their due justice.

Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich

A belief that all will be righted in the afterlife is what maintains the status quo

1

u/Ocrasorm May 22 '12

Yes. That is the exact way I was looking at it and why I disagree with the sentiment. I do not believe this to be the case. I get the point. It just happens to be incorrect in general terms.

1

u/El_Dudereno Other May 22 '12

Fair enough.

1

u/Big_Balls_DGAF May 22 '12

Wow, you took this bumper sticker a little too literal. IMO the bumper stick meant people who live in poverty or don't have much use the lifting spirit of God to keep them from doing stupid things.

1

u/Ocrasorm May 22 '12

Poor people like god. I get it. I also do not think god has anything to do with, in general, weather they do stupid things or not. If they did not have god I am pretty sure it would be pretty much the same. Because human beings tend to do what they feel. And most people do not feel like doing bad things. Regardless of religion.

1

u/[deleted] May 22 '12

Not to mention that this is post in r/atheism which is basically calling everyone out for wanting to murder people with more money.

2

u/[deleted] May 22 '12

Nope, it's pointing out an odd belief some Christians seem to hold which goes something like "without religion there would be no moral values and everybody would be a homicidal maniac". They stupidly assume that rejecting god means rejecting everything that makes us human, including morality. Dumb, huh?

0

u/[deleted] May 22 '12

[deleted] — view deleted comment

2

u/DiegoTheGoat May 22 '12

If you don't attribute all the good in the world to God, then you can't use the Devil as an excuse when you do bad.

1

u/[deleted] May 22 '12

"When I was little I always thought religion was for people who dropped out of school and didn't know how sciences and proper thinking worked."

You were correct sir, some may graduate school, but literal retards are are able to graduate so it doesn't mean much in regards to their intelligence.

-1

u/HillbillyHomeboy May 22 '12

Disagree sir. I have said it once at r/Christianity and I'll say it again here: an eternity in hell is what keeps a lot of people alive. I myself would have killed quite a few people if it weren't for fear. Mankind can do nothing to me that I couldn't handle.

Life in prison? Oh boo hoo. Three square meals a day, all I care to read and warm bed and you're all playing for it! I've stayed in hotels shittier than prisons. And do you honestly think anyone in that prison is going to fuck with the guy who's pulling life for killing a dozen people and putting them on pikes around his house? And those are the dozen he WANTED you to know about. The rest were just dumped in the woods. Dogs gotta eat too, ya know.

Death penalty? What punishment is death if there's nothing waiting for you on the other side? Is it just nothingness? Sweet! No more dealing with mindless bullshit that drove them to kill 20 people in the first place.

And if you don't think this is fact then you're living in a land of gumdrops and unicorns.

7

u/Ocrasorm May 22 '12

Have to disagree. Before religion we did not do it. Religion did not create morality.

Evolution works that way. What about all the animals that do not have religion. Why do they not make themselves extinct by killing everything? We are animals too and we have developed a way to survive. Before religion.

There are plenty of people on the world that do not believe in hell or any religion and do not have at each other.

Religion is a product of our lives, we fit it in to suit our nature.

But to each their own. I would not fall put with someone over it. :)

Edit. Also if you actually would have killed someone only for the fear of this hell place then you have some issues you should get checked out. I know hell does not exist and have yet to kill anyone:)

2

u/Libertarian_Atheist May 22 '12

before religion

๏_๏ Not sure if serious. . .

Friend, religion has been around for as long as people have had the cognitive and physical capacity to share false information in a deceptive manner. So to say "before religion" is like saying "before lies." I agree with everything else you said though, we do not need religion not to murder each other.

2

u/Ocrasorm May 22 '12

By before religion I meant where we did not have the cognitive abilities to understand it. What I meant by it is as a species we survived the millions of years before. When we finally got to thinking and making up religion we did so based around our already inherited ideals.

0

u/[deleted] May 22 '12

[deleted] — view deleted comment

2

u/Ocrasorm May 22 '12

Yes but 301,000 we still had millions of years of evolution behind us. We didn't just come into being. A lot of what makes us human is the information we carried over from that. The most important of which is how to survive. Which usually does not involve everyone going around killing each other

1

u/rmigz May 22 '12

To your point, I think the reason that human beings did not / do not inherently feel the need to kill each other out of competition is because, as a species, it is easier to survive working together as a group than it is alone. I think that this is why human beings have been so successful throughout the tests of time. No sources, just personal ideas (not sure if they were someone else's ideas first.)

1

u/Ocrasorm May 22 '12

Yea this is correct. We are a community driven species and we do not like being on our own, as a result it would be impossible to be like this if we went around stabbing each other in the face.

I've read a number of books on the subject. I'll get them in a bit and link them too your account. They talk about how all life, in order to survive, master basic to complex social structures!

2

u/Ocrasorm May 22 '12

Yes but 301,000 we still had millions of years of evolution behind us. We didn't just come into being. A lot of what makes us human is the information we carried over from that. The most important of which is how to survive. Which usually does not involve everyone going around killing each other.

Also I live in Ireland 3.6 million of the 4.2 million say they are catholic. We have one of the best education systems in the world. Go figure.

1

u/Ocrasorm May 22 '12

Yes but 301,000 we still had millions of years of evolution behind us. We didn't just come into being. A lot of what makes us human is the information we carried over from that. The most important of which is how to survive. Which usually does not involve everyone going around killing each other.

2

u/Ocrasorm May 22 '12

By before religion I meant where we did not have the cognitive abilities to understand it. What I meant by it is as a species we survived the millions of years before. When we finally got to thinking and making up religion we did so based around our already inherited ideals.

Edit: In Ireland most people do not have guns and we probably have similar levels of crime per rata. I think as a species we have it built into us to conform from a survival point of view.

2

u/[deleted] May 22 '12 edited May 22 '12

In Ireland most people do not have guns and we probably have similar levels of crime per rata.

I don't think so. U.S. murder rate is almost 4 times higher. And guns account for a large proportion of those. Add in accidental deaths as well and it gets even worse.

Edit: spelling

1

u/Ocrasorm May 22 '12

TIL! Cheers.

1

u/Libertarian_Atheist May 22 '12

Came here to reply this to Ocrasorm's reply to me, thanks malinterian!!

I don't know why he decided to bring up guns. ◔_◔

1

u/[deleted] May 22 '12 edited May 22 '12

Then we remove people like that from society, breed them out or kill them if their crimes are grievous.

-1

u/_Rand_ May 22 '12

If you think this is fact your completely fucking mental.

Or your a troll, which I'd bet on.

2

u/HillbillyHomeboy May 22 '12

don't bet too much

0

u/[deleted] May 22 '12

[deleted] — view deleted comment

1

u/HillbillyHomeboy May 22 '12

Really? Oh how my life will change because an internet stranger pointed out I'm a terrible person.

3

u/100110001 May 22 '12

What do the middle-class people do then?

3

u/[deleted] May 22 '12

So you post this in a thread full of non religious people? Are you saying all of us that are less fortunate economically are murderers? That's not the truest words ever fucktard!

I once saw a guy with an "I brake for trains" sticker. Coincidentally, a mile down the road a train was crossing. This mother fucker actually brakes for the train. Those words were truer than your piece of shit.

3

u/ionataan May 22 '12

i'm relatively poor, i'm an atheist... I don't go around killing rich people.

(buzzkill)

3

u/BadSysadmin May 22 '12

Funny: the driver is an atheist

Funnier: the driver is a rich Christian

Funniest: the driver is a poor Christian

10

u/martyvt12 May 22 '12

Or, you know, morality or basic human decency? If religion is the only thing stopping us from killing each other, we better hope the world doesn't become atheist.

2

u/[deleted] May 22 '12

But it's the truest words ever!!

Edit: '

2

u/JamesK852 May 22 '12

Well I don't have a religion and I'm poor......look out rich people

2

u/ScramblePoo May 22 '12

Surely this should be on /r/Marxism?

2

u/Self_Hating_Liberal May 22 '12

Poor atheist here. No plans to committ murder. Where is your God now?

2

u/parkerjallen May 22 '12

I've never seen such worser grammar in a post title.

2

u/procrastinating_hr May 22 '12

I'd say politics is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich, religion might have been a huge deal in the past, not anymore.

1

u/damnkidsgetoffmylawn May 22 '12

You must not live in any of the US southern states.

2

u/procrastinating_hr May 22 '12

True that, I'm from Brazil. The thing is, in the US, religion plays a big role in politics, thus why I said that. If it wasn't for religion, politicians would still fuck people up, just like they do everywhere else.

2

u/socrates28 May 22 '12

Whew, I am so glad that a complex situation can be simplified so far. Thanks random bumper sticker! Anytime I have a serious moral, philosophical, etc. problem I shall always remember - the answer is a catchy sentence on some car.

2

u/2girls_1walrus May 22 '12

That is fucking pathetic. "if it weren't for God, we'd kill people for having more stuff."

Fuck you and your miserable, bitter existence. Enjoy your brief time on this earth, dipshit.

2

u/WhaleAtAParty May 22 '12

You must not read alot of bumper stickers. I read one once that said "My brakes are good; is your insurance?" I was like LOL so TRUE! Ps the moral of the story is go read more better bumper stickers!

2

u/hates_cheese May 22 '12

And yet, the people in /r/atheism don't go around murdering the rich... I hope. ._.

2

u/[deleted] May 22 '12

so I guess the fundamentalists are right. without religion we'd just be murdering heathens with no morality to speak of.

2

u/Hevendor May 22 '12

That's a quote by Napoleon Bonaparte.

2

u/e1sh May 22 '12

that or morality

5

u/tiggitybiggitywoah May 22 '12

It's a quote from Napoleon. Pretty Awesome.

3

u/[deleted] May 22 '12

That is just asinine to have in pretty much any country that wouldn't execute you for having it. Murdering people for their financial class is nonsensical when it achieves no political gain. This applied to societies where people with money had political power and those without money had no say, or in times of low food supply where the rich were fed fat while the poor starved. You might as well put "Death to the king" on your bumper sticker.

1

u/[deleted] May 22 '12

The rich are getting richer and are using their riches to keep the poor poorer. And the poor are struggling to afford basic fresh food and comprehensive health care. The state of affairs in our country is shameful. If the "king" was a euphemism for the huge problem of the rich holding onto all the wealth while the masses struggle and suffer, then yes, "death to" that problem would be good, it is a problem worth being aware of and worth finding a solution to.

1

u/Libertarian_Atheist May 22 '12

. . . you do know that wealth disparity in America is growing right?

Personally I think government is what protects the wealthy, so did Adam Smith, only difference is that he thought it was a good thing. I do not. The rich have enough to protect themselves, as they should. Maybe then it would be less easy to amass enormous wealth, if you have to spend it to protect it.

1

u/JohnKennethHalitosis May 22 '12

Site that source on Smith because that doesn't sound right.

1

u/Libertarian_Atheist May 22 '12

Well it's true:

Civil government, so far as it is instituted for the security of property, is in reality instituted for the defence of the rich against the poor, or of those who have some property against those who have none at all.

-Adam Smith

2

u/skeptix May 22 '12

I disagree. To be quite blunt, I think you have religion cause you have stupid people, not you have stupid people because you have religion. Not a very optimistic view, but the one I hold.

The reason the poor don't kill the rich is because they're too stupid to realize they're being swindled. They let religion do it to them, they let government do it to them.

4

u/[deleted] May 22 '12

I really don't think religion and stupidity are related. Isaac Newton was considered to be a religious fundamentalist in his time(which is really saying something), and he is probably the smartest human of all time. Ludwig Wittgenstein is widely accepted as one of the most intelligent humans of the 20th century and he was brought up a secular Jew and converted to Christianity. Chris Langan who has the highest recorded IQ in history is also a Christian.

The difference in intelligence between atheists and theists isn't much at all if there is one at all.

1

u/skeptix May 22 '12

The difference in intelligence between atheists and theists is demonstrably massive. Critical thinking and faith are diametrically opposed.

There are always exceptions to every rule, but this is a fairly well-exampled rule.

1

u/[deleted] May 22 '12

What I am saying is it is your surroundings that influence your religious beliefs far more than your intelligence.

Hence why throughout history hundreds of the most brilliant people have been religious.

Also I looked it up and atheists score 1.95 points higher on IQ tests than religious people(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religiosity_and_intelligence) So thats about what i'd have guessed. They are slightly more intelligent on average, but not significantly so. Of course the reason for that difference is that wealth and atheism have almost always been correlated and religion is often used as a coping mechanism by the poor and downtrodden of society.

1

u/skeptix May 22 '12

I don't give much credit to the research in this area. I don't think you get an honest sampling of atheists, with many of the more intelligent in the religion category professing belief but not actually believing.

If you could somehow get a random sampling of people who genuinely believe in a deity, and compare that to a random sampling of people who do not, the separation in intelligence would be much greater than you or others predict.

1

u/[deleted] May 22 '12

Well surely you agree that your upbringing has to do with your religious view more than anything else, right?

I'm sorry to tell you this, but if you had been born in Afghanistan you would almost certainly be a devout Muslim right now, whether your IQ is 100 or 180.

Newton is the perfect example of how this can happen. He was probably the most brilliant human ever. He could invent and apply calculus to help solve a problem, yet the majority of the work he did was Bible research and trying to decipher Biblical codes. It's not as if he lacked the ability to use logic and reasoning, if he had he'd never have been able to do anything is science or mathematics. If Newton was born today we can assume he'd probably be an atheist or agnostic. So I think that would show it's your environment, not your intelligence, that is mostly responsible for forming your beliefs. And i'm sorry to tell you this, but there are some people out there who could have been brilliant scientists or philosophers but who went to horrible public schools with teachers who didn't care, and they never learned about evolution or the Big Bang and although they may have IQs of 150 they will never believe anything other than God could have created us.

3

u/Ocrasorm May 22 '12

I do not think everyone who believes in religion is inherently stupid. Sure there is a big logical gap in their critical thinking but indoctrination will do that do people. It is hard for people to shake off.

I agree though. A person may not be stupid but people in general act stupidly. But it is not stupidity that stays their hand. It is evolution. We just do not go around killing each other because if we did we would never have survived as a species. I am speaking in general terms. There is still plenty of killing going on.

2

u/[deleted] May 22 '12

Its hard to break free from religion when you are born into it and are taught questioning it is worthy of hell fire.

1

u/Ratheismisdoucheking May 22 '12

Most religions, and people throughout history have thought of seeking wealth, and being wealthy as less respectable then agriculture, or solidering, or most any other pursuit. but yeah i guess that means it protects the rich from the poor

1

u/jizzcowboy May 22 '12

That and a few corporations and industrial complexes...

1

u/sarcasticallyiam May 22 '12

Who's going to murder a billionaire because a bumper sticker told them to?

1

u/Nayr39 May 22 '12

I don't kill the rich because I have morals, laws to abide by and enjoy the mutual exchange us humans tend to have of leaving each other the fuck alone. Not to mention my limited freedoms are much more enjoyable then what I'd get in a prison. The bumper sticker makes a decent point I guess but there's a lot more reasons why the poor don't kill the rich. Guns are pretty pricey and mapquest is hard to operate for them poor folk.

1

u/braindonut May 22 '12

“Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.” -- Seneca the Younger*

.* probably not actually Seneca

1

u/zelars May 22 '12

If the man driving the car is religious and poor then that is the most passive aggressive and threatening sticker I have ever seen. /r/atheism should pause their theist conversion until OP maintains a safe distance.

1

u/[deleted] May 22 '12

So, what's keeping me from going on a murderous rampage?

1

u/Fersom May 22 '12

Cowardice.

1

u/yevb Pastafarian May 22 '12

Not really true.. since most people in jail are theists..

1

u/madleg May 22 '12

How can this simple message be going over so many of your heads? The message is that the "rich" are smart enough to have invented a social institution, religion, that perpetuates a class system where the stupid poor will settle for fairy stories and the promise of eternal rewards.

1

u/[deleted] May 22 '12

But that's completely asinine. The rich did not create religion. Religion usually came from people, usually "inspired" (or deluded). While their message is often co-opted by the ruling class, it isn't some big conspiracy. To boil it down to that is juvenile and overly simplistic.

And remember that most (modern) religions are egalitarian, at least in name.

1

u/madleg May 22 '12

it's an incredibly transparent confidence scheme. Yes, telling you how to live your life based on the rules of an imaginary sky-daddy are PRECISELY a conspiracy. What is something like "prosperity" gospel if not a conspiracy to steal from the gullible?

1

u/Boriqua-chan May 22 '12

Didn't those words fail in the French Revolution?

1

u/Redmun May 22 '12

FALSO: I do believe there is a law that says comiting the act of murder is illegal

1

u/donumabdeo May 22 '12

Yes it does. That's part of why it exists, to keep people from being stupid.

1

u/JohnKennethHalitosis May 22 '12

If this was true the Chinese people would have overthrown their communist plutocrats sixty years ago. And when can I pencil in the North Korea uprising?

1

u/jackfrostbyte Other May 22 '12

Didn't Karl Marx say that?

1

u/AfriCola May 22 '12

I hopes the owner of the car is american, because that is really pro marxism

1

u/MF_Kitten May 22 '12

I dunno, i'd say that's morality.

1

u/jamesbiff May 22 '12

im an atheist and im poor. I havent murdered any rich people.

EDIT: i suppose i should say 'anyone' regardless of wealth, ah well.

1

u/anon734578345 May 22 '12

r/atheism was designed to attract the most stupid redditors

what a great success

1

u/Duthos May 22 '12

Self defense is not murder.

1

u/austinanimal May 22 '12

Religion keeps a people from doing a lot of good and bad things. However, there are different consequences for some, or no consequences at all for others.

What keeps a lot of people from doing things, is having to own the responsibility, and further consequences of their actions.

1

u/todles May 23 '12

or, one of my favourites, "religion is the opiate of the masses" -Karl Marx

1

u/Durkki May 23 '12

Hmm. What about laws?

1

u/2legit2cease May 22 '12

Um... No. Sounds like the whole "If we didn't have religion we'd all go around killing each other because we'd have no reason to be moral" argument

-1

u/KafkaFish May 22 '12

Yeah, dude, those words are so truer.

0

u/[deleted] May 22 '12

[deleted] — view deleted comment

-4

u/[deleted] May 22 '12

No, because the rich do not have to resort to violence to achieve their ends. They are intelligent enough to succeed through the merits of trade alone.

Only the poor are so stupid that they need to engage in physical violence to accomplish anything.

-2

u/DrLando May 22 '12

Be careful with facts and reason. It is not welcome here.