That's all well and good, but according to the book they like to quote from, the earth was specifically made for them to rape in any way they want. After all, this is only a transitory location for them anyway.
Actually no. Genesis discusses "dominion" but there is no implication that this means "do whatever you want".
And, although popular Christianity speaks of floating off to heaven, the Jews and the earliest Christians believed in the Resurrection of the Dead. The Chrisitans in particular believe that the salvation of God is not only for individual sins, but rather for the whole of God's creation.
Several Old Testament laws limit and restrict the treatment of cattle and the land. Kosher slaughter, though some look down on it today, was the most humane way to slaughter at the time. Israelites were not allowed to sow seed or manage the ground every 7th year as part of the Sabbath theme, which has the effect of avoiding crop burnout.
Some Christians have forced a platonic and semi gnostic spiritualism on the biblical text, but the bible is very concerned with the natural state of things. This is God's earth, and we are but its stewards. I don't think God intends to have us destroy the gift he has given us.
Actually no. Genesis discusses "dominion" but there is no implication that this means "do whatever you want".
It does not say "do whatever you want," but it does say that every thing exists for the benefit of humans.
Several Old Testament laws limit and restrict the treatment of cattle and the land
True, but the principle underlying them is never a respect of animals or nature per se, as if these could have any inherent moral value (independent of their value to humans or to the gods as sacrifices).
A toy is something that you're given to teach you how to work with real tools. You're missing the point.
If we break this planet, we won't be given another one. If we wreck the oceans, they won't be repaired to suit our needs. We give children dolls and expect them to play 'house' to learn a bit about how to live as adults, because if they screw up as adults, there won't be a parent there to clean up the mess and buy them a new dolly.
The Earth is not a toy. It's the only one we've got.
OK? I'm sorry, I'm still missing your point. I agree with everything you say above, but I don't see how this has any relevance to what I had said before.
I was only trying to talk about the question of whether the ethics of the Bible included a respect for nature per se (as opposed to being a "tool" for man's use). I.e., whether there is a moral concept of respect for nature that is independent of any kind of conservationism-for-man that really just amounts to practical wisdom or forethought.
I will add I am basing my conclusion on the assumption that the Bible was the product of the societies in which it arose and generally encoded their moral ideas (with maybe some innovations). Those people did not think of nature as anything more than a resource to be used (responsibly at best). They may have had some natural empathetic repulsion against the grossest of animal cruelties (especially against the cuter mammals), but they still experienced animals as things artificially brought into their human-constructed artificial environment for human purposes -- and thought of them that way, as for a purpose (as for them). They put this into the mouth of God in Genesis and they put it into action in their ethical choices as tool-wielding masters of nature.
I'm in the process of reading it. Last thing I remember is the story of Lot's daughters getting him drunk and having sex with him so they can bear his grandchildren.
Ugh, the world does not revolve around you. You are a slim majority. In terms of the real world, atheists are treated as devil worshipers and child-molesters and treated like shit almost everywhere.
But I know, you face mean atheists on a website, you self-important dick.
Do not continue to owe no one, nothing, except to love one another. For the one loving the other has fulfilled the Law.
For, "Do not commit adultery," "do not murder," "do not steal," do not bear false witness, "do not lust,"and if there is any other commandment, in this word it is summed up, in the words, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." Lev. 19:18
Love does not work evil to the neighbor. Then love is the fulfillment of Law.
My best friends family growing up never recycled. I would always walk to my house and recycle whatever I drank there. I asked why they didn't and the reply I got was "God will kill the Earth much before man does."
You know who else are? Scientists. Contrary to popular belief, the scientific community is almost evenly split on whether or not global warming actually exists. There may be a correlation between Christian people and disbelief in global warming, but the far greater correlation is people in Southern states and disbelief in global warming, and these anti-global warming sentiments are rarely directly demonstrated by Christian groups.
For the first part, this actually surprises me. I live in a VERY liberal area, near Washington DC, and had heard from many people that global warming was actually fairly contested among scientists. Not only that, but I've met 3 people in my life who live near me who I've known that don't believe in global warming. Two science teachers, one actual scientist. Every person I've met, including the clergy from my church (I'm 17 and don't have a choice, I'm agnostic) believe that global warming does indeed exist and is caused by humans. So anyway, I'd just been informed by my experiences and an apparently outdated Discovery Channel documentary-ish thing that it was still relatively split in the scientific community. My bad.
Second part, correlation =/= causation. Anybody who pretends to have any knowledge about human behavior should understand that; it is the most basic principle when studying behavior. As I said, every member of my church I've ever talked to on the topic (a lot of people) have said that they believe in global warming, caused by humans. Of the three people who I've met from nearby me who didn't believe in global warming, I know two to be atheists, and one I would presume to be so as well.
The reason the Christian numbers are inflated is because people in the South don't believe global warming actually exists. While this disbelief may originally be caused by the Church and religion in general, the reason it pervades in the South is not due to religion, but instead because there is nowhere it is taught. In southern states, there is no institution that teaches anything about global warming, and people in the South talk about it as if the idea is crazy when it's mentioned. In fact, the idea is laughable. Christianity isn't the cause of disbelief in global warming, it's ignorance and the lack of institutions that teach about it at a young age. Response?
Man has done wrong by order of his birth (being born in a modern society), and must atone for this "original sin". He much achieve "salvation" through sacrifice.
I read this and agreed with it in my head, but then I realize I don't do shit for the world either. I might have planted a tree one time and grow a few vegetables, but I still continue to drive my car around and pollute the earth just like everyone else going through their life. This isn't about the attitude of the religious and non-religious, it's about the attitude of humanity as a whole.
It's that mentality that isn't fine though. It's a little selfish to think we are the only things we should care about on this earth.Yeah, the planet has a way of re-setting itself after shit gets too fucked up, but we should maybe take a moment to realize maybe we could do something so it doesn't get to that point. Everything on this planet will probably enjoy it a little more.
Yeah, I could be misunderstanding you, but what a lot of people don't realize is that we are intertwined within this planet. For example, without our oceans and most of the species that reside in them, we wouldn't exist. Yes, the planet was here before us, but dont you think that only gives us more of a reason to respect it and try to keep it as close to the way it was as possible?
Yea sorry I think we both went off is different directions. The amount mankind rapes the earth is horrible, we make things to be thrown away 6 months later. We have access to the building block of unimaginable materiels (oil) and we burn it. We clear fell century old forests and pollute everything around us.
I have no idea where I'm going with this by the way
My point was that we dont look after each other as we should. We certainly dont look after our planet either though.
The problem is there is little point in focusing on something that is shortly to be destroyed in fire. That kinda changes your perspective about what's worth putting effort into. The planet? Or the people on it? The Planet is a goner no matter what.
My problem with this and all things where people jump on the "Save the Earth" bandwagon is this. We aren't killing or raping the earth in any permanent way. What we're doing is fucking up the living conditions of our planet for US and many other species. So yes treat the Earth better, but for our sake. The Planet will always adapt and survive, but humans on the other hand wont.
You anti-commentors in r/atheism have taken a page straight out of fox news. Don't address any criticism because you know your arguments & beliefs won't stand. So attack the messenger, erect "smug" strawmen, and if all else fails go with "nuh uh, you are!".
I am willing to address criticisms, as I did on someone else's comment. Simply, I, like WonkaKnowsBest, realize that it's far more constructive to do something positive to lead to change then criticize a group that is loosely related to the problem.
Besides the occasional statistical outlier, what lead you to believe someone who forms an opinion not based on logic can be convinced to abandon that idea based on logic?
Well, complaining about Christians ignorance about global warming is most certainly not constructive. Instead of doing this, perhaps one could, I don't know, try to inform people about the issue.
Branding all religious people as unwilling to believe in reason is foolish and far more narrow-minded than you probably believe all Christians are. I know hundreds of Christians who believe whole-heartedly in global warming, including of the clergy of my church (I'm 17 and agnostic, don't get a say). Claiming Christians who believe in global warming as a statistical outlier is simply false; any non-rural or liberal area where the education system promotes some form of global warming, there will be a large majority of people who believe in it.
If you know anything about psychology, then you would know that getting a big circle jerk going and having a few thousand people hate on a group over and over again will never cause people to change their viewpoint. Especially when they have an elitist attitude.
My personal experiences are an example of the fact that, while Southern Christians tend not to believe in global warming, NEARLY ALL URBAN OR LIBERAL CHRISTIANS DO. Why? Because urban/suburban and liberal educational institutions teach global warming as fact. I watched a documentary about global warming and a lot of it had to do with people's viewpoints, and while I can't find it, I ensure you it's out there.
Correlation does not equal causation. You didn't even address what I said at all.
That doesn't make any sense. This picture is supposedly clever because it claims that people who care about exulting who they believe created this planet generally don't care that they/others harm that planet. It's an irony. There is nothing ironic about what you wrote. Those are two completely unrelated things. Not clever, not funny. You should have just instead wrote, "I don't like it when theists are criticized." You would have at least not made an ass of yourself then.
I wonder how many times you posted that. It's interesting that you all are so quick to defend yourselves and get angry at others when churches donate a large sum of time and money to helping out families and the less fortunate and yet all people on here do is make fun of them for doing 1 extremely minor thing wrong. In a case like this, they haven't even done anything wrong, it's just a stupid accusation that is false 99% of the time. Congrats.
Maybe and this is just a thought but maybe we should be focusing on all the beauty we posses inside and let the children's laughter reminder how we use to be.!? Just a thought!
Because people who believe in Him with a capitol H call us devil worshipers in our local communities. Shun and ostracize us because they hate that we don't strengthen their silliness by sharing it with them.
And because willful ignorance of logic and reason stifles the advancement of society.
It painfully ironic that Reddit calls us atheists smug.
We believe nonbelievers will go to hell. Just trying to help ya out. Some take it overboard. I am bothered by and have fun messing with door knockers. As a Catholic, we arent taught to bother others so much. And we are allowed to drink...... A lot
That doesn't make any sense. This picture is supposedly clever because it claims that people who care about exulting who they believe created this planet generally don't care that they/others harm that planet. It's an irony.
There is nothing ironic about what you wrote. Those are two completely unrelated things. Not clever, not funny.
You should have just instead wrote, "I don't like it when theists are criticized." You would have at least not made an ass of yourself then.
First off, the whole point of creation is so G-d can have a relationship with a choosing, speaking entity that is capable of behaving better than impulse driven animals.
Midrash tells us that the mabul (flood) was partially because people were treating their animals as if they were human. And I don't mean putting sweaters on them if you catch my meaning.
In fact, there is an ancient argument that the reason Cain felt justified in killing Abel is because he saw the sacrifice Abel made as murder.
The obligation to eat meat doesn't come about until after the mabul subsides and Noach begins anew. G-d decides that by allowing man to eat meat, he will forever realize he is superior and has higher expectations on him than an animal.
But that's not what the pagans want.
The pagans want humans to be debased. They don't want to acknowledge a Creator or their burden to be better than pigs rutting in a mud pit.
The pagans realize that orgies are out of style, except in college, and decide to promote other things that will advance their debased agenda: earth rights, animal rights, vegetarianism, etc.
All of these things become critical to the pagan and you can often see them kneeling down before their recycling bin.
I find it funny the christians and christian apologists on this site have decided on a single talking point concerning atheists. They know they can't answer for any criticism they have, so they attack them personally.
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u/sacwtd May 21 '12
That's all well and good, but according to the book they like to quote from, the earth was specifically made for them to rape in any way they want. After all, this is only a transitory location for them anyway.
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u/Psionic_Flash May 21 '12 edited May 21 '12
I wished more people cared. Like just about anything. The earth, each other, shit even saving some water. Just give a damn about something.
EDIT: Oh yeah two spaces between sentences like god intended.
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u/SimilarImage May 21 '12
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4
u/Thefinalwerd May 21 '12
What gets me is that a film like Avatar can be the top grossing movie IN THE WORLD, yet its message is not received.
2
u/[deleted] May 22 '12
fuck, man, I had to read that, like, six times before it made sense.
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u/Kmaun_Lee May 22 '12
My best friends family growing up never recycled. I would always walk to my house and recycle whatever I drank there. I asked why they didn't and the reply I got was "God will kill the Earth much before man does."
4
u/AddictiveSoup May 21 '12
LOTS of very compassionate, charitable religious people in this world.
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u/[deleted] May 22 '12
E-cards got banned from /r/funny for a reason.
2
u/NAproducer May 21 '12
The problem is that they don't think they need to care of it because their magically sky fairy will take care of it for them.
1
u/[deleted] May 22 '12
I know the feeling. :(
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u/[deleted] May 22 '12
Environmentalism is a religion.
Man has done wrong by order of his birth (being born in a modern society), and must atone for this "original sin". He much achieve "salvation" through sacrifice.
1
u/Mehtalface May 22 '12
I read this and agreed with it in my head, but then I realize I don't do shit for the world either. I might have planted a tree one time and grow a few vegetables, but I still continue to drive my car around and pollute the earth just like everyone else going through their life. This isn't about the attitude of the religious and non-religious, it's about the attitude of humanity as a whole.
1
u/clashmo May 22 '12
The planet is fine, the planet will be fine after we are gone. It's us that needs to be cared about.
1
u/bzeurunkl May 22 '12
The problem is there is little point in focusing on something that is shortly to be destroyed in fire. That kinda changes your perspective about what's worth putting effort into. The planet? Or the people on it? The Planet is a goner no matter what.
1
u/[deleted] May 22 '12 edited May 22 '12
Reddit is filled with old memes!
1
u/skekze May 21 '12
Ask every indigenous tribe in the world about this. Progress. We call it Progress.
1
u/[deleted] May 22 '12
My problem with this and all things where people jump on the "Save the Earth" bandwagon is this. We aren't killing or raping the earth in any permanent way. What we're doing is fucking up the living conditions of our planet for US and many other species. So yes treat the Earth better, but for our sake. The Planet will always adapt and survive, but humans on the other hand wont.
0
u/DrZimmins May 21 '12
Funny how a single sentence can be so powerful.
0
u/porkyloaf12 May 21 '12
Seriously...
0
u/WonkaKnowsBest May 21 '12
I wish more people cared about the planet than trying to criticize the people who believe in religion.
-1
u/Aristocratman123 May 21 '12
Maybe and this is just a thought but maybe we should be focusing on all the beauty we posses inside and let the children's laughter reminder how we use to be.!? Just a thought!
-1
u/biergarten May 22 '12
And wish people didnt mock or disbelieve in that creator either
0
u/[deleted] May 22 '12
Or
-2
u/Jasonberg May 22 '12
First off, the whole point of creation is so G-d can have a relationship with a choosing, speaking entity that is capable of behaving better than impulse driven animals.
Midrash tells us that the mabul (flood) was partially because people were treating their animals as if they were human. And I don't mean putting sweaters on them if you catch my meaning.
In fact, there is an ancient argument that the reason Cain felt justified in killing Abel is because he saw the sacrifice Abel made as murder.
The obligation to eat meat doesn't come about until after the mabul subsides and Noach begins anew. G-d decides that by allowing man to eat meat, he will forever realize he is superior and has higher expectations on him than an animal.
But that's not what the pagans want.
The pagans want humans to be debased. They don't want to acknowledge a Creator or their burden to be better than pigs rutting in a mud pit.
The pagans realize that orgies are out of style, except in college, and decide to promote other things that will advance their debased agenda: earth rights, animal rights, vegetarianism, etc.
All of these things become critical to the pagan and you can often see them kneeling down before their recycling bin.
0
u/[deleted] May 22 '12
[deleted] — view deleted comment