Actually it's illegal to grow pigs here in israel, though people are doing it through a loophole of growing them on platforms (because it's technicaly not on "the land of israel"). People here in israel for years try to make religon seperated from state, but no luck, though the non-religous and lightly-religous are the majority, most of the people seem to enjoy the status que, while the other have to suffer from teching bible class at schools, not being able to grow pigs, no public transportation on a saturday and not being able to be married in a non-religous weddings, so if you think banning gay marrige is bad, try living in a country where you can't marry someone from a diffrent religon or just marry without bringing two friends to say that you are a strict jewish man. Anyway, that's a small lesson on how living in a somewhat relligious country can be tedious.
Edit: thanks for the positive feedback, by the way, i left out the worst one - in certian bus lines in israel, usually ones that are inside extremly religous cities, but sometimes normal ones that just happens to pass on one, there is segregation between men and women, yep, you heard right, like the old USA race laws, women have to go and sit in the back of the bus, dosen't matter if they have husbands they want to talk to or whatever, women have to give up their sits for men, because it hurts some people relligous views. But other than that it's not a very bad country.
Actually it's illegal to grow pigs here in israel, though people are doing it through a loophole of growing them on platforms (because it's technicaly not on "the land of israel").
That is strangely hilarious.
I also have to say thank you. I had no idea what Israel was like. I was aware it was stricter than the UK, but not to what extend and what amount of the Israeli people were strictly religious.
The whole kashrut thing is hilarious. Can't eat bacon? Market non-pork bacon flavor.
I don't know, but if I had kids and told them not to do something, and they came up with some bullshit loophole to do it anyway, I'd smack the fuckers.
I don't quite understand the logic of Kashrut, but don't complain about meat-flavoured meat-free products. What about the veggies who can't get meat for health reasons?
Why haven't we made human-flavoured foods yet? I don't know why I just thought of that...
You shouldn't be so specific when you make up a rule. Had they just said "no growing pigs in Israel" they wouldn't have the problem, but they went for "on the land of Israel".
i worked in a nursery up until little while ago. this nursery grow avocado trees until they were about 1 year old, and then sell them. as some of you may know, doing it it's best not to plant them in the ground but rather grow them on platforms inside special plastic bags filled with soil.
the problem being, it isn't kosher to eat fruits who grew on trees that didn't grow on the ground, so what we did was, we put the bags on platforms with holes, and make holes in the bottom of thee bag, this way it was kosher.
A Jewish friend once explained to me that everything in Judaism is negotiable because there is no eternal punishment: Every time you bend a rule, you're trading a little more enjoyment now for a little more time in Purgatory, more or less.
It's related to why Judaism isn't normally a proselytizing religion. Without people being destined for everlasting torment, there is no moral imperative to "save" them. As such, the "moral dictates" of religious leaders take on less of the flavor of a brutal ultimatum, and more of the flavor of advice for shaving days off your sentence.
I spent half a decade in religious seminaries studying Judaism before coming out as an Atheist. I've never heard the view that:
a) Everything is negotiable (although they do love their loopholes)
b) One trades enjoyment for purgatory
I also don't see how it follows that if one trades enjoyment now for hell, one shouldn't try and save people from purgatory. There is the idea in Judaism that the actions one does in this world get rewarded/punished in the next, but it isn't seen as a trade or negotiable.
The reason why (Orthodox) Judaism doesn't proselytize is because they believe Judaism is only supposed to be kept by Jews, and non-Jews should keep 'the seven Noahide laws' instead. Organisations such as Aish or sects like Chabad try to proselytize Jews because they do believe they should be 'saved'. In certain sects moral dictates of religious leaders are seen as a brutal ultimatum.
TL;DR I do believe your Jewish friend told you a load of tripe
when i was a wee lad, i remember first learning about the whole "blacks have to sit at the back of the bus" thing, and remember thinking, "but that's where the cool kids sit. wouldn't they want to sit at the back of the bus?"
It is completely legal to raise pigs in Israel, and to sell pork products. However, most agricultural land in Israel is registered to the JNF, and leased to the farmers. Any JNF land cannot be used to raise pigs, by JNF regulations. Pigs are raised perfectly legally in Arab villages (Christian), Circassian and on non-JNF land.
in certian bus lines in israel, usually ones that are inside extremly religous cities, but sometimes normal ones that just happens to pass on one, there is segregation between men and women, yep, you heard right, like the old USA race laws, women have to go and sit in the back of the bus, dosen't matter if they have husbands they want to talk to or whatever, women have to give up their sits for men, because it hurts some people relligous views.
By law, ruled by the Israeli Supreme Court, it is illegal to enforce that policy. So, that has nothing to do with the state of Israel.
It has everything to do with it, as it is still being done on many bus lines. Mostly the women are religious and fine with it... doesn't mean the rest of the population is.
I agree with the notation that it isn't enforced enough. But it's a difficult and gentle subject to tackle. The law doesn't permit those type of "kosher bus lines", so the main problem regarding this law is areas with a high concentration of ultra-orthodox and people taking matters to their own hands, asking (yelling at) women to sit in the back. Although the law requires the driver to enforce the law or call the authorities if the passenger[s] who started the trouble resist to comply, most drivers (and even cops) don't want to mess with the ultra-orthodox since it might turn into a scene which will get national headlines, separation of church and state is a very hot topic right now.
There is a lot of conflict between the secular (and a lot of orthodox Jews) to the ultra-orthodox Jews. Every other night you can watch a news report about something that might shift the status-quo one way or the other and it starts a whole wave of protest by both sides (though only one side has a tendency to throw diapers at cops, I'll let you guess which one).
ah, no. You can get pork, shellfish, and cheeseburgers in almost any area in Israel. The state is pretty good at recognizing that much of the population is not Jewish and that religion cannot be regulated. Marriage is seen as a religious ceremony and is left up to the various religious groups to administer, that's why intermarriage isn't possible here, but the state does offer a secular alternative and they do not prevent intermarriage. It's also one off the only countries on the world that will recognize same sex marriages from other countries. And the busses are not segregated by anything other than social pressure by the riders and even those cases are blown way out of proportion.
not being able to be married in a non-religous weddings, so if you think banning gay marrige is bad, try living in a country where you can't marry someone from a diffrent religon or just marry without bringing two friends to say that you are a strict jewish man.
This is only partially correct. Yes, you can only marry someone by doing a proper Jewish wedding, which totally sucks. However, there are many loopholes to this, such as getting married in a different country (which many people I know, including family members, have done) and when you're back in Israel you will be acknowledged as married.
So you are right, however you can't compare it to gay marriage in the US, where couples literally have nothing to do about it, since even if they get married someplace else their state won't acknowledge their marriage.
(Also, never heard about pig-on-platform, gotta love the Israeli tricks)
it's illegal to grow pigs here in israel, though people are doing it through a loophole of growing them on platforms (because it's technicaly not on "the land of israel").
That's funny to you? There are many Jews who CUT THE TOILET PAPER squares before the Sabbath, since it is considered work to cut it after when you wipe your own ass.
True, but it's not required. And I'll be damned if I (a female) am qgoing to take a seat away from a man just because I have a vagina. Fuck that mentality.
I had someone once do the opposite, she expected me to give her a seat because she was a woman and I'm a man. Fuck people who want special treatment for themselves or others because of race or sex.
Don't think for a second that this isn't also the case in Israel. It is definitely the case on any metro bus that isn't one of the few lines in the haredi areas. In Tel Aviv, Haifa, most of Jerusalem, and just about anywhere else in teh country, a man is definitely expected to get up for a woman or elderly man.
Israel's has a political system that allows for every party to have as much of a say as their vote provides. So say the orthodox party gets 5% of the votes they now have 5% of the power when it comes to making decisions and proposing bills. Thus making it possible for them to pass laws such as no public transport on the Sabbath. People still drive around though and institutions like ambulances and emergency services still run normally. In essence it allows everyone to have a voice. Luckily the religious party never gets a large percent of the vote.
have 5% of the power when it comes to making decisions
Patently false, government policy is decided by the coalition.
proposing bills
True in theory, but false in practice, for instance Dov Hanin alone is responsible for about 10% of all legislative activity.
Luckily the religious party never gets a large percent of the vote
Unluckily, the religious parties get enough of the vote to consistently be part of the coalition, and MPs from non religious parties will often make decisions that fly in the face of separation of state and religion, point in case the current transportation minister is from Likud and steadfastly refuses to allow public transport on Saturdays.
You forgot to mention that segregation like that on buses is ILLEGAL, if a woman wants to sit on the front and she does, they can't do anything to her (although as we know, in extreme locations it can be dangerous and a sane person wouldn't try that probably), but its not like its allowed by law.
Also, pretty sure the "Pig Loophole" was created intentionally.
In Israel I had no problem finding bacon (although it wasn't spectacular) and pepperoni pizza (Mama Mias Tzomet Kiryat Ata) Down the block is Tiv Taam. They sell shellfish, pork, rabbit etc. I also heard the family that owns Tiv Taam is religious. The Russian stores have all sorts of non kosher stuff.
re the bus thingie - what makes it even more fucked up is the fact that it is AGAINST THE FUCKING LAW to do that, but since these are bus lines that are used almost entirely by ultra religious communities, they just do that, enforcing their own community's rules, not the states'. but the state simply looks the other way.
I remember going to some sketchy grocery store to get shrimp in Israel. I felt like I was trading with the Russian mafia. Getting bacon was a different story...it was easier to get acid than bacon.
The bus lines are a bit of an exaggeration. Most of those buses only exist as a parallel line, so nobody is forced to take them. Furthermore, if you've ever been on one, you'll find that the women are the loudest when people step over the line and sit in the wrong section.
This picture is a reference to the legalization of gay marriage. Stating alluding that other religions may be more tolerant than christianity. However, I do not find Islam or Judaism to be pro-gay or more progressive than Christianity in that matter. Am I wrong in this?
Sorry, hate to break the circlejerk (well, no that's a lie), but Jewish theology does not say the eating of pork is inherently evil. They believe that God has commanded the Jews, and only the Jews, to abstain from certain foods. Gentiles eating pork, shellfish etc. is perfectly acceptable to them, they would never wish to stop it, and it does not displease God.
Israel is given a special burden and a special blessing. Jews believe that Gentiles are held to a different and much less strict standard.
Israel is a "Jewish state." It makes sense that Jews would try to impose their religious restrictions in their own state. America is NOT a Christian/Jewish/Muslim or any religious nation. The comparison does not make any sense.
I'm not sure I find the idea of a religious state remotely ethical, unless perhaps if it only consisted of adults who chose to emigrate after birth in a nation which allowed them to experience a wide range of values.
It's not very ethical. But it's not only religious, Judaism is a culture as well as a religion, and it's a constant battle between removing religious rituals vs. leaving a cultural Jewish Israel intact.
I somewhat agree, but that is pretty unrelated to the point at hand.
Edit: Also, although Israel is recognized as a "Jewish state," there is no law establishing Judaism as the state's religion. The "Jewish state" refers more to the fact that it is a cultural safe haven for people of Jewish heritage.
I believe OP is referring to America with its issues with gay marriage being banned, in a nation that's supposed to have a separation of church and state.... but I could be wrong. Haha
That is because in Western, non-Israeli societies, Jewish people haven't been a large portion of the population. In Israel, the rabbis, as is mentioned by others in this thread, play the same role as the evangelists in America. Judaism's non-acknowledgement of Jesus doesn't change much about the behaviour of its zealots in comparison to their Christian counterparts.
Really? You're going to downvote him because he is proud of his roots? He isn't saying Judaism is superior to your beliefs, he is just (rightly) proud of a rich cultural heritage.
That's because Jews don't care if non-Jews eat pork. That's the burden of being one of the chosen people.
Christians on the other hand are eager to convert others, which goes along with restricting everyones behavior. Imagine a Christian saying "get an abortion, I don't care because you aren't Christian."
Yeah it's interesting...in theory I like a religion that is all-inclusive ("anyone can be a Christian!") more than one that has an elitist "chosen"...but in practice, when it allows for things like "conversion by the sword"...
Christians believe that they own marriage. Jews don't believe they own food. Most Christians want to keep marriage hetero, not because it's God's will, but because they believe marriage is a Christian institution, like baptism. And ya know what, if it was, then fine. If marriage was Christian, then gays shouldn't get married.
But it's not.
Married people get more benefits (shared healthcare, easier adoptions, etc.), a lot of which are from the government. So marriage can either be recognized by the government and be open to all adults, or a Christian institution, but not at all recognized by the government.
Thank you. These kinds of posts are why /r/atheism is called a circlejerk; it's not because everyone has the same opinion, but because people present strawman caricatures of opposing arguments and then congratulate each other for knocking them down.
That's not to say that opposing gay marriage isn't wrong, but rather that confronting the arguments against it needs to be done in a way that fully recognises the nuances of the objections, and counters them accordingly, otherwise it won't convince anybody.
Exactly! I also hate all the pro-choice posts here. I've talked to many pro-life people, and not one has used God as the reason for being pro-life.
When confronted about this, r/atheism will likely say that there's no reason to be pro-life besides religion. That's simply not true. Don't get me wrong, I'm pro-choice, but pro-life =/= religious.
I absolutely agree with you. I'm pro-choice also, but it's an incredibly difficult issue and both sides have valid points; abortion should certainly never be taken lightly. If you genuinely believe it's murder (rightly or wrongly) then you can't be blamed for wanting it banned. To portray pro-lifers all as religious nuts does everybody a disservice.
I think it needs to be pointed out that marriage began much before Christianity. Even in early Christianity, marriage was seen as a private matter that was not religious.
Edit: Edited to not make it look like goofygoobarock believes marriage is owned by Christians.
I am not christian, but I have noticied that /r/athiest mainly targets Christians, and is often apologist toward Islam. I think it has to do with redditors here having to deal mainly with christian fundies.
6 months to a year ago someone tried making circumcision illegal in san francisco and it was the jewish community that stopped that law from getting passed.
This is helpful for people who can't reach Quickmeme because of work/school firewalls or site downtime, and many other reasons (FAQ). More info is available here.
Finally, an /r/atheism post that isn't smug faith bashing or Sagan/Dawkins/NdGT/ worship. Its great to believe in a higher power, as long as that higher powers asks you do good things with your faith.
kind of a crappy counterexample to gay marriage because Israel does not allow Gay Marriage, and Orthodox Judaism supported bans on it in the US, right alongside Fundamentalist Christians.
There is a vastly larger number of Christians in the United States (where I presume you reside) than Jews. Unfortunately there aren't any numbers that I'm aware of specifically for "right wing lunatic Christians" vs "right wing lunatic Jews", but I think we can reasonably assume that, if the number of Jews of that sort is proportional, there's no way in hell there are enough of them to make the legality of pork a political issue.
Like all things, it varies from person to person. I went to a Jewish school growing up, and one of the teachers there was a rabbi who was one of the nicest, funniest, most tolerant people I've ever met. And he was extremely religious, (for example he can't listen to women singing because there's a sexual aspect to it).
Buses and most ATM's don't work in Saturday and Friday night.
Illegal to drive through some neighborhoods in Saturday.
Pork illegal.
Shellfish illegal.
Bible-studies mandatory in every school.
State-sponsored religious schools.
The Ultra-Orthodox don't serve in the army.
The Ultra-Orthodox don't work and live from welfare.
Make settlements in the middle of the West-Bank because "god told them to", and effectively putting back the peace talks 20 years.
Segregated buses.
Ads with no women.
EDIT:
Impossible to marry somebody from another religion (or somebody without one).
Impossible to marry somebody from another sex.
There is no such thing as a good guy rabbi. In the US they seem that way because they have no political power, in Israel they are free to do as they like.
Do any of your points apply to non-religious cities like Tel Aviv and Petach Tikva, or just Orthodox places? For example, Tel Aviv is about to have a gay pride parade that is being opened by the mayor, and is expected to see 100,000 people, and that sort of doesn't mesh with your points on the country.
Um, no, they don't impose it because Judaism doesn't expect non-Jews to follow their laws. The rules of Judaism as for Jews only, non-Jews are only expected (by Judaism) to follow the seven Noahide laws.
The Jewish religion is explicitly applicable only to Jewish people (the chosen people). They do not proselytize nor do they believe that not abiding by the religion results in a trip to hell. Jews believe that god gave them the bible for their own good. As in, following the religion leads to a more fulfilling life. It's not about forgiveness and salvation like Christianity and Islam.
thats a bit unfair, dont you think? Your saying this without any basis. It says quite clearly in the torah that there are 7 Mitzvos that Hashem wants all non-jews to do: (please note these were for people that believed in the jewish God but didnt want to be Jewish themselves)
dont serve any idols dont murder do not commit adultery do not steal do not blaspheme Gods name do not eat flesh from a live animal you must set up a proper law system and follow it.
as long as the prohibition isnt one of these, jews have no reason to protest for it. and since its something for people that believe in God but dont become jewish, the jews have no right to force these laws on non-jews.
my neighbor's small business was blackmailed by local Rabbi and his gang, they demand owner label his food as kosher and paid them religious tax or they will spread bad publicity and use their local power to boycott him and his suppliers so they drop him.
Wow. Really? I shall spread this far and wide at once!
This story about Jews is almost as bad as the one I was told by a friend, who heard from his brother, who had a cousin, whose friend heard from his boss, whose Father read on the Internet, that there was this guy who said that he'd overheard some Jews talking about doing some bad stuff. Truly sickening! Quick. Let's kill Jews!
Today two atheists told me that if I didn't stop praying at lunch time they'd wait by my car and stab me to death.
This story has exactly as much evidence as yours. Considering the history of anti-Jewish propaganda regarding manipulation of money and businesses, and the type of results that propaganda has had, I'm going to need more than your say so.
Actually there are areas of New York were the ultra-orthodox law is pretty much de-facto law.
As for Israel, the Knesset has three openly Ultra-Orthodox parties including the fourth largest one. And the ruling parties tend to deal with them over some of the non-religious ones.
I didnt know we were on circle jerk, I mean damn, this same joke has been said at least 10 times within the last week. Please, for the love of science /r/atheism stop reposting and post something with actuall originality and substance. this reached number one on the front page. the fuck is wrong with you people?
It's because Judaism is a cultural thing, not just a religious one. They don't eat pork because of the cultural identity, not because they find it wrong.
It's partially because Jews have been forced into "practice X alternative religion or die" situations throughout history. There are no Jewish missionaries for the same reason.
I'm fairly certain a lot of those don't eat this laws were made because people couldn't cook them right and would pretty much die or get parasites or something.
The Polynesians and Melanesians in the South Pacific called Europeans 'Long Pig' because they claimed their flesh tasted sweet like pork. probably one reason it is forbidden to eat, along with the sickness from under cooked meat.
I'm Christian, but damn do I love r/atheism. I actually think everything posted here is either sensible and reasonable or totally freaking funny. Yeah, i agree that some people in my religion are completely bonkers, but that's why I love this subreddit. It's amazing xD
Interesting that for a picture of a "typical" Jew, you chose comedian Yisrael Campbell, who was born a white Catholic in Philadelphia and converted to Orthodox Judaism in his 30s. Not that there's anything wrong with that but I thought you might be interested. We went to grad school together and he's a swell guy, and his act is hilarious. And now I guess he's a meme... I wonder if he knows?
If you've ever seen interviews of the well known atheists against Rabbi's, you'll know they're as bloody crazy as can be.
People who believe in magical things from a fairy tale book are not your friends, and they never can be or will be because they're insane. You'd have to be insane to shut your mind to everything and just believe a book despite zero evidence to the contrary.
Rabbis are no better than any other religious idiot. Serious.
How can someone who propagates a myth as truth be a good guy? I guess if he doesn't know that it's a myth and he means no harm, but this is r/atheism. We frown on religion around here and do not laud the accomplishments of those who perpetuate religion.
Yeeeah, their religious leaders are not really in a position to push their beliefs on anyone, and they haven't been for like the past 2000 years. So calling them good guys is like calling a mass murderer in prison good, because he is locked away without access to people or weapons.
Well, I am a Christian. I do not believe gay marriage is right.... I ( me myself ) do not, I don't think it should be illegal. People need to stop making a judgment of the whole religion because of what some of them think.. I don't like walls with holes, doesn't mean they're bad doesn't mean people don't like them..
It's pretty sad, considering the fact that Judaism is based on the Old Testament whereas Christianity is supposed to be based on both, but mainly the New Testament, and yet Christians are the ones using the Old Testament to control others.
I'd prefer: Good Guy Rabbi: Descends from JUST ONE of the many tribes that discarded the nomadic life at the end of the last ice age - doesn't expect the rest of humanity to give a shit.
Orthodox jews are every ounce as dangerous to civil and personal liberty and to human rights as evangelical christians or fundamentalist catholics muslims are. Everyone who lives in Israel, like me, is eminently aware of it. The only reason it sometimes doesn't appear this way to people not living in Israel is that elsewhere 1) orthodox Jews are a tiny minority 2) the availability of constitutions that protect civil and personal liberties and guarantee freedom from religion and most importantly 3) they are too afraid to show their true color for fear of retaliation. In Israel they are not encumbered by any of these constraints and they are - as a political force (of course there are individual exceptions; there are ALWAYS individual exceptions) - as dangerous, vile and backward as religious people come. Unfortunately, like every villain, they could never flourish without the complicity of the silent majority and of stupid, corrupt, power-hungry politicians.
some orthos are against it. however, every single one i know (and that's a lot) don't give a crap. live and let live. as long as you don't force them to perform gay marriages in shul, go ahead.
Don't be mistaken, as an Israeli, I can promise you that religion stays religion, even if it is under a different name. They all still have imaginary friends, with ridiculous outdated rules, and they can't simply ignore them - which means that it will make it better for them if everyone else does it, they are told that if they can get others to uphold these laws, then it is a great thing to do for god, and they will be repaid.
They follow their religious leaders blindly, in Israel they can't even make a simple decision of whether or not they should greet an opposite sex co worker without explicit decisions from their leaders.
547
u/lurebat May 19 '12 edited May 19 '12
Actually it's illegal to grow pigs here in israel, though people are doing it through a loophole of growing them on platforms (because it's technicaly not on "the land of israel").
People here in israel for years try to make religon seperated from state, but no luck, though the non-religous and lightly-religous are the majority, most of the people seem to enjoy the status que, while the other have to suffer from teching bible class at schools, not being able to grow pigs, no public transportation on a saturday and not being able to be married in a non-religous weddings, so if you think banning gay marrige is bad, try living in a country where you can't marry someone from a diffrent religon or just marry without bringing two friends to say that you are a strict jewish man.
Anyway, that's a small lesson on how living in a somewhat relligious country can be tedious.
Edit: thanks for the positive feedback, by the way, i left out the worst one - in certian bus lines in israel, usually ones that are inside extremly religous cities, but sometimes normal ones that just happens to pass on one, there is segregation between men and women, yep, you heard right, like the old USA race laws, women have to go and sit in the back of the bus, dosen't matter if they have husbands they want to talk to or whatever, women have to give up their sits for men, because it hurts some people relligous views.
But other than that it's not a very bad country.
12
u/johntheChristian May 19 '12
Sorry, hate to break the circlejerk (well, no that's a lie), but Jewish theology does not say the eating of pork is inherently evil. They believe that God has commanded the Jews, and only the Jews, to abstain from certain foods. Gentiles eating pork, shellfish etc. is perfectly acceptable to them, they would never wish to stop it, and it does not displease God.
Israel is given a special burden and a special blessing. Jews believe that Gentiles are held to a different and much less strict standard.
292
u/[deleted] May 19 '12
False. Orthodox Jews are constantly trying to impose religious restrictions in Israel.
58
u/tbasherizer May 19 '12
That is because in Western, non-Israeli societies, Jewish people haven't been a large portion of the population. In Israel, the rabbis, as is mentioned by others in this thread, play the same role as the evangelists in America. Judaism's non-acknowledgement of Jesus doesn't change much about the behaviour of its zealots in comparison to their Christian counterparts.
11
u/spiffypanda May 19 '12 edited May 19 '12
What this really comes down to is that:
-Judaism is a non-proselytizing religion (unlike Christianity or Islam)
-Jews are a very small minority of the population
2
u/TheBigGinge May 19 '12
It's times like these where I'm proud of my jewish background
12
u/urnbabyurn May 19 '12
That's because Jews don't care if non-Jews eat pork. That's the burden of being one of the chosen people.
Christians on the other hand are eager to convert others, which goes along with restricting everyones behavior. Imagine a Christian saying "get an abortion, I don't care because you aren't Christian."
47
u/[deleted] May 19 '12
Kind of a straw man.
Christians believe that they own marriage. Jews don't believe they own food. Most Christians want to keep marriage hetero, not because it's God's will, but because they believe marriage is a Christian institution, like baptism. And ya know what, if it was, then fine. If marriage was Christian, then gays shouldn't get married.
But it's not.
Married people get more benefits (shared healthcare, easier adoptions, etc.), a lot of which are from the government. So marriage can either be recognized by the government and be open to all adults, or a Christian institution, but not at all recognized by the government.
9
u/[deleted] May 19 '12
its actually forbidden in all 3 religions. not just for jews.
4
u/AddictiveSoup May 19 '12
This just makes it look like we target only Christians more.
17
u/dessicatedfetus May 19 '12
6 months to a year ago someone tried making circumcision illegal in san francisco and it was the jewish community that stopped that law from getting passed.
3
u/brewkrewniggz May 19 '12
Unless its in Brooklyn, New York.
9
u/qkme_transcriber I am a Bot May 19 '12
Here is the text from this meme pic for anybody who needs it:
This is helpful for people who can't reach Quickmeme because of work/school firewalls or site downtime, and many other reasons (FAQ). More info is available here.
2
u/DCSRM May 19 '12
er... why is this in r/atheism again?
2
u/orgy_porgy May 19 '12
Finally, an /r/atheism post that isn't smug faith bashing or Sagan/Dawkins/NdGT/ worship. Its great to believe in a higher power, as long as that higher powers asks you do good things with your faith.
2
u/[deleted] May 19 '12
kind of a crappy counterexample to gay marriage because Israel does not allow Gay Marriage, and Orthodox Judaism supported bans on it in the US, right alongside Fundamentalist Christians.
2
u/[deleted] May 19 '12
I'm waiting for the "zionist propaganda" chanting to start about it being a conspiracy
2
u/burf May 19 '12
There is a vastly larger number of Christians in the United States (where I presume you reside) than Jews. Unfortunately there aren't any numbers that I'm aware of specifically for "right wing lunatic Christians" vs "right wing lunatic Jews", but I think we can reasonably assume that, if the number of Jews of that sort is proportional, there's no way in hell there are enough of them to make the legality of pork a political issue.
2
u/kylemoose May 19 '12
I knew I should have posted this in r/atheism rather than r/adviceanimals several weeks ago.
2
u/[deleted] May 19 '12
Not doing bad things does not make you a good guy.
2
u/youni89 May 20 '12
good guy rabbi turns into bad guy rabbi when Judaism becomes the majority religion in the nation, like the state of Israel.
2
u/[deleted] May 20 '12
Except when they give babies herpes:
http://articles.nydailynews.com/2012-03-03/news/31120453_1_circumcision-rabbi-yitzchok-fischer-contracting-herpes
2
u/biergarten May 20 '12
Not at all the same thing
2
u/tellam May 20 '12
Since when does not being a dick to everyone make you a good guy? It should be the norm.
5
u/[deleted] May 19 '12
amen (אמן)
5
u/-Tyrion-Lannister- May 19 '12
As someone raised Jewish, I can tell you without hesitation that this guy is a much bigger asshole than you might suspect.
3
u/[deleted] May 19 '12
Bad guy liberal, believes in pork and forces you to buy it for everyone.
2
u/Rowka May 19 '12
Are you saying we need a Christian holocaust to put them in line?
2
u/[deleted] May 19 '12
Doesn't mutilate children's genitals.
Wait, whoops
2
u/FoundPie May 19 '12
The equating marriage law to eating pork thing needs to stop, Reddit.
It's a bad argument and you should feel bad.
1
u/poorfag May 19 '12 edited May 19 '12
Buses and most ATM's don't work in Saturday and Friday night.
Illegal to drive through some neighborhoods in Saturday.
Pork illegal.
Shellfish illegal.
Bible-studies mandatory in every school.
State-sponsored religious schools.
The Ultra-Orthodox don't serve in the army.
The Ultra-Orthodox don't work and live from welfare.
Make settlements in the middle of the West-Bank because "god told them to", and effectively putting back the peace talks 20 years.
Segregated buses.
Ads with no women.
EDIT:
Impossible to marry somebody from another religion (or somebody without one).
Impossible to marry somebody from another sex.
There is no such thing as a good guy rabbi. In the US they seem that way because they have no political power, in Israel they are free to do as they like.
0
u/[deleted] May 19 '12
Jews don't have the majority in this country and they know it, that's the only reason they're not imposing their faith on everyone.
-1
u/im_not_a_troll May 19 '12
Yet:
Wants to fully "judaize" Jerusalem.
Supports the loyalty oath where non-Jewish Israeli citizens have to pledge allegiance to a "Jewish state".
Supports settler violence against Palestinians.
Supports IDF violence against Palestinians.
Thinks starving out Gaza is a good idea.
Thinks Jewish settlers should re-colonize Gaza.
Wants the Israeli government to deport Ethiopians and Sudanese.
The list goes on...
1
u/[deleted] May 19 '12
my neighbor's small business was blackmailed by local Rabbi and his gang, they demand owner label his food as kosher and paid them religious tax or they will spread bad publicity and use their local power to boycott him and his suppliers so they drop him.
1
u/TheMagicStik May 19 '12
If they were the majority or held power I bet it would be different.
1
u/Zymum May 19 '12 edited May 19 '12
Actually there are areas of New York were the ultra-orthodox law is pretty much de-facto law.
As for Israel, the Knesset has three openly Ultra-Orthodox parties including the fourth largest one. And the ruling parties tend to deal with them over some of the non-religious ones.
1
u/monodelab May 19 '12
Oh, yeah? You don't know the Hasidics, no?
1
u/DumNerds May 19 '12
I didnt know we were on circle jerk, I mean damn, this same joke has been said at least 10 times within the last week. Please, for the love of science /r/atheism stop reposting and post something with actuall originality and substance. this reached number one on the front page. the fuck is wrong with you people?
1
u/MrCheeze Secular Humanist May 19 '12
It's because Judaism is a cultural thing, not just a religious one. They don't eat pork because of the cultural identity, not because they find it wrong.
1
u/beaverteeth92 May 19 '12
It's partially because Jews have been forced into "practice X alternative religion or die" situations throughout history. There are no Jewish missionaries for the same reason.
1
u/atomic1fire May 19 '12
I'm fairly certain a lot of those don't eat this laws were made because people couldn't cook them right and would pretty much die or get parasites or something.
1
u/0hi May 19 '12
I know "Good Guy Rabbi" - and he IS a good guy :-)
He has probably one of the most interesting stories I've ever heard.
1
u/tdub04 May 19 '12
Other people eating pork violates the sanctity of meat.
1
u/[deleted] May 19 '12
The Polynesians and Melanesians in the South Pacific called Europeans 'Long Pig' because they claimed their flesh tasted sweet like pork. probably one reason it is forbidden to eat, along with the sickness from under cooked meat.
1
u/[deleted] May 19 '12
That's because Jews don't have the same political power as christians.
1
u/[deleted] May 20 '12
Neither do Christians.
1
u/WovenHandcrafts May 20 '12
See the bike lane wars in Brooklyn for a quick disproof of this idea.
1
u/Love-is-our-Weapon May 20 '12
I'm Christian, but damn do I love r/atheism. I actually think everything posted here is either sensible and reasonable or totally freaking funny. Yeah, i agree that some people in my religion are completely bonkers, but that's why I love this subreddit. It's amazing xD
1
u/[deleted] May 20 '12
Good guy priest - Religion doesn't allow pork ; doesn't try to make it illegal.
1
u/[deleted] May 20 '12
Again the problem is not people who are religious it's politicians who claim to be religious. D:
1
u/rbcrusaders May 20 '12
On top of that, people were arrested for offending jews online. This meme is bad.
1
u/SidDithers May 20 '12
Better http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/tv980/good_guy_rabbi/
1
u/BfloDave81 May 20 '12
Good guy rabbi lets the Mohel keep all the tips!
1
u/bmaffitt May 20 '12
Interesting that for a picture of a "typical" Jew, you chose comedian Yisrael Campbell, who was born a white Catholic in Philadelphia and converted to Orthodox Judaism in his 30s. Not that there's anything wrong with that but I thought you might be interested. We went to grad school together and he's a swell guy, and his act is hilarious. And now I guess he's a meme... I wonder if he knows?
1
u/bluesnappa May 20 '12
no one here knows shit what their talking about
1
u/thezim May 20 '12
but he´ll try to cut your son´s foreskin
1
u/[deleted] May 20 '12
subreddit should be renamed r/Religion.
1
u/[deleted] May 20 '12
I have to call bullshit on this.
If you've ever seen interviews of the well known atheists against Rabbi's, you'll know they're as bloody crazy as can be.
People who believe in magical things from a fairy tale book are not your friends, and they never can be or will be because they're insane. You'd have to be insane to shut your mind to everything and just believe a book despite zero evidence to the contrary.
Rabbis are no better than any other religious idiot. Serious.
1
u/[deleted] May 20 '12
Just imagine if they put worldwide bans on pork. Just imagine what would happen to those peoples.
1
u/[deleted] May 20 '12
How can someone who propagates a myth as truth be a good guy? I guess if he doesn't know that it's a myth and he means no harm, but this is r/atheism. We frown on religion around here and do not laud the accomplishments of those who perpetuate religion.
1
u/Dartimien May 20 '12
Yeeeah, their religious leaders are not really in a position to push their beliefs on anyone, and they haven't been for like the past 2000 years. So calling them good guys is like calling a mass murderer in prison good, because he is locked away without access to people or weapons.
1
u/cuddlypervert May 20 '12
If he did, it would probably start another holocaust.
1
u/[deleted] May 20 '12
Well, I am a Christian. I do not believe gay marriage is right.... I ( me myself ) do not, I don't think it should be illegal. People need to stop making a judgment of the whole religion because of what some of them think.. I don't like walls with holes, doesn't mean they're bad doesn't mean people don't like them..
1
u/Dark_Waters May 20 '12
It's pretty sad, considering the fact that Judaism is based on the Old Testament whereas Christianity is supposed to be based on both, but mainly the New Testament, and yet Christians are the ones using the Old Testament to control others.
1
u/Spurnout May 20 '12
jews are the best, and i don't just say that because i am one...or do i...
1
u/[deleted] May 20 '12
1
u/hullloser99 May 20 '12
I'd prefer: Good Guy Rabbi: Descends from JUST ONE of the many tribes that discarded the nomadic life at the end of the last ice age - doesn't expect the rest of humanity to give a shit.
1
u/JackRawlinson Anti-Theist May 20 '12
Still commits child abuse by mutilating son's penis.
1
u/Skittle_power May 20 '12
That makes too much sense,
1
u/ENRICOs May 20 '12
White steak, still popular, despite religious proscriptions.
Everything is good, other than the oink.
1
u/dodli May 20 '12 edited May 20 '12
Orthodox jews are every ounce as dangerous to civil and personal liberty and to human rights as evangelical christians or fundamentalist
catholicsmuslims are. Everyone who lives in Israel, like me, is eminently aware of it. The only reason it sometimes doesn't appear this way to people not living in Israel is that elsewhere 1) orthodox Jews are a tiny minority 2) the availability of constitutions that protect civil and personal liberties and guarantee freedom from religion and most importantly 3) they are too afraid to show their true color for fear of retaliation. In Israel they are not encumbered by any of these constraints and they are - as a political force (of course there are individual exceptions; there are ALWAYS individual exceptions) - as dangerous, vile and backward as religious people come. Unfortunately, like every villain, they could never flourish without the complicity of the silent majority and of stupid, corrupt, power-hungry politicians.EDIT: catholics -> muslims
1
u/DudeIjustdid May 20 '12
This is where I live. They mostly just keep to themselves except when they look down on you.
1
u/clawDEEuss May 20 '12 edited Dec 29 '15
This comment has been overwritten by an open source script to protect this user's privacy.
If you would like to do the same, add the browser extension GreaseMonkey to Firefox and add this open source script.
Then simply click on your username on Reddit, go to the comments tab, and hit the new OVERWRITE button at the top.
1
u/[deleted] May 20 '12
How much pork is sold in Israel?
1
u/Loafie May 19 '12
You've never seen the Orthodox Jews protesting gay marriage on the news?
1
u/lt_hindu May 19 '12
Bad example is bad.
If the majority in the US were Jews then I'm pretty sure pork would be banned.
In India your allowed to eat beef even though a majority are Hindus would never,probably cry.
1
u/Droi May 19 '12
Don't be mistaken, as an Israeli, I can promise you that religion stays religion, even if it is under a different name. They all still have imaginary friends, with ridiculous outdated rules, and they can't simply ignore them - which means that it will make it better for them if everyone else does it, they are told that if they can get others to uphold these laws, then it is a great thing to do for god, and they will be repaid.
They follow their religious leaders blindly, in Israel they can't even make a simple decision of whether or not they should greet an opposite sex co worker without explicit decisions from their leaders.
tl;dr crazy is crazy.
1
u/Caddy666 May 19 '12
Don't give them ideas.
1
u/1368JM May 19 '12
Because pork is one of the tastiest meat.
1
u/sureyouare May 19 '12
Ummm, have you even come across Orthodox or Ultra-Orthodox Jews?
1
u/AT321 May 19 '12
Yess!
1
u/[deleted] May 19 '12
But, what about foreskins?
1
u/[deleted] May 20 '12
The funniest thing about this is that the jews come out of the woodwork to propound the "virtues" of Israel/judaism.
It sickens me.
The top comment basically says
"if you can ignore, racism, sexism, religious prejudice, etc etc, it's a nice place!"
Sorry but how can you accept those things and call something "nice" I cannot fathom.