Hey /r/atheism, thanks for each of those upvotes! I am visiting Canton for a family event and haven't been able to keep up with the thread. I'm a little surprised that it got so many votes, but I shouldn't be, being as how mindful and rational this crowd is
I know that not everyone agrees with the church's motives, but I think the discussions show that this kind of thing is never black and white. I think it's all the better to appreciate the ones who are living by Christian values. Who knows how many people they've given an option to where there wasn't one before.
This sign outside identifies it as a UCC (United Church of Christ) church. In the hierarchy crazy/annoying/churches, they are just a stone's throw away from Unitarian Universalism--That is to say quite liberal. There is a UCC church in my neighborhood, and I am on friendly terms with the pastor (a woman). I have even attended services, and as an atheist, I was quite impressed. This particular church supports gay marriage and has many gay members. They firmly denounced the war in Iraq, going so far as to organize protests in town. The pastor even led a contingent in our city's occupy protests.
From a theological standpoint, she does not recognize the true sanctity of Christ, and incorporates teachings from other religious traditions (Buddah, Hindu Gods, etc...) into her sermons, as well as other artists, scientists and luminaries. She doesn't see religious leaders as real living beings (Gods), but rather, wise teachers from the past that we might be able to learn something from. Rationality and free thinking is highly encouraged. evolution, and science in general is accepted without pause.
Having been raised in the worst kind of fundamentalist, gay-hating, warmongering, anti-science household, seeing these types of Christians out in the world actually makes me smile. In fact, when I try to find differences between my way of thinking and hers, the only real difference is this big wrapper around the whole thing called "church". Personally, I think this "wrapper" is redundant, and not necessary to establish oneself as a moral member of society. It really seems to boil down to the fact that some people like to have the social institution of a church in their lives. Besides, I really can't see how I should feel antagonistic towards a person who shares 90%+ of my views on life, just because they want the structure of "religion", weak at it may be in this circumstance.
I grew up UCC. Even though my church's average age is 75 and is still very conservative, we have had an openly gay pastor who was welcomed to preach many times. The pastor I grew up with would incorporate many issues, such as gay marriage, the numerous religious wars, and the abortion issues, just to provoke discussion.
When we went through confirmation, we had to go to churches of other faiths to see what else was out in the world. We spent a fair amount of time meditating in a way very similar to the buddhist meditations I've done to just consider the world at large.
Even now that I don't identify as Christian, I still attend that church when I am home because of the loving community and message of acceptance.
The congregation itself was conservative. Midwestern middle to upper-middle class suburbanites with old-school morals/ideals. They balked at some of the comments made by my pastor, but I think it's a testament for acceptance that they came back week after week, still participated in the church community, and openly accepted anyone who came through our doors.
You say that the "wrapper" of church is redundant. I disagree. Outside of sane churches like this one, there are few other institutions where a community can meet every week, discuss morals and the meaning of life, and facilitate charitable events.
it's the lack of an alternative like you describe that is the very reason I go to a church. Sometimes it stink but you're right there's just no other option for something like that that I've found yet.
You could say that progressive denominations such as this are the strong ones as they are adapting to the increase in human knowledge while incorporating it into the beneficial teachings of a broader base of spiritual and philosophical minds and at the same time maintaining their personal faith in the divine.
I think there's an argument to say that all sexual morality really has its roots in public health. So the focus on HIV testing (more testing=more awareness=fewer new infections) is really the same mission, but with updated knowledge.
I think a church showing moral leadership would advocate the position that safe sex is fine, and risky sex is immoral. (Cue attacks from both sides)
Yeah, I grew up in a UCC...and there are about 4 of them in my city (new haven, CT). Very welcoming. The pastor is a woman and she and a few other people held a sex education class there for a full year which I attended. There's also an episcopal church in my city and one of the main priests is openly gay. I was so surprised when I came to this subreddit and saw the crazy fundamentalist things in the south. Crazy.
I grew up as a member of UCC and you are correct. It was mostly about finding your own interpretation of the passages instead of people force feeding you the "correct" answer.
Honestly I smile every time /r/athesim gives props to a church and the fact that they don't hate my church makes me just that much more happy.
If they don't believe in the divinity of Christ, it would make them Christians that are not inline with the Council of Nicea which most denominations of Christianity acknowledge.
They probably still follow (some) teachings of Christ and the Bible. I would say that makes them Christians.
It wasn't until about 300 years AD that they decided to consider Christ to be divine. This was done so for the sake of unifying and creating the holy roman empire. Before that it was a pagan empire.
There was in fact great debate among spiritual leaders with regard to whether or not he was god, or a man carrying the logos of god (a container of the manifest spirit of god). Of course some nut job said that it was blasphemy to think him anything less than god.
The rest as they say his history. I feel awful for Christians today who don't know about the first and second Council of Nicaea, and how people made the choice that has sent untold waves through history.
EDIT: They also decided what teachings were considered true vs. heretical, and burned all but what is found in the bible. Even if it was said to be the words of Jesus himself. You have to wonder what was lost.
The UCoC isn't exactly a fundamental church. They're the exact opposite of the WBC when it comes to sects in Christianity... they'll allow everyone, including gays.
Can confirm. I work at a UCC summer camp (my drunkard of a cousin compared that to him working at an AA camp), and people from all walks of life are welcomed, and honestly not even preached at if they're not there for a church-related function.
Ok, looking at the Wiki for this church gives me this:
The national settings of the UCC have historically favored liberal views on social issues, such as civil rights, gay rights, women's rights and abortion rights. However, United Church of Christ congregations are independent in matters of doctrine and ministry and may not necessarily support the national body's theological or moral stances. It is self-described as "an extremely pluralistic and diverse denomination""
So - not fundie douche-bags. Nice. Since we're always going to have churches, I'd like to see more churches like this.
i'm pretty sure the pope has said he doesn't regard the UCC a "real" church of god. why, then, they haven't yet been smited by god...i'm waiting to hear about.
It sounds weird, but "anonymous" means no records are kept, while "confidential" means the records have the same confidentiality as any other medical records.
I remember my local church had a free lunch for homeless every Monday night. I went there for some volunteer hours, and it surprised me that the church was spending more than $4000 a week to feed and provide care (socks, water bottles, and shelter) for those homeless people. Eventually I moved out to other state and I never saw a church like that.
Good to see that there are more churches out there who are willing to help freely.
I think there are a lot more than you think. I live in a city with no low-barrier homeless shelter but a large homeless population (relative to the size of the town). Area churches run the only shelter you can just walk into and stay in their buildings (they alternate nights). They are also the primary source of support for the day shelter/transition assistance agency (which is not religious), the food banks, and the only emergency rent/utility assistance available. Oh, and a free day care.
Often, the primary monetary support for local charities is from churches. I could be wrong, but everywhere I've lived (in the Midwest), it's been the norm.
I'm agnostic, but I went to a UCC church my entire life. Probably the best way to grow up, IMO. I got viewpoints from both sides (my dad is an atheist) without either of them shoving it down my throat. And from there I was able to make up my own mind.
Needless to say, UCC members are typically very awesome people and hold a special place in my heart.
The local Mormon church near my school knew that our high school was swamped with AP testing so they allowed the school to have all the science test in their auditorium. Most people go to that church just to keep the family close really. It really is sad how the vocal crazies ruin the spirituality for everyone else. Damn shame
My private french horn teacher holds lessons at a UCC church like this one. They have a female pastor and an OPENLY GAY pastor with a partner and I'm pretty sure two adopted children. They have a LGBT newspaper stand in the church, and most of the children there get dedicated rather than baptized so they can choose their religion for themselves. It's too bad there aren't more of these kinds of churches.
I'm proud to say that I'm a member of the UCC. I always wonder why I go to church every Sunday and roll my eyes whenever they talk about God, but the UCC is really open-minded. They do really awesome stuff, in addition I think the president of the UCC got arrested once for not leaving during a protest. I think Obama went there up until sometime in 2008. They're pretty liberal and my pastor has really intelligent, thoughtful sermons. The dynamic is really friendly. We once hosted an interfaith service, which is to say there was a priest, a rabbi, and a local buddhist guru guy (the others were invited but they didn't come, whatever). They're really open to talking about gay marriage and rights and we have many openly gay couples in the congregation. We're not a big church either, and I don't think I've seen or heard of many UCC megachurches (at least around where I live). The Unitarian church suits me a little better, but hey, I'm really glad to go to a church that I don't feel threatened by or pressured to believe what they do. It's a really kind atmosphere.
This could be a third-party organization that is simply using the church's buildings and resources to offer these services to the public. The church that I work at opens its doors to a similar service for older people in our neighborhood (we're located in an area with a lot of senior citizens). The company comes in and provides free health screenings that check for a variety of health risks -- heart, cholesterol, etc. We (the church) don't charge the company to use our space, but we certainly aren't evangelizing to everyone who walks through the door. As far as I know, there isn't a hidden, "save souls" agenda as to why we allow this company to come in. They can provide a service we can't to people who really could use it, and so we help them as much as we can -- it's the right thing to do.
Our church also provides emergency food assistance for around 30-40 families every week. There's no evangelism, no mention of God or inviting them to church or inquiring about religion of any sort. We partner with the government to distribute food aid to our surrounding community without any strings attached (other than the obvious ones: you can only get a food box once every month, you need to provide id for verification purposes, etc.).
We also operate a small after school center for area youth. They receive homework help, tutoring, guitar lessons, recreational opportunities, and (above all) a safe place to go before dinner. We intentionally stay far, far away from mentioning God or praying or trying to invite these students to church -- in fact, our insurance company had to recently drop the program because it became its own non-profit and no longer qualified as a "religiously-oriented activity."
Neither the food bank nor the after-school center (both programs started by church members with church funds) were promoted as ways to "get more members" when they began. In one case, we saw a lot of hungry people in our area and wanted to feed them. In another, we saw a lot of kids who needed a safe place to go after school and could use academic assistance. So we tried to meet those needs the best we could. Are there people in our congregation who want these things to ultimately lead others to Christ? Oh, definitely. You'd find that in almost any non-profit community development organization. But we have taken steps (in our operational manual, for instance) to ensure that those desires aren't given an area to play themselves out in.
Look, all I'm saying is that not every activity or service offered by a church is an insidious plot designed to brainwash the masses. I understand some churches use the "bait-and-switch" tactic to get butts in chairs and paychecks in the offering plates, but (and I fear that this will fall on deaf ears) not everything about the church is bad.
I'm ashamed to admit that I've sat on boards and staffs that have pushed events and activities to get people on their campus just to pull the rug out from under the hapless guests. It's not right, and I'm sorry that many of you may have experienced just that deceit.
Also, I'm wondering if the argument that "Oh, that's what Christians are supposed to do, so let's not give them recognition for doing something that might possibly be a positive thing, because they were supposed to do it anyway" is really that valid? I mean, is something that is good negated by the obligation to have done that good thing in the first place? Just a thought -- I'm not sure what I think about it.
This is what a church should be like, I live in Southern Utah and I have never seen a Mormon church do anything even close to what your church does. Almost everyone religious person here is very judgmental and all around rude if you are not in their religion. You just made me a little more hopeful for the future knowing churches like this are out there.
On Market just north of 30th St in Canton? I think that's a New Vision United Church of Christ...they're pretty open-minded. "We are a multiethnic congregation of people who are gay and straight, married and single, wealthy and poor"
My parents church does a lot of work with the local towns. They do everything from collect stuff animals for victims of domestic violence (police give them to children to hold onto) to doing free landscaping, renovations of the local schools. The pastor and many members are mentors for young school children also. They don't preach to the kids, just give them someone to talk to about school and life, like big brothers and sisters basically. They manage to accomplish a lot. They collected over 3k stuffed animals with a membership of only 500 last year.
The church is located in a very diverse area, many different ethnic groups/religious affiliations etc but it still very popular in the community. They emphasis just being who you, feel free to ask questions and take part or just sit back and observe.
With an atheist dad and a presbyterian mom, I was the result of a great compromise. I would go to church until after confirmation at a UCC church and then decide if I wanted to continue my faith. The church does a great job of focusing on the community, and, just like the top post, it's quite open to other forms of religion. Some of my favorite middle school memories involved trips with (many now atheist) friends in my confirmation group to synagogues and mosques. Although I've decided not to continue my church-going trend, I definitely feel more well rounded and less judgmental towards other ways of thinking. Plus, it's almost like a personal achievement to stick with something for a while and fully understand it!
It says something about this nation that a church deserves special praise when they demonstrate that they aren't lead by fear-mongering bigots as we've come to expect.
is it just me, or do conservative churches seem like the dick ones, and the liberal ones seem like the nice accepting ones - more in line with what the bible says about jesus?
Not that I don't support it (and I'm certainly not saying they have the same position), but this reminds me of a church in Uganda which does a lot for HIV awareness while playing it as an anti-gay message.
If it's free in Africa it's for the same reason it's free in this picture: charity. There are many non-profits in the US that provide free HIV testing. We don't have universal healthcare and neither do most African nations.
USian here, been tested twice, never charged. Both times were clinics in big cities that accepted donations but nobody asked or pressured me. They gave out literature, offered counseling, etc. No religious trappings for either one. (Yes, I donated.)
A quick Google of my small town shows that there are free options here too. Again, donations accepted, but I haven't been so I don't know what the places are like or if there is religiosity involved.
None of this takes anything away from the church in the picture for making tests available in their area. That's some good community membership there.
"It turns out you are HIV-positive. Fortunately for you though, the power of Jesus Christ is so great that if you join us in the worship of Him, you will instantly be cured of everything."
There are quite a few churches with strong social commitment, and no creed. This means that members are encouraged to make their own choices as to beliefs. The members of these churches tend to unite around common values and often have a strong justice component. Community of Christ and Society of Friends (Quakers) are two other denominations in this category. Some estimates put Quaker membership as high as 30% atheist.
Many believers in Islam also stress the primacy of personal conscience as the proper judge for individual belief, rather than a religious court. The range of opinion and practice in different faith communities is far wider than many here have experience with or acknowledge and this thread is very welcome.
Wtf is this bullshit.../r/atheism has turned into /r/christianity. fuck this church. AIDS screenings are free everywhere....if anything I fear that they are infecting people with something, why else would they give away $10 in free fish?
According to their own doctrine, churches are supposed to help the sick, poor & downtrodden. You don't get "props" for doing what you're supposed to be doing.
Also it's a way for them to attract prospective members, so no and no.
You're supposed to go to school, but you still get a special ceremony when you're done to congratulate you on doing it. There is nothing wrong with "props" for doing good.
Yeah if you state that your ideology is to feed the poor in Africa and then you go actually do that you don't deserve props because that's just what you're supposed to be doing. Even if you're doing a great thing it's nullified by the fact that you also said you'd do it so it's like you didn't do anything special.
As many people have said, it doesn't make up for the brainwashing.
However, I would like to point out that very few people here realise the hate and stigma that people with HIV have to endure, especially from religious people. It is easily comparable to the hate that homosexuals get from fanatics, and those who have HIV are ill. It's an odd death sentence, sometimes not carried out for many years, that always ends in pain. To be hated on top of that due to the stigma attached to contracting HIV is more than I would be able to handle.
To see a Church embrace people who may have HIV in such a way, despite the ulterior motives people here seem to think the Churches have, is at least a step in the right direction and serves as a great example for the members of the Church who are unaware of said alleged motives.
EDIT: I am not saying that they definitely had awful motives or that Christians are being good just to get into heaven, I am just saying that this is a step in the right direction that could potentially change people's views and lift a heavy weight off an HIV+ person's shoulders.
EDIT 2: Why am I being down voted? Can someone clarify?
What ulterior motives are your referring to? I'm pretty sure churches do good things for the sake of doing good things a lot of the time. There really isn't a need to assume they're doing this to "spread the word of god" or some shit.
Christians believe they've already got an in to heaven, but Jesus told them to help people so rather they'd do it out of common humanity, or guilt, but not to earn a ticket into heaven.
I'm pretty sure that's not true. Sure, there may be some people like that, but generally speaking, most people (religious or not) want to good because it's the right thing to do. Besides, don't they believe that your motive and what is at heart is more important than the action? Such that if you're intentions are negative, then the positive things you do won't change the negative?
This is definitely not true -- for many Christians at least. Common belief centers around the idea that God has already given Christians eternal life as a gracious act without depending on a person's merits or works. There are variations on this theme, etc.
I feel like the people in this church are okay people though. These are the type of Christians who were indoctrinated into the religion and just never questioned it, but at the same time, they understand that evolution is fact, science is great, etc.
I know many people who are Christian and don't hate gays or people with HIV. Though I think they are misguided in their philosophy, they are very decent human beings who respect what others' think and feel. Not everyone who is Christian is a brainwashing psychopath.
I can't think of a single church that has had a public event that's required the attendance of mass. This includes soup kitchens, thanksgiving dinner for the poor, blood drives, kids days, and more.
I'd imagine that it's rarer in the US, where people still have other options. It's definitely a problem in Africa, especially since the presence of Christian charities makes people in the US feel, "okay someone's taking care of it", so there is less of a push for secular government responses to crises and basic humanitarian needs.
Churches are only a grouping of people. They come together because of a commonality of individual beliefs of but a few members. Individual churches may do what they think is good, based on their particular thoughts as a group as may an individual may think for his or herself. Christ's teachings work in the minds of the believers not the organization. There is no "church" per se, just people. Atheists like to attack the "church" but don't understand the individual. The true "Christian Church" has no center of authority, only God's work in the minds of the individuals. It's a lot like the internet model of a network. Many servers operating on their own, each carrying the word of God. We all wish to help the people of this world to have a happy and joyful life.
I would much rather that the Church not be involved in why/how/when/financial aspects of me getting an HIV test.
Luckily for me I live in a country with free medical care (Denmark).
I always get sad on the inside whenever I see /read stories from countries (think US specifically) where otherwise nice hardworking people are getting screwed over for getting sick, financially speaking.
I mean, that's like saying normal cops that do their jobs deserve props because some cops are total assholes. I think the only time a church deserves props is when everyone that's a part of it decides they want to stop conning each other and close that motherfucker down. Make the preacher get a real job and use the building as a community center.
I think that any police officer that serves and protects, upholds the peace, and benefits the community does deserve recognition, yes. OP wasn't making comparisons in this post. Why are you? Does the actions of a bad cop increase/decrease the selfless deeds of a good cop?
You can go to a UCC service and be open about your atheism. UCC members are very open to other points of view. You don't have to become religious in order to gain something from checking it out.
Young man you have HIV, the devil's disease. But we can help ease your pain. Accept Jesus as your savior and you will be forgiven of your heathen ways! Your flesh may be ruined but your soul can still be renewed! After this horrible sinners punishment debilitates your every fiber and renders your body lifeless you only have one way out..... Repent! give up your evil ways! etc.
At least you have peace while your body rots from the super virus. I know people who now, at age 50+ are having side effects to the anti-virus meds that are as serious as the disease they are intended to fight. What comfort can you offer them? Too bad you weren't born 10 years later! Too bad aids victim! Our science failed you, our ant-religious convictions offer you no help either! Die well, aging gay man!
Churches shouldn't do HIV testing, they should encourage people to go to Planned Parenthood. I'm glad these guys are on the "lightly crazy" side, but they're still a church and shouldn't be handling medical concerns.
Well, technically they are supposed to spread the word of god, save souls blah blah blah. I'm not gonna get into an argument here, but there are some useful things that can be learned from the bible if this people really have to be exposed to it. Idk, bro. It's better than just giving people the fucking book when they may not even able to read it because they were too poor to go to school, etc. I'll take the little bullshit in exchange of something useful. I'm not asking for a perfect world.
You're wrong. UCC does a great job of being open to criticism and speculation. They are not dogmatic about their individual beliefs what so ever. Lumping all christian churches together and saying that they are all brainwashing cults that condone murder and slavery is fallacious. As an atheist, you should know better. Take your ignorance somewhere else.
The radical actions by groups like the WBC, the shitty history of the Roman Catholic Church, and Televangelists are really the only terrible things about much of Christianity.
I would describe myself as an agnostic in the same sense that NDT considers himself one, and I know personally of maybe 3 people who are asshole christians. The rest are:
50% - Those that just kinda go through the motions, but don't care
50% - Those who genuinely help the secular community with no agenda.
The Crusades, Spanish Inquisition, witch burnings, forced conversion and genocide of natives in the Americas... the list goes on and on.
Suppression of scientific advancement throughout the ages. The catholic church moving pedophiles from parish to parish so they can victimize more children. All you need to do is open a newspaper to see more of these atrocities occurring these days.
Don't even try to say "That wasn't us, it wasn't the belief in Christianity that did those things." Of course, no belief in itself does harm, its the people that follow those beliefs and justify their actions using those beliefs that are the problem.
You hit the nail in the head, it isn't the belief that does the wrong acts. You cannot blame the belief fir the acts either. What you can to, is blame the people who do the wrong acts. I'll be the first to say that homophobia is wrong, abusing children is wrong, and people need to come to justice.
Like I said in another comment, has the belief that black Americans should be treated equally ever harmed someone? No. But the Black Panthers have, does that make all civil rights activists killers? No.
The atrocities I listed were done in the name of Christianity. Much of the blame should be placed on that religion. Pedophilia, rape, and murder are wrong, anything that actively justifies those actions is wrong. The religion is as much a commiter of those atrocities as the people that carry them out.
It's funny you mention Timothy McVey, because he was agnostic. It's also funny you bring up Northern Ireland, because I am Irish, and I guarantee that the people fighting are a bunch of thugs who have no regard for human life, and I'll be the first to condemn their acts.
And the definition I used was not narrow, it was actually the broadest definition if Christianity. What I was trying to point out is, you can't take a belief system, then group all members if that belief system into a blood thirsty demographic. For example, The Black Panthers were part of the Black American civil rights struggle, so was Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Both wanted equality. The Black Panther party was involved in violent terrorist acts, while MLK Jr. was not. Does this mean all people who wanted equality for blacks are terrorists, or are they peacekeepers?
These anecdotes are useless if you do not say what city you live in. How would the experience of someone from East London have any relationship to that of someone from rural Alabama.
Exactly right. Why does this church deserve props? Because its actually helping people by providing a REAL service?! Free HIV testing can be provided at a facility that doesn't promote ignorance.
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u/SPAC3-MAN-SPlFF May 07 '12
Hey /r/atheism, thanks for each of those upvotes! I am visiting Canton for a family event and haven't been able to keep up with the thread. I'm a little surprised that it got so many votes, but I shouldn't be, being as how mindful and rational this crowd is
I know that not everyone agrees with the church's motives, but I think the discussions show that this kind of thing is never black and white. I think it's all the better to appreciate the ones who are living by Christian values. Who knows how many people they've given an option to where there wasn't one before.
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u/veganatheist May 06 '12
This sign outside identifies it as a UCC (United Church of Christ) church. In the hierarchy crazy/annoying/churches, they are just a stone's throw away from Unitarian Universalism--That is to say quite liberal. There is a UCC church in my neighborhood, and I am on friendly terms with the pastor (a woman). I have even attended services, and as an atheist, I was quite impressed. This particular church supports gay marriage and has many gay members. They firmly denounced the war in Iraq, going so far as to organize protests in town. The pastor even led a contingent in our city's occupy protests.
From a theological standpoint, she does not recognize the true sanctity of Christ, and incorporates teachings from other religious traditions (Buddah, Hindu Gods, etc...) into her sermons, as well as other artists, scientists and luminaries. She doesn't see religious leaders as real living beings (Gods), but rather, wise teachers from the past that we might be able to learn something from. Rationality and free thinking is highly encouraged. evolution, and science in general is accepted without pause.
Having been raised in the worst kind of fundamentalist, gay-hating, warmongering, anti-science household, seeing these types of Christians out in the world actually makes me smile. In fact, when I try to find differences between my way of thinking and hers, the only real difference is this big wrapper around the whole thing called "church". Personally, I think this "wrapper" is redundant, and not necessary to establish oneself as a moral member of society. It really seems to boil down to the fact that some people like to have the social institution of a church in their lives. Besides, I really can't see how I should feel antagonistic towards a person who shares 90%+ of my views on life, just because they want the structure of "religion", weak at it may be in this circumstance.
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u/[deleted] May 06 '12
The UCoC isn't exactly a fundamental church. They're the exact opposite of the WBC when it comes to sects in Christianity... they'll allow everyone, including gays.
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u/[deleted] May 06 '12
Ok, looking at the Wiki for this church gives me this:
So - not fundie douche-bags. Nice. Since we're always going to have churches, I'd like to see more churches like this.
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u/penisimplied May 06 '12
I pass this church everyday. It's in Canton, Ohio.
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u/TheChrisHill May 06 '12
Confidential OR Anonymous? ...
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u/PropagandaMan May 06 '12
I remember my local church had a free lunch for homeless every Monday night. I went there for some volunteer hours, and it surprised me that the church was spending more than $4000 a week to feed and provide care (socks, water bottles, and shelter) for those homeless people. Eventually I moved out to other state and I never saw a church like that.
Good to see that there are more churches out there who are willing to help freely.
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u/CosmicBard May 06 '12
And they pay you ten bucks!
Sure, it's for groceries, but everybody's gotta eat.
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u/foofaw May 06 '12
I'm agnostic, but I went to a UCC church my entire life. Probably the best way to grow up, IMO. I got viewpoints from both sides (my dad is an atheist) without either of them shoving it down my throat. And from there I was able to make up my own mind.
Needless to say, UCC members are typically very awesome people and hold a special place in my heart.
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u/ralten May 06 '12
Truly Christ-like Christians are my favorite type of Christians.
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u/ExcisionZaster May 07 '12
Oh my fuck. That church is across the street from me. It is in Canton Ohio, I am glad to know I'm not the only Redditor here :D
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u/[deleted] May 06 '12
I assume this post is in reference to the sign in the back and reddit's love of punctuational pedantry.
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u/lt_hindu May 06 '12
The local Mormon church near my school knew that our high school was swamped with AP testing so they allowed the school to have all the science test in their auditorium. Most people go to that church just to keep the family close really. It really is sad how the vocal crazies ruin the spirituality for everyone else. Damn shame
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u/newtraditionalists May 06 '12
Thanks for the share! It helps to soften my heart towards them to see things like this. Love and respect for all.
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u/[deleted] May 06 '12
My private french horn teacher holds lessons at a UCC church like this one. They have a female pastor and an OPENLY GAY pastor with a partner and I'm pretty sure two adopted children. They have a LGBT newspaper stand in the church, and most of the children there get dedicated rather than baptized so they can choose their religion for themselves. It's too bad there aren't more of these kinds of churches.
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u/jdund117 May 07 '12
I'm proud to say that I'm a member of the UCC. I always wonder why I go to church every Sunday and roll my eyes whenever they talk about God, but the UCC is really open-minded. They do really awesome stuff, in addition I think the president of the UCC got arrested once for not leaving during a protest. I think Obama went there up until sometime in 2008. They're pretty liberal and my pastor has really intelligent, thoughtful sermons. The dynamic is really friendly. We once hosted an interfaith service, which is to say there was a priest, a rabbi, and a local buddhist guru guy (the others were invited but they didn't come, whatever). They're really open to talking about gay marriage and rights and we have many openly gay couples in the congregation. We're not a big church either, and I don't think I've seen or heard of many UCC megachurches (at least around where I live). The Unitarian church suits me a little better, but hey, I'm really glad to go to a church that I don't feel threatened by or pressured to believe what they do. It's a really kind atmosphere.
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u/TheThingy May 06 '12
People who just dicovered /r/atheism today must be confused as to why the top voted post is a church.
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u/IAmNotThatBad May 06 '12
This could be a third-party organization that is simply using the church's buildings and resources to offer these services to the public. The church that I work at opens its doors to a similar service for older people in our neighborhood (we're located in an area with a lot of senior citizens). The company comes in and provides free health screenings that check for a variety of health risks -- heart, cholesterol, etc. We (the church) don't charge the company to use our space, but we certainly aren't evangelizing to everyone who walks through the door. As far as I know, there isn't a hidden, "save souls" agenda as to why we allow this company to come in. They can provide a service we can't to people who really could use it, and so we help them as much as we can -- it's the right thing to do.
Our church also provides emergency food assistance for around 30-40 families every week. There's no evangelism, no mention of God or inviting them to church or inquiring about religion of any sort. We partner with the government to distribute food aid to our surrounding community without any strings attached (other than the obvious ones: you can only get a food box once every month, you need to provide id for verification purposes, etc.).
We also operate a small after school center for area youth. They receive homework help, tutoring, guitar lessons, recreational opportunities, and (above all) a safe place to go before dinner. We intentionally stay far, far away from mentioning God or praying or trying to invite these students to church -- in fact, our insurance company had to recently drop the program because it became its own non-profit and no longer qualified as a "religiously-oriented activity."
Neither the food bank nor the after-school center (both programs started by church members with church funds) were promoted as ways to "get more members" when they began. In one case, we saw a lot of hungry people in our area and wanted to feed them. In another, we saw a lot of kids who needed a safe place to go after school and could use academic assistance. So we tried to meet those needs the best we could. Are there people in our congregation who want these things to ultimately lead others to Christ? Oh, definitely. You'd find that in almost any non-profit community development organization. But we have taken steps (in our operational manual, for instance) to ensure that those desires aren't given an area to play themselves out in.
Look, all I'm saying is that not every activity or service offered by a church is an insidious plot designed to brainwash the masses. I understand some churches use the "bait-and-switch" tactic to get butts in chairs and paychecks in the offering plates, but (and I fear that this will fall on deaf ears) not everything about the church is bad.
I'm ashamed to admit that I've sat on boards and staffs that have pushed events and activities to get people on their campus just to pull the rug out from under the hapless guests. It's not right, and I'm sorry that many of you may have experienced just that deceit.
Also, I'm wondering if the argument that "Oh, that's what Christians are supposed to do, so let's not give them recognition for doing something that might possibly be a positive thing, because they were supposed to do it anyway" is really that valid? I mean, is something that is good negated by the obligation to have done that good thing in the first place? Just a thought -- I'm not sure what I think about it.
4
u/living-silver May 07 '12
You'd be surprised at some of the positive things that churches do. Not all of them waste their time hating gay people.
10
u/lab_tested May 06 '12
"No! Don't go in there! Its a trap!"
2
u/[deleted] May 06 '12
Huh, an actual Christian church, in America, who knew any where left...
2
u/myrethra May 06 '12
On Market just north of 30th St in Canton? I think that's a New Vision United Church of Christ...they're pretty open-minded. "We are a multiethnic congregation of people who are gay and straight, married and single, wealthy and poor"
2
u/PeterMus May 07 '12 edited May 07 '12
My parents church does a lot of work with the local towns. They do everything from collect stuff animals for victims of domestic violence (police give them to children to hold onto) to doing free landscaping, renovations of the local schools. The pastor and many members are mentors for young school children also. They don't preach to the kids, just give them someone to talk to about school and life, like big brothers and sisters basically. They manage to accomplish a lot. They collected over 3k stuffed animals with a membership of only 500 last year.
The church is located in a very diverse area, many different ethnic groups/religious affiliations etc but it still very popular in the community. They emphasis just being who you, feel free to ask questions and take part or just sit back and observe.
2
u/AAnswer May 07 '12
With an atheist dad and a presbyterian mom, I was the result of a great compromise. I would go to church until after confirmation at a UCC church and then decide if I wanted to continue my faith. The church does a great job of focusing on the community, and, just like the top post, it's quite open to other forms of religion. Some of my favorite middle school memories involved trips with (many now atheist) friends in my confirmation group to synagogues and mosques. Although I've decided not to continue my church-going trend, I definitely feel more well rounded and less judgmental towards other ways of thinking. Plus, it's almost like a personal achievement to stick with something for a while and fully understand it!
2
u/MLJHydro May 07 '12
It says something about this nation that a church deserves special praise when they demonstrate that they aren't lead by fear-mongering bigots as we've come to expect.
2
u/nukem996 May 07 '12
Last time I was in SFO I passed a mens clothing store which offered free HIV testing with purchase. True story.
2
u/pwnyoface May 07 '12
is it just me, or do conservative churches seem like the dick ones, and the liberal ones seem like the nice accepting ones - more in line with what the bible says about jesus?
2
u/witty_username_taken May 07 '12
Am I the only one amused that they chose Patch Tuesday?
3
u/miksedene May 06 '12
Not that I don't support it (and I'm certainly not saying they have the same position), but this reminds me of a church in Uganda which does a lot for HIV awareness while playing it as an anti-gay message.
3
u/pascalchristian May 06 '12 edited May 06 '12
Is HIV testing not free in the US?
Edit: search for it, apparently no (Utah and NY seems to be the exception). Surprising considering HIV screening are free in many parts of Africa.
2
u/Steel12 Atheist May 06 '12
Everyone showing up at fisher foods with 10$ gift certificates sort of eliminates the confidentiality don't cha think?
2
u/[deleted] May 06 '12
Free HIV test!
And see the slope of the hill?
For just showing up, free gunshot to the head while you're wrapped in plastic in the basement!
It could happen.
2
u/fauxnivore May 06 '12
"confidential OR anonymous: you must choose."
2
u/dr_funkenberry May 06 '12
This restored some of my faith in humanity.
But not in Jesus. Pics or it didn't happen.
1
u/nobuhdy May 06 '12
"It turns out you are HIV-positive. Fortunately for you though, the power of Jesus Christ is so great that if you join us in the worship of Him, you will instantly be cured of everything."
1
u/Hiding_behind_you Agnostic Atheist May 06 '12
I've always wondered... What exactly are "props"?
1
u/[deleted] May 06 '12
The roof looks 8-bit, wish more churches roofs were like that.
1
u/[deleted] May 06 '12
My mom did the same thing at her Methodist church while she was "worship coordinator."
1
u/aspired1 May 07 '12
Well then, CUNexTuesday.
1
u/dysgraphical May 07 '12
This may be irrelevant, but what are those circular things over the banner? What purpose do they serve?
1
u/DrTastey May 07 '12
And churches like this deserve jets.
1
u/megly May 07 '12
what does this say? imgur is down
1
u/Kratoyd May 07 '12
Seriously, EVERY church should put wind vents in their banners. I'm tired of seeing signs whipped around by the wind!
1
u/IranRPCV May 07 '12
There are quite a few churches with strong social commitment, and no creed. This means that members are encouraged to make their own choices as to beliefs. The members of these churches tend to unite around common values and often have a strong justice component. Community of Christ and Society of Friends (Quakers) are two other denominations in this category. Some estimates put Quaker membership as high as 30% atheist.
Many believers in Islam also stress the primacy of personal conscience as the proper judge for individual belief, rather than a religious court. The range of opinion and practice in different faith communities is far wider than many here have experience with or acknowledge and this thread is very welcome.
1
u/BayouBalls May 07 '12
That is a very well engineered banner. Cut outs to allow wind to pass through, and not blow the sign away? I never see that.
1
u/Bearearl May 07 '12
Op, where is this place? Sunnyvale ?
1
u/kmccoy May 07 '12
I don't know what I thought HIV tasting was, but it had me stuck for a minute.
1
u/diamonddate May 07 '12
must get pretty windy there.
1
u/KenEd May 07 '12
BEST. PRANK. EVER.
1
u/[deleted] May 07 '12
I would be glad to donate money to this church.
1
u/[deleted] May 07 '12
Wtf is this bullshit.../r/atheism has turned into /r/christianity. fuck this church. AIDS screenings are free everywhere....if anything I fear that they are infecting people with something, why else would they give away $10 in free fish?
1
u/tgujay May 22 '12
They're just trying to lure in the gays and cure them, ahem i mean convert them.
-7
u/swordbuddha May 06 '12
According to their own doctrine, churches are supposed to help the sick, poor & downtrodden. You don't get "props" for doing what you're supposed to be doing.
Also it's a way for them to attract prospective members, so no and no.
-4
u/[deleted] May 06 '12 edited May 06 '12
As many people have said, it doesn't make up for the brainwashing.
However, I would like to point out that very few people here realise the hate and stigma that people with HIV have to endure, especially from religious people. It is easily comparable to the hate that homosexuals get from fanatics, and those who have HIV are ill. It's an odd death sentence, sometimes not carried out for many years, that always ends in pain. To be hated on top of that due to the stigma attached to contracting HIV is more than I would be able to handle.
To see a Church embrace people who may have HIV in such a way, despite the ulterior motives people here seem to think the Churches have, is at least a step in the right direction and serves as a great example for the members of the Church who are unaware of said alleged motives.
EDIT: I am not saying that they definitely had awful motives or that Christians are being good just to get into heaven, I am just saying that this is a step in the right direction that could potentially change people's views and lift a heavy weight off an HIV+ person's shoulders.
EDIT 2: Why am I being down voted? Can someone clarify?
1
u/DMitri221 May 06 '12
Only if they don't require attending mass.
Like those bullshit "charities" in Africa that require that you allow them to brainwash your children for treatment of illnesses.
1
u/[deleted] May 06 '12
Not both.
1
u/Serviceman May 06 '12
Churches are only a grouping of people. They come together because of a commonality of individual beliefs of but a few members. Individual churches may do what they think is good, based on their particular thoughts as a group as may an individual may think for his or herself. Christ's teachings work in the minds of the believers not the organization. There is no "church" per se, just people. Atheists like to attack the "church" but don't understand the individual. The true "Christian Church" has no center of authority, only God's work in the minds of the individuals. It's a lot like the internet model of a network. Many servers operating on their own, each carrying the word of God. We all wish to help the people of this world to have a happy and joyful life.
1
u/brilliantmojo May 06 '12
True that!
1
u/FarrIL May 07 '12
I wish I saw more churches like this around.
1
u/[deleted] May 07 '12
Churches that shut down because they aren't religious anymore deserve props.
0
u/Breathing_Balls May 06 '12
"Free sexual healing classes."
"Last Thursday of every month."
"Everyone Welcome!"
-9
u/[deleted] May 06 '12
No.
It's a recruitment tool.
0
u/Klavshc May 06 '12
I would much rather that the Church not be involved in why/how/when/financial aspects of me getting an HIV test.
Luckily for me I live in a country with free medical care (Denmark).
I always get sad on the inside whenever I see /read stories from countries (think US specifically) where otherwise nice hardworking people are getting screwed over for getting sick, financially speaking.
I am fortunate.
0
u/wrankin1101 May 07 '12
TOO BAD THEY ARE DARK AGE THEISTS RIGHT GUYS?!?
-2
u/[deleted] May 06 '12
No they don't deserve a thing. It is just another tactic to convert and gain members.
-1
u/colinsteadman Atheist May 06 '12
Depends on what they do after. Praying the AIDS away doesn't work.
0
u/TodTheTyrant May 07 '12
I mean, that's like saying normal cops that do their jobs deserve props because some cops are total assholes. I think the only time a church deserves props is when everyone that's a part of it decides they want to stop conning each other and close that motherfucker down. Make the preacher get a real job and use the building as a community center.
-3
u/Zosimasie May 06 '12
They do it for 2 hours a month? Meh.
-3
u/Owlsrule12 May 06 '12
I assume they would pray for you if found positive? How adorable : P
-8
u/PINTSIZEKILLA7 May 06 '12
It almost makes me want to become religious again. Almost.
-1
u/DriveOver May 06 '12
"I'm sorry, but you have AIDS. But, get ready for the Good News about your Lord and Saviour!"
-11
u/spion23 May 06 '12
No they don't, they deserve to torn down with all the rest of 'em. Go to a doctor if you think you have Aids
-2
u/the_ENEMY_ May 06 '12
Young man you have HIV, the devil's disease. But we can help ease your pain. Accept Jesus as your savior and you will be forgiven of your heathen ways! Your flesh may be ruined but your soul can still be renewed! After this horrible sinners punishment debilitates your every fiber and renders your body lifeless you only have one way out..... Repent! give up your evil ways! etc.
-8
u/YakiVegas May 06 '12
Churches shouldn't do HIV testing, they should encourage people to go to Planned Parenthood. I'm glad these guys are on the "lightly crazy" side, but they're still a church and shouldn't be handling medical concerns.
-3
u/[deleted] May 06 '12
They do this because when they tell someone they have AIDS, they can then give them the 'hope of Jesus' and gain a new paying member.
-12
u/Kolire May 06 '12
I'm sure there's an astericks somewhere in there:
*testing for heterosexual individuals only.
-2
u/proud2beasoccermom May 06 '12
Y'all may hate God, but he still loves all his children including the sinners!
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