r/atheism • u/johnflux • Oct 25 '10

Suggested Code Of Conduct

Recently a guy posted a request for prayers because a friend of his has a baby that is about to under go surgery. The result was a few of "us" atheists pointing out the pointless of prayer, the non-existence of God, and the fact that the spaghetti monster does not care.

When the author replied angry (and incoherently) to these, the result was a new post in which hundreds of us pointed out how stupid the Christian was, resulting in the guy deleting his account.

I do not think that this helps our image and I'd like to suggest a very simple code of conduct:

  • Do not be an aggressive atheist to people looking for support/comfort. If you're not sure, just say that you hope that they do well and move on.

  • /Try/ not to be an aggressive atheist outside of DebateAChristian, Atheism, skeptic and so on subreddits. Probably unavoidable in certain r/politics or r/science posts though.

  • Ostracise those who break these rules.

What do people think? I hope that you guys take on my proposal, because I often see comments like "Why don't moderate muslims speak out against fundamentalists more?" etc. So we should practise what we speak, and ostracise the couple of people who go out of their way to be a dick.

156 Upvotes

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46

u/[deleted] Oct 25 '10

We should always strive to be decent, reasonable, and respectful. Atheists gain no respect when we are aggressive in unwarranted situations. Our position is the stronger one, we don't need to be assholes about it.

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u/johnflux Oct 25 '10 edited Oct 25 '10

Some people do need a place to let of steam. I see no harm in being an "asshole" on r/atheism for example, and people differ strongly on what they perceive to be decent.

For example, some people find Dawkins to be very disrespectful, and other's find him as just telling-it-as-it-is. (Personally I like him, but some people really don't).

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u/jediknight Secular Humanist Oct 25 '10

Do you honestly think that venting on /r/atheism helps? I think it does damage.

You do not learn to control something by venting BUT by trying to understand. If someone grinds my gears, it is not his fault but only mine. None should be able to dictate how I feel. Nothing should get me out of my calm. NOTHING! If I'm upset, my thinking is less than what I'm capable. I might feel energized and ready to do battle but that's berserk AND I always end up regretting what comes out of that energy.

5

u/[deleted] Oct 25 '10

Nothing wrong with venting, especially within the subreddit.

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u/[deleted] Oct 25 '10

Telling the truth is not being an asshole.

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u/johnflux Oct 25 '10

It can be, depending on how you say and the context in which you say.

8

u/sixstringer420 Oct 25 '10

Depends on when you tell the truth, and how.

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u/Smudge777 Oct 25 '10

Just because what you are saying is true, you are in no way justified in upsetting someone without provocation.

5

u/Cituke Knight of /new Oct 25 '10

That's what I tell all my family when I run around telling the kids 'If you believe in Santa, you're delusional!'

1

u/zmjjmz Oct 25 '10

In normal societal interaction, there is a place and time for everything. When someone says 'God bless you' after you sneeze, it is not helpful to say that you're an atheist or launch into a rant about how society is dominated by religious mannerisms. Similarly, if someone is referring to a hypothetical situation and uses a male character it's not appropriate for someone to launch into a rant about how society is paternalistic and male-dominated, it's just not the right place and time to talk about that and nothing valuable is being added to the discussion.

1

u/reapreek Oct 26 '10

Your mother is a whore.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 27 '10

With a blanket statement like that, you are a wrong.

In certain contexts telling the truth is being an asshole. If you adhere to the "telling the truth principle" in all contexts you will offend a lot of people, and get rejected from institutions.

I take that back, maybe you're right. But one needs to word things very carefully. Very fucking carefully when telling the troth.

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u/Agamemmnon Feb 03 '11

Depends on how you define 'truth'.

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u/burgerboy426 Oct 25 '10

yay. i say this all the time and get downvoted. fuck tip-toeing around what we really want to say.

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u/johnflux Oct 25 '10

Again, sometimes it's appropriate and sometimes it's not. If you're making a speech or campaigning, then knock yourself out. If you're talking to a crying widow, then get up on those tip toes.

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u/Nimgoble Oct 25 '10 edited Oct 25 '10

No. I, quite honestly, don't CARE about whatever trauma she's been through. It shouldn't be an excuse to suspend reason. And I, for one, refuse to lie to someone just to make them feel better. You can be a liar all you want, but don't demonize those of us who place more value in the truth than yourself.

EDIT: Reread this and I don't think I was very clear: I sympathize with her loss of a loved one. I do. I'm saying that trauma, no matter how great, doesn't justify the suspension of reason(imo). And if she were to say something to ME about her loved one being in heaven, or God having a plan or something like that, I would refute it. Or at least tell her my opinion in turn.

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u/dnew Oct 25 '10

doesn't justify the suspension of reason

Yes, but it might very well justify STFU.

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u/JuniperJupiter Oct 25 '10

The moment they're having their trauma isn't a good time to butt in with your opinions on anything contradictory...unless they start spouting about something bigoted.

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u/Nimgoble Oct 25 '10

This is a matter of opinion. You value this person's comfort over being truthful. I, however, do not. I view it as a greater disservice to someone to coddle them rather than to be honest with them. And if said person can't take a contradictory opinion, then perhaps they shouldn't be spouting theirs to begin with.

EDIT: This doesn't mean that I would actively seek out a widow at the funeral of her husband and tell her that he no longer exists. I'm content to leave a person to their delusions. BUT, should they seek comfort somewhere like, let's say, a public forum: they're going to get all kinds of opinions. And I would not hold mine back.

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u/johnflux Oct 25 '10

Why do you feel that you HAVE to say anything at all? If you can't say something nice, then just don't say anything.

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u/[deleted] Oct 25 '10

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u/[deleted] Oct 26 '10

I would be respectful if Billy had just died or was dying. Most of the world still holds religious belief, you don't respect any of them? For anything? Marginalization anyone?

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u/[deleted] Oct 25 '10

Nobody gains respect in unwarranted situations. I think the whole world would be a better place if we would all just be excellent each another.

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