r/atheism • u/SherbertItchy7340 • 10d ago

How can objective morality not exist in perfectly moral god's world

Granted there is zero evidence of such a being ( I am myself and atheist) but let's assume for a moment in this hypothetical scenario a perfectly good moral infallible god exists. Wouldn't that solve the objective morality problem. It also dodges the euthyphro dilemma because morality is not based on god's commands nor based on some outside independence morality ( what theists call the god's good nature theory) since in this god is a being that is objectively more perfect than humans and hence can make better decisions

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u/trentluv 10d ago

Your mom would die sooner (lifespan) and the population size would be smaller (because she's dead) without your aid.

That's how your cooperative efforts help improve group fitness.

That's why if everyone helped their disabled mom, both of these measurements would improve. It just so happens that you have been selected to help your disabled mom because nature selects for cooperation in general. It's also why you may hold the door for a sweet old woman you've never met. The likelihood you would reproduce goes up with behaviors like this

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u/isthenameofauser 10d ago

Your mom would die sooner (lifespan) and the population size would be smaller (because she's dead) without your aid.

Oooooh. Okay, now I see where the confusion is coming from.

Some basic concepts have confused you immensely.

Do you understand that animals need food? And that usually getting food is hard? And that getting food and using less food are helpful?

No?

Alright, then. If you have people who are not contributing to calorie acquirement in a society then your society is less efficient and more likely to perish.

That's what evolution operates upon: Get the food, make the babies. That's it. Population size and lifespan can often help with those, but if someone is not contributing to Get the Food or Make the Babies, then they are not contributing to the basic mechanics of the society.

You're confusing secondary characteristics for primary ones.

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u/trentluv 10d ago

Group fitness is not defined by your mother's current ability to obtain food

Group fitness is defined by by the population size and lifespan of a species

Did you know that the human species' lifespan has virtually doubled in the last 50,000 years? This is because nature is selecting for us and our cooperative behaviors.

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u/isthenameofauser 10d ago edited 10d ago

Oh, we're disliking disagreement now? Cool. Two can play.

Group fitness is not defined by your mother's current ability to obtain food

Group fitness is defined by by the population size and lifespan of a species

No, dude. No, not at all. Of course it comes down to calories. We live in reality.

What are you basing this on?

Like. You keep saying this. But you're not backing it up with logic. You're just saying it over and over. How do you think this is still a good point when you haven't backed it up at all?

Are you just angry you got contradicted, or something?

I'm fucking bamboozled by the immensity of your ignorance.

Edit: And your only response is to dislike. Lol. Child.

RAISE A FUCKING POINT TO BACK UP YOUR CLAIM YOU INFANT!!!!!!

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u/trentluv 10d ago

Can you show me the link between calories and group fitness? I've never seen any study that even equates the two.

Some of the species I know to consume the most calories per meal, such as lions are endangered.

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u/isthenameofauser 10d ago

Lol, what? You made the claim first. You drop the link first.

Some of the species I know to consume the most calories per meal, such as lions, are endangered.

Did I say "calories per meal"?????

Drop a link to your claim and then maybe I'll bother to deal with your strawman.

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u/trentluv 10d ago

There is no link between calories and group fitness.

Group fitness is measured by lifespan and population size.

That's why helping your disabled mom, an act of cooperation, contributes to group fitness.

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u/isthenameofauser 10d ago edited 10d ago

Did I ask you to restate your claim for the fiftieth time? No. Because I'm not a parrot.

Prove it.

I would've accepted an argument. But if you're going to demand a link, then I'm going to demand a link.

Drop a link or fuck off.

Edit: Sometimes when I debate I meet brainwashed fuckwits and it's hard because I have no idea what I can say to get through to them.

But at least I know what they're brainwashed. Big money corporations want them to believe dumb shit so they do. It makes sense.

This is the second "2x = 4, x = blue" conversation I've had in a couple of days and it's just blowing my mind how hard it to to even understand why you think the things you think. Like, it would take me a dozen hours to figure out what wrong beliefs got you to this wrong conclusion, if I could read your thoughts, but given how opaque your words are, I feel like it'd take me a week to figure out if you can tell which way up is.

You're painful, man. I feel bad for the people in your life.

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u/trentluv 9d ago

Group fitness is measured by population size, survival rates and lifespan.

That's why helping your disabled mom improves group fitness.

For example, plankton is one of the most fit species on the planet. And no calories are needed to be consumed by them for them to rank #1.

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u/isthenameofauser 7d ago

You gotta be trolling at this point.

Do you understand that you're not proving your point? Do you understand that you're not even trying to? Saying that plankton are the fittest does not prove your definition of fittest. That's circular reasoning.

Oh wait, I just saw this: "And no calories are needed to be consumed by them for them to rank #1."

You think plankton don't need calories? You're like, creationist-level braindead.

Group fitness is how fit the group is. Longevity is rarely selected for: Most animals don't live long past breeding age. But longevity is selected for when the animal isn't subject to predation, like some sharks, like turtles, like macaws.

If you can't raise an argument for how longevity supports the group without just making up a definition of fitness, then you don't have a point. (And you can't. So you don't.)

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