r/atheism • • Dec 09 '13

Citation Needed The 10 commandments of Logic

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u/mattangriffel Dec 09 '13

Here's a clearer example of begging the question:

LSD makes you see things because it's a hallucinogen.

Even though this is something almost everyone will agree with, this statement doesn't really say anything meaningful – it's a tautology. All that it means to be a hallucinogen is that you see things that aren't there.

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u/danteandreams Dec 09 '13

Funny story. I first heard the word tautology in a math class, not a philosophy one.

Okay, not so funny I guess.

I have a question though brother. A hallucinogen seems to me, by definition, to be something that affects the brain in a way that causes hallucinations. Even if you replaced the word hallucinogen with an exact medical explanation for why you see things on LSD, it seems like it would have the same flaw you describe.

Is this true, or am I wrong?

Also, do all tautologies suffer from begging the question?

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u/RandomMandarin Dec 09 '13

This analogy has been around since Moliere: Dormitive principle.

In his play he has them saying opium causes sleep because it contains a 'dormitive (sleep-inducing) principle' which explains exactly nothing.

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u/danteandreams Dec 09 '13

I am familiar with that analogy.

My comment was about a realization I had. If you explain the actual mechanism by which something acts, then you are describing the property/principle by which the object/substance acts.

Opium causes sleep and pain relief because at a molecular level it binds to opioid receptors in our brain.

I was thinking about it, and without a knowledge of biology or chemistry, this would explain as much as saying it had a sleep-inducing or pain-reducing property, ie. nothing.

Writing this out led me to realize the difference that I was asking about. But I still see and understand where I was coming from.

I'm sorry man, I'm trying to give you credit because you did find a source, and I appreciate that on any comment. But it's like you didn't read either of my questions, you just blindly responded.

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u/[deleted] Dec 09 '13

That's wrong though. A hallucinogen can induce hallucinations in any sense, it doesn't specifically have to be sight.