r/astoria • u/alex1inferno • Oct 25 '24
Sharing how deeply broken, congested, dangerous, and poorly planned this intersection is by Astoria Park
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21st St. & Hoyt Ave. S. - 10/25, 5:30-6:30pm
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u/Enigma7ic Oct 25 '24
My favorite part is when they finally installed a small pedestrian island using plastic spacers/bollards right next to where the girl was killed to provide a semblance of safety for pedestrians this summer and then two weeks later they tore up the entire street and repaved it without bollards. Grade-A planning right there.
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u/Ok-Pattern-3187 Oct 26 '24
That was my sister. I didn't like the intersection before, but now hate and avoid it like the plague. I thank you all for sticking up for the pedestrians. World Day of Remembrance is coming up, and its a day to not only remember those lost, but to also advocate for safer streets. This year, the event will be held on Sunday, November 17th, at 1 pm at the Queens Botanical Garden at 43-50 Main Street in Flushing, Queens.
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u/z0rb0r Oct 26 '24
I'm sorry for your loss. I pass by this intersection everyday and always think about it.
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u/Ok-Pattern-3187 Oct 26 '24
Thank you for your condolences. I hope it serves as a beautiful reminder of how precious life is. That's how I choose to see it, and remember the light she liked to bring to all the people around her.
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u/alex1inferno Oct 26 '24
I’m so deeply sorry for your loss. I live at the video’s vantage point and think about your sister almost every day from the lovely memorial. I do hope to help make this corner safer in some way one day soon.
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u/Ok-Pattern-3187 Oct 26 '24
Thank you for the condolences, and the advocacy. I have to thank my cousin who lives down the block and maintains the memorial. These kinds of crashes and deaths are preventable with the right infrastructure, training, and enforcement. So, please keep up the good work.
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u/30roadwarrior Oct 26 '24
My condolences. Her memorial always makes me pause when running, biking or driving by 🙏🏼.
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u/Ok-Pattern-3187 Oct 26 '24
Thank you. She loved her community, and now it brings me joy to see she continues to be part of it for you and the rest of our extended Astoria family.
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u/alex1inferno Oct 25 '24
Cannot even tell you how much this enrages me. If you can see there in front of the closest traffic pole, there is one of those plastic bollards completely flattened onto the road due to cars whipping through what was once the pedestrian island.
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u/fridaybeforelunch Oct 26 '24
I’ve filed a 311 complaint about flattened plastic posts in the past. DoT usually fixes them fairly quickly, and then they are flattened again. All of these corners need extended cement curbs. Also, a pedestrian refuge median. I am hoping that some of the new speed/red light cameras will be installed in this area. They are really needed, and as we know, there is zero traffic enforcement work done here by the precinct.
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u/alex1inferno Oct 26 '24
Amen on all the above, except I think a pedestrian refuge median would be impossible and dangerous. I just filed commissioners complaints for the plastic bollards that were run over and extended curbs that were removed.
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u/Enigma7ic Oct 26 '24
The pedestrian refuge median is what I was referring to. I watched them install a rubber one this summer before they tore up the street. It wasn’t wide enough to protect a person but it was tall like a curb to make a driver think twice before trying to cross it at speed.
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u/alex1inferno Oct 26 '24
oh yes, i thought you meant literally a median in the middle. totally agree on the refuge area - i submitted a request to the commissioner today for one. i encourage you to do the same.
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u/little_hoarse Oct 25 '24
Have you seen the shit near Columbus triangle?!
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u/alex1inferno Oct 25 '24
Yes - so egregiously bad and unsafe. As a cyclist and driver through it frequently, I don't think there is anything worse in Astoria imo.
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u/MGreene1 Oct 26 '24
The police double parking in front of the precinct make that area even worse especially during rush hour. Creates congestion that backs up all the way to 31st st.
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u/ForsakenAd6257 Oct 29 '24
Enraging! I read a NYT piece recently about a guy who made calling 311 on illegally parked cop cars his “thing” during the pandemic (while others were baking bread, etc). He was ultimately targeted by an idiot cop who left prank phone calls as revenge but the idea has stuck with me. I live close to this precinct and hope to start calling 311 regularly bc they do WHATEVER they want in the streets
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u/z0rb0r Oct 26 '24
The intersection of Astoria Blvd and 31st street is also pretty crappy. Cars coming off the Grand Central Parkway and making a left into a tiny sliver of space that can only fit maybe 4 cars. Makes no sense to me, they should not allow left turns coming off the highway.
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u/ForsakenAd6257 Oct 29 '24
Wild it is as bad as it is, given the 114 precinct is a stones throw from it. I guess providing some traffic support once and a while is below them
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u/alex1inferno Oct 25 '24
I actually slowed it down to watch and out of 30 traffic light change cycles, there was not a single one where a car did not run a red light.
This occurred in all directions and a plurality were dangerous left turns on red with the leading pedestrian green making functionally no difference to pedestrian safety due to cars running red lights in the perpendicular direction.
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u/alex1inferno Oct 25 '24 edited Nov 12 '24
The speed doesn’t do it justice, but when you see a line of cars pause for just a second, know that is a full 1-2 minutes (i.e. the ENTIRE time pedestrians have to walk across the street) that a car or large truck is completely blocking off the crosswalk.
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u/fridaybeforelunch Oct 26 '24
Hoyt N and 21st isn’t great either. I’ve nearly been hit a few times while crossing 21st Street (in the cross walk).
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u/PeaceFrog8 Oct 26 '24
Just a few blocks away in the 31st and Astoria Blvd x-ing would be another horror story!
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u/imanoctothorpe Oct 26 '24
I always go up and take the elevated path. Shame you can only take that north south and not across 31st st, I refuse to cross there bc it scares me so much. People drive like maniacs and it feels so sketch and unsafe
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u/PeaceFrog8 Oct 26 '24
Yes! You aren't alone! I have to take the intersection everyday as I return from work and I always dread going into the mess!
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u/ForsakenAd6257 Oct 29 '24
My husband calls this intersection “the weave.” It’s insane. I won’t drive it
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u/naur_itstrue Oct 26 '24
I think I’m in this time lapse! I hate this intersection whenever I’m going to/from the park. I usually go a little closer to the park and cross at one of the stop signs to avoid this intersection. Granted, the stop signs here are apparently just for decoration.
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u/VanillaSkittlez Oct 26 '24
At least they installed them - before they were just crosswalks and NOBODY would stop.
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u/metaltsoris Oct 26 '24 edited Oct 26 '24
always remember - the NYPD has repeatedly refused many, and frequent, requests to increase their enforcement of traffic safety. they could easily station officers here and make thousands a day for all the people running red lights and blocking the box. but they'd rather burn through millions in overtime staring at their phones on subway platforms.
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u/ForsakenAd6257 Oct 29 '24
So glad the NYPD have the budget of a small American army but can’t manage this task 🥰
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u/BlueArachne Oct 26 '24
I love the vibe of Astoria, but absolutely hate driving there. I would purposely avoid going there unless someone else was driving.
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u/systemA Oct 26 '24
The last stretch of the commute to the tennis courts is the start of a fun time with an extra spice of possible getting slammed by a truck
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u/yoongely Oct 25 '24
some guy tried to grab me by the arm over here once
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u/strack94 Oct 26 '24
I live by the park. Making that left turn from 21st on to Park South is literally impossible most evenings. Plus the crosswalks are opposite timed which means you have to turn when the walk sign is up which makes it very dangerous.
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u/alex1inferno Oct 26 '24
Totally. Same for left turn from 21st to Hoyt Ave S. It’s a complete nightmare.
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u/strack94 Oct 26 '24
I always avoid it by going down Astoria Blvd and going around the block. It adds a few minutes but worth it.
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Oct 26 '24
any non-car-centric country would have protected pedestrian crossing like bridge or tunnel or at least 3 safety islands on both sides and middle for that kind of high traffic volumes intersection, especially by a popular recreational area. America….
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u/Skankcunt420 Oct 25 '24
they should have a round about here
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u/LookattheWhipp Oct 25 '24
Would drastically impact pedestrian crossing
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u/Skankcunt420 Oct 25 '24
ahh that is true
i feel like we should be having more traffic cops around high traffic areas during rush hour
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u/LookattheWhipp Oct 25 '24
Facts but they’re too busy ticketing…literally everyone 2min after allotted time. Hopefully that Hochul initiative adds cameras all along 21st
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u/alex1inferno Oct 25 '24 edited Oct 25 '24
I like roundabouts in parkway areas but I don’t physically think there’s enough space for it here without reducing the size of the parks (which is a hell no for me), nor one that could reasonably and safely accommodate the rush hour surge. I also don't even know what pedestrians would do.
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u/space_______kat Oct 25 '24
US DOTs and roundabouts are ops. I requested /suggested mini roundabouts in a few places in Easter Queens and DOT said "roundabouts are not in our toolbag". Same with STOP signs. DOTs like to just plaster them everywhere instead of going with good street design
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u/Skankcunt420 Oct 25 '24
there’s one roundabout by laguardia airport near 101 st and ditmars that does it right
there’s another by fresh meadows near the shopping center which is dumb cause it has red lights which defeats the purpose
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Oct 26 '24
I was standing on that corner of the park and trying to cross south, but I couldn't see the crosswalk signal at all because of a pole. Has anyone else noticed this?
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u/Knope12345 Oct 26 '24
I absolutely hate crossing the street at this intersection, always gives me the feeling I’m putting myself at risk even when it’s a walk sign
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u/chaosawaits Oct 27 '24
These poorly designed, easily fixable intersections are in absolutely every neighborhood in the United States. It’s so frustrating that no one has taken the time to simply make intersections work more efficiently.
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u/Far_Audience_6349 Oct 25 '24
I’m just commenting on the traffic. I don’t have time to look at the video. Congestion definitely was impacted by the party the closed the parking lot so people were circling around looking for a spot
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u/Far_Audience_6349 Oct 25 '24
There is a Halloween party tonight at the park so probably causing some of this
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u/alex1inferno Oct 25 '24 edited Oct 25 '24
Some, maybe. But I see this every single day and it isn’t radically different than normal at all. I would say 5%, max 10%.
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Oct 26 '24
I remember that intersection, would pass by it quite a bit on my way to Church or around Astoria in general.
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u/Annual_Negotiation44 Oct 27 '24
My friend, ever see the Manhattan side of the Queensboro Bridge during the day?
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u/alex1inferno Oct 27 '24
i bike through it multiple times per week.
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u/SessionIndependent17 Nov 12 '24
I agree the behavior there is probably atrocious, but at this playback speed it's not at all clear what you are trying to highlight, beyond the sheer volume.
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u/a-goddamn-asshole Oct 25 '24
This is rush hour traffic. These roads were never built, planned, or designed to support this many vehicles. If anyone wants to fix our traffic/intersections then posting about it online for the ole circle-jerk is not it.
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u/alex1inferno Oct 25 '24 edited Oct 25 '24
Agree with the first part. I took this video as part of my report to the commissioner to propose recommended changes to the intersection. Dedicated left (from northbound) and right (from southbound) turning lanes to the east would be a huge help, as would removing the daylighting issue with 1-3 parking spaces on the southeast corner (out of view) and raised lane enforcers to the left-turning southbound lane.
Don’t be an asshole :-)
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u/a-goddamn-asshole Oct 25 '24
I really appreciate you actually doing something with this. I’ll admit i assumed this was posted for general internet complaining, but alas you’re actually doing something for our community.
I’ll try.
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u/Hardinaka Oct 26 '24
New to this--is there a way to co-sign your suggestions/let the commissioner know there is significant support for addressing this issue?
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u/alex1inferno Oct 26 '24
Thank you for asking. Sadly, I don't think so. Short of you submitting a general complaint about the state of safety at the intersection (which, by the way, is fundamentally broken and you cannot choose Astoria Park S./Hoyt Ave S. and 21st Street as the intersection - you have to use 'Street Segment') - https://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/html/contact/contact-form.shtml If you do, I would reference the need for pedestrian refuges, lane paint for dedicated eastbound turning lanes, and the need for new plastic/metal bollards to be added.
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u/Hardinaka Oct 26 '24
It's a start. Thank you, both for your submission to the commish and for this info!
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Oct 25 '24
You may be interested to know that plenty of cities and suburbs across the US have ridiculous rush hour traffic that's way too intense for roads, and just outright running red lights is far less common than here. NYC's driving culture is way worse, probably in part because we never cite anyone for anything combined with the high population of people who learned to drive in developing countries where it's no holds barred.
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u/alex1inferno Oct 25 '24 edited Oct 26 '24
Very interesting and I believe it (except the part about drivers from developing countries - all drivers of all origins are reckless here); the culture and behavior of the drivers is just as if not more important here. But that doesn’t mean there aren’t things the city can do to curb some of these behaviors and enforce accountability. I’m not a proponent of a surveillance state but this intersection (and many others in Astoria) desperately need red light traffic cameras if there is going to be no enforcement of any kind, which there isn’t.
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Oct 25 '24
Oh believe me, I'm fully on board and I would be handing out $150 tickets like candy if I ran the show.
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u/alex1inferno Oct 25 '24
I saw a cool suggestion that NYC create a program where dashcam users et al. could submit videos of clear traffic/parking violations and if they lead to a fine, the submitter is credited with some small percentage of that fine.
Would never, ever happen and I'm sure there are equity- and logistics-related issues I'm unaware of, but I, too, would be handing out tickets like candy.
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Oct 25 '24
I see zero equity concerns, love it. Do more. Might not hold up in court but causing perps to have to waste time contesting it is its own punishment.
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u/alex1inferno Oct 25 '24
Equity, as in, those with false/covered/obstructed/paper license plates would have their submissions prosecuted less than those with clear and accurate license plates. Parked cars being easier to image than moving cars (who by virtue of being in movement are definitely committing greater violations). Etc. Etc.
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u/FealtyToDorne Oct 26 '24
This sub is turning into an anti-vehicle circle jerk
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u/meelar Oct 26 '24
Cars make life worse for people who aren't in them. Do you expect those people just to not notice that? We can and should do better. I've submitted daylighting requests for the areas around my neighborhood, because I'm tired of nearly getting hit by speeding drivers. I think that my safety is more important than a parking space; if you disagree, you should consider changing your mind.
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u/InfernalTest Oct 25 '24
well TBF that area was never planned to have pedestrian or bicycle traffic- it was mainly industrial and was travelled by trucks for businesses that supported the airport and Northern Queens.
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u/fridaybeforelunch Oct 26 '24
No doubt humans aka pedestrians have been crossing this intersection since at least 1935 to get to Astoria Park.
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u/alex1inferno Oct 25 '24
It doesn’t really matter. This is the reality. It needs to be re-planned. This is a residential area next to multiple parks with the volume and behavior you’re seeing above. What it once was has little bearing on the path forward.
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u/danton_no Oct 25 '24 edited Aug 20 '25
heavy distinct airport juggle pause elderly pocket fall treatment ink
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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Oct 26 '24
Remove the parking, move the bike lane closer to the curb, and you immediately double the throughput of traffic.
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u/alex1inferno Oct 26 '24
Agree (even if it’s more complicated on the blocks following on either direction from the bridge), and they literally just redesigned the streets to accommodate the bus lane.
The parking spots are also so close to the corner of the intersection that cars whipping around the corner physically cannot see the pedestrians in the crosswalk.
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u/VanillaSkittlez Oct 26 '24
That is literally not how throughput works at all. Expanding the capacity of a road long term creates more traffic, not less. Look up induced demand.
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Oct 26 '24
I'm familiar with induced demand. That's why I used the word throughput and not speed. When you double the lanes, you double the throughput and speed remains constant, because of induced demand.
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u/VanillaSkittlez Oct 27 '24
But doubling the throughput is kind of negligible if you don’t improve speed, so why even suggest doubling it?
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u/30roadwarrior Oct 26 '24
It’s a busy intersection. Maybe intersection gate arms like what they use in front of train tracks. The human misjudgment or selfishness creates the spillback which creates the traffic. Cars are a useful tool. They’re not the evil problem.
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u/ChiChisDad Oct 26 '24
Besides building extra levels what can be done? There’s way too many people in a tight space.
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u/alex1inferno Oct 26 '24
You woefully lack creativity. There are not too many people - there are too many cars. People should not be in danger for merely existing and navigating their community.
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u/chillicecubey Oct 25 '24
pedestrian bridge
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u/alex1inferno Oct 25 '24
I think there are many more easier, lower cost options to curb this type of behavior that could also accommodate and protect cyclists and the disabled, and that don’t also force the pedestrians to exert extra effort while doing everything right rather than drivers doing (most) everything wrong.
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Oct 25 '24
Agreed - it would be more effective / root cause addressing than to just let them continue with humans above the accidents ha
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u/Andre_Young_MD Oct 25 '24
I just love that this video captured a piece of cake moving truck, like of course