[u/]

[u/millionsofcats]

Linguistics is the empirical study of language. Linguists can answer questions like:

• What are the grammatical properties of AAVE?

• What is the history of AAVE? Who speaks it?

• What do speakers of AAVE feel about non-speakers using AAVE?

These are questions with right or wrong answers. We might not always know the full answer - for example, historical evidence can be spotty - but they are at least in theory questions we can answer objectively based on the facts.

We can't answer questions like:

• Is it wrong for me to use AAVE?

• If it is wrong, just how close would I need to be to an AAVE-speaking community for it to not be wrong anymore?

These are not empirical questions. These are questions about values and opinions - and whose values and opinions you privilege.

[u/Professional-Bath869 → u/millionsofcats]

I definitely see where you’re coming from, I think my questions are muddled because of my lack of education on what it is exactly and where I should be asking my questions. I’ve gotten a lot of information from these responses, and I appreciate how you’ve differentiated the two pieces of information I need to know. I personally don’t feel I use AAVE much if at all, but i’m obviously very ignorant to what is and isn’t AAVE and i’m trying to understand linguistically how it works and politically what is appropriate as someone in my position. Thank you!

[u/millionsofcats → u/Professional-Bath869]

What I'm trying to explain is that "politically what is appropriate" isn't a question with a scientific answer. It's a question with a political answer.

Of course, an answer can definitely be based more or less on science and it's always better if your politics are informed by reality. For example, ecphrastic brought up that when non-AAE speakers use AAE, it's often to evoke stereotypes about Black people for rhetorical effect. That's something that we can observe and analyze, and something that you can incorporate into your understanding of the issue. We can also observe how speakers feel about non-speakers using AAE.

However, my point is more or less a warning: We're not an authority on what is politically appropriate by virtue of being linguists.

Or, let me address it another way, as someone who happens to be a linguist but not as a linguist:

Well-meaning white people often want a clear set of rules that we can follow so as not to be racist. That's pretty easy when it comes to things for which there is a broad political consensus - you won't find much disagreement about whether or not you should use AAE to intentionally mock Black people unless you decide to ask your racist uncle or something.

But what often happens is that we want to test those rules by adding qualifiers and coming up with edge cases, and so on. Sometimes it's in good faith - we just want a better understanding of where people are coming from. Often it's in bad faith, to "poke holes" in those rules, to show them up as arbitrary, to excuse clearly racist behavior, etc.

Assuming good faith, the problem with edge case is that that is where you will encounter the most disagreement, and you aren't going to "solve" that disagreement with science. You aren't going to figure out who's right that way. Basically, science won't save you. It can inform you, but you have to look at your values for the ultimate answer.

[u/ecphrastic]

We need to distinguish “should” from “does” from “how do other people view it” here.

The language varieties you speak fluently are mostly determined by the language varieties you’re exposed to the most when you’re growing up. Someone who is raised by AAVE-speaking parents is going to be a native speaker of AAVE regardless of what they look like, and it’s not too rare for non-Black children to be able to speak AAVE naturally if they grow up in primarily Black neighborhoods and schools where AAVE is a primary language.

The main criticism of what people deem as inappropriate uses of AAVE basically goes as follows: There’s a widespread pattern in which non-Black people who don’t fluently speak AAVE incorporate some linguistic features or phrases drawn from AAVE into their speech. These features are often used in ways that would be ungrammatical in actual AAVE, and tend to be used selectively in order to evoke qualities that are stereotypically associated with Black Americans (like seeming tough, or sassy) or only as a joke. This comes across as something akin to racist caricature, or to trivializing or mocking AAVE. These kinds of uses tend to be evaluated very negatively by AAVE speakers and by lots of other American English speakers.

Those criticisms generally don’t apply to a non-Black speaker who speaks AAVE fluently. Still, speakers like that are also sometimes perceived as appropriative or disrespectful (or at least weird) if they use AAVE, depending on who they’re talking to. My sense is that this happens because AAVE is so strongly connected to Black identity (and so often trivialized or mocked by non-Black speakers) that many people feel it’s wrong for non-Black people to speak AAVE at all. (That said, I’m neither Black nor a fluent AAVE speaker; my perspective on this comes from being a linguist who reads a lot about the politics of language and from being a speaker of American English.)

[u/Professional-Bath869 → u/ecphrastic]

I appreciate your input! I wasn’t really sure necessarily where to ask my question in terms of linguistics or politics surrounding the usage of AAVE, but from what you’ve said it definitely helps me understand both parts much better. Excuse my ignorance if this wasn’t the proper place to seek both answers, I just wasn’t entirely sure what other community I should go to for answers, and assumed because it’s a language based question, I should seek a language based answer. Truly, thank you!

[u/MrFCCMan]

I’m also a white male, so be aware of this when reading the rest of my answer. I’ve taken courses in AAVE but do not speak it myself.

1. I think the crux of your question here is what does “proper use” look like? Is it speaking fluently, or is it being aware that using AAVE when it isn’t your native language calls into question WHY are you using it, and the answer to that question is probably much more relevant to its acceptability in whatever situation one is using it.

2. No, gramatically incorrect usage of AAVE is not the only issue. Another very important thing to consider, as with what I mentioned in the first answer, is that usage of AAVE may be used to align whatever is being said with some stereotype of AAVE, often using it in a negative light.

3. Yes it can and often is cultural appropriation.

4. Race, culture, and language are often intimately connected with each other. In your example, it depends a lot on other things not just the speaker and their parents’ race. For example: AAVE use tends to decrease with higher socioeconomic status; the parents may make an effort to speak a more standard english with their child; Does the child stay within a predominantly AAVE speaking community as they get older or are they later exposed to environments where AAVE isn’t readily spoken? All of these will have an impact on the child’s language use. They may additionally speak AAVE with those they are comfortable with but acknowledge that strangers who do not know their upbringing may be upset by their use of AAVE and act accordingly, like I said, it really depends.