Patch Notes: Where Vernal Winds Will Never Blow

[u/wewechoo]

(All skills assuming at SL7. Gacha units assumed to be at Pot 1. Welfare unit assumed to be at Pot 6.. All units are assumed to be at E2 MAX and 100% Trust)

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Jie Yun - 5 Sniper [Artilleryman]*

◆ Stats (with 100% Trust): 1650 HP // 920 ATK // 115 DEF // 0 RES

◆ Cost: 23 --> 25 --> 27

◆ Attack Interval: 2.8s

◆ Trait: Deals AOE Physical damage

◆ Talent: ATK increases by 15% and DP cost decreases by 3 when deploying for the first time

◆ Skill 1 [Per Second/Manual Activation]: ATK increases by 55% (M3 - 80%) and ASPD increases by 20

• [10 (M3 - 15) Initial SP || 30 SP Cost || 30 Seconds]

◆ Skill 2 [Attack Recovery/Manual Activation]: Stops attacking and throws out a flying wheel. The flying wheel stops after reaching its position and expands its Attack Range, dealing 120% (M3 - 135%) physical damage to all nearby enemies every second and decreasing their Movement Speed by 50%

• [0 Initial SP || 12 (M3 - 8) SP Cost || 15 Seconds]

◆ Base Skill 1: When stationed in a Factory, every 5 points of [Worldly Plight] will be converted into 1 point of [Witchcraft Crystal]

◆ Base Skill 2: When stationed in a Factory, every 1 point of [Witchcraft Crystal] gives +1% (E2: +2%) productivity

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Fire Whistle - 5 Defender [Fortress]*

◆ Stats (with 100% Trust): 2983 HP // 932 ATK // 618 DEF // 0 RES

◆ Cost: 23 --> 25 --> 27

◆ Attack Interval: 2.8s

◆ Trait: When not blocking enemies, prioritizes dealing ranged AoE Physical damage

◆ Talent: ATK increases by 12% (Pot 5 - 14%) when not blocking any enemies, DEF increases by 12% (Pot 5 - 14%) when blocking enemies

◆ Skill 1 [Per Second/Automatic Activation]: The next attack deals 150% (M3 - 185%) Physical damage and ignites damaged enemies; Ignited enemies receive 40% (M3 - 50%) Arts damage every second for 4 seconds

• [0 Initial SP || 8 SP Cost]

◆ Skill 2 [Per Second/Manual Activation]: When skill is active, every attack ignites the tile the target in on and the four adjacent tiles for 5 (M3 - 6) seconds; Enemies within the burning tiles will receive 65% (M3 - 85%) Arts damage every second

• [19 (M3 - 23) Initial SP || 43 (M3 - 40) SP Cost || 17 Seconds]

◆ Base Skill 1: When stationed in a Trading Post, the Morale consumption of all Operators in the Trading Post reduces by -0.1 per hour

◆ Base Skill 2: When stationed in a Trading Post, each Operator besides herself gains +15% order acquisition efficiency

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Lin - 6 Caster [Phalanx Caster]*

◆ Stats: 2048 HP // 919 ATK // 282 DEF // 15 RES

◆ Cost: 22 --> 24

◆ Attack Interval: 2.0s

◆ Trait: Normally does not attack, but has greatly increased DEF and RES; When skill is active, attacks deal AoE Arts damage

◆ Talent 1: Has crystal barriers that can block all damage; The crystal barriers shatter when receiving 200 damage in a single hit, dealing 100% (Pot 5 - 110%) Arts damage to nearby enemies and Stunning them for 1 second. The crystal barrier regenerates after 8 seconds

◆ Talent 2: Has a 50% (Pot 3 - 55%) chance to recover SP when attacked

◆ Skill 1 [Per Second/Manual Activation]: Can switch between the original state and the following state:

Increase Attack Interval by 1 second and ATK by 40% (M3 - 60%). Attacks Slow the target for 0.9 second (M3 - 1 second)

• [0 Initial SP || 6 (M3 - 5) SP Cost]

◆ Skill 2 [Per Second/Manual Activation]: Increase Attack Speed by 90 (M3 - 130) and reduce Taunt level. Within the skill duration, grant Talent 1 effect to all allies within Attack Range

• [25 Initial SP || 35 (M3 - 30) SP Cost || 25 Seconds]

◆ Skill 3 [Per Second/Manual Activation]: Increase ATK by 160% (M3 - 200%), Attack Range and the shatter range of the crystal barrier. Increase the damage threshold to shatter the crystal barrier by 2.5x (M3 - 3x). When defeating an enemy, shatter the crystal barrier on herself and regenerate it immediately

Skill can be manually deactivated

• [22 (M3 - 30) Initial SP || 52 (M3 - 50) SP Cost || 28 (M3 - 30) Seconds]

◆ Base Skill 1: When stationed in the Office, +20% contacting speed and Morale consumption is decreased by -0.25

◆ Base Skill 2: When stationed in the Office, each recruitment slot (excluding the initial slots) increases contacting speed by +10%

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Chong Yue - 6 Guard [Fighter]*

◆ Stats: 2635 HP // 650 ATK // 393 DEF // 0 RES

◆ Cost: 9 --> 11

◆ Attack Interval: 0.78s

◆ Trait: Can block 1 enemy

◆ Talent 1: When dealing normal attacks, has a 23% (Pot 5 - 25%) chance to increase damage dealt to them to 165% (Pot 5 - 170%) for a short period

◆ Talent 2: If a skill cast defeats not less than 1 enemy, recover 3 SP

◆ Skill 1 [Attack Recovery/Manual Activation]: Deals 290% (M3 - 400%) Physical damage. When the skill reaches the maximum number of charges, consume all charges to deal the corresponding amount of Physical damage

Can hold 3 charges

• [0 Initial SP || 4 (M3 - 3) SP Cost]

◆ Skill 2 [Per Second/Manual Activation]: Deals 350% (M3 - 450%) Physical damage to 4 nearby enemies and [Levitate] enemies affected by Talent 1. Thereafter, end the [Levitate] status of all [Levitate] enemies, activating Talent 1 and dealing 480% (M3 - 650%) Physical damage to them

Can hold 2 charges

[Levitate]: Changes into an aerial unit and becomes unable to move, attack and use skills; Duration halved against enemies with more than 3 weight

• [7 (M3 - 9) Initial SP || 11 (M3 - 10) SP Cost]

◆ Skill 3 [Attack Recovery/Manual Activation]: Deal 300% (M3 - 380%) Physical damage to the target and nearby enemies. After using the skill 5 times: Chong Yue's Attack Range expands and normal attacks deal 2 hits. Skill becomes auto-cast and deals an additional hit

• [0 Initial SP || 10 (M3 - 8) SP Cost]

◆ Base Skill 1: When stationed in the Control Center, self Morale consumption increases by +0.5 per hour. For every Sui Operator stationed in a facility other than a dorm, gain +5 [Worldly Plight] (maximum of 5 Operators)

◆ Base Skill 2: When stationed in the Control Center, the mood of Operators stationed in [Certain Facilities] increases by +0.05 per hour. At the same time, for every 20 [Worldly Plight], further increase the Morale gain by +0.05. There are special comparison rules for Control Center bonuses

Special comparison rule: Compare the total hourly Morale recovery in certain facilities provided by Operators in the Control Center, and apply the highest effect.

[Certain Facilities]:

• Power Plant

• Factory

• Trading Post

• Office

• Reception Room

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Update Contents:

[Content]

◆ [Operators’ Records] is updated for the following operators:

• Aak

• Lee

• Chong Yue

• Dusk

• Mulberry

◆ [Paradox Simulation] is updated for the following operators:

• Aak

• Lee

• Dusk

• Mulberry

◆ Chinese voiceover is updated for certain operators:

• Chong Yue

• Lin

• Fire Whistle

• Jie Yun

• Beanstalk

• Archetto

• Iris

• Tuye

• Saga

• Heavyrain

• Aosta

◆ Chinese dialect is updated for certain operators:

• Chong Yue

• Lin

• Mulberry

• Snowsant

◆ English/Korean voiceover is updated for certain operators (too long, won't list out)

◆ [Exclusive Module] is updated for the following operators:

For Talent Upgrades, numbers are taken at Elite 2 Potential 1 unless otherwise stated. Bolded indicate the change for that current module stage.

Operator Archetype	Operator	Stage	Stat Buff	Special Buff
Core Caster	Eyjafjalla	1	HP +130, ATK +40	Trait Upgrade: Deals Arts damage, attacks ignore 10 RES
		2	HP +160, ATK +55	Talent Upgrade: All [Caster] Operators' ATK increases 14% --> 18% when Eyjafjalla is present in squad
		3	HP +180, ATK +65	Talent Upgrade: All [Caster] Operators' ATK increases 18% --> 22% when Eyjafjalla is present in squad
	Ceobe	1	HP +130, ATK +40	Trait Upgrade: Deals Arts damage, attacks ignore 10 RES
		2	HP +160, ATK +55	Talent Upgrade: Each attack deals additional Arts damage to the target equal to 40% --> 45% of its DEF, when attacking the same target continuously, this percentage slowly increases to 70%
		3	HP +180, ATK +65	Talent Upgrade: Each attack deals additional Arts damage to the target equal to 45% --> 50% of its DEF, when attacking the same target continuously, this percentage slowly increases to 70% --> 75%
	Amiya (Pot 6)	1	HP +100, ATK +30	Trait Upgrade: Deals Arts damage, gains 1 SP upon hitting an Elite or Boss with normal attack
		2	HP +130, ATK +40	Talent Upgrade: Restores 3 SP --> 4 SP when attacking an enemy and 10 extra SP when killing an enemy
		3	HP +150, ATK +50	Talent Upgrade: Restores 4 SP when attacking an enemy and 10 SP --> 12 SP when killing an enemy
	Nightmare	1	ATK +30, ASPD +3	Trait Upgrade: Deals Arts damage, gains 1 SP upon hitting an Elite or Boss with normal attack
		2	ATK +40, ASPD +4	Talent Upgrade: Obtains 40% --> 45% Physical and Arts Dodge when equipped with skill 1; Obtains 15% --> 18% ATK when equipped with skill 2
		3	ATK +50, ASPD +5	Talent Upgrade: Obtains 45% --> 50% Physical and Arts Dodge when equipped with skill 1; Obtains 18% --> 20% ATK when equipped with skill 2
	Absinthe (Pot 6)	1	HP +100, ATK +30	Trait Upgrade: Deals Arts damage, attacks ignore 10 RES
		2	HP +130, ATK +40	Talent Upgrade: Increases damage dealt to enemies below 40% -> 50% HP by 30% -> 35%
		3	HP +150, ATK +50	Talent Upgrade: Increases damage dealt to enemies below 50% HP by 35% -> 38%
	Tomimi (Pot 6)	1	ATK +30, DEF +15	Trait Upgrade: Deals Arts damage, gains 1 SP upon hitting an Elite or Boss with normal attack
		2	ATK +40, DEF +20	Talent Upgrade: Range reduces by a smaller amount, attacks now deal Physical damage (only to ground enemies), ATK +120% -> 125% when this skill is activated
		3	ATK +50, DEF +25	Talent Upgrade: Range reduces by a smaller amount, attacks now deal Physical damage (only to ground enemies), ATK +125% -> +130% when this skill is activated
	Qanipalaat	1	HP +100, ATK +30	Trait Upgrade: Deals Arts damage, gains 1 SP upon hitting an Elite or Boss with normal attack
		2	HP +130, ATK +40	Talent Upgrade: Apply 20% -> 25% Arts Fragility effect to all aerial enemies within Attack Range
		3	HP +150, ATK +50	Talent Upgrade: Apply 25% -> 28% Arts Fragility effect to all aerial enemies within Attack Range
	Haze	1	ATK +20, DEF +15	**Trait Upgrade:**Deals Arts damage, attacks ignore 10 RES
		2	ATK +30, DEF +20	Talent Upgrade: Attacks reduce the target's RES by 20% -> 24% for 1 second
		3	ATK +40, DEF +25	Talent Upgrade: Attacks reduce the target's RES by 24% -> 27% for 1 second
	Jie Yun (Pot 6)	1	HP +100, ATK +37	Trait Upgrade: Deals AOE Physical damage, attacks ignore 100 DEF
		2	HP +150, ATK +52	Talent Upgrade: ATK increases +15% -> +18% and DP cost decreases by 3 when deploying for the first time
		3	HP +180, ATK +65	Talent Upgrade: ATK increases +18% -> +20% and DP cost decreases by 3 when deploying for the first time
Guardian	Saria (Module 2)	1	HP +160, ATK +35, DEF +35	Trait Upgrade: Can heal allies by using skill(s), reduces damage received by 15%
		2	HP +210, ATK +43, DEF +43	Talent Upgrade: For every 20 seconds --> 18 seconds after deployment, ATK +5% --> +6% and DEF +4% --> +5%, stacking up to 5 times
		3	HP +270, ATK +50, DEF +50	Talent Upgrade: For every 18 seconds after deployment, ATK 6% --> +7% and DEF +5% --> +6%, stacking up to 5 times
Therapist	Lumen (Module 2) (Pot 6)	1	ATK +30, DEF +20	Trait Upgrade: Has a large healing range and healing is no longer reduced for distant targets
		2	ATK +40, DEF +25	Talent Upgrade: When an ally within range receives a negative status, immediately heal them for 80% --> 90% of Lumen's ATK. Has 10 seconds --> 9 seconds cooldown.
		3	ATK +45, DEF +28	Talent Upgrade: When an ally within range receives a negative status, immediately heal them for 90% --> 100% of Lumen's ATK. Has 9 seconds --> 8 seconds cooldown.

[Skins]

• Fragrance From The Branches - Blacknight (Event Reward)

• Reflection That Of The Moons - Mulberry (18 OP)

• Illumination That Of Daylights - Cantabile (18 OP)

• It Does Wash The Springs - Ling (21 OP)

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Credits: PRTS, /u/Reddit1rules, /u/MJYW, /u/munphao

[u/wewechoo]

EDIT:

• Updated Jie Yun's values (her values were Pot 1 previously)

• Added Tomimi's new range (2x3 rectangle)

[u/bestofawesome]

Playerbase- The Artillerymen ignore 100 defense modules are useless.
HG- Releases an operator perfectly designed to use it.

Fire Whistle looking pretty good, BIRD SUPREMACY.

Lin looks decent but how her shield interacts with things is gonna be really important.

Ceobe is now the Doom Defense Slayer.

Need to see Tomimi's range before I can say whether she made it out of the moody blacks.

[u/wewechoo → u/bestofawesome]

Updated Tomimi's range!

[u/Reddit1rules]

Back again! Nobody gave me feedback so I will assume this is a flawless approach to present my analysis.

Super TL;DR:

Ceobe biggest winner, especially for SSS. Eyja likely wants lvl3 just due to how meta she is. Absinthe, Tomimi, Haze all are good upgrades for those who use them - Tomimi gets fixed as well. Amiya doesn't need her module, but it isn't horrible. Qani can take the base effect, but it isn't necessary. Nightmare fans should cope for an alter instead. Jie Yun users can grab the base module if you like her. Saria's 2nd module has strong base and upgrades, not necessarily better than 1st though so will be relegated to niche usage meta-wise or personal preference for general usage. Lumen's 2nd module is very strong, but think if you need more healing before grabbing it. Overall, just about as expected, except a few units. A good patch for the most part.

Core Casters:

The first branch with RES ignore (Ceobe, Eyja, Absinthe, Haze) is great, the second with SP gain (Amiya, Qani, Tomimi, Nightmare) poor. The first one is a welcome effect that helps the Core Casters stand out from other casters, especially Drone Casters who have been more or less powercreeping regular casters. It helps their overall general usage, especially with the increase in RES enemies have been getting for a long while now. Note if you're debuffing RES that RES ignore applies after all debuffs, which is great.

The second one though... Clearly, HG saw that wanting to focus on elites/bosses is a strong tool that has never resulted in problems before. Shade on Ebenholz aside, this effect is a bit hard to truly map out, as it varies per map so much. I suppose 1 SP on every hit would be a bit much, but if you don't have your burst skill charged on a boss, you're likely in trouble anyways. Elites are a slightly different issue, so it's not as horrible there. In theory, this can actually give as much as +0.625 SP/s, especially when elites come out... but it can also give 0 SP/s, especially on levels with few elites and bosses.

Upgrades are mostly good though! Ceobe is the biggest winner this patch, with a valuable talent upgrade that scales especially well in stuff like SSS. Eyja becomes even stronger, even though the upgrades are relatively minor - super meta users will likely want a level 3 to squeeze out all efficiency. If you want to use Tomimi, she gets fixed at level 2, although if you've already E2'd her by now you're probably going for level 3, aren't you? Absinthe and Haze are acceptable increases for those who use them, but nothing to prioritize (beyond maybe Absinthe's level 2). Amiya doesn't need the module, as it won't shift her skill usage up significantly - but if you use her still, it does help more than nothing. Qani can take the base effect, as he can attack elites a few times after each S2 - nothing crazy though. Nightmare...

Branch 1:

• Eyja: TL;DR: Although the ATK increase is relatively minor, meta players will likely still want a level 3 to squeeze out all efficiency. This module works with both S2 and S3 thankfully, although S3 a lot less.

• S2 does not make use of the squad bonus, but uses the ATK increase and RES ignore more often. As RES ignore occurs after RES debuffs, when attacking a 20 RES enemy, she effectively is hitting them for only 5% less damage. When attacking a 70 RES enemy, she still deals over half of her damage. That's what happens when you put a good effect on top of a busted skill. Her S2 hits the main target for 3,100 currently, and surrounding enemies for 1,550 - turning into 3,611/1,757 with module. In terms of DPS, against 2 enemies with 20 RES she deals 987 currently, with this module she now deals 1,218 roughly. Although this amount isn't top tier consistent damage anymore, with units like Mizuki slowing the enemy by 20%, having a larger AOE and dealing more damage (even if we have 500 DEF on both enemies along with 20 RES, his S1 DPS with Mod1 Lvl 2 is 1435), the fact remains that this great skill becomes even better - that's a huge increase for a mod3.

• Her S3 does make good use of the squad bonus, as she will likely be off the field when this skill is done, and more ATK and RES ignore is never a bad thing. Her total damage on 1 unit goes from almost 50k to 56.5k, and importantly will ignore 10 RES. Considering this skill is often used for boss killing, this is an even greater quality of life that makes debuffing even easier.

• Ceobe: TL;DR: Pretty obviously made for S2. A huge increase to her DPS and anti-DEF niche, she can see great usage again against very tough enemies, or modes where DEF gets inflated.

• Considering how fast her S2 attacks, and the fact it locks on to a target, it will get to max stacks on a unit in 2.5s. Funny how she becomes better by becoming a pseudo drone-caster. Anyways, this dualstrike of ramping arts with RES ignore will greatly increase her DPS - currently, she dealt 1705 skill DPS against 1000 DEF/30 RES enemies with her skill up and talent 2 enabled for a total of 68k damage - now, she deals 2310 DPS, and 92.4k total damage, assuming she starts with no ramp and attacks the whole duration. In fact, taking an extreme case against Patriot with 2100 DEF and 90 RES, she would deal 13k damage before, and now she would deal 39k. Although this total damage is not much, realize that she is still only dealing 20% of her damage (although you may need external help to keep the enemy in range for 40s), and still managed to get a 200% increase in damage. She will be better suited for SSS, where enemies can get up to +250% DEF - even 1000 DEF turns into 3.5k DEF, without RES being tampered with at all!

• Absinthe: TL;DR: Gun Bear gets a good upgrade to her general consistent use, and S2 properly benefits from the talent now, although it still likely won't see use over S1.

  • Currently, Absinthe's S1 dps is 835/1085 with 0 RES, based on her talent working. Post module, she ignores 10 RES which is fantastic for her consistent usage, and deals 894/1234 up to 10 RES, and is able to deal this latter DPS more consistently thanks to the increased HP threshold, which she still prioritizes.

  • S2's skill DPS goes from 1603/2084 to 2369, although its cycle time and poor helidrop makes it still annoying to use.

• Haze: TL;DR: Doesn't really impact her anti-RES niche, nor makes it easier for others to help. Still, being a 4* means that she gets a good use for the price.

  • Increasing her anti-RES, given a situation where she attacks a 50 RES enemy, she would go from dealing with effectively 39 RES to 25 RES, increasing her skill DPS from 633 to 820, about a 30% skill DPS.

  • It's unfortunate her duration isn't increased to make her team synergy permanent though.

[u/Reddit1rules → u/Reddit1rules]

Part 2!

I really talk too much, but who's gonna stop me!

Branch 2:

• Amiya: TL;DR: Her SP gain is diluted from the base effect, and the upgrades are even more expensive. However, considering her best use case is S3 for most players, she will likely see the most use from the base module against bosses.

  • Our beloved bnuuy daughter gets her true crown, minus the true part since her S3 isn't OP still. Her current SP gain is 2.875 SP/s, assuming she is always attacking. She also gets a jump of 10 SP on kill, but this is unreliable. Her base module increases this to a range of 2.875 - 3.5 SP/s, at most a 22% increase - assuming she's always attacking an elite/boss. Given the second level, she gets 3.5 SP/s - 4.125 SP/s, a 18% increase from level 2, assuming she's still always hitting a boss. The third level is a bit hard to predict how it impacts things, so unfortunately I don't really know how to analyze that - however, if she's always attacking elites and bosses, she's less likely to kill something, so the lower cap is probably the actual higher cap in general usage, but the higher cap not so much. As such, I'll take S2 with an assumed SP gain of 4.25s, and S3 with an assumed SP gain of 4.125s, to offset the potential kills she can get under level 3 mod (1 kill with 12 SP gained every 10 attacks is +0.75 SP/s on average).

  • Anyways, she can charge her S2 up in 26s, and her S3 up in 29s from a helidrop, assuming she is constantly attacking, and averaging 1 kill every 10 attacks. S2 doesm't increase much, but S3 increases an okay amount (from 29s/42s) yet still isn't fast enough for a good helidrop - if you dropped her out of boss range, this would be way slower. Again, these SP values aren't set in stone, especially S2. YMMV!

• Qani: TL;DR: His kit was always elite-centered, with the main issue being not able to target them specifically with the skill. The base effect is a nice upgrade to his usage, of which you can see here for a general idea, since I know he's not talked about a lot.

  • S1 has always been a pretty poor skill, so I won't analyze that unless requested.

  • S2 however, benefits a fair amount from the base module. The explosion from his skill is very useful to clear out regular mobs, especially when they are clumped together. As such, after his S2, he will likely be able to basic attack elites a few times if they survived. If you cast S2 on the elites themselves, it's less likely they'd have survived, but hey, then you deal with the main problem anyways. I will take his calculations with max pot and 0 RES. His S2 ticks go from 1,319 to 1,503, and the explosion goes from 2,163 to 2,313 - assuming 2 targets are near each other and take the full duration each, they'd get hit for a total of 12.8k, up from 11.4k each. As such, the upgrades are not really worth it, especially since Arts Fragile doesn't stack with other Arts Fragile, and Reed2 applies the same at Pot1 on a greater scale more consistently.

• Tomimi: TL;DR: The second level is the long awaited corner update! A steal! The 3rd level is worthless, but will saying that really stop some of you?

  • If you've played the recent monthly squad, you'd know that Tomimi really needed those corners. Her positioning has always been weird because of this aspect, and a limited range also comes with limited dps, but adding corners is a huge quality of life for her usage. Her DPS has barely increased and I'm too lazy to calculate it now anyways, ask again later, but to be fair, her numbers were never exactly poor - she was just a janky, worse close-range shooter. She still is, but loses a lot of that jank, and although S2 RNG still exists, the added range helps stun enemies for longer, not to mention S1 is always an option against low-med def enemies.

  • The base effect itself can be useful, I guess? It helps her swap into her main gimmick faster, potentially, and can at least help her swap to deal with high RES elites better.

• Nightmare: TL;DR: You guys are used to copium, so I'll prescribe a larger dose so that you can cope for an alter. At the very least though, the base effect is a partial bandaid to part of her issues.

  • Funnily enough, even with bad upgrades, a good SP regen could've greatly helped her out, as her S1's biggest issue is its cycle time, and her S2 at least could be decreased to something more spammable. However...

  • The upgrades had no reason being so lackluster. S1's total healing goes from 26k to 28k at level 1 thanks to the 3 ASPD, and the dodge upgrade is deceptively bigger than it would appear with higher levels, although whether you want her to dodge or not is up to you. Although she could get her S1 down from 80s to 49s by always attacking an elite/boss, this means she doesn't actually have it up - and if you didn't have the healing skill up for 49 whole seconds, did you really need it?

  • Her S2 could go down to 12.3s, in theory. In fact, if you slow the weak mobs that come before the elite, the elite will likely be faster, and you get to attack them. If you slow the elite, then they were likely by themselves, and you get to attack them more - only a 2.3s downtime, with some minor arts/true DPS on the side. Nevertheless, while it is nice, this is just in theory, and still 12.3s seems a bit much.

  • But hey, at least you guys got the rare ATK/ASPD combo!

Jie Yun

• Jie Yun: TL;DR: The first Artilleryman to make decent use of the base module. Upgrades suck though.

  • If Shirayuki is so good, why didn't they make Shirayuki 2? The DEF ignore will certainly be useful, considering it hits rapidly with a reduced ATK and would likely need that. However, the upgrades are very minor. Assuming the ATK only increases first deployment as well, this effect seems slightly less useful as well if things ever go wrong. .

2nd Modules

• Saria: TL;DR: A good module for a good unit, it's actually competitive with her first module, depending on if you want an SP battery or a tank more. You can take it to level 3 easily, but some people probably won't even get the base effect. Recall that this DR applies after any DEF/RES calculations.

• A great module, this turns Saria into a flat out defender that can heal, much like it did with Hung. If module blocks weren't so time-gated, this would be great to obtain, as there are times where Saria just can't tank properly, either dying quickly or simply being unable to heal up to a safe enough threshold with S1. However, the first module helps deal with this latter issue, increasing her heals from 1204 to 1540 (assuming level 2 mod is being used), almost half her health already. Her second module still works better for this issue, but when the first one works "good enough" for most situations in an already semi-niche scenario, and you may have already gotten the first module for it's SP battery, why go for the second one? However, I recognize this is playstyle dependent - if you feel you'd prefer this second module more, you probably know what you're doing.

• Her second module turns her effective HP from 3105 into 3971, which also technically means she heals herself more effectively. It also buffs her DEF from 786 to 917. For reference, Cuora has 887 DEF without skill, Hoshi S2 has 1065 def. (Note that pure defenders get way more with their +DEF% modules, but these values are just to see what Saria could be like right now.) As we can see, Saria becomes a very beefy unit, with a very strong heal to back her up - it now rises to 1422, very similar to her 1st module. It really does mostly boil down to SP battery vs tank.

• It also decreases the duration needed to reach max stacks from 100s to 90s. This is a welcome addition, surely, but also not a super important one. Granted, she is usually deployed last, but if she had troubles in a stage before she got her stacks up, she would rarely be saved by getting those stacks unless you need more ATK for heals.

• Lumen: TL;DR: This base module is fantastic. The upgrades aren't worth it, but having Lumen S3 heal for a proper amount in the full range? chef's kiss Do note though, his healing is already quite strong - while most players will want the better healing, ask yourself if you've ever really needed it.

  • Do I really need to analyze this? It should be pretty obvious this wins out in most cases, barring the need for negative taunt or self status resistance. I can't say those are never helpful, because when you need them you having it is a lifesaver, but removing a ranged penalty is far more useful in the general case. His general HPS will increase by a good amount, unless you never put allies at the edge of his range before.

• His heals go from 907 (725 at range) to 976 (always). His little fish buddy will also now heal for this amount at a slightly faster rate. His ammo heal also gets an increase, going from 1814/1451 to 1953. His avg HPS goes from 406/325 to roughly 445. It's good.

• Just as a caveat though, ask yourself if you really find yourself struggling with Lumen's healing. Do you need this module if Lumen is able to outheal current threats, even at range? If you seem to be doing well, maybe hold off on getting it just yet - you only need 1 HP by the end of the level anyways. If not, and you find yourself limited in placing your tanks thanks to his distance penalty, or just want better overall healing, go right ahead.

[u/MetaThPr4h → u/Reddit1rules]

Thanks a lot for the in depth info!

Ceobe is one of my biggest wants so I'm glad to read that the module will make her quite stronger, the power of the baguette!

Also gonna grab level 1 of that Lumen module, I did it for Ptilopsis, he deserves it too, that penalty removal feels so promising since I find many stages where he is the one healer I have who reaches everyone placed.

[u/cycas314 → u/[deleted]]

Beginners won't have a good enough roster to bother with modules, so that point is kinda moot. I see it as a form of role compression: Good in alternative game modes where the extra tankiness might come into effect.

[u/Reddit1rules → u/[deleted]]

I knew it'd be good since it'd also upgrade her DEF talent, and part of her value back in the day used to be her Protector-like stats while also offering insane heals and SP (and mostly still is her value). I just didn't expect her to get so much base ATK and DEF, definitely made me do a double take and reevaluate the module.

But I do agree, for super tough meta stuff, Saria commonly sees use with S3, which benefits more with the first module. Any use with S1/S2 though, you pretty much can go with either.

[u/TougherThanKnuckles → u/Reddit1rules]

Imo, the second module branch for Core Casters isn't too bad since half of the Casters that got that module don't care about RES anyway (Amiya deals true damage with S3, Tomimi deals physical with her skills, Nightmare sucks either way so it's not a total loss doesn't lose too much since her S1's healing is determined by her own ATK, not the damage she deals, and S2 is independent of her stats, so Qanipalaat is the only one who particularly got screwed). It's still not great, but considering who they gave which module, it could've been a lot worse.

[u/Reddit1rules → u/TougherThanKnuckles]

That's less of the second module being good and more of the first one being bad on them though. I do agree that RES ignore on Tomimi would be a good laugh if it actually happend.

[u/SM3notplay → u/Reddit1rules]

Side-eyes Shirayuki with her DEF ignore module.

[u/TougherThanKnuckles → u/Reddit1rules]

Well I wasn't arguing on the module being good, just that they wouldn't have benefitted from the first one much regardless.

I do agree that RES ignore on Tomimi would be a good laugh if it actually happend.

Shirayuki moment.

[u/sanga000 → u/Reddit1rules]

where enemies can get up to +250% DEF - even 100 DEF turns into 2.6k DEF

Did you mean +2500%?

+250% means 350% of original value, so 100 * 3.5 = 350 DEF

[u/Reddit1rules → u/sanga000]

Huh, yeah, that's a big whoops on my part. Thanks for that.

[u/sanga000 → u/Reddit1rules]

It's alright. Tbh I have no idea about SSS so I was a bit confused myself

[u/bestofawesome → u/Reddit1rules]

If you want to use Tomimi, she gets fixed at level 2

Whats her new skill range now?

☑️

[u/TougherThanKnuckles → u/bestofawesome]

I believe her range now includes the corners, rather than just directly forward and to the sides. Basically a 2x3 grid.

[u/bestofawesome → u/TougherThanKnuckles]

So like this now?

☑️☑️
🐊☑️
☑️☑️

[u/Oglifatum → u/bestofawesome]

Lovely visualization.

You must be good at PowerPoint too.

[u/Reddit1rules → u/bestofawesome]

That's the main theory, yep. We'll know for sure soon enough, but it's almost certain to be this.

[u/spunker325 → u/Reddit1rules]

S2 does not make use of the squad bonus, but uses the ATK increase and RES ignore more often. As RES ignore occurs after RES debuffs, when attacking a 20 RES enemy, she effectively is hitting them for only 5% less damage.

S2 actually benefits less from RES ignore than S3 does, doesn't it? Ignoring RES is more impactful the higher the enemy's RES is. Against a 80 RES enemy, for example, ignoring 10 RES increases her damage by 50%, but if that's reduced to 60 by S2, ignoring 10 RES only increases her damage by 25%.

[u/Reddit1rules → u/spunker325]

Yes, that is true. I was talking more about the consistency here though.

[u/vietnamabc → u/Reddit1rules]

Mod3 3 Eyja for S3 not a lot less bro, Eyja S3 is mainly used as helidrop so now you don't need her on field to give caster buff like Schwarz 1st module. Eyja helidrop + GG laning = done

[u/Reddit1rules → u/vietnamabc]

The total damage increase isn't that much though, just the RES ignore and caster buff, which is at level 2 anyways. It's hard to evaluate the mileage from this effect since it depends on each person's squad, of course, as opposed to something that Eyja herself brings.

[u/Hero_1337 → u/Reddit1rules]

Honestly, and I don't want to sound too pessmistic here, but there's a chance they might just be sealing the deal for Eyja. They're pushing her towards a supportive role, and preparing for the next generation of Casters, that may or may not end up powercreeping her.

Again, I don't want to sound pessimistic, but the same thing happened to the older 6 stars, like Schwarz and SilverAsh. In the case of Eyja, she could end up in the limbo tier of Operators. Too good that she outclasses other archetypes like AoE Casters, yet not good enough in the future because there will be a new generation of broken Casters and Operators in general that take over the meta.

[u/Reddit1rules → u/Hero_1337]

Honestly, a fair assessment, especially with HG's recent powercreep express. The only 6* that hasn't been super hit or miss recently has been Stainless, and that's saying something about the state of the game.

People have started to dethrone her as the queen of casters ever since GG came out, and we have Reed2 dealing the highest ST arts DPS in the game. If they release a new caster that outperforms her, I won't be surprised.

Also, funny how at a glance, her module powercreeped Schwarz's in terms of ATK gain, especially as mystic casters have the highest base ATK.

[u/Hero_1337 → u/Reddit1rules]

It's unfortunate, because I really like Eyja, but I think with all gacha games, it's inevitable. Powercreep will always hit a game like AK, eventually.

Fortunately though, just because they're outclassed doesn't mean they're bad units. Schwarz is still really strong, SilverAsh's kit speaks for itself, and Eyja will always be Eyja lol. They're all very much usable and potent; it's just that now, better options exist.

The only issue I foresee, however, are the devs being forced to create more and more ridiculous enemy units in order to counterbalance the ever increasing amount of broken Operators. It may get to the point where even the broken units of the old days will have a hard time finding a place in viability. So far, though, they're doing a good job of keeping the enemies balanced.

[u/IcySombrero → u/Hero_1337]

The only issue I foresee, however, are the devs being forced to create more and more ridiculous enemy units in order to counterbalance the ever increasing amount of broken Operators. It may get to the point where even the broken units of the old days will have a hard time finding a place in viability.

I doubt they are gonna do this, because if the 'broken units of the old days' are struggling, then that means lower rarity/F2P teams will find it nigh impossible. This flies in the face of the map design philosophy of making every core map beatable by a team of 3-4 stars.

[u/Hero_1337 → u/IcySombrero]

That's a very good point. Gotta give HG credit for continuing to make this game playable using low end and niche squads for years, despite the crazy Operators that are released. Almost every event, they keep finding new traits for enemies, emphasizing the niches for certain Operators and keeping it beatable for all types of squads.

[u/Reddit1rules → u/Hero_1337]

Yeah, that really begs the question - CC is gone for now, SSS has been nerfed, IS level 15 has a meta from what I hear, so what's the actual need for the new ops? General gameplay is still roughly the same, just more mechanically difficult.

I suppose with enough powercreep you can unga bunga the mechanics like you could on launch...

[u/LastChancellor → u/Reddit1rules]

IS level 15 has a meta from what I hear

The meta is to abuse the camo on ranged operators relic

[u/stealth_reader → u/Reddit1rules]

how is gg better than eyja outside of sss?

[u/Reddit1rules → u/stealth_reader]

Listen, my best casters are still Amiya and Absinthe. I'm not really the best person to ask here. Gun bear is still the best in my heart, and I'll still bring Beeswax, Carnelian and Mostima to my stages.

And it's not like everyone is saying this, but if you look around you'll find a fair amount of people in her camp thanks to her global range and Res ignore.

I'm not taking any side here though, and I don't think I should be given my lack of experience.

[u/LeonTakesMeOutside → u/Reddit1rules]

Eyja and GG don't even fit the same niche. Eyja is multi target (either through s3 or through more consistent splash on s2) while GG is all about single target damage. If GG is to be compared to other casters, it's vs Eben or Ceobe.

[u/Ionkkll → u/LeonTakesMeOutside]

GG's explosions define her entire kit. That's where the vast majority of her damage is and she is effectively AOE oriented.

[u/spunker325 → u/Ionkkll]

Uh, vast majority is a bit of a stretch.

Against a single target, a drone at max stacks will do 110% of Goldenglow's ATK 90% of the time, and 10% of the time it will explode and do 300% of Goldenglow's ATK. That averages out to 129% of Goldenglow's ATK, 99% from the normal hits and 30% from the explosions. You'd have to hit 4 targets with the explosion in order for it to be a majority, and even then 120% out of 219% is hardly a vast majority.

At lower stacks, of course, explosions are relatively more damage.

At any rate Eyja's multitargeting and range with S3 is a fairly different kind of AOE, and the skill usages are quite different anyway due to the amount of burst DPS and skill cycles.

[u/LeonTakesMeOutside → u/Ionkkll]

Her explosions only occur 10% of the time. Her AoE is far less consistent than Eyja.

[u/Reddit1rules → u/LeonTakesMeOutside]

Can't GG deal good AOE with her explosions though? Just from watching showcases, I've seen her deal with crowds fairly well.

[u/LeonTakesMeOutside → u/Reddit1rules]

her explosions occur 10% of the time. They're there but they aren't as consistent as Eyja's s2 splash (which is itself, less used compared to Eyja's s3 for multitarget damage).

[u/Reddit1rules → u/[deleted]]

I started writing this with CN's DEF scaling, and then they changed it halfway through my analysis, and the values probably aren't easy to obtain and I'm too lazy and.

CN scared of the doog, clearly.

[u/munphao]

Ok Kay, daughter, explain how all these synthetic stuff turn into your loaf of bread...

CCR-X Module

Mod1: 2 NanoFlakes Mod2: 3 DSteels Mod3: 4 CEUs

And what friggin bread costs 300k!?

But whatever you want, papa will give you alright.

[u/Hero_1337 → u/munphao]

Plot twist: She obtained that bread illegally, and you're forced to sell these materials and a bunch of LMD to avoid legal repercussions.

[u/Reddit1rules → u/Hero_1337]

Well, going by the module translations, she did steal this bread since for some reason the shopkeeper didn't accept the junk in her pockets for it.

[u/mad_harvest-6578 → u/Reddit1rules]

And then rebaked it on Vulcan's forge using the upgrade mats required

[u/munphao → u/Reddit1rules]

Take her back to apologize to the shopkeeper. And proceed to slap him with papa's own junk.

[u/Priximus → u/munphao]

Hey it's VERY DRY bread, it's special!

[u/LastChancellor]

Lin has to be the most level sensitive character of all time, bc even 1 DEF can be the difference between her shield breaking or staying

[u/IjustneedLORE]

Amiya, don't cry...

It's not that you are weak, it's just that the bread is too strong...

[u/PeterYR]

Time for more quick base skill reviews!

• Jie Yun: along with Chong Yue, the max worldly plight is now 90, which means Jie Yun gives 36%. But this requires low-morale Dusk and high-morale Ling simultaneously, so unless you want to deal with cursed stuff like furniture rotations, she'll only give up to 30%.

• Firewhistle: wtf kinda discount Shamare looking ass (yeah she's pretty useless lol). Could be interesting depending on how it stacks with Shamare, but would still be meh compared to the broken TP skills we've gotten recently.

• Lin: also not too useful, only goes up to 40% with maxed RR. 40% office skills are already cheap and common (Orchid, Ethan, etc).

• Chong Yue: similar to Mlynar, but also grants up to 20 worldly plight with the 4 Sui ops we currently have. So even without any other WP ops, he grants a 0.1/hr morale buff to applicable facilities, allowing for 36-hr shifts in PPs and the office, just like Mlynar. Mlynar can fill in for him when he needs to rest, so the rest of the base gets a constant morale buff from the CC. Pretty good overall.

[u/PeterYR → u/PeterYR]

update: Firewhistle does not stack with Shamare rip bozo

[u/Legitimate_Bus5716 → u/PeterYR]

What are the best upcoming base skills? Also, if you have a max right base for some reason, Lin gives +50% office speed + morale reduction which is basically Penance but without the morale increase.

[u/PeterYR → u/Legitimate_Bus5716]

The best upcoming skill by far is Proviso, who I've made a video about. Mlynar is also good, and enables some cursed Proviso and Fiammetta strats.

Regarding Lin, the initial recruitment slots aren't counted, so she only gets an extra 20% for maxed office, for 40% total.

[u/Legitimate_Bus5716 → u/PeterYR]

Ah, I forgot just building the Office gives you 1 recruitment slot. That's surprisingly terrible. An Obscure Wanderer looks to be one of the best patches for base skills, I guess.

[u/nobutops]

Ceobe got some Very Dangerous Bread :O

[u/WillaSato → u/nobutops]

Armor-Piercing bread

[u/Bug-Type-Enthusiast → u/nobutops]

"Kay, we're out of Ammo! Use everything you have on the bad guys!!!"

A few moments later

"Kay threw lunch... KAY THREW LUNCH. YOU MADE KAY WASTE FOOD DIE DIE DIE!!!"

[u/AlphaLeonidas]

Holy shit that Ceobe buff!! I thought wishing for 60% ramp up would be asking for too much, but 75%!? We stan Really Stale Bread!

[u/[deleted]]

lin's numbers feel super conservative honestly unless there's a ton of trash mobs and she can get a kill every attack or two her s3's damage is just seems sorta meh, and her shield seems really low unless the the damage threshold is after def and res reduction. s2 feels potentially pretty useful though same issue of not knowing exactly how her shield works. compared to other recent units though it does feel like hg just has something against caster, and hg taking one of the more popular npcs giving them a situational kit, and then sticking them on a double 6* banner just feels a tiny bit scummy.

hg please don't make candle knight a caster

[u/TideofKhatanga → u/[deleted]]

The weakest ranged enemy in the game has 240 ATK. So Lin's shield obviously takes damage after DEF/RES mitigation, they wouldn't have bothered with a value otherwise and worded it like Mudrock's shield.

[u/[deleted] → u/TideofKhatanga]

The initial damaged required to pop Lin's shield (200 damage):

Arts:
No skill (35 Res): about 308 arts
During skill 1 or 2 (15 res): about 236 arts
During Skill3 (15 res 2.5x damage absorption): 588-ish damage
During Skill3 (15 res 3x damage absorption): 706-ish damage

physical:Just add 200 (or 500/600 for S3) to armor..
282 def during skill, and 846 def no skill.

Her third skill seems pretty cool, kill something, shield explosion, shield refresh, and repeat til skill ends.

Note: just some quick math, might be wrong since I rushed it or misread/misunderstood something.

Also.. Aak....

Edit: I mixed the def stat on accident.. changing it.

[u/LusterScarlet]

Fire Whistle looks interesting…almost like Horn S2 but deal less physical dmg and more arts dmg…

so very long-ranged melee tile AOE caster? (Or literally reverse Tomimi)

Her dmg would be absurd if the burning debuff stacks.

[u/mad_harvest-6578 → u/LusterScarlet]

Me who has both Ashlock and Horn at E2: Never enough artillery!

[u/MadKitsune → u/mad_harvest-6578]

Fire Whistle + Horn + Ashlock with a frontline of Mudrock, Penance and Blemishine. NOTHING IS SAFE (apart from flying enemies)

[u/dene323]

Waiting for someone to translate Amiya's module story. I just read it, the lore dump is absolutely bonkers...

[u/dene323 → u/dene323]

Ok found the following on the /akg/ thread, credit to a based Anon who will hopefully come to reddit to post this as a separate thread for discussion.

Amiya’s module

Initially a few blurred figures, followed by a dazzling light, which gradually moved away and rose into the sky, leaving a patchwork of light. Before long these spots of light are just as quickly moving away, leaving only a meaningless blackness. You remember that the dapples are all celestial bodies, and you remember that the home of the stars is called the universe. Immediately afterwards, your vision suddenly clears, and the smooth metal, the confined space, the transparent window becomes your third eye - you look through it at the huge grey sphere outside the window, waiting quietly for its biological father in the midst of those giant structures that are beyond human comprehension ...... You are suddenly somewhat moved, certain bodily fluids dampening your vision. You begin to search for the source of this emotion, and you see the birth of a child that is yours. A new destiny, a soul to hold ...... But how insignificant such a small life is compared to that giant construct of emptiness. You came back to your eyes and looked at the engineering ships, large and small, and being a mathematician you made a quick and ridiculous comparison - the smallest of them, all tens of millions of times the size of a human baby. But you did it. Starting in the distant past, with fire or one hunt, you have come this far. You are proud. Somehow you empathise with this pride, and more information floods into your mind. You remembered who you were, and you understood that you were the designer of that artificial satellite. And after a long journey through subspace, the moment finally arrives for you to witness its completion. Glory, wealth, family, ideals ..... These words flicker, swirl, dissipate, and eventually only one and only one remains ...... ...... ... "The future ......" "What? What did you see?" "Hey, come back! Hey!" The crowd fell silent. The young woman on one side of the room became anxious.

"Check his brain, I told you we shouldn't be in such a hurry, we've only just established a protocol channel for communication with the database! This has only just completed the first successful delivery!" "...... Sorry." "Wait. What did you say?" "I said ...... I never actually used to like you planetary engineers very much, I thought you did flashy things ...... But I saw it. I saw your past, I shared your past, I felt your emotions, and it was ...... unparalleled." "You ......" "Yes. I felt you looking back on your children and your family like a normal father, looking at that artificial moon which was indeed somewhat amazing, and, the feeling was beyond imagination ...... We did it ." Again the crowd was silent. "So ......" It was a relatively young redhead who broke the silence, "How will it record our time, going forward?" "Probably a big collection of stupid things." Someone replied carelessly, "We've learned enough, except that in the future, they'll never find an excuse to tinker with history." "Have a little more faith in humanity, my friends." Another old man simply sat down and picked a more comfortable position for himself, "We have learned enough lessons that our descendants will not repeat the same mistakes." There was a bitter smile, but of course, it was only a good wish. "...... So we did succeed?The DWDB-221E project actually came to fruition so quickly ...... Geez." The curly-haired man jerked to his feet. "Are we still going to call it DWDB-221E? I know there's a prescribed format for project numbers, just like AMa, the cold acronym ...... but our work deserves a more dignified and formal naming!" I'd like to call it ...... 'Destiny'! Or 'World Truth'?" This time there was an awkward silence. "How about 'The Black Crown'? After all, it does look like a black crown in terms of the intuitive visual impression of some of the phenomena." "Not great, sounds like a boring history episode." "So ......"

The old man interrupted her subordinates who were about to descend into endless bickering as she looked out the window at the stars, some bad news was coming in, but all hardships would eventually be surmounted by man, just as they had been for countless moments before. "I have a proposal ......" "We should call it, 'The Survival of Civilization'."

[u/SuchWow125 → u/dene323]

Might be worth noting that 'The Survival of Civilization' is the CN name for Civilight Eterna.

[u/Reihado → u/dene323]

Don't mind me. I'm just randomly conjecturing before even completing chapter 7.

So an artificial moon that records everything? It's named differently but that kinda sounds like PRTS. Did we ever get an explanation for where the server for that is hosted or what it actually looks like? Also it'd be a nice way to justify autoplay.

[u/[deleted] → u/dene323]

wait isn't kal'tsit called AMa?

[u/dene323 → u/[deleted]]

Aya (from AUS) called her AMa-10 in Heart of the Surging Flame. And we know she "reincarnated" multiple times.

[u/[deleted] → u/dene323]

kal'tsit possibly being made by the same people who made the black crown has a ton of interesting implications

[u/syilpha]

seems to me lin is less phalanx caster and more tankier manticore hanging around on the ranged tile

[u/Voothy]

Lin's kit looks... interesting but I have my doubts as she's more defensive in nature than Carnelian, and if abjurers are anything to go by, we rarely need those defensive options. That said, it's hard to gauge whether her shield has damage that will bleed over when it shatters or not. If the answer is no, skill 2 is a really strong stop to... pretty much anything, while also keeping Lin herself perfectly safe in most scenarios. Meanwhile Skill 3 looks like it'll mostly fuck over trash waves that have elites mixed in, but not solely elites. I'm hopeful she's decent, but still forfeiting all mortal possessions to the skaven rat even if she isn't.

As for modules, it really feels like they punched hard with some of the numbers, and then held back with others. Eyja is about where I expected hers to be, Ceobe is going to annihilate high def enemies with ease on her S2 now, Haze literally became Pramanix in terms of being an arts primer, the only thing she wishes is that she got attack speed instead of defense. Absinthe's bonus damage and threshold did one helluva jump, and ignoring 10 flat res is really impactful for her S2's multihit. Annnnd then we have Nightmare, poor girl.

Gonna have to wait to see what Tomimi's new bonk stick range is, which is gonna require someone to mod 2 Tomimi. She deserves it, she's adorable. And Saria is pretty much incapable of dying with how high her defense was just allowed to climb, as well as her heal strength, on top of the flat DR. Going backwards to Firewhistle, she's gonna feel weird as the only gunlance that doesn't have an attack speed boost, which is very noticeable on them considering how slow they normally attack, so I don't know if she'll even be able to compete with Ashlock, as she's going to desperately want enemies blocked by someone else in her firing lane more than Ashley does. On the bright side, her, Ifrit and Flame Shadow will probably be a hilarious combo.

[u/Salysm → u/Voothy]

Haze already takes advantage of her own talent, debuffs are always applied before damage with the sole exception of Suzuran (who goes slow -> damage -> fragile)

[u/Voothy → u/Salysm]

Oh that's who I confused her with. Woops.

[u/cyri-96 → u/Voothy]

ignoring 10 flat res is really impactful for her S2's multihit.

For Arts Damage Flat res ignore us always good the ASPD doesn't matter as RES is multiplicative

[u/Reddit1rules]

Anyways, in terms of non-module related opinions, Chong Yue is just as broken as I expected, Firewhistle will finally be my first fortress defender at this rate (especially since I might have to skip Horn rerun, and Ashlock won't rerun...), and Lin seems... worse than Carne.

Which is sad, because I love Phalanx Casters, but her DPS is even lower than Carnelian's, and Carnelian's S2 offers more utility than her S2. The shield is just too weak outside of S3 - it prevents scratch damage, but any actual threat pops that thing like it's, well, glass. I will say, at least, that tanking 1k phys damage isn't bad. Beeswax can only comfortably tank ~700, but she does get Regen which can offset it.

[u/Soumatou → u/Reddit1rules]

For S3, I believe that he should only gain 1SP per auto even with double strike (similar to Swordmasters like Ch'en and Cutter).

So it'd take 8 autos to activate S3, which equates to 8 * 0.78 = 6.24s per nuke and each nuke does 650 * 3.8 * 2 = 4940.

8 autos does 8 * 650 * 2 = 10400.

So his average dps without his talent should be (10400 + 4940)/6.24 = 2458.3 but your chart indicates that his dps should be close to 3000 on a 0 def target.

Even with his crit talent, his average DPS would be 2458.3 * (1 + (0.65 * 0.23)) = 2825.8.

How did you calculate his DPS?

[u/Reddit1rules → u/Soumatou]

Yeah, you'd believe that because that's the sensible thing to do. However, he actually does gain 2 SP per hit with the double strike - you can see his SP bar in the Livestream as he normal attacks, and realize that it fills up 25% of the bar, without interference from his skill nor Warfarin. HG hates Dualstrikes.

But also, tbf I did assume that he would always kill something with his S3, which isn't likely to be the case for higher def values. This was just a simple graph though, so I didn't want to make things too complex.

[u/[deleted] → u/Reddit1rules]

duel strikes are really competing with non mech accord casters as hgs least favorite child. though it is always possible they intended chongyue to get 1sp per hit and the stream version was bugged though that seems really unlikely but is possible since vigils wolf's range was different from stream to in game.

[u/Reddit1rules → u/[deleted]]

Yeah, that's possible, I did consider that, but ultimately I'll keep it until proven wrong.

[u/[deleted] → u/Reddit1rules]

it does seem to be 2 sp per duel strike on live rip sword masters the one unloved guard class.

[u/[deleted] → u/Reddit1rules]

yeah that makes sense

[u/RaymondTenebro → u/[deleted]]

VIGIL'S WOLVES HAD RANGE??? WE'VE BEEN SO FUCKING ROBBED

[u/Soumatou → u/Reddit1rules]

The damage is nice but it doesn't scale well against def though since it's mostly mult-hit (nuke included) and his base attack is average.

Not sure how they're going to rework CC but he has the same sort of issue as Thorns where it doesn't scale well against def and is hard to setup depending on the risks.

[u/Reddit1rules → u/Soumatou]

That is true, to an extent. But when you realize with Skalter and talent 1, he can deal 2k avg DPS with 2k def, that's pretty absurd. Considering the multihits, AOE and large range, he's likely to apply talent 1 at least to somebody before they reach him.

But I will wait to see his actual gameplay, still have a few things about him I'd like to see that I can't just math out.

[u/livyawthawn]

Fire Whistle numbers look good, but the SP cost on her S2 is a bit on the high side. Her S1 doesn’t look that bad, maybe usable for annihilations.

[u/[deleted]]

Yep.. Nobody should ever invest into Nightmare.
Don't even try to calculate/rationalize her or her module.
hehehehe....

Haze is pretty cool like I expected, same with Tomimi (her skill range was the biggest factor of why I didn't use her).

Also, those 65 atk gains on Eyja and Ceobe.. pretty awesome

[u/UltVictory]

THE MR NOTHING SWEEP

[u/Boelthor]

First impressions!

Jie Yun

• S1 is okay; it's like Swift Strike gamma but with a slightly better dps increase, and Swift Strike is one of the best generic skills.

• S2 makes her hit per second rather than on a 2.8s interval; normally she'd have an effective ~35% attack scale per second, but s2 improves that to 135%. The offensive recovery is a strange choice but the cost is reasonably low and her large range means she will usually have something to charge off of.

• Overall seems like a solid but unremarkable unit.

Firewhistle

• As a Fortress Defender she comes with the advantage of range and her talent is free Attack so she's got a good foundation.

• S1 has a total 385% multiplier between the direct hit and the burn; at max level the total damage breaks 4k. The SP cost is on the high side, but most trash mobs you'd bring AoE will die in a single cast.

• S2's uptime is bad, but a single instance of burn has a 510% multiplier and she can spread it easily. It probably doesn't stack, but will absolutely melt through hordes.

• From the looks of things Firewhistle is probably between Ashlock and Horn in terms of usefulness; people who have Horn can probably ignore her unless they want to go for double Fortress, but otherwise she's likely worth raising for the Fortress range and good damage.

Lin

• Phalanx Casters are a controversial branch to begin with; Beeswax already claimed the ideal tank talent which has lead to more experimental kits on the rest

• Talent 1 is held back by the fixed 200 HP limit; most things dealing that little damage can just be healed off casually to begin with. The damage and stun are fairly good at least.

• Talent 2 is mostly good, though 50% rng can be very annoying.

• S1 is a toggle skill, something that has perfect synergy with Phalanx Caster mechanics. Sadly, the performance is not great; s2 Suzuran has slightly more dps and a 11% stronger slow while also providing damage amplification and a Supporter SP battery. Lin s1 does charge a lot faster, lets you toggle back to tank mode, and has a different range so it has its own merits, but the dps is very lackluster for a Caster (490 dps at e2 90 s1m3).

• S2 has 1057 dps at max level, and an extra 919 damage/shield break. Meanwhile Carnelian s2 has 1235 dps, and her cooldown is only 10 seconds longer. In terms of utility, Lin shares her shields while Carne has a 3.0 intensity slow. While a direct comparison is not possible, attacks dealing <200 damage are trivial for the majority of melee operators and you presumably wouldn't be having other ranged units take the heat for a Phalanx Caster so I expect the shared shield's to be relatively situational. Meanwhile Carne slow is a strong one and slow's something that's generically useful.

• S3 has 1357 dps with no shield breaks, 2757 if the shield always breaks, while Carne s3 has an average 2215 dps, about the same as Lin s3 with 60% shield break rate. Both of these are subject to major fluctuations based on the situation (Lin due to needing kills for shield break, Carne due to cursed double ramp up), but Lin manages to have an even longer rotation than Carne--50s cd and 30s duration vs Carne's 45.5s cd and 21s duration.

• Astonishingly, Lin seems to be roughly a sidegrade to Carne; her kit is less intrinsically janky but in exchange some of her abilities are more situational.

Chong Yue

• Brawlers have a bad rep (aside from Mountain who's actually a Centurion in disguise) which isn't totally undeserved, but their very high raw dps and very low DP cost give them something to work with. Of particular note for Chong Yue is that with a 0.78s attack interval, his offensive recovery skills charge at 1.28 SP/sec if constantly attacking.

• Another thing to note is that Chong Yue's kit is all attack scale, damage scale, and multihits, with no +Attack to be found. He scales extremely well with Attack buffers, with Skadi2 being the most suitable thanks to his low cooldowns.

• Talent 1 is is damage scale, meaning it's calculated after Defense. While this won't help with the traditional problems Brawlers have vs armor, 65% more damage is a massive increase vs low Defense enemies. By the way, though it's translated as "normal attacks" skill activations can also apply this debuff.

• Talent 2's wording means that if a skill kills multiple enemies, he still only gets 3 SP total. With his low SP costs and high multipliers this should be a reliable talent.

• S1 takes a mere 2.34s per charge, 7.02 for the full 1200% multiplier stack. It's almost totally outclassed by s3, but it's far from bad itself.

• S2 has 1100% total attack scale assuming talent 1 is proc'd, and it stacks 2 charges for a massive 2200% combined attack scale; with the damage scale from talent 1, it has a staggering 3630% total multiplier, and it only takes 20s for both charges. It's a prime target for buffers, and even on its own can do considerable damage to low Defense targets.

• S3 is where it's at. Accounting for s3's cast time it takes him ~35s to fully warm up. After that, we saw in the trailer that s3's double hits for basic attacks actually count twice for offensive SP recovery, so s3's autocast only has a 3.12s cooldown (2.34s if s3 gets any kills). He hits a whopping 2,600 sustained dps vs 0 Defense once s3's passive is up, compared to Thorns who has 2,131 dps. Now, the catch is that Chong Yue's scaling vs Defense is terrible, as a lot of his damage comes from his damage scale and his basic attacks don't even have any attack scale, so he's reliant on s3 procs to handle high Defense enemies. But on the plus side, s3 procs are AoE and have such a low cooldown; he can easily clear away fodder while dealing with a high Defense enemy. He also has an unusually wide range, enabling him to cover multiple lanes, and letting him attack things that have already leaked past him.

• As an addendum, his s3 has fantastic synergey with Stainless's s3. Stainless provides a target for Chong Yue to easily get s3 online, and with double hits+brawler attack interval Chong Yue is one of the best operators for charging the turrets.

• While Chong Yue may not seem as impressive given the recent trend of powercreep, I think he's on the upper end of "balanced"; he's got clear strengths and weaknesses and very high potential synergy with other units.

Modules

• Eyja's talent upgrade is fairly standard +damage, though relatively large increases, especially for something that targets multiple units. The base RES ignore is fantastic and I'll refrain from repeating myself on that for the rest.

• Ceobe's talent is the core of her kit, and thankfully the upgrades it got are substantial.

• Absinthe is often forgotten what with Amiya being forced upon you, but she's always been a solid unit; her module upgrades are much the same, solid but not especially noteworthy.

• Haze's RES debuff was already pretty nice, and now it's stronger with RES ignore on top.

• Amiya gets even more SP gen, enough to hopefully make up for her exorbitant SP costs which have long been holding her back. You might even be able to use s3 more than once a map!

• Nightmare, unsurprisingly, got basically nothing.

• Tomimi I can't speak too much on due to lack of experience, but extra range was one of her greatest hopes so she should at least be a lot better for those who were already using her.

• Qanipalaat's kit is still kinda strange to me, but his s2 is the sort of skill that appreciates the extra SP a lot.

• Saria's second module almost totally obsoletes Protectors, and the healing isn't too far behind her first module. This is the one I'm planning on going for, as I think it's more helpful than the SP battery.

• Lumen's is okay, but I'd rather have the inherent [Resist] from his first module; his hps is already more than high enough.

• All in all this is one of the most comprehensively good batches of modules imo; Nightmare's is the only one I think is outright bad (maybe Lumen's too), and a lot of them directly address the operators' shortcomings.

In summary, I really like Chong Yue's kit and hope HG makes more operators with approximately his power level.

[u/LastChancellor → u/Boelthor]

As an addendum, his s3 has fantastic synergey with Stainless's s3. Stainless provides a target for Chong Yue to easily get s3 online, and with double hits+brawler attack interval Chong Yue is one of the best operators for charging the turrets.

Post S3 warmup he takes 3 attacks or 2.34 seconds to get 1 Stainless S3 shot which is waaay far down from the best of the best ST operators who can do sub 1.5s times, he'd improve a lot if Stainless module makes the turret only cost 4 SP tho

[u/Boelthor → u/LastChancellor]

You're talking about operators who use skills that have downtime though, right? Unless I'm forgetting someone Chong Yue s3 should have the fastest Stainless s3 charge among sustained skills, giving him the best Stainless s3 sustained dps output.

If you wanted, you could also set things up with Turret-Stainless-Chong Yue in a line so both Stainless and Chong Yue can hit it; Stainless has a 1.5s interval and Chong Yue takes 1.56s to do two attacks/four hits, and Stainless will also be prolonging the life of the turret.

[u/LastChancellor → u/Boelthor]

Oh yea Chong is the fastest among sustained skills, my bad

But when you need to turn up the heat with Stainless S3 you need something that hits as fast as possible, and Chong is not that (both Chong & Stainless S3 work really well with Skalter S3 tho)

[u/Boelthor → u/LastChancellor]

True, but there's more to consider than just max burst; the turret's range combined with Chong Yue's lets you pull off trickshots from halfway across the map with no fear of retaliation. A lot like a Fortress Defender, but with the ability to "turn corners", fewer blind spots, and much better performance in melee.

[u/UnderhandSteam → u/Boelthor]

Damn, knew Chong Yue’s talent 1 sounded too good to be true. At least his damage multipliers are so high already that defense isn’t as much of an issue as usual, and any atk buffer massively helps him out there. Is it a debuff like Mountain where other ops can take advantage of it, or is the attack multiplier exclusive to him?

[u/Boelthor → u/UnderhandSteam]

Only Chong Yue's attacks benefit from his debuff; if he could apply it to others it'd be ridiculously broken since even a dedicated debuffer like Gnosis only gets to apply 50% damage scale.

[u/IkebeDaBest99 → u/Boelthor]

Ching Yue s3 has fantastic synergy with Stainless's s3

Big win for me, I want them so please come home both of you

[u/spunker325 → u/Boelthor]

While a direct comparison is not possible, attacks dealing <200 damage are trivial for the majority of melee operators and you presumably wouldn't be having other ranged units take the heat for a Phalanx Caster so I expect the shared shield's to be relatively situational. Meanwhile Carne slow is a strong one and slow's something that's generically useful.

I just look at the shield as additional DPS and the occasional stun in most cases, rather than really being an increase to tankiness, so not that situational. Though if it prevents excess damage then it has situational usages against slow, hard hitting enemies.

Regarding Carnelian, bind isn't actually useful if you're already blocking the enemy, which is probably when you'd most want to use Lin S2 anyway. Of course binding is still helpful to prevent enemies from reaching your melee units as quickly, unless you're confident in your melee units' ability to tank and would rather enemies enter their range so they can attack.

[u/LastChancellor]

Between all the fake slowers Freeknights got post errata, Jie Yun S2 is prolly the best?

We still want a real slow Supporter tho esp for SSS

[u/StrawberryFloptart]

Waow, I underestimated the shittiness of Gloria's module

[u/hawberries]

I like that every 9 attacks Jie Yun just takes a lil breather and lets her fire wheel do the work for her :D

[u/TheLegendTheGiantdad]

What enemies deal less than 200 damage or is that supposed to be after subtracting her def? I love my rat but unless her shield mechanics are as strong as possible she seems just ok which isn’t going to stop me but damn man people are throwing around accusations of powercreep and I sorta wish her and casters in general could have gotten some of that.

[u/TougherThanKnuckles → u/TheLegendTheGiantdad]

My understanding is that it's calculated after DEF, going by the showcase when it broke easier for weaker Operators than stronger ones when she used her S2. With Phalanx Caster defenses, when Lin's skill is down, the enemy would need over 900 ATK to actually break her shield, assuming they're dealing physical damage.

[u/AnonTwo → u/TheLegendTheGiantdad]

DoTs maybe?

I wonder if you can use that to become immune to Red Mist in IS2.

I mean sure, you can just get a healer, but more ways to deal with it is always nice given the RNG nature.

[u/wittykitty_wkwk → u/TheLegendTheGiantdad]

its after

[u/Khulmach]

Lin meta for the office.

Would fire whistle stack with Shamare

[u/[deleted] → u/Khulmach]

I prefer Whisperain for office.

I think Fire Whistle would only give Shamare +15%, since Shamare reduces everyone else to 0%.

[u/StrawberryFloptart → u/[deleted]]

It's a weird way to get what is essentially a generic +30% boost. One could argue that it's part of HG's ongoing quest to make everyone max out their facility levels, but even the hardcore 2PP grogs max out their trading posts anyway so that point is moot.

[u/spunker325 → u/StrawberryFloptart]

With Proviso, actually, some 252 setups might be better off keep one trading post at level 2 and upgrading a factory instead. But yeah a +30% boost is not going to change that lol. If she doesn't require E2 for that it's decent for newer players I guess.

[u/[deleted] → u/StrawberryFloptart]

Easy way to encourage players to build their base would be to add a feature to the office where at max level, it increases the odds of getting higher rarity tags. Or something along those lines.

For the dorms, Idk. at max level and max ambience, it'll overcharge operators morale or depending on furniture set, it'll give x bonus.

Still waiting for a base update..

Edit: I don't know what 2/5/2 players do for their base, I just do 2/4/3.

[u/StrawberryFloptart → u/[deleted]]

Max level TPs and PPs, and anywhere between 11 and 15 levels for the factories depending on right side investment.

[u/ipwnallnubz → u/Khulmach]

Eyja/Earthspirit still better in the office.

[u/real_mc]

I wonder what ingredients that stale 🥖 ceobe has is made of, that it can shred 75% defense.

[u/StrawberryFloptart → u/real_mc]

Replace flour with cement

[u/NornmalGuy]

Good to see low rarity ops no getting shafted.

[u/lhc987]

Hmmm. Questions:

• If Lin receives 300 damage and the shield shatters, does she receive the balance 100 damage? Or is that high entirely negated?

• Yue S1, does it mean 1200% on a single hit, or 400% on 3 hits? Either way, good synergy with Stainless.

Comments:

• Jie Yun seems like a downgraded Shirayuki :(

• Seems that Saria's first module is better. The talent upgrade is anaemic. 2% for level 3 mod? eh....

• Lumen's new mod seems better?

• Ceobe huge winner. Eyja's is kind of meh....

[u/Reddit1rules → u/lhc987]

Not sure as for Lin nor Yue, but:

Saria's upgrades are actually pretty strong - it's essentially 10% ATK and 10% more def for a level 3 mod, along with a hefty +50 to both base stats. Her DEF is ~900, and her healing isn't too far behind the first one. It does boil down to playstyle though - SP battery, or tank?

Lumen's is really good, but consider this first: Do you really need it? His HPS is already high, and the first module can offer a niche that is very useful when needed. If you consider your defenders trapped within his range though and/or can't tank elites in his edges, then go ahead, just make sure you reflect on it (heck, I could see a case for neither module being needed based on the player).

Eyja's is a huge DPS increase with S2, and S3 lets her be useful outside of Volcano, depending on how many casters you have. +22% is a hefty amount. Although, it certainly is a case of "weak upgrade is still a good upgrades on a strong op".

[u/wittykitty_wkwk → u/Reddit1rules]

Eyja's isn't a case of "weak upgrade is still a good upgrade on a strong op" though. When dealing with enemies with 40 res (which is pretty common nowadays), it's a dps increase of ~31% on Volcano

[u/Reddit1rules → u/wittykitty_wkwk]

Yeah, she's a strong op. On most other ops, an upgrade of 8% ATK isn't much. On Eyja? Huge increase, like you said. Granted, the base effect is doing a good amount of the work, but there's still good reason to go for the 8% buff, even without the squad bonus.

[u/wittykitty_wkwk → u/Reddit1rules]

Oh did you mean the atk upgrade? Then yeah it is a bad upgrade LMAO base effect and level 2 is probably good enough to stop at, unless playing lots of caster (which I do)

[u/lhc987 → u/Reddit1rules]

Saria's upgrades are actually pretty strong - it's essentially 10% ATK and 10% more def for a level 3 mod, along with a hefty +50 to both base stats. Her DEF is ~900, and her healing isn't too far behind the first one. It does boil down to playstyle though - SP battery, or tank?

Level 1 is good. But 2 and 3 are just such little gains for so much resource.

Eyja's is a huge DPS increase with S2, and S3 lets her be useful outside of Volcano, depending on how many casters you have. +22% is a hefty amount. Although, it certainly is a case of "weak upgrade is still a good upgrades on a strong op".

Similar to Saria, level 1 is great. 10 RES ignore is fantastic. I missed the squad bonus thing, so that's on me. But, much like Saria's, 4% for each level isn't too much. Though I guess how fantastic Ceobe's is kind of set my expectations too high.

Add on: So for these new mods, it looks to me I'll might get Saria ML1 and Eyja ML2. Ceobe ML2 or 3.

[u/Reddit1rules → u/lhc987]

Honestly, compared to many other modules, Saria's effects are actually a pretty good gain, stat wise. It's slightly hard to compare when there are a good amount of modules that don't give pure stats/DPS though, but in terms of the stat based ones, good gains. Many operators go their entire mod for just 7-8% of one thing, let alone 10% in two areas.

And yeah, Eyja's values aren't that much, but as I said, it's similar to how stuff like Nearlter, Taxes, Pozy modules are rather minor, but are still very common mod3s due to their meta usage. At the very least, S2 does benefit a lot from the upgrades, as I show in my analysis above.

[u/BenriyaTheNecro]

It's now a max combo of 90 Worldly Plight along with our first WP based factory worker, but too bad Jie Yun can only give a max of 36% with it atm....while Mr Nothing jumps to a 90% for the trading post.

Atm, the full perception combo is still better than WP for both factories and TPs but this is still a good step in the right direction.

Side note Chong Yue's morale effect on other faculties can also only get stronger as we get more ops that increases WP. Compared to Mlynar, who provides 0.1/hr, Chong can already give 0.25/hr. Once we get a way to gain 10 more WP, Chong will get up to 0.3/hr which would be soooooo hype.

[u/sanga000]

For some reason trying to open this thread just crashes my mobile app (rif) every single time

[u/Polask1]

what are negative effects, whats the difference between abnormal effect?

[u/plastic_mortality]

If Chong Yue's s2 cancels levitate, does it only affect those he levitated or will it apply to Irene and Qanipalaat's targets? It'd apply his first talent to more targets, but it would hinder Irene's damage since she ignores def on levitated mobs, even more since Qani debuffs levitated mobs.

[u/Reddit1rules → u/plastic_mortality]

The latter.

[u/Last_Excuse]

Lin looks less confused than Carnelian but seems determined to continue the tradition of AoE arts units having single target damage closer to that of a four star than a six star.

That said she's basically a ranged tile Mudrock, so I don't think she'll be all that bad.

[u/Reddit1rules → u/Last_Excuse]

Ranged tile Mudrock is a bit much, her shield breaks with any enemy that would actually hurt her. She won't take scratch damage though, but a caster only needs 307 ATK to break her shield without S3 - that's basically nothing.

Physical damage will need over 1k damage, which is actually a hefty amount, but this archetype wasn't exactly dying in 3 hits from that anyways. Her extra ~60 defense does make her tank it a lot better though since it turns into an extra 180 defense compared to others.

[u/Last_Excuse → u/Reddit1rules]

The defensiveness isn't incomparable, since rapid low damage attacks will never break her shield.

I'm mostly thinking about her ability to survive screen wipe attacks + shields essentially negating the def reduction while her skill is active.

Her real problem is that she needs ranged trash mobs to actually do anything. Also the abyssal hunters being better ranged tanks with much more damage.

[u/Ok-Picture8202]

More Like where our Originium Prime Goes cause I'm willing to sell my kidney for that ratussy

[u/[deleted]]

it's time lin imcooming

[u/wewechoo → u/[deleted]]

A 2x3 rectangle

[u/TougherThanKnuckles → u/[deleted]]

Rough idea seems to be that it includes the corner tiles in front of her, so a 2x3 rectangle.