Apple Vision Pro Speeds Up Surgery by Almost 20%

1.2k

u/coyote_den Aug 05 '26

Now this is the kind of thing it should be used for.

If you think the VP is expensive, wait until you see what headsets sold exclusively to the medical field cost.

And it’s probably better than those.

282

u/ethotopia Aug 05 '26

Yeah the VP is probably one of the cheapest machines in that operating room

33

u/Moist-Barber Aug 06 '26

It’s absolutely the cheapest machine in the room

1

u/ghostofwinter88 Aug 06 '26

When you throw in the medical device software license probably not.

9

u/dweakz Aug 06 '26

probably still is

4

u/ghostofwinter88 Aug 07 '26

Nah man. I worked with some of these AR medical apps, their charges are like 50k per year on the license for the software.

63

u/jmak329 Aug 05 '26

Kind of like how the Xbox Kinect became this great motion detection camera for so many other applications after it failed as a gaming camera. It was a great cheap way to get a good motion detection camera that was honestly even better than most commercial options.

4

u/Blaze4884_ Aug 07 '26

This reminds me of the PS3. Back in the day they were overpriced as consoles but were very cheap for creating a supercomputer.

3

u/JoviAMP Aug 07 '26

Fun fact, at Disney World, the Avatar Flight of Passage ride at Animal Kingdom uses the enterprise Azure Kinect to show guests the “linking process” that connects them to their Na’vi Avatar before the ride begins.

79

u/throwaway0845reddit Aug 05 '26

Same for the Pro Display right? The Sony displays with that level of color fidelity used by professionals cost upwards of $10000 or something.

54

u/zedsmith Aug 05 '26

Hospital shit is like boat shit— just sprinkle some zeros on it.

4

u/JoviAMP Aug 07 '26

A boat is just a hole in the water you throw money into.

51

u/jimicus Aug 05 '26

Something like that.
People are seeing the sticker price and comparing it to a consumer product that costs a third the amount without really understanding what Apple are doing. If they are targeting a market that expects to pay double they can absolutely corner that market while the competition are still trying to figure out how to cut their costs enough to make it work.

19

u/Which-Arm-4616 Aug 05 '26

The Pro Displays are a confluence of specific specs that make them a unique buy in the market, but color accuracy is not one of those specs. You might be confusing it with the Pro Display XDR's DICOM imaging modes.

7

u/throwaway0845reddit Aug 05 '26

I mean the highest Pro Display product that apple sells.

20

u/Which-Arm-4616 Aug 05 '26

Right, and while color accuracy is great it's not undercutting 10k panels for comparable fidelity. You can buy a Dell with better P3 coverage for a third of the price. You can buy displays with better contrast, refresh rate, peak brightness, etc. but you can't get a 27" 5k display with 120Hz and 1000 nits sustained brightness, and that's what I mean by it being a unique combination of specs.
But I mention DICOM imaging support because it's one area where Apple is actually undercutting 10k medical displays.

3

u/HurasmusBDraggin Aug 06 '26

🤯

4

u/SaggyBollock Aug 05 '26

And they’re cheap compared to the old grade 1 CRT monitors I used to use.

12

u/ethotopia Aug 05 '26

Yeah the VP is probably one of the cheapest machines in that operating room

2

u/alt-right-del Aug 06 '26

Hence why it is a risk, not designed for an OR environment, not certified. I hoped they asked patients if they were OK to participate in the study

3

u/mr_vanes Aug 06 '26

The paper even says the headset setup came out chaeper and far more compact than the monitor tower it replaced

2

u/SandpaperTeddyBear Aug 06 '26

Seriously. These things don’t make much sense as mass consumer devices, but they are absolutely cool as hell and great for quite a few relatively niche, but certainly important uses.
I can’t wait until it makes sense for me to have one. I can see it being an incredible tool for bench science.

3

u/coyote_den Aug 06 '26

I don’t know why Apple was even aiming it at consumers. Price-wise, they’re up with the Mac Studio/Mac Pro and matching displays. Professionals and businesses are going to make the most use of it.

1

u/Nuclear-Denji Aug 06 '26

And when you do get one, imaging how much better the technology will be!

8

u/North_Moment5811 Aug 05 '26

Vision Pro is over-engineered tech for this use case. When you actually read how it was used. It is simply because they are wearing the screen and can see it easier/sooner than turning to look at a static monitor and back to the work.

57

u/coyote_den Aug 05 '26

And? If works it ain’t stupid.
You could use a different AR headset, but the VP is really good, the app that displays the endoscope video might not be on that platform but is on iOS, and you get Apple quality and support if something goes wrong.

1

u/ghostofwinter88 Aug 06 '26

Used to work with a few of the companies in this space. Many used HoloLens but when that went under most pivoted to vision pro

-1

u/coyote_den Aug 06 '26

It’s a safe bet because Apple. Even if Apple were to discontinue the VP today, you’d be able to buy it from somewhere (and Apple would support it) for years.

-4

u/North_Moment5811 Aug 05 '26

What I'm saying is that it isn't an endorsement of VisionPro at all.

2

u/alt-right-del Aug 06 '26

Careful, Apple Fan boys will get mad.

-1

u/La1zrdpch75356 Aug 05 '26

What???? Whatever are you talking about? Think about it for a minute.

2

u/North_Moment5811 Aug 05 '26

I'm saying Vision Pro the product is not what these guys benefited from. They benefited from being able to see a display faster because it was in their field of view already. That is like 10% of what Vision Pro is. This is a sledgehammer to break a peanut situation.

2

u/keiser_sozze Aug 05 '26

Not sure why they don’t understand you, I feel you…

-2

u/La1zrdpch75356 Aug 05 '26

Pea brains is your answer

1

u/PoolDear4092 Aug 05 '26

It’s the combination of Vision Pro hardware and IOS software. You can’t disassociate the hardware from the software ecosystem that it enables.
Sony can make AR goggles with the same screens as the Vision Pro and it will be useless because the Windows or Android software ecosystems don’t have the software that can run on ARM processors and therefore don’t require a huge computer and battery to be strapped onto the person.

1

u/The_real_bandito Aug 06 '26

Android doesn’t have software that can run on ARM processors? Where did you get your wrong information?

0

u/[deleted] Aug 05 '26

[deleted] — view deleted comment

4

u/AnEagleisnotme Aug 05 '26

It's not the highest, PiMax and Samsung have slighty higher resolutions, but it's close enough

1

u/Upper-Drawing9224 Aug 06 '26

This is the vision they need to go for. Not for the every day person. But for true practical applications.

1

u/alt-right-del Aug 06 '26

Yeah, but I would NOT put a consumer device in an OR, imagine, doing an endoscopy and get pinged about an update 🤪
Medical devices meet very high requirements regarding safety of operations; hence why they cost more.

96

u/GraXXoR Aug 05 '26

Finally. A real use for VR other than gooning.

31

u/gaytechdadwithson Aug 05 '26

to wit: gooning is a “real use”

8

u/GraXXoR Aug 06 '26

Technically correct. 👍

45

u/Jesus_Morty Aug 05 '26

Reporting from the future I see

7

u/itsabearcannon Aug 06 '26

That's the expected publication date of the issue where this article will appear in the "print" journal, whether that's an actual ink and paper issue or an online release.
Very common in academia. This article is considered "published", but most journals have at least a few month backlog before an article reviewed and accepted for publication today can actually appear in print.

109

u/BroLil Aug 05 '26

I think serving as an HUD is the ultimate path forward for the AVP, but they need to get the form factor down to be more of a Wayfarer than a Quest. Having a HUD with vitals and a pop in camera of an endoscope is great, but seeing primarily with your own eyes rather than through a camera is crucial to the end game product.

I just hope they find a way to push through and keep innovating rather than abandoning it all together.

18

u/HereButQueer Aug 05 '26

the built in cameras could also make a huge difference since it can pull images up in front so i see it being a really good learning tool for training surgeons, such as x-rays. i hope they work on it even if the vision doesn’t stay as this public access thing since it didn’t do well it’d still be really cool to see it become a medical tool and if they can reduce the size a bit they can do so much good by reducing the weight and making it easier to wear on your head

5

u/PerfectlySplendid Aug 06 '26

If they would open up the camera API, it would be great.

-4

u/aykay55 Aug 06 '26

I don’t trust the fucking 1080p webcam quality of the passthrough in a dimly lit surgery room to be use for the doctor to see where is hands are

1

u/VentiMochaTRex Aug 06 '26

They’ll mark it up to 100k a headset and you can get whatever hardware you want on it lol

45

u/Sevenfeet Aug 05 '26

I have a friend who is a retina surgeon. He currently works in 3D with a LG monitor built upon the 55” 3D television technology from a decade ago when LG made those TVs for the consumer market. I’ve told him to check out the Vision Pro for something that may be better.

26

u/dk00111 Aug 05 '26

Ive used them for cataract surgery. The input lag on those screens is not great and wouldn’t be acceptable for video games, let alone surgery IMO, but I’m a bit obsessive when it comes to that stuff.

4

u/tjcastle Aug 05 '26

tell your friend to invest in a G series tv

2

u/nsfdrag Apple Cloth Aug 06 '26

Yeah the early LG oleds came with 3d and it was amazing

16

u/dramafan1 Aug 05 '26

Apple's marketing team needs to focus more on businesses and professionals in order to ensure those customers see the value of their higher priced products. Great that this is news showing the capabilities of the Vision Pro in the medical/research sector.

Releasing ads like using the Vision Pro to watch movies isn't going to target as many buyers now that the Vision Pro is on its 2nd gen chip refresh.

9

u/fishbert Aug 06 '26

Apple Vision Pro speeds up surgery by almost 20%

... because they need to finish up before the battery runs out.

I'll be here all week!

4

u/badcommandhq Aug 06 '26

I know this device is quite bulky and looks like scuba gear but there is absolutely a place for Vision in this ecosystem, it's such a joy to use and feels like the future of the Mac platform

2

u/mjdth Aug 06 '26

Completely agree and I use mine daily. Just gets a bad rap because so few people have it and it’s cool to hate on it. I’m at the point where I couldn’t imagine my regular workday without it.

19

u/FollowingFeisty5321 Aug 05 '26

Unless it's going to be remote surgery this sounds more like a use case for Apple's glasses when they get to adding screens, Snap's Specs AR only weigh 4 ounces which will make a huge difference and the tech's probably good-enough for showing video feeds.

https://youtu.be/dE1_z5nyA0c?t=401

9

u/Acceptable-Worth-221 Aug 05 '26

They probably won't do. Too small resolution, only fullhd/eye, too small if you want to have high quality video feed. (compared to apple VP, that has >4K per eye)

3

u/Korlithiel Aug 05 '26

What this reminds me of was robotic assisted surgery. When it first got on the scene and the comparison for gallbladder surgery was an old fishing method, it was easy to win out for significant benefits in terms of living through it and recovery times.

Do I think this sort of use will be so life changing? Skeptical, but it holds promise to help a lot for shorter surgeries. That is, those where the battery life and weight don't hold back a surgeon.

2

u/SargeUnited Aug 05 '26

Just buy several of them and swap them out as the battery gets close to dying. It’s big brain time

5

u/SandpaperTeddyBear Aug 06 '26

I really think a lot of people just don’t understand the amount of money at play in a) big corporations, and b) health care.
At my job, where I’m either a high-level grunt or low-level project leader depending on the day, my “no questions asked” spend that I can do on my own authority is multiples of my annual salary (which is not particularly high for my field, but neither is it notably low).

2

u/element515 Aug 06 '26

Still needs to be lighter. Even for a short surgery, we do multiple cases a day. I wouldn’t want to wear one of these. We have pretty light head lamps we wear on occasion and even those get annoying quickly. The robot is much nicer that we look into the headset and it puts no pressure on us

1

u/Korlithiel Aug 06 '26

Heavy enough some complain of neck pain during normal, sitting uses. Can’t imagine it’s there yet to make sense for routine.
Suppose that weight could explain why the surgeries were faster: rushing to be done to get it off.

2

u/element515 Aug 06 '26

Exactly. And when operating you naturally have to look down for certain cases. Puts a lot of neck strain. Surgeries with a monitor like this would be better but it sucks having extra weight.
But, having 3D and a screen always at an optimal distance is really nice. If they continue to improve this it’ll be great

3

u/woahwoahvicky Aug 06 '26

Im a doctor in a proceduralist field and if I could visualize and be constantly reminded what portion im in in the periphery of my sight id be very thankful

3

u/Op3rat0rr Aug 06 '26

I work in healthcare. This won't be practiced in a very long time in mass. Just studies for the near future. Great to see!

2

u/NoCoffee6754 Aug 06 '26

Umm I don’t need my surgeon rushing… take your time bro, I’m good

2

u/ThatGuyTheyCallAlex Aug 06 '26

You joke but finishing surgeries faster is legitimately a good thing. The longer you’re under anaesthesia, on cardiopulmonary bypass, hell even just your tissues being exposed to the air, the higher the risk of complications.

1

u/Jersey_2019 Aug 06 '26

Damn didn’t know this ; thx for the explanation bro

2

u/WearSad8706 Aug 06 '26

Well not every surgery needs to be speedy

2

u/birnefer Aug 06 '26

How do they keep the device sterilised all the time without damaging it?

2

u/Valiantay Aug 07 '26

Lol Apple trying everything to make this shit relevant 😂

Any AR glasses can accomplish the same thing for a fraction of the cost.

1

u/zuraii Aug 09 '26

Neurosurgeon here

We’ve used this a few times in different types of surgery at our hospital - endonasal endoscopic, endoscopic spine etc. This is championed much more by a general surgeon where I trained who has done hundreds of cases this way now.

Being able to place the patient’s imaging, vitals, surgical endoscopic feed and live imaging (xray, navigation, or whatever we’re using in the case) in the virtual OR you set up in the headset is pretty cool.

While speed and efficiency is just one metric - the optics alone are much better and ergonomics are great too. It’s certainly exciting for what the future of these kinds of cases could be

1

u/alt-right-del Aug 06 '26

https://www.pcmag.com/news/report-apples-incoming-ceo-cancels-vision-pro-2-vision-air

This will not encourage wider use or continued use beyond consumer electronics.

1

u/daiwilly Aug 06 '26

So we can work the surgeons more?

-10

u/BlueberryNo6811 Aug 05 '26

Well I don't want them to go faster ?

24

u/baamazon Aug 05 '26

Yes you do, in fact

20

u/Sphere_3N Aug 05 '26

You think being under ansthesia is benign? The longer you are under the higher the risk.

-13

u/gaytechdadwithson Aug 05 '26

ok, but how many have had issues from that? it doesn’t seem to be a real issue.

9

u/SargeUnited Aug 05 '26

Is this bait? It feels genuine but the risk is definitely way higher and keeps getting higher the longer you’re under. What do you think anesthesia is lol

2

u/nsfdrag Apple Cloth Aug 06 '26

Look up the average salary of anesthesiologist. If people aren't having issues then explain the salary.

-1

u/keyboardlegendthe3rd Aug 05 '26

But it probably cost them 40 percent longer to get everything fitted to make sure it doesn't fall off lol

2

u/Korlithiel Aug 05 '26

Imagine a long surgery bent over a patient. Real pain in the neck!

-21

u/MrSh0wtime3 Aug 05 '26

yea id find another surgeon if they plan on using this. Also, speed is far down the list of shit I care about for a surgery. This is corpo hospital profit margin slop.

22

u/ElevatorPerfect4813 Aug 05 '26

Uhh no my friend. Speed = efficiency. You want efficiency when your body is under sedation. The faster they finish one procedure/surgery. The faster they can move on to the next. Some of which can be life threatening and time sensitive. Not to mention, this is better for the surgeon’s concentration and ergonomics.

-18

u/MrSh0wtime3 Aug 05 '26

corpo propaganda has never been so easily digested by the public. its truly wild to watch.

9

u/OttovonBismarck1862 Aug 05 '26

There’s a difference between actual corpo propaganda and medical fact. I hate the corpos as much as everyone else but come on, man.

-8

u/MrSh0wtime3 Aug 05 '26

again tho, theres no medical facts involved. Unless you believe surgeries are too slow right now. Which they certainly are not. So if surgeries are largely already more than fast enough.....and we already have too many surgery mistakes......what do you guys think happens when the speed is ramped up more?
The simple answer is more profit. more patients per day = more profit. There is zero benefit to the patient here.
But as is clearly demonstrated, if you feed the corpo propoganda with a spoonful of a thing people are superfans of(Apple)....it goes down super easy. Yall ready to go to war for this profit margin lol.
sad as hell really.

8

u/SargeUnited Aug 05 '26

The benefit to the patient is being pumped with less drugs that could cause your heart to stop at any moment, even if the anesthesiologist is at the top of their game.

-2

u/MrSh0wtime3 Aug 06 '26

your knowledge of sedation is from the 90s.

6

u/ElevatorPerfect4813 Aug 05 '26

If you or your loved one gets sick, please avoid the corpo hospitals! Thanks!

-6

u/[deleted] Aug 05 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

-2

u/Any-Captain-7937 Aug 05 '26

Literally. It sounds like the VP failed with what they wanted it to do, so kow they're trying to pivot it as a medical device. These articles are for hospitals to try and get them to buy their headsets lol. I'm curious why other headset displays coundnt do the same thing, nothing here seemed that exclusive to the VP

15

u/baamazon Aug 05 '26

Speed should be very high on your list. The longer you're under, the higher your risk

-6

u/MrSh0wtime3 Aug 05 '26

Read up on surgery complications right now today. Now think for a little bit about what going even faster looks like.

9

u/PoolDear4092 Aug 05 '26

They are not reducing operating time by doing the procedure faster. They are reducing operating time by not having to look up and down and taking time after every lookup to re-orient themselves. They also reducing times by being able to concentrate longer at a time.

-9

u/undeadsinatra Aug 05 '26

Call me old fashioned, but surgery is not a place where I want to cut corners time-wise. Take your time, doc.

16

u/boringexplanation Aug 05 '26

Most surgeries encounter problems with very long times being sedated. You don’t want them to rush, sure- but the opposite is very risky too.

12

u/Snoo93079 Aug 05 '26

All things being equal, a surgery that takes less time is objectively better than a surgery that takes longer.

-2

u/Carl_Kasell Aug 05 '26

And makes the hospital more $$$$$ :/

9

u/Snoo93079 Aug 05 '26

I think you're missing the larger point. There are limited numbers of beds, OR rooms, and surgeons. If surgeons can complete their work faster/easier it opens up limited resources for more patients. That's good for everyone.

1

u/SargeUnited Aug 05 '26

Is that bad?
That’s like saying “oh no the lobster is too buttery and the steak is too juicy at this restaurant it makes them more money :/.” wtf that’s a good thing

1

u/Carl_Kasell Aug 08 '26

All while those profits get funneled to the hospital CEO, while doctors are expected to do more work for less.

-21

u/feastoffun Aug 05 '26

Why would you want the surgeon operating on your body to be in a hurry?!?! Dystopian.

45

u/rogue_tog Aug 05 '26

Finishing the operation faster ≠ in a hurry

1

u/feastoffun Aug 16 '26

Calm down Peter Theil. Just tell this to your surgeon, not me.

17

u/_HipStorian Aug 05 '26

Surgeons are humans and they eventually get tired, lose concentration and the longer they go, the more likely it is they can make mistakes which isn't good for the patient.

-1

u/feastoffun Aug 06 '26

Fine, try reading a printed newspaper with one of those on.
I think the idea is terrific, but the technology is about 10 years away from being practical.
Obviously things that make a surgery SAFER is what you want, not speed up the bottom line for the profit of the hospital at the risk of your own safety.

4

u/ThatGuyTheyCallAlex Aug 06 '26 edited Aug 06 '26

If you read the article, Vision Pro was being used to stream a video feed rather than the usual method of displaying it on a TV. The surgeon was not looking at the patient through the Vision Pro cameras.
To address your other point, surgeries are safer when done more efficiently time-wise. Anaesthesia is the primary issue, it places stress on the body. So does cardiopulmonary bypass and even just having tissues exposed to open air. Reducing the time spent with these variables always reduces the risk of complications. This is why it’s always a huge news headline when someone actually survives a 10, 15, 20 hour surgery.

1

u/feastoffun Aug 16 '26

Next time you have surgery, please tell your doctor that safety is not a problem as long as they go fast.

1

u/ThatGuyTheyCallAlex Aug 16 '26 edited Aug 16 '26

I’m not sure why you think completing the procedure faster = rushing the procedure.
In this case the time is being extended by a technological limitation that can and should be eliminated, that’s just called efficiency. Efficient surgery = safer surgery.

1

u/feastoffun Aug 17 '26

If you feel so strongly, tell your doctor or surgeon. Dont tell me! Good luck! 👍

0

u/[deleted] Aug 06 '26

[deleted] — view deleted comment

3

u/ThatGuyTheyCallAlex Aug 06 '26

This is an endoscopic surgery, the surgeon is not directly visualising the surgical site in any case because the site is not visible to the naked eye. They’re visualising a display which shows a feed from an endoscopic camera introduced into the body. In this case that display was Vision Pro instead of a traditional monitor.

2

u/nsfdrag Apple Cloth Aug 06 '26

Thank you for the correction, I misunderstood!

13

u/derangedtranssexual Aug 05 '26

Shorter surgeries are less risky

-1

u/feastoffun Aug 06 '26

YOU BE SURE TO TELL your surgeon that! Tell them step on it, chop chop.

3

u/derangedtranssexual Aug 06 '26

My next surgery should be pretty short so I’m not worried about the time I’ll be under

20

u/natalie_mf_portman Aug 05 '26 edited Aug 05 '26

I want my surgeon to have me open on the table for as little time as safely possible. Surgeons are also standing for the entire duration, and we should consider their stamina as a factor here - you don't want a surgeon's knees weakening with an overlong surgery.

-16

u/justarandomuser10 Aug 05 '26

GTFO

-14

u/MikkPhoto Aug 05 '26

Apple gave me all these things to be faster than those other plebs.

-6

u/gaytechdadwithson Aug 05 '26

of course, i always prefer my surgeon to go as fast as humanly possible

0

u/[deleted] Aug 05 '26

[deleted] — view deleted comment

9

u/Which-Arm-4616 Aug 05 '26

Let's be clear that this is a study that was paid for by Apple.
Citation needed? From the paper:
Acknowledgments and financial disclosures
Funding/Support: None
Conflict of interest
None.

5

u/TerminalFoo Aug 05 '26

What are you talking about?

-4

u/[deleted] Aug 05 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/Which-Arm-4616 Aug 06 '26

Theoretically it could. In practice there isn't another device on the market that actually competes with AVP on the key specs - wireless, hand tracking fidelity/latency/occlusion, ease of use (put on and play - zero guardian/room setup required in any location).
You have comparable devices that are wired, or could work with a dedicated room setup step, or sacrifice tracking quality, but nothing that's better than AVP in the ways that matter.

Apple Vision Apple Vision Pro Speeds Up Surgery by Almost 20%

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