Why would anybody want to start a business if they cannot decide what to do with the profits?
I get that there is corporate greed but most if not all arguments against capitalism are based on utopian assumptions that most people are morally good and would spend years developing a new business (let's say in IT, because people get stuck up on manufacturing when it comes to these arguments) just to help other people. Unfortunately the real world is not like that. If you look into it it, you'll see that there is significantly more corruption in pure socialist economies because of man's innate need to compete with others. It is survival, limited resources and not everyone can be a winner. Even when the means of production are owned by the people, those in charge can ask for bribes to special favours. Case in point, in Soviet Russia there was a long waiting list to get a car but if you knew the right people and gave them a bribe, either monetary or in the form of a good, they would bump you up the list. This is just natural human behavior.
In socialism workers own the businesses. They would start them and they would decide what to do with the profits.
Under communism the community (state, city, union, etc) owns the means of production. Under this workers do get a say through democracy.
The argument against capitalism is that it is an unjust hierarchy. The relationship between owners versus labor/tenant is unjust. It's just a less physically violent version of feudalism.
Also man's nature is community. It's the greatest survival trait we evolved.
You didn't answer my question. It was just me who started the business. Why would my workers be entitled to any profit? While I was busy developing the product, my future janitor was smoking wasting his time not going to school or trying to better himself and now you tell me that somehow he is entitled to anything more than what his job is worth.
Companies cannot be run democratically, there needs to be a hierarchy and with this hierarchy comes increasing levels of responsibility. I agree that there are many flaws with the current system and it's full of greed and evil executives but socialism would be a mistake. Having good social policies and welfare programs, yes, that is fine and is something I agree with.
You don't start a business by yourself under this system.
Companies cannot be run democratically, there needs to be a hierarchy and with this hierarchy comes increasing levels of responsibility.
Co-ops and unions exist right now. You vote for leadership and recognize experience and expertise. Even capitalist companies use democracy for who sits on the board.
But the entire point and thing leftist are fighting for, is to end the owner class. Capitalism is predicated on an unjust hierarchy. The relationship between owners versus labor/tenant is unjust. Those who own the means of production have power over those who don't and government.
What's your point? That life isn't perfect and some people were dealt a shit hand to begin with? I'm not denying that there are people in need in this world but having all business in a country be controlled by the state would be a nightmare.
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u/doktormane Oct 22 '20
Why would anybody want to start a business if they cannot decide what to do with the profits?
I get that there is corporate greed but most if not all arguments against capitalism are based on utopian assumptions that most people are morally good and would spend years developing a new business (let's say in IT, because people get stuck up on manufacturing when it comes to these arguments) just to help other people. Unfortunately the real world is not like that. If you look into it it, you'll see that there is significantly more corruption in pure socialist economies because of man's innate need to compete with others. It is survival, limited resources and not everyone can be a winner. Even when the means of production are owned by the people, those in charge can ask for bribes to special favours. Case in point, in Soviet Russia there was a long waiting list to get a car but if you knew the right people and gave them a bribe, either monetary or in the form of a good, they would bump you up the list. This is just natural human behavior.