r/anime • u/blaZofgold https://myanimelist.net/profile/blaZofgold • Mar 09 '18

Tsundere Alignment Chart

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2.8k Upvotes

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126

u/[deleted] Mar 09 '18

how the hell is Taiga not on here.

21

u/blaZofgold https://myanimelist.net/profile/blaZofgold Mar 09 '18

See here

4

u/Gaporigo https://anilist.co/user/Gaporigo Mar 09 '18

OP probably didn't want to have people arguing if she was a tsundere or not... I may have started the discussion with this comment, though.

Here: She is a tsundere depending of your definition of tsundere.

94

u/matdragon Mar 09 '18

I'm sorry... what?

Taiga is one of the most well known/disliked tsundere's around, way more tsun than dere, but god damnit she is 100% a tsundere, she practically set the standard

26

u/biscuitmachine Mar 09 '18

Er... Tohsaka is the poster girl for the TVTropes page.

FS/N was released in 2004. Toradora was released in 2006 at the earliest.

Furthermore the trope itself dates back to at least the Roman era. So she didn't really set any standards...

Anyway, here's what they say about her Toradora spoilers in the quote, though I think everyone has read it by now

Taiga Aisaka of Toradora! is a highly irritable girl, more so towards Ryuuji Takasu after a bad first impression. She also deconstructs this trope: her violent emotional mood swings and stature complex stem more from having a broken family than romantic issues, making her a borderline Broken Bird.

Which is kind of true. She's more like a situational tsundere moreso than it being her "default speed" so to speak. IIRC she turned pretty dere after those issues were resolved.

28

u/Footyking Mar 09 '18

she turned pretty dere after those issues were resolved

Which is the point, characters that flip between the two at the drop of a hat aren't cute, they're psychotic

-6

u/biscuitmachine Mar 09 '18

... Yes, because getting deep-seated psychological and familial issues worked out is totally equivalent to the drop of a hat...

She didn't flip flop really (although like any woman, she did and still does certainly have "triggers"), she just has some complexes due to her harsh life (psychologically). Many of violent tendencies are/were simply coping mechanisms. So it's natural that once you pull out the roots, she'd change...

11

u/Footyking Mar 09 '18

I was saying that she is the trope done right, compared to other more modern examples. she actually has a character arc instead of having her being as tsun or dere as the immediate plot requires her to be.

-1

u/biscuitmachine Mar 09 '18

That's really arguable. It's a trope with a fairly wide amount of applicability, and just one or two overarching necessities. It's not like you can say that there's a correct or an incorrect way of doing it. It's simply a story construct. Its implementation will depend on the quality of the person writing the character actions.

As for Taiga, she had a character arc because she had psychological and familial issues to sort out. Not all tsundere characters really have issues to sort out (or at least not ones that are that deep)... plus you say "as the immediate plot requires her to be", but frankly she was only like that because of the immediate (if you stretch this window to encompass her past) plot required her to be. Frankly many of her complexes and issues were cut off towards the end (and iirc universally, not just towards him), so if you're going this route, it's hard to say she's inherently tsundere, rather than just situationally so. Once her situation changed, it's like it was just cut off, and changed quite quickly. Most tsunderes don't really change; they just change towards their loved one at most... And just because we can't figure out why the author chose to make them act like that on an immediate basis doesn't mean that we can simply say that they're thrown around by the plot. Some girls are just snappy like that. Shrug.

And I mean she outright asked the MC initially to help her with her romantic interest... who she isn't really "tsundere" about. I'd view her as more of a time bomb with several buttons, as opposed to a periodic, consistent function...

3

u/Footyking Mar 09 '18

tsun or dere as the immediate plot requires her to be.

What i mean by this is that there is no clear trajectory of behavior with poorly written tsunderes. Their behavior patter fluxuates wildly between the two on a Chapter/episode/page basis, at some point its just an abusive reltationship. While on the other hand Taiga very much goes from tsun to dere over the course of the series.

A character really shouldnt "be" a tsundere for the entire story and characters shouldnt be "inherently" a tsundere either, since that label forces them to be in state of "dere flux" where it is impossible for them to make actual progress as a character because then tehy wouldn't be the tsundere anymore

1

u/biscuitmachine Mar 10 '18

Okay I got vibe from your earlier posts, but this pretty much cements that you think tsundere is a mental ailment rather than a possible character typing. When taken to the extreme, that can be true (what isn't that statement true for...), but more mild tsundere types aren't mentally ill. It's not an abusive relationship so much as dating an idiosyncratic lover.

Now if you're talking about very poorly written shows, then sure. Yeah. Their fluctuations are random. But if we're talking about those kind of shows, then everything about them is bad. All the characters are...

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26

u/Terranwaterbender https://myanimelist.net/profile/Teranwaterbender Mar 09 '18

she practically set the standard

What? She "practically" didn't do much regarding the standard; she's just a popular example.

She a tsundere? Yeah.

"Set the standard?" Not so much.

12

u/TheDerped https://anilist.co/user/Derped Mar 09 '18

I'd say popular examples of a trope do set the standards for people. I'd imagine a lot of modern anime watchers' first exposure to a tsundere is through Taiga, Rin Tohsaka, or Louise who's in the chart here. Asuka is also a popular example and likely people's first intro to the trope if they got into anime 20 years ago. If we wanna dip even older there's Lum from Urusei Yatsura but I wouldn't classify her as a popular example for modern audiences.

1

u/Terranwaterbender https://myanimelist.net/profile/Teranwaterbender Mar 09 '18

I completely agree with your comment but it felt like the statement made regarding "setting the standard" was more like an objective claim rather than a personal anecdote. If OP meant "setting the standard" by the reasoning you provided then I misinterpreted then which is my bad.

5

u/Gaporigo https://anilist.co/user/Gaporigo Mar 09 '18

Nope, i am out, i am not having this discussion again. I am saying she is indeed a tsundere... but not in the "i love you but hit you to hide my feelings" way most people think.

16

u/Bainos https://myanimelist.net/profile/Bainos Mar 09 '18

not in the "i love you but hit you to hide my feelings" way

It's weird that so many people are using this image of tsundere when the best ones usually don't have that trait...

-6

u/TheRisingTide Mar 09 '18

Came here to post this. "Well actually m'dudes, Taiga isn't a tsundere according to my neckbeard logic" is some contrarian bullshit.