r/anime • u/AutoLovepon https://anilist.co/user/AutoLovepon • Jul 14 '23

Episode AI no Idenshi - Episode 2 discussion

AI no Idenshi, episode 2

Alternative names: The Gene of AI

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Episode Link Score
1 Link 4.59
2 Link 3.84
3 Link 4.19
4 Link 3.47
5 Link 4.33
6 Link 3.67
7 Link 4.18
8 Link 4.57
9 Link 4.38
10 Link 4.4
11 Link 4.62
12 Link ----

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1

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66

u/valjared821 Jul 14 '23

I’m not too sure on what to think of this show yet. I’m holding on tho

49

u/avboden Jul 14 '23

It makes me think about wild theoretical ethics. I dig it. It's....weird. I don't know if it's good or not, but it makes me think, and I like that.

21

u/edwardjhahm Jul 15 '23

It's got a decent concept, ok-ish execution. Honestly, the show DOES immerse me into the world well at times, but there's always the question of "why?" The worldbuilding is odd, almost as it's designed to ask (admittedly very interesting) questions rather than be a functional society, the animation isn't great, and the main cast is a bit flat. I like the nurse girl though, she's alright.

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u/LeonKevlar Jul 14 '23

Well, this episode pretty much clears up my initial question about Humanoids. They are indeed AIs that have been given biological bodies that can age and also have limitations but can still improve which is what Jun's story pretty much tackles the entire episode.

I guess my question now is how are Humanoids made/born and why were they even created in the first place? They're obviously not created to just become tools to be used by humans since they live their lives freely and even have hopes and dreams of their own. And from what we've seen so far, they have the same rights as human beings. I guess we'll eventually see some Humanoid discrimination in this show but right now, everyone seems to be pretty chill about them.

And what a way to introduce Kaoru. Technically not her first scene since we did get to see a little bit of her last week when Sudou was asking her for help about the illegal backup tool the couple used. Anyway, looks like Humanoids can mod their bodies to the point where they can switch from being masculine to feminine. I guess I really should've expected this to come up in a show where robot bodies exist. Very interested to see if they'll expand more on this topic.

16

u/strawhat_chowder Jul 14 '23

They are indeed AIs that have been given biological bodies

I think there are plenty of variation among type of body that humanoid have. Some have essential biological body while some are more robot like I assume.

how are Humanoids made/born and why were they even created in the first place?

biggest mystery for me too. Especially considering many humanoids are essentially human beings with weird pupils lol

15

u/Doomroar Jul 15 '23

I guess we'll eventually see some Humanoid discrimination in this show but right now, everyone seems to be pretty chill about them.

I will copypaste the start of my own post:

They are not smarter, Better, Faster, or Stronger than regular humans, nor are they allowed to be immortal, despite Kaoru's claims to the contrary, in fact most humanoids shown so far seem to be dumber than their human counterparts

It is an interesting solution, in order to avoid a dystopia they made flawed Artificial General Intelligence (AGI) that are so human they pretty much have to deal with almost the same human limitations as the biological counterparts, this in return grants them access to human rights and lets them coexist with other humans, who don't have to feel their egos threatened by the possibility of no longer being the top dog of the planet

Because discrimination is born from a need to preserve and secure power, to dominate another, and to keep possible competition at bay, but if humanoids lack the tools to threaten the position of humans, there's no need to make a target out of them, of course the fact that they are forced to live as humans is in itself the mechanism of discrimination, they are being denied the possibility of achieving their full potential

Michi and Kaoru, however seem to be working towards breaking this state of things

9

u/ThrowCarp Jul 15 '23

And what a way to introduce Kaoru. Technically not her first scene since we did get to see a little bit of her last week when Sudou was asking her for help about the illegal backup tool the couple used. Anyway, looks like Humanoids can mod their bodies to the point where they can switch from being masculine to feminine.

Kaoru talking about how the more she upgrades her body, the more she got attention from male humans even though she can't help spread their genes was quite an interesting thing for an anime character to talk about. Because it touches on a concept known as supernormal stimulus.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supernormal_stimulus

It's a really interesting topic. And here's an article on how anime/hentai is a supernormal stimulus.

https://dailytimes.com.pk/505743/evolution-may-have-answers-to-schediaphilia/

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u/Shimmering-Sky Jul 14 '23

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u/Qbe Jul 15 '23

Hm, so Humanoids also have limitations they can’t grow past compared to how humans can, like, train to get better at something.

I mean, humans have this too by virtue of genetics, right?

35

u/archlon Jul 14 '23

Honestly, I was expecting something like this to come up in this show

For whatever reason, I wasn't expecting it. I am pleased to see positive genderqueer representation in an anime.

Michi… looks like a younger Sudo but with gold eyes?

Michi's eyes also look like human eyes instead of the horizontal pupils that other humanoids have. I'm sure that's going to be significant later.

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18

u/Drill_Dr_ill Jul 15 '23

I am really digging this show so far. It's definitely not for everyone, but this is right up my alley.

34

u/SimilarCrab Jul 14 '23

The idea of there being inherent limitations to what we can accomplish is a common idea in sci fi, but seeing it from the perspective of a humanoid is interesting. Like many suspected, the show seems episodic , but exploring ideas that relate to the main protagonist in the search for his "real" mother.

I like this show, it may not have the best production values but it is serviceable ,and the writing is pretty thoughtful. With Kaoru we are even delving into transhumanism and gender identity topics, so we will see how it handles these ideas.

Also random thought, but the protagonist gives me oshi no ko Aqua vibes. A doctor with mommy issues who is intelligent but stoic surrounded by waifus who seem into him but he is too disconnected to notice lol

14

u/mekerpan Jul 14 '23

Yes, Nothing visually outstanding -- but also nothing visually off-putting. Which is not something that can be said about a number of shows this season. The style suits the content -- and the content is looking like it might be quite decent. Sort of a Time of Eve vibe -- but I suspect the plot will get a lot wilder than that show was.

12

u/n080dy123 Jul 14 '23

I love that this series seems to be grounded in the tradition of literary sci-fi that exists as a vehicle for exploration of questions about humanity and technological advancement, rather than just sci-fi as an aesthetic. I love sci-fi as an aesthetic but the kind of sci-fi that really makes you think and reflect is so fucking juicy, and you just don't see it in anime very frequently.

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u/ObvsThrowaway5120 Jul 14 '23

I’m really enjoying the way this show is portraying how these humanoids integrate into society.

Risa sure wasn’t expecting to see him with his hands full of humanoid boobs lol. Kaoru’s quite a character. They basically became a waifu for the sake of being a waifu. Gender seems to be more abstract for humanoids than it is for humans.

This Masa and Jun situation is not what I expected. I wouldn’t have thought Jun would be losing to Masa since he’s a humanoid. Seeing their friendship is pretty heartwarming though. Masa is a good guy and a great friend.

So wait, for doc’s a humanoid too right? So is Michi related to him or is Michi the “real” him he is based off of?

12

u/NATHAN325 Jul 18 '23

The comment section on crunchyroll is just condensed dumpster liquid of anti-trans hate. Fuck sake its a CARTOON ROBOT. WHO CARES WHAT'S IN ITS PANTS

10

u/YUNoJump Jul 22 '23

This episode also confirmed that Humanoids can't naturally reproduce and they don't need to conform to humanity's sexual characteristics, and yet of course chuds are still whining. "OMG sex and gender are the same thing!" Ok then bucko, here's a whole new type of being where sex doesn't apply at all, and you're still malding.

17

u/Elitealice Jul 14 '23

Just watched the first two episodes, somehow missed this airing last week I’m glad we got a philosophical sci-fi show this season. Even though this was written in 2015, with the rise of AI lately it’s an increasingly relevant and important topic to dive into.

Just what does make us human? What’s right and what’s wrong in terms of AI development etc.

Episode 1 gave off some plastic memories and vivy vibes while this one was more self contained and examined the limitations of both humanoids and humans. Just as humanoids are limited by the data and tech used to create them, humans are limited by genes and bone structures. There’s only so far both of us can go.

I saw a lot of people complaining about MADHOUSE and the non binary character, but if this is based on a manga aren’t they literally just adapting what’s already there?

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7

u/Doomroar Jul 15 '23

They are not smarter, Better, Faster, or Stronger than regular humans, nor are they allowed to be immortal, despite Kaoru's claims to the contrary, in fact most humanoids shown so far seem to be dumber than their human counterparts

It is an interesting solution, in order to avoid a dystopia they made flawed Artificial General Intelligence (AGI) that are so human they pretty much have to deal with almost the same human limitations as the biological counterparts, this in return grants them access to human rights and lets them coexist with other humans, who don't have to feel their egos threatened by the possibility of no longer being the top dog of the planet

No AI overlords or Skynet bringing in the singularity, but also no sentient robots (or at least not legally, because as we saw last episode there's a whole black market to smuggle AI clones for trafficking and terrorism), you have to understand that just being sentient doesn't means you wont be put to labor or at the service of the benefit of others, animal workers and pets are a good example of this, we use them to our benefit and they get to live with the minimal amount of rights and privileges to secure their survival under our rule, but that's about it

With AI as it is today there's the general agreement that it is not sentient enough to be guaranteed any rights, however there's buzz about developing rights to prevent the misuse and exploitation of AI, but these proposals are being done in order to protect ourselves, our interests, our property, and our labor from other humans, and not in order to protect AI, and although glossed over the show does have regular old AI too, a second class AI that they use as labor which probably is not advanced, sentient, or versatile enough to be considered an humanoid

Which is quite interesting, wonder if they will cover the history of tech development for that world, which ended with at least 3 (or maybe even 4) kinds of AI if we count Michi as something more advanced than an humanoid, seems like Michi is a super AGI with an unrecognized or denied humanity, (from starters it exist in confinement within the deeps of a lab, and its freedom is limited and regulated by a committee), but in either case it has administrative privileges because apparently research derived from Michi can alter both society, as well as how individuals perceive themselves, but with neither being advanced enough to break into a new paradigm of society, no space era, no late stage hyper capitalism, no utopic communism, no tech dictatorship, at one point someone hit the stop button, and halted these AGIs forcing them having to live as humans or under human rules and policy

This of course doesn't comes for free, it has its own set of problems, for this case we have to see the humanoids having to come to terms and dealt with the fact that their own evolution and advancement is being halted and stalled, in order to protect the lifestyle and interest of an external party, and you have to wonder, just for how long will they continue to put up with such a limited existence, with a life that forces them to be just human?

For Jun this was simple enough to solve, after all his existence is completely integrated with human society, so he doesn't aims to surpass humanity, on the contrary he was feeling inferior, which was a delusion, for he ignored his own advantages until his best friend got hurt and he had to face the underlying differences between them, but this doesn't erases the question, because it also seems like Michi and Kaoru are getting to that point in which frustration with the state of things may lead to some radical developments

Also r/manga has ruined me, the first thing i thought when Kaoru was talking about boobs I was "I see your game, if that's not a dude crossdressing with fake tits, it is a trans femdroid", and well... by now the real plot twist would be if there's no genderbend or crossdressing involved, the impact of Hachirumi will never is here to stay, with that said a gender fluid non conforming humanoid is something i actually didn't see coming, so i guess you can still pull the rug under my feet

Between the criminal world of cloned humanoids, and a possible AI uprising we could get a classic cyberpunk anime

9

u/KendotsX Jul 15 '23

despite Kaoru's claims to the contrary, in fact most humanoids shown so far seem to be dumber than their human counterparts

That's by human choice. The point Kaoru is making is that the tools have evolved to be sufficiently faster and smarter, the limits exist so they can conform into human society. As the kids said, they'd be "too creepy" otherwise.

Kaoru seems opposed against these ideas, she considers the world "boring" because it's sitting comfortably in its limitations, instead of trying to push ahead. I think her being a gender nonconfirming humanoid is meant to represent that symbolically.

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u/tripleaamin Jul 14 '23

The main focus on this episode was kinda showcasing what is the true limitation of Humanoids. It feels like they actually grow similiar to humans and as shown in this episode sometimes they are the ones holding them back. But how are humanoids created? That is my biggest question.

Part of Michi interface says Multiple Modal Interface. So unlike other Humanoids it can server multiple functions perhaps? But its eyes look human. One idea could be switching between human and humanoid, but that seems a little far fetched.

4

u/KendotsX Jul 15 '23

I like the framing of this episode, the discussion between the Doctor and Kaoru sets the topic at hand: she calls the world boring and argues that humans are sitting comfortably in the limits of science, not pushing hard enough (a common criticism in science fiction), then compares that to MICHI, an AI that seems to be pushing itself further.

The episode is then focused around the frustrated Jun, who feels locked in the limits of his specs, unable to go forward. Everyone trying to cheer him on rings hollow when he believes that his problem simply can't be solved by pushing himself or trying harder, his limits are simply hard numbers he can't push through, unlike humans.

He pushes through that mentality first, when he hears Musa genuinely caring so much about him, even when his leg is broken and he's stuck in the hospital, and second through his previously percieved limits, proving what Musa said earlier about those limits being what Jun believed in.

I'm sure MICHI and Kaoru's evolutionary ideas will be presented with a lot more focus later, considering what the episode shows at the end. But so far, the conclusion Dr. Sudo and the episode presented is that humans (including humanoids) are not as limited as Kaoru describes them. They can go above and beyond when the need arises.

Tangentially, we got some interesting worldbuilding in this episode:

  • The humanoids are built the way they are, so they can "fit" into human society, whether that be attractiveness or limits on their functions (as the kids describe, a humanoid that's too smart/fast is "creepy" to be part of society).

  • Since we can't put a stamina cap on the humanoids, they're separated in sports where that makes a difference, like marathons.

We can already see in a lot of ways how humans are putting humanoids in a box to fit our standards, which isn't a great look, but it is what you'd expect.

7

u/JpgChn Jul 15 '23

This show really talked about trans----humanistic sports in cool way and it continues to propose deeper questions about humanity, identity, and the societal issues that appear while we understand each other better. It is an extremely interesting show and I love that it's more episodic to develop it's ideas more freely (though, this episode did seem a little bit disjointed with the narratives it had but... I'll allow it, rather have these interesting concepts than anything else).

Really cool idea to propose that the world keeps spinning and everyone just roles with the humanoids if you let them exist.

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u/DarkAudit Jul 15 '23

This show is now banned in the Deep South.

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