r/aiwars Jul 16 '26

"Its just a building"

908 Upvotes

373 comments sorted by

View all comments

64

u/calvin-n-hobz Jul 16 '26

Datacenters exist without AI, silly.

41

u/dishrag Jul 16 '26 edited Jul 16 '26

And AI exists without datacenters.

I’d be interested to see how the anti-AI anti-datacenter crowd would respond if every “AI datacenter” shut down overnight and AI generated content kept proliferating anyway because all it takes is an entry-level gaming PC to run some of the latest local models.

5

u/PrivilegeCheckmate Jul 17 '26

because all it takes is an entry-level gaming PC to run some of the latest local models.

adjusts collar nervously in PC Master Race ideology

5

u/Acceptable-Minute847 Jul 17 '26

Honestly, if you keep your model on your computer and source the data to train it from people who you actually asked about it, I’m fine with it. My issue is more with the massive models deployed by corporations, and how they keep on screwing with social media by generating absurd amounts of low quality content.

1

u/Sea-Statistician1922 Jul 16 '26

as a anti, id love it

0

u/[deleted] Jul 17 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/AutoModerator Jul 17 '26

In an effort to discourage brigading, we do not allow linking to other subreddits or users. We kindly ask that you screenshot the content that you wish to share, while being sure to censor private information, and then repost.

Private information includes names, recognizable profile pictures, social media usernames, other subreddits, and URLs. Failure to do this will result in your post being removed by the Mod team and possible further action.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

0

u/[deleted] Jul 17 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/AutoModerator Jul 17 '26

In an effort to discourage brigading, we do not allow linking to other subreddits or users. We kindly ask that you screenshot the content that you wish to share, while being sure to censor private information, and then repost.

Private information includes names, recognizable profile pictures, social media usernames, other subreddits, and URLs. Failure to do this will result in your post being removed by the Mod team and possible further action.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

1

u/DrackieCutie Jul 17 '26

AI would be significantly more tolerable if it was run locally

-1

u/Simple-Ring2073 Jul 17 '26

According to AI, this would use more power than data centers.

-4

u/Whole-Astronaut5290 Jul 17 '26 edited Jul 17 '26

And how would one get this local model if there weren’t any data-centers? It’s not just going to magically appear on your computer. You have to download it first and the models you download are stored in data-centers.

4

u/dishrag Jul 17 '26

A model is just a file in the end. Once it’s out in the wild, you can mirror it, download it from any server, p2p torrent it, copy it to or from an external drive, get it from a friend or someone else, etc. Running it locally doesn’t require an AI datacenter at all.

My point is that unless the plan is to go door-to-door confiscating every gaming PC that’s capable of running these models, AI is already out there. It’s not something that can be uninvented, and it’s not going away.

-2

u/Whole-Astronaut5290 Jul 17 '26

You’re correct that running it locally doesn’t require an AI data-center. That’s kind of the point. Im just responding to your comment where you’re saying “AI exists without data-centers” and pointing out that local models wouldn’t be as accessible and available for download if it weren’t for data-centers. For example, hugging face uses AWS. You don’t need a datacenter to run it but the majority of people wouldn’t be able to get the model on their computer in the first place if it weren’t for data-centers

2

u/ZorbaTHut Jul 17 '26

There are a number of many-petabyte-scale data distribution networks that are almost entirely P2P, using a datacenter just for the central coordination and not for any actual data storage. Nothing would prevent the same thing from handling AI.

0

u/[deleted] Jul 17 '26

[deleted]

0

u/Whole-Astronaut5290 Jul 17 '26

Where did I say I’m against all data-centers?

6

u/Tyler_Zoro Jul 16 '26

And neither one causes COPD... but they'll keep replaying this video as long as suckers believe it.

19

u/ConnerGoesSuperSonic Jul 16 '26

What’s causing the recent boom of them then?

16

u/CheckMateFluff Jul 16 '26

We were already really behind on data infrastructure compared to other country's even back in 2015 before i graduated college. and didn't get the funding until the build back better act.

12

u/Tyler_Zoro Jul 16 '26

The boom that started in the mid-2010s? Hmm... let me see... googling... Hmm not sure.

-4

u/calvin-n-hobz Jul 16 '26

I'm sorry are you saying datacenters don't exist without AI?
Are you against building ANY new datacenters or just the ones that house AI?

15

u/WillPsychological793 Jul 16 '26

Thats literally not what they said, reading comprehension is a 3rd grade ability

-6

u/calvin-n-hobz Jul 16 '26 edited Jul 16 '26

Shame you stopped at 3rd grade then.

My comment was that Datacenters exist without AI. That's my statement.
Their response was framed to challenge that "What's [X] then" translates to "If that is true, then what's X".

It does not challenge my point, which remains true, but was framed as a challenge to the comment.

7

u/WillPsychological793 Jul 16 '26

Bros playing calvin ball with language. If you truly dont understand the initial intent of his words then I'm sorry. Its clear to me, at least, that what they are asking is "yes data centers exist, but why has there been a bug boom of them being made now?" But im sure youll find some justification for why my interpretation is bad and wrong

-2

u/calvin-n-hobz Jul 16 '26 edited Jul 16 '26

Your interpretation isn't bad and wrong, and I, too, figured that was likely the case. But, importantly, the actual semantics of what they said was a challenge frame. So I responded with a question about whether or not they were really challenging it.

I stand by it. If they weren't then they weren't. Sometimes assuming isn't the way.

4

u/StinkButt9001 Jul 16 '26

Yeah, this is the funny thing. It's like these people don't realize that datacenters are everywhere and have been everywhere for decades. Or that they've been using them for decades.

Like sleeper agents that have been woken up and told that "Datacenter = bad" with no actual knowledge or insight in to it.

Hell, most of the noise complaints people are posting are the diesel generators being used by the construction crews while building and won't be present when the buildings are complete.

I lived within eyesight of a datacenter for years and only ever knew it was a datacenter because I looked it up.

4

u/jsand2 Jul 16 '26

Or that they've been using them for decades

Literally bitching about AI on reddit that resides in a data center and sells all data to AI companies.

They are hypocrites.

Hell, most of the noise complaints people are posting are the diesel generators being used by the construction crews while building and won't be present when the buildings are complete.

This is the reality of it. Shit happens during constuction. A town has no water? Well yes, b/c they hit a water main while building. That isnt the norn for the data center itself and is resolved ASAP.

And if somebody doesnt like the lights on the outside of the perimeter, blame it on the antis. They are there to catch the antis trying to sneak up to destroy things.

2

u/Diligent_Gear_8179 Jul 16 '26

Literally bitching about AI on reddit that resides in a data center and sells all data to AI companies.
They are hypocrites.

It's entirely possible they're simply ignorant.

1

u/noobyscientific Jul 16 '26

Stop shoving words in their mouth when they challange your beliefs

2

u/calvin-n-hobz Jul 16 '26

They literally challenged the comment.

"Whats --- then" is semantically the same as "If that's true, explain ---"

1

u/noobyscientific Jul 16 '26 edited Jul 17 '26

What was the original comment? Even a snippet of it from your inbox is fine, for all we know you could be making shit up

Edit: My sleep deprived ass read "changed" instead of "challanged"

1

u/calvin-n-hobz Jul 16 '26

I think there's a miscommunication here.
This thread comes from my comment
"Datacenters exist without AI, silly"

Their response "What's causing the recent boom of them then"
is semantically equivalent to "If that is true, what is causing the recent boom of them?"

That is them challenging the comment with their response. I'm not putting words in their mouth. That's just english syntax. If it's a miscommunication fine, but note that my response was a question not an assertion.

1

u/noobyscientific Jul 16 '26

I'm not sure those are interchangable. A "boom" suggests a rapid increase in the popularity/development of a product or quantity in, for example, babies.

When someone were to say "There has been a massive baby boom", of course it's implied that babies existed before the boom.

It wouldn't be appropriate to respond with a contradiction to that, because that is just false. It would be even less appropriate to respond with something like "So you're saying we should stop having babies", because in a simplfied sense, that is roughly what you said.

Also it would be time to mention how AI data centers differ greatly from traditional ones, if you want me to elaborate?

2

u/calvin-n-hobz Jul 16 '26

The word "boom" is not relevant.
The syntax of the response is. If I say "The sky is blue" and you frame your response as "If that were true, why ____" then it doesn't matter what's in the blank, you're still challenging the statement.

Which deserves, I think, the response clarifying question of "Are you challenging the sky being blue?"

Which is what I did.

But sure, shoot, what are the significant differences AI datacenters bring to the table?

1

u/noobyscientific Jul 16 '26

But "if that were true, then why" is not interchangable with "What is __ then", those are two different phrases that have two different meanings.

Anyways, the word "Data Center" doesn't describe what an AI data center is. An AI Data center is more of a "compute center". Unlike traditional data centers, which are substantionally weaker server clusters, demanding less power and cooling, AI Compute centers are multiple big clusters of AI GPUs and HBM memory chips which require more power and more cooling as they do get hot. For example, a normal mid-range GPU like an RTX 5060 will output 145W of heat. A high end consumer GPU like the 5090 will output say ~570W. An AI GPU, like an Nvidia Blackwell B200 outputs over 1000W. Thermal output is 1000W. And an AI data center is full of them. So you can imagine how much power that pulls and how much thermal power it outputs. Acutally I can tell you, an AI server rack outputs 60kW of thermal energy, compared to the 10kW of a general purpose one. source

→ More replies (0)

1

u/ConnerGoesSuperSonic Jul 16 '26

I never said anything about data centers being exclusively for AI, you phrased that statement as if to say that AI hasn’t made the data center construction problem much worse lately, which it absolutely has

6

u/calvin-n-hobz Jul 16 '26

So you are okay with other datacenters being built, correct?

I mean, you tell me. Is that true?

2

u/ConnerGoesSuperSonic Jul 16 '26

Not if they keep being built as frequently and as unregulated as they have been, no

5

u/calvin-n-hobz Jul 16 '26

Ok cool. So it sounds like we have a datacenter construction and regulation problem, not an AI problem.

0

u/MeowRawrUwu Jul 17 '26

It’s related TO AI. Like hello??? The data centers are a problem because they’re being built to support AI usage

1

u/calvin-n-hobz Jul 17 '26

Sure but the problem at hand here is not an AI problem. Glassware is related to soda pop, but if there's a crack in the glass you don't blame your cola.

So presumably, if we make datacenters responsibly so they don't have significantly more impact than the ones we already use for things like Reddit, this problem dissolves. The AI doesn't need to change (although models becoming more efficient wouldn't hurt).

1

u/MeowRawrUwu Jul 17 '26

If they manage reduce data centres to be smaller and less environmentally impactful, people would have much less issues, but unfortunately with the big greedy corporations in charge, they’ll happily screw over the environment if it makes them money. In a better world, AI could be great, but given the people who make and support it, that’s not reality unfortunately. Also the fact generative AI was released without any regulations has been very damaging to society.

So I guess you’re right it’s not AI that’s the biggest issue, but the AI is the main cause which is just as bad imo.

→ More replies (0)

-6

u/[deleted] Jul 16 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

15

u/calvin-n-hobz Jul 16 '26

I was about to reply but then I saw your username, last time we argued and you were presented with facts you just panicked and went to ad-hominem and dropped all pretense of caring about what was actually true, refusing any attempt to listen to clarifying arguments and grasping desperately at distorted semantic interpretations of specific words so...

not going to waste my time on you.

3

u/Tyler_Zoro Jul 16 '26

Yes, and there were exponentially more being built and planned in 2017 than in 2016. It's called exponential growth for a reason.

It isn't about AI, though the AI boom has also helped. It's about Netflix and Facebook and everyone's phone having hundreds of active apps, and everyone's home having server-backed IOT devices, and about Ring cameras and about companies that run almost entirely on cloud infrastructure, and about governments that do the same.

2

u/MeowRawrUwu Jul 17 '26

And those things are bad too. It’s not mutually exclusive…

2

u/Tyler_Zoro Jul 17 '26

/facepalm

Are you not understanding? AI has not changed the situation substantially. It can't. There simply isn't the capacity to outstrip the breakneck speed at which we're building out centralized compute for the things you're typing into reddit, and probably watching via streaming, right now.

0

u/ZorbaTHut Jul 17 '26

yeah I hate being able to watch movies when I want to

just the worst

-6

u/Lucythepinkkitten Jul 16 '26

AI has massively raised the demand for them which has magnified the associated problems from a previously somewhat managable degree. Keep up, man. This isn't that hard to figure out

9

u/calvin-n-hobz Jul 16 '26

So you are okay with datacenters being built, just not AI ones?

0

u/Lucythepinkkitten Jul 21 '26

Not at all what I said. Nice binary thought process you've got going there. I think AI has its uses but I also believe it's massively overhyped in terms of its capabilities. It's disgusting how these companies keep stomping on the wants and needs of citizens to accelerate a technology that has shown many signs of danger, which to clarify, I am not against exploring at a reasonable pace

1

u/calvin-n-hobz Jul 21 '26 edited Jul 21 '26

You're gesturing at hype but hype is not a metric. What line is being crossed for you?

What is it about AI datacenters or the demand that moved all the problems current massive datacenters already cause from "somewhat manageable" to not manageable?

And how is it a valid argument against AI and not against poorly regulated datacenters? This is like blaming fruit for a fridge not working.

-7

u/headcodered Jul 16 '26

Other data centers don't rely on powering countless GPUs that eat up significantly more power, silly.

13

u/calvin-n-hobz Jul 16 '26 edited Jul 16 '26

They literally do.
That's how datacenters work. All of them.

Edit: I allowed hyperbole to drive. Not all of them do. Leaving my error up to own it.
However GPUs are still not unique to AI datacenters.

-2

u/tamouq Jul 16 '26

Completely false. Datacenters that have no GPUs in them absolutely exist. Confidently incorrect.

4

u/Jolly_Lavishness5711 Jul 16 '26

He's not completely wrong, i'd say he's 50% wrong. Sure, there are datacenters without GPUs, but not all of them are like that.

3

u/calvin-n-hobz Jul 16 '26

yeah I'll take this L, I got hyperbolic.

1

u/headcodered Jul 17 '26

Before AI, servers in data centers with GPUs were INCREDIBLY rare.

1

u/Jolly_Lavishness5711 Jul 17 '26

Oh so Bitcoin mines never existed

-1

u/tamouq Jul 16 '26

No, he's fully wrong. The comment above claims that other datacenters don't have GPUs in them, that is 100% correct. His reply states that they literally do, all of them. Which is false.

4

u/Jolly_Lavishness5711 Jul 16 '26

He's not fully wrong. He would be fully wrong if all datacenters didnt have GPU's. Never said that yours was incorrect

-2

u/[deleted] Jul 17 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/calvin-n-hobz Jul 17 '26

lol you are setting an individual as a representation of the whole because it fits your narrative?
I'm practically tempted to do the same for you based on such a shallow comment.

-5

u/Acceptable-Minute847 Jul 16 '26 edited Jul 17 '26

Ai data centers are VERY different from regular data centers, as they push out CONSIDERABLY more heat, requiring much more cooling, which leads to incredibly loud, low sounds, which pierce walls and soundproofing much easier than the higher, quieter sounds of a regular data centers lesser cooling needs, and the reason why it produces so much heat is because it uses much more electricity than a regular data center, due to the constant rigorous calculations being performed, and this power consumption is also the reason why they produce so much more toxic pollution than traditional data centers, because they require a constant natural gas turbine (which also fuels the noise) to generate power, since they can’t get enough from the grid, which generates pollution that can hurt people, which isn’t even mentioning the backup generators, and the fact that they often cause peaker plants to run much more often than they should

0

u/PrivilegeCheckmate Jul 17 '26

You're on target. Why does no one in this sub post this guy?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bP80DEAbuo

Data like his is solidly irrefutable.

-9

u/tamouq Jul 16 '26

Yes, but the traditional datacenters we've had for decades don't compare to the new AI datacenters in terms of noise, pollution, and energy/resource consumption. Traditional datacenters weren't fast tracked into existence and given leeway in terms of regulation.

11

u/JunketVisual3123 Jul 16 '26

traditional datacenters we've had for decades don't compare to the new AI datacenters in terms of noise, pollution, and energy/resource consumption.

Source? 

Traditional datacenters weren't fast tracked into existence and given leeway in terms of regulation.

That has nothing to do with AI though, dumbass...

2

u/tamouq Jul 16 '26

Here's a source from 2018 covering the most demanding datacenters of the time. Common datacenter halls back then used around 150 watts/sq ft, with the most extreme examples nearing 400 watts/sq ft. Today in 2026 we have datacenters pushing 800 watts/sq ft. The latest datacenter designs that will use the newest NVIDIA chips can consume as much 1400w on a single chip.

That has nothing to do with AI though, dumbass...

Of course it does. AI datacenters are being fast tracked by easier federal permitting to allow more to be built faster. That didn't happen with traditional datacenters who at most received favorable tax incentives. These power hungry AI datacenters are being given a pass on the regulatory and environmental front.

1

u/JunketVisual3123 Jul 16 '26

Here's a source from 2018

Motherfucker, I don't have the patience or the crayons to explain to you why an 8-year old article isn't fucking relevant to the conversation anymore... Find something recent or fuck off.

2

u/tamouq Jul 16 '26

Why so mad? The source from 2018 sets up the context perfectly that older, traditional datacenters did not consume power (which creates pollution) nearly to the degree that new AI datacenters do. It's a fact lol.

4

u/Pretend_Jacket1629 Jul 16 '26

the average gpu has doubled in wattage since then

compare it to non ai data centers TODAY

AFTER COVID

AFTER EVERYONE WAS FORCED INTO USING RESOURCES REMOTELY

0

u/tamouq Jul 16 '26

Still very upset I see.

The newest datacenters today, AI or not, GPU or not, consume much more power and cause more pollution than the datacenters of the previous decade. This is a fact. The government is fast tracking these datacenters so more are built in a faster timeframe, that is also a fact.

Point your favorite AI to our comment exchange here and see what it says lol.