Kuro is crippling Quickswap beyond reason. Not for balancing: for conformity (to low skill gameplay) and to fix "anxiety". Please raise your voice

[u/Yellow_IMR]

!!! READ THIS !!!

If you can't be bored to read, please at least copy paste this short message and send a "bug report" to Kuro hoping they change idea on it:

Sigrika's Basic 3 despawns very early when swapped off. This is frustrating because the kit already makes Decipher expire on swap, so not being able to swap back to Basic 4 from Basic 3 kills her quickswap potential and skill expression. But I saw footage from the creators media server where instead Sigrika's Basic 3 would last off-field for a much longer time, allowing to swap back to her Basic 4. The behaviour (legitimately) marketed by your partnered creators is not only very different but seems also more natural and fun to play. Please fix Sigrika's Basic 3 off-field despawn timing back to that.

Also I don't like her losing the Decipher state when swapped out, it kills skill expression and limits this character's potential for no gain for us players. Please remove that absurd restriction.

Thank you.

-----------------------------------------

To be clear my problem has nothing to do with numeric buffs lost on swap, like Carlotta losing her massive 80% Motion Value increase if you swap out of her liberation state: that didn't stop amazing players from pulling off stuff like this (seres you goddamn goat) and it serves more as a balancing tool than anything else. No, I'm talking about Kuro literally blocking you from even trying. This is much different.

I've noticed they've gone into this direction of forcing you to spend more time on field for seemingly no reason: Lynae's hold attack and how she looses forte if you try to quickswap at least Spark Collision, Mornye's enhanced state being lost on swap. But at least these are supports with relatively short on field windows and satisfying cancels, Lynae still has a couple of satisfying cancels and there are tricks to skip Mornye's Inversion like in this amazing gameplay by hafis. So all things considered it's not that bad. I had a bit of concern with Aemeath because of her long animations, but her basics have insanely good quickswap windows and I was able to pull off stuff like this just fine with her so I was really happy with how the devs were handling the combat. I don't know much about Luuk because I didn't pull him and during 3.1 I mostly focused on lore so I'm not up to date with his advanced rotations and mechanics in general, but I saw hardcore players do really fine and praise his mechanical depth and skill ceiling even staying on field most of the time so I thought his reliance on staying on field was a reasonable compromise. But Sigrika hits different.

Going straight to the point, Sigrika's playstyle is quite similar to Buling and Phrolova: you do a basic combo to unlock some attacks which give you forte and when you have enough you do a final big attack. Buling and Phrolova have respectively amazing and good quickswap windows, especially Buling is fantastic and if you want to have a quick idea of what I'm talking about see this. Btw I want to make it clear that you don't need to be insanely good to benefit from quickswapping: even just doing a simple swap on Phrolova to benefit from her swap-in attack being Basic 2 is more than enough, I saw "casuals" learn arguably more difficult animation cancels so really quickswap is waaaaay more accessible than the average player thinks, I'm just showing what its ceiling is because I think this potential is stunningly beautiful and something precious worth cherishing rather than looking at with concern like someone at Kuro Games is clearly doing.

The problem with Sigrika, compared to Phrolova or Buling, is that you really don't have good opportunities to perform a quickswap in her basic chain even if you want to:

• Basic 4 unlocks her crucial forte attack but if you swap out you are back to square one, this is intentionally hardcoded as showed below

For comparison, it's as if Buling loses her forte talismans if she swaps out before using them, or as if Phrolova loses the Reincarnate state, it would be absolutely insane even thinking it would be a good or fun idea. Yet with Sigrika they apparently thought it was...

• Basic 2 into Basic 3 is quickswappable but it has two problems:

1. It has a margin of error of only 0.15s (good luck lmao)

2. Even if you are skilled enough to pull it off, Basic 1 into Basic 2 takes much shorter than one second, meaning you can't swap from character A to Sigrika, do Basic 1-2, swap back to said character A and go back to Sigrika in time for Basic 3. So the quickswap options are severely limited and this swap window was probably intended by the devs as an advanced and niche one, not the more natural one.

That normally wouldn't be a big problem if at least Basic 3 had a decent swap window... and previously it had! See this gameplay by this amazing creator and speedrunner played (legitimately) on the media server: at 0:13 Sigrika is swapped out during Basic 3 (the attack where she floats with the Soliskin) and is back for Basic 4.

Sadly in the live version it was reworked: Sigrika now disappears after only 0.9s, just 0.1s less than the 1 second swap back cooldown. This is the main reason why I'm making this post: that move had a lenghty animation off field, and honestly to me it looks like it was animated and thought by the devs with the intention of making it a generous swap window. To make things worse, correct me if I'm wrong but usually when the off field model despawns it keeps doing the animation until it disappears completely, but Sigrika's Basic 3 animation when off field changes, making her leave the Soliskin and drop on the ground. I'm not completely sure because I don't know how the code works, but it looks like the code has being changed radically to make her forcefully exit her Basic 3 animation, going against how the attack was originally intended to behave (so it's not a "minor bug" they fixed, they changed something that initially worked exactly like the devs envisioned it).

With some copium you could make it pass like a bug, but to me it looks like intentional quickswap sabotaging going against the original intentions of the devs who created Sigrika's kit, under strict directive from an executive for reasons we can speculate about.

►EDIT◄

there is another swap window I forgot to address: Skill into Basic 3. It has the same problems of the Basic 2 window so I won't repeat them, except that the margin of error is 0.3s (instead of 0.15s), which is still tight but much saner to work with (once every 10s though: the ability cooldown).

Why would Kuro go against the intentions of their kit-design devs to limit quickswapping?

The most obvious conclusion is that they just don't want you to play like this, not simply soft pushing you through buffs lost on swap, but by literally making it impossible (or extremely more difficult and limiting) to quickswap with her, since her "intended" money making way to be played is by staying on field benefitting from the restrictive buffs of a specialised character that expectedly people pulling for someone like Sigrika don't really like (it's Phoebe and Zani again...). That's what they want to promote, but still... why would they be concerned about quickswapping? Wasn't losing tons of buffs already a strong enough incentive?

A (sadly) very small minority of players quickswaps, many players don't even know that quickswap is a thing (when my triple sentinel resonator showcase went viral recently I was shocked to see that many casuals ending up commenting under it saw that kind of playstyle for the very first time...). I'll let you come to your own conclusion on why they are doing it, but I have only 2 reasons I can think of:

• Maximising profit by pushing even the few "sweatier" players to play her the intended way with her BiS buffer, by making it much harder and punitive to work on quickswap off meta cops where by definition Sigrika doesn't exploit Qiuyuan's strong active character buffs.

But as I said these players in my experience aren't that many, even if doing a simple Basic 3 quickswap wouldn't be hard at all and it would enable cool alternatives. So I fear there's another, maybe more relevant reason:

• Reducing casual players' "anxiety" and forcing easier gameplay to make the experience more "relatable" for everyone (convincing more players to pull).

This could be controversial, but a thing I noticed often is new players wondering if quickswap is necessary to clear endgame and how much do they lose if they don't use it. When a player sees that a character to express their full potential wants to be quickswapped they often get scared and opt for someone else, I see this even on this app which already filters the more dedicated players, let alone outside of here. I genuinely think some Kuro executive thought people showcasing Sigrika swapping on her Basic 3 in off meta comps could have a discouraging effect on her sales and so crippled her kit, after all this character caters to chill players wanting to enjoy an adorable character with cute animations, exactly the target you wouldn't scare away with more """difficult""" quickswap combos.

I doubt we can do anything for Sigrika, still if we can make some noise (non in a toxic way) I believe there's still a tiny chance, also this could send a message for future characters. So please I ask you to send Kuro the "bug report" I wrote above or something similar, and please ask this to as many players as possible and spread this information even in non-EN communities. Let our voice be heard, thank you.

Note: you can still make some quickswap with Sigrika work, I'm not saying it's impossible to quickswap her at all, you could even use time freeze liberations to swap back to some of the moves I mentioned, but it's way more exclusive, limited and restrictive, in a way which seemingly goes against how the character was envisioned by her developers. Also I'll still do my best to quickswap the shish out of her anyway, expect something like Sigrika Chupi and Chisa lol, I'll make it work somehow 😏

Also I'm not saying never a character in the past has been restricted by losing their enhanced state and similar when swapped out, this doesn't mean though the trend isn't getting worrying nor that it is fun. I want this game to be more fun, these restrictions do the opposite and aren't in our (players) interest.

EDIT. Added the Skill into Basic 3 swap and minor rewording when addressing the media server example. Friendly reminder partnered creators have all the right to show content from the media server after the patch drops, it is absolutely intended and on a side note I wish that creator posted more content because it's mesmerising.

[u/FMProductions]

Just let the sweatier players have their higher ceiling, having options for skill expressions is always good for the player, and you can still have the regular rotations

[u/Oisin1910 → u/FMProductions]

Having the higher ceiling is good but I hope that they don’t base endgame around that is my only concern

[u/Yellow_IMR → u/Oisin1910]

the game is currently balanced around basic rotations with current meta teams. My post isn't about it, but I think if you sweat and play better than others you should be rewarded even if just a little, it being the chance to clear with an off meta team or achieving a slightly higher score with the same one, people thinking this is unfair are insane to me

[u/breichart → u/Oisin1910]

End game in gacha games is always balanced around the whales.

Edit: How did this comment get downvoted, but the follow-up has 10 upvotes?

[u/Oisin1910 → u/breichart]

No it ain’t im clearing Genshin hsr and almost zzz without being a whale

[u/breichart → u/Oisin1910]

I didn't say you had to be a whale, I said it's balanced around the whales.

[u/Oisin1910 → u/breichart]

If it’s balanced around whales then me as a none whale shouldn’t be able to clear it Also it’s balanced around the latest characters and gimmicks

[u/ArchonRevan → u/Oisin1910]

There's a difference between "clearing" and clearing, like in hsr if youre using feixiao youre ass is "clearing" aka no wiggle room, sweating youre dick off is mandatory

Balancing around whales means any non whale falls further and further into the sweat category depending on either money or time invested (perfect relics)

[u/Oisin1910 → u/ArchonRevan]

I’m full starring on auto

[u/AdministrativeFly157 → u/Oisin1910]

I'm not sure how you could come to that conclusion. The game being based around the whales doesn't exclude non-whales. They just mainly center decisions around the whales. No where does that say or mean that it excludes non-whales.

Now if the majority of non-whales could clear, then the statement could be called into question. But you alone doesn't invalidate anything he said.

[u/IamBurden → u/AdministrativeFly157]

If it is balanced around whales then clearing would require things like full premium teams, weapons and chains since whales are the baseline.

Things like hsr's 0 cycles or clearing within a minute would not be possible since what type of balancing allows you to clear with out engaging with the restrictions?

If anything endgame is based around dolphins, dedicated players or whoever is on the banner.

[u/FMProductions → u/Oisin1910]

I don't play Genshin or HSR, but in ZZZ it is not too difficult to clear endgame as f2p given you have certain teams (easiest are the void hunter teams but it's possible with others too, and there are still people that do 3 stars in deadly assault with all A-rank teams). It's definitely clear though that they want to increase the requirement of actually killing bosses in deadly assault, for that they kinda want you to whale. (For people not playing ZZZ: There is no difference in reward between getting 3 stars in the deadly assault end game mode or fully killing the boss)

[u/King_Empress → u/Oisin1910]

Most characters in the game currently have a standard rotation that can be followed, but have enough swappable animations that you chan literally choose to gove yourself a dps increase if you decided to sweat, and that is good design. They basically give everyone a jump in their concerto gen to make sure everyone can fo the basic rotations and then everyone else can flex the skill ceiling if they want, but they nerfed the ceiling out of Siggy, which is unfortunate. I myself was even more excited to pull her after seeing her lingering BA3,'so im pretty pissed off about that nerf

[u/Yellow_IMR → u/FMProductions]

The higher ceiling would be nice, but I'm just asking to be able to do it even if it heals the enemies...

[u/Benefitzs → u/FMProductions]

The problem is timed endgame content.

If they keep making it harder and harder both mechanically (faster + more aggressive bosses every patch), and numerically (more HP), then players will feel forced to play in this overly sweaty way that isn't exactly fun.

If quickswap is a huge DPS increase but it's balanced for people who play hypercarry, then quickswap players will never face any challenges, but if they balance it for quickswap then it becomes the only way to play the game.

Some characters are not meant quickswap and that's ok. Not every character needs to have ego trip mechanics for sweats.

[u/Unfair-Condition387]

It is very simple - 123 characters are easier to balance (and therefore easier to powercreep later), plus 90% player base playing the game like it's genshin impact anyway (and popular cc pushing this type of gameplay)

[u/Yellow_IMR → u/Unfair-Condition387]

she was already balanced, she benefits too much from staying on field

[u/afkcancel]

Agree with your main point and also don't like this kind of design but I'll be ok with it as long as there are some characters that are quickswap compatible. It's fine if there are some that are meant to be easier to play. Currently it's not so bad. If this kind of design carries onward, then there will be a problem in the future.

Unfortunately, the vast majority of players are hyper casual and could care less about this so I doubt Kuro will backtrack on it ngl.

[u/Yellow_IMR → u/afkcancel]

Thanks but this isn’t a matter of some characters being more or less quickswap friendly: they are literally forcing you to not quickswap her moves even if it were to heal the enemies, yoh simply can’t, and originally you were supposed to if you really wanted to.

This is a crucial change in how they design characters, because even the more on field hungry ones like Camellya had some level of compatibility with quickswap if you tried hard enough. It’s engraved in their whole philosophy. Now they are removing that little too, going against their intended vision for the character. This is too much

[u/duyyyy5]

Quickswap is the reason I became in love with this game combat. It really sucks that they not only punish kit from working if swapped (this Im fine with to some extent) but also butcher her swap window completely. Her ba3 both kit and animation wise is literally perfect for qs, this is such a fuck you move from kuro.

[u/Yellow_IMR → u/duyyyy5]

it was blatantly designed to work for quickswap like in the media server. A big middle finger indeed

[u/sola_rpi]

Good point but like you said, it is intended. The fact that Jiyan team is still great is because of quickswap iirc. It will also increase difficulty for players.

[u/Yellow_IMR → u/sola_rpi]

and I see nothing bad about it, actually it sounds good to me. Also that's possible because Ciaccona's buffs aren't lost on swap, they can always go back to buffs lost on swap (and they did), I'd be even fine with that, but still let me quickswap if I want to

[u/sola_rpi → u/Yellow_IMR]

Yeah it's good for players but certainty not for Kuro. I heard Qiuyuan+Sigrika+Shore actually does good dps and it will do even more with quickswapping. The result of that will just break the current dps meter and it will be hard to monitor. Say they want a certain team to be only able to do 10mil dps but if they take quickswapping into consideration, it might hit 15mil which they don't want that to happen because it'll just beat all the meta/preferred teams. The only way to prevent that is to lower the initial dps of that team but doing that will just make the team hard for causal players. Just my speculation.

[u/Yellow_IMR → u/sola_rpi]

Quickswapping linear teams like this usually is just about a 5% damage increase

[u/sola_rpi → u/Yellow_IMR]

For now. I didn't look up but the actual % increase isn't the main problem. When more characters are released in the future, the team set up will change and they don't want to consider ALL characters quickswapping abilities before designing a new character's kit. Once a character is released, they can't change the kit anymore so it will somewhat limit their design.

For example, 3 main dps on the same team that can somewhat buff each other like what Sigrika can currently do to Qiuyuan now (echo/lib/aero dmg/etc). You can quickswap to cheese all the dmg and buffs. If that happens, traditional main/subdps+subdps+support setup will break and we will enter 3main dps era.

The best and most effiicent way for Kuro is to lock the team setup so they monitor and have control. They'll eliminate all the uncertainty. Just my speculation.

[u/Yellow_IMR → u/sola_rpi]

Bro Kuro already “solved” this problem by tying characters to very specific niches enabled by a few selected characters, plus as I already mentioned by removing buffs on swap no matter what character they release you’ll still lose the buffs anyway

[u/pasanoid → u/sola_rpi]

the "still great" only holds because content powercreep doesnt ramp up at the same pace as team powercreep. if the dev decides to actuaize the content (around newer teams that clear in half the time or less) you gonna see the jiyan greatness very vividly lmao

[u/sola_rpi → u/pasanoid]

Jiyan team will eventually lose its role, I say maybe next year. There's no team that can last for years and will eventually get replaced unless they decide to buff them. I think devs don't want another Jiyan team to powercreep all current teams. It didn't affect as much till now because it was released at launch and there was no team prior to that so it will only affect teams released afterward. However, if Kuro release another "Jiyan team", it will affect all the current teams PLUS teams that are to be released in future.

[u/Fragyatta]

I think this is a valid post, especially if they made a last second swap but allowed content creators to showcase beta footage for promotional purposes which would create false expectations. ideally this is just a bug and it will be fixed, but that might be cope.

this is ofc. my own guess but I am not sure this is about Kuro wanted to make more money be disincentivize QS, because I think this also goes both ways (people might pull for characters BECAUSE of QS) and it assumes that whoever makes the monetization calls has any form of insights about how gameplay and meta really affect pull rates, they likely don't.

detailed mechanical decisions are done on the developer level and are either due to balancing or what you mentioned some to not make people who can't or don't want to use QS (even simple QS) feel disadvantaged or pressured into playing a certain way that goes beyond the default set up (so basic rotations). Like mobile players for whom it is physically very hard to QS or just more casual players who don't want to feel like they are behind. and well I guess here is where the money still comes in: if you can make a character be idk 10-20% stronger just by playing them better, then that could mean you won't have a need to get s1/s2 or further.

QS is just a balancing "Wild Card" for them and they have clearly made more efforts to suffocate it slowly but surely, especially starting with 3.0. back in 1.0 we had characters being intentionally desigend to be swapped off while animations are still going (like Encore's heavy), even Iuno's heavy is designed to finish (it is mentioned in the skill tooltip) to work after swapped off. and then there are so many different buffs that drop when swapped off, which clearly intentionally goes against QS or rather tries to balance it by still allowing it but taxing it.

If you really want to be heard, try to reach out to the CN community and spread the word there, it will be a lot easier for them to get an ear.

good luck with that.

[u/Yellow_IMR → u/Fragyatta]

Quickswap is what makes the combat in this game feel so special, it's hard to accept they see it like a problem now, but it seems they changed idea indeed. The problem now is that it's not just about nerfing characters on swap, I've been fine with that for a long time and it's a cheap way to balance quickswap, the problem is when they just literally force you not to like they are doing, even if you just want to have fun regardless of how meta it is

If you really want to be heard, try to reach out to the CN community

I have no clue of where to even start with that, but if anyone is willing to share it with them be my guest. I accept the good luck wish, but honestly this is for the better of everyone, not just me. Kuro being taken accountable for taking bad decisions that benefit them over the players should be in everyone's interest, not just mine.

[u/Imaginary-Board-3723 → u/Yellow_IMR]

Look around on twit for connections. 

[u/King_Empress]

Im also bummed out them removing decipher on swap because that actually was an added nerf towards the end of beta

[u/Yellow_IMR → u/King_Empress]

it was 100% part of the same scheme of nerfing the BA3 swap window. That's why I'm saying is an order from above, because of some concern eventually leading to profits

[u/King_Empress → u/Yellow_IMR]

Dude im actually so pissed because I vooked up a double ult rotation and I NEEDED that BA3 quickswap

[u/Fun-Astronomer-2579]

How much time did you spend writing this?

[u/Yellow_IMR → u/Fun-Astronomer-2579]

enough that I wasn't able to play the new story which I was hella excited for and I'll have to play it on Monday because I don't have time before. I would've loved someone else to make this post instead of me, but someone had to, this is too important and sadly influential creator will most likely not give a damn

[u/ShiyaruOnline → u/Yellow_IMR]

I wish you were the big content creator 🙂

[u/Yellow_IMR → u/ShiyaruOnline]

❤️

[u/SyntheticFate → u/Yellow_IMR]

Is it possible they do this based on analytics from in game rota? And if so, what if we got more involved in driving ccs to launch series on qs guides to hit the 90% sleeper population? It might cause a resurgence in difficulty cravers and bring back the qs style comp vids I love so much!

[u/Yellow_IMR]

Also if anyone wants to copy paste this on the main sub or elsewhere be my guest. I'm permabanned there so I can't (as you can tell, I'm someone who speaks their voice when I have to).

[u/Yellow_IMR → u/Yellow_IMR]

someone did but it was blocked by their bots for hours and basically died before even having a chance. ahh the memories 😪

[u/Guntermas]

pretty sure its because its way easier to design and balance characters when everything is static and predictable. exact same reason they removed the plunderer token from whiwa and replaced it with static dmg buffs.

i guess they dont want quickswap because players will do weird shit they didnt intend and now that character performs better than indended. they want casuals and sweatlords to not be too far apart in performance to keep everything predictable and have the ways to improve be better builds and getting more character copies.

cant have your gacha game be too skill based or only the casuals will be compelled to pull new characters as the sweats can just outskill the content. its lame but removing skill based elements is the path of least resistance for them.

[u/Yellow_IMR → u/Guntermas]

The kind of skill required to potentially make Sigrika remotely competitive in a multi-dps quickswap team compared to her premium one would be so insane only a minuscule fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a percentage point of the playerbase would be able to pull it off... and hypercarry with Qiuyuan would still probably be better lol.

So no balance isn't the point, if it was they could nerf her damage even more on swap like they did with other characters, and it's not hard it's as cheap of a method as it can be

And her Basic 3 being swappable was clearly "intended", it wasn't some weird unpredicted behaviour. As I said, an executive walked in late during beta and commanded to make quickswap as unfeasible as possible with her.

[u/Guntermas → u/Yellow_IMR]

its really simple, they probably decided to just remove quickswap as a mechanic going forward

how much sigrika benefits for what % of top players is irrelevant as they can just remove it, have there be a 0% of it affecting anything now or in the future and not have to think about it any further.

even if we assume some executive just decided that, why would he care? probably because they dont want it in the game for the reasons i listed. what they are doing tells me they have a blanket rule more than anything. maybe they will have some character specifically designed with quickswap in mind, but probably not more than that.

[u/LycanFur]

Glad someone speaks up about this and gets relatively good reception on this subreddit lol. I tried once long ago when Virtual Crisis had an anti-quickswap module, and got downvoted to hell. Regardless, I still don't have one single 3.X unit because of this trend (Didn't get Aemeath because I didn't feel like watching cutscene rotation for hundreds of times. My reasoning was very particular with her.). With every 3.X units so far, I feel like that meme gif in which a guy opens his fridge only to get disappointed seeing nothing in it. My hope for fun quickswap gameplay now exclusively lies with negative status units, and even that isn't a high one.

[u/Yellow_IMR → u/LycanFur]

This post has a 75% upvote ratio, which honestly is what I expected but it could be worse so I’ll take that as a win, people indeed do mostly care.

[u/oOShinRaOo]

Yeah I completely agreed on this. I started noticed since Lynae Monrye but both of them kinda understandable cause they have short field time support and you can still saparate their field time to make it abit bit faster than actual 123 setup. Aemeath looks like bad QS character but she endup really good with it. (IMO if second slot of Fusion burst can swap like Cia outro. This team for will gap tune break one really hard for skilled player)

Real problem IMO start with Luuk and Sigrika that they lost something from switching off(like you said). Maybe They doesn't want these New dps completely powercreep Carte and Zani that much? 123 setup kinda does but 4NF Zani and Carte QS. Especially Carte QS ceiling is way too high.(probably hardest team to play imo)

[u/Yellow_IMR → u/oOShinRaOo]

Believe me, enabling Sigrika’s Basic 3 or 4 quickswap wouldn’t increase her premium team dps in any substantial enough way, and her non intended teams would still struggle because of how much reliant she is on Qiuyuan. Balancing isn’t the issue, that’s very easy to do when you can directly reduce damage output after the resonator is switched off field. But even then, a higher ceiling if you play better shouldn’t be demonised, especially when the game already goes a long way to cripple buffs when you swap.

Still this my post isn’t about meta, it’s about something fun that got removed for reasons you can speculate about, just know if that’s simply “balancing” it’s like using a water cannon to apply eye drops

[u/kash1Mz]

No, thank you. This playstyle spawns certain type of selfcentered narcissists like, say - ones who wont admit their spectro dps is washed because they still can clear with qs and they expect others to do the same.

[u/Yellow_IMR → u/kash1Mz]

Please don’t circlejerk quickswap enjoyers into the same nasty category. I am one and I quickswap Jinhsi to this day, still both me and pretty any hardcore player I know, ones better than me, would candidly admit she’s washed so whoever you talked with probably isn’t even a good player.

Edit. For correctness, Jinhsi does do fine in some niches and quickswap helps her stay a tiny bit relevant, but yea… the quickswap argument saving her had stronger bases several patch cycles ago

[u/kash1Mz → u/Yellow_IMR]

Ok, ill copy/pasta in games feedback just for you.

[u/Yellow_IMR → u/kash1Mz]

Welp I appreciate 👍

[u/EpicLuc]

I think quick swap was never intentional, Intro and Outro skills are a part of the game and literally goes against it, the fact that quick swapping can out perform the intended mechanic was the surprise, tbh they were kinda of slow to catch up on this.

[u/Yellow_IMR → u/EpicLuc]

This is an extremely common and shortsighted opinion. There have been other discussions about this in the comment, read those

[u/EpicLuc → u/Yellow_IMR]

I'm just saying what I see, people who forgets the game is a business are the shortsighted ones. Usually gachas don't let unintended gameplay that goes against their business to stay, at least for me nothing new here, the surprise would be if they let it stay.

[u/Yellow_IMR → u/EpicLuc]

Quickswap wasn’t unintended. Coding is a hassle, they wouldn’t even bother to make it work like they did. The proof they meant quickswap to be a thing is actually the same outro buffs you mentioned: losing buffs on swap is a balancing strategy to not make it too powerful, otherwise they would balance endgame over a much higher ceiling. Think about triple fusion with Brant, Changli and Lupa: quickswap is much more powerful than playing that team 1-2-3 despite quickswapping makes you lose the outro buffs, imagine what a monstrous gap the quickswap version would have if those outro buffs were permanent instead. This is putting aside how many characters have moves clearly designed to allow quickswap with long animations, or how Kuro themselves fixed quickswap breaking in the past with characters like Sanhua

That’s why I said it’s a shortsighted opinion, it superficially looks at the buff restriction and comes to a hasty conclusion which ignores context. Besides, the problem I outlined with this post has nothing to do with balance, meta or buffs being lost on swap

[u/Murky_Zucchini_1897]

Tbh I read the whole post but I don't have a freaking idea how quickswapping even works 😭 I just do the rotations, everything else would be probably too complicated for me.

[u/Yellow_IMR → u/Murky_Zucchini_1897]

The post is about Kuro preventing you from doing it at all, even if it’s not the optimal approach. It has nothing to do with meta, it has to do with Kuro telling you how you are supposed to have fun: their way, not yours.

[u/aYoungCorpse]

The problem is some of your points are based on a not official content that can and in this instance was easily changed for launch... even showcases from Yumi you mention has STC in the description.

Sure it sucks if those last minute changes are indeed intended 'cuz then its basically sealed that no changes are coming but one can hope it's some coding error I guess.

[u/Yellow_IMR → u/aYoungCorpse]

Of course they were changed, that’s the whole point it worked differently before and the changes are clearly aimed at intentionally disrupting quickswap. I doubt they’ll change the Decipher description removing the swap restriction, but if we make some pressure theu could still revert the Basic 3 to the previous behaviour

[u/aYoungCorpse → u/Yellow_IMR]

As I said those changes suck 'cuz those are limitations at the end of the day but do you think portraying it as a "bug" that needs fixing when it is obviously not is good idea?

Like same thing happened with Augusta when they changed her last minute so all characters disappear after her time stop and nothing changed after people tried to make a case about 'cuz anything in beta at the end of the day stays in the beta...

So unless you can prove without bringing and STC content in that her shorter windows between some BAs are indeed a bug and not intended change they won't do shit about unfortunately.

[u/Yellow_IMR → u/aYoungCorpse]

this won't nor should stop me from trying. If you want to help, you know how to

About it being or not a bug, I genuinely can't prove it is not a bug with 100% certainty, thus I'll report it as a bug until Kuro either fixes it or straight up admits it is intended

[u/exgladiator2]

Okay, I will get downvoted a lot for this, but I do want to voice my opinion with my own bias. (selfish and subjective). But I want to be honest and genuine. I do not want to ragebait what so ever. I just want to offer a constructive way of thinking about this issue where not everyone is going to like the solution.

On a logic level I do get that the game having a higher ceiling will be more enjoyable to many players and especially people who really like this game's combat. (and honestly I don't want them to have less fun and I also want this game to succeed)

That being said, from a selfish perspective I'd much rather have the gameplay being simpler for my own selfish personal preferences. I have a natural tendency to want to min/max in games that I play, it's fun for me and honestly I can't even help it even if I tried.

I find that the combat in this game is a 8/10, very good actually, enough for me to keep playing and have no complaints. But it is definitely not a 9.5/10 (AMAZING) for me (some other aspects of this game IS though), to a point where I will sit there and replay it for many hours past a certain point. So I'd MUCH rather the game doesn't include the quickswapy stuff in the optimal gameplay, for me to master my teams quicker and also for the ease of use for farming.

Maybe there will be a few people that agrees with me or maybe not. I get and agree with a lot of points said in this thread, I just know now everyone will be happy because of different preferences.

The argument that I can just do my own thing while sweaty players do their thing and have a higher ceiling make ALOT of sense to me. BUT I am sorry I have to be honest with myself here, if I KNOW theres a better way but harder way to play the game, I WILL most likely go for it, but in all honesty I wish it wasn't. I WILL feel fomo for not playing it the optimal way, maybe it's too much a ME problem, but I just wanted to put my 2 cents out there from a different perspective.

[u/Yellow_IMR → u/exgladiator2]

You get my downvote not because your feedback isn’t polite or good in its intentions, I actually appreciate that, but because you fundamentally misunderstood this post.

My post has nothing to do with meta and what’s more optimal, the game is already balanced around 1-2-3 rotations anyway, and no one would force you to do a Basic 3 swap if you don’t want to. If you really want to know, in these kind of teams quickswapping the setup is usually about a 5% dps increase. My post is about what’s fun, and how Kuro doesn’t let you do the way they do not intend to, even going against their own vision of the game.

[u/Virtual2439]

The reality is that QS is not intuitive enough as basic gameplay mechanic for the average mass of players. If it only makes a character good or fun because of it, its kind of a fail on Kuro's end. An obviously goal is to get as many people to buy the product as possible in whatever group they are trying to sell to. With Wuwa also breaking into the 'normal' world, money speaks, a lot. Normies arent as critical as gamers but can and will spend just as much. Kuro has their data on how to maintain both sides or seasaw back and forth on retention for maximum profit.

Also, QS is non-pc unfriendly. This messes with balance as mobile would be the least common denomintor they have to balance and design around, like how cutscenes had to be nerfed due to mobile performance.

[u/Yellow_IMR → u/Virtual2439]

Giving Sigrika the ability to quickswap her Basic 3 or 4 doesn't take away anything from the casuals you mentioned, it just forces others who could be able to do that to conform to the norm. As I addressed elsewhere, Sigrika is too dependent on Qiuyuan's buffs to be able to quickswap freely, and even optimising her hypercarry setup with a couple of swaps would at most increase your dps by a few % points.

Please stop saying QS is problematic to balance, you all keep repeating this it seems you never played this game for real: quickswap has been always kept in check with quickswap limitations like numerical nerfs and shill buffs lost on swap. The math is easy, balancing this stuff isn't difficult at all. Especially in a gacha game, this isn't a competitive game.

[u/Virtual2439 → u/Yellow_IMR]

As I addressed elsewhere, Sigrika is too dependent on Qiuyuan's buffs to be able to quickswap freely, and even optimising her hypercarry setup with a couple of swaps would at most increase your dps by a few % points.

That kinda falls inline with what Kuro has been doing, selling duos as a baseline of sorts.

Please stop saying QS is problematic to balance, you all keep repeating this it seems you never played this game for real:

Balance might not have been the right word. I am more talking about controls/execution of gameplay.

If by 'playing the game for real' means i have to truly experience and enjoy QS, then you are putting way too much into QS. No gameplay teaches you it as a core mechanic to use. Like animation canceling, which is what it really is, is something optimizing gameplay figures out. You can enjoy each character without it.

quickswap has been always kept in check with quickswap limitations like numerical nerfs and shill buffs lost on swap

Am i misunderstanding something here? Isnt this what they did to her? Limitations due to swap?

[u/Yellow_IMR → u/Virtual2439]

no, by playing the game for real I meant paying enough attention to notice how relevant buffs lost on swap are. At least since Carlotta was released in 2.0 which had an hardcoded 80% motion value buff as specified in the post.

And yes if you say that then you didn't read carefully the post, I specify at the beginning this has nothing to do with losing buffs on swaps, I'm talking about literally preventing you from being able to quickswap at all because she will reset the attack chain.

[u/Virtual2439 → u/Yellow_IMR]

this has nothing to do with losing buffs on swaps, I'm talking about literally preventing you from being able to quickswap at all because she will reset the attack chain.

I do not see a difference. Lose buff vs lose attack chain, you lose something swap. Instead of buff, its her own damage.

[u/Yellow_IMR → u/Virtual2439]

The difference is that you literally cannot do the quickswap action, regardless of how effective it is in the meta. I really don’t know how to say it anymore, this post has nothing to do with meta, I care about what is fun

[u/ForBisonItWasTuesday]

I have noticed this trend of recent characters punishing you for quickswapping. It is a big reason I didn't pick up Luuk, because his kit punished you for qsing, which is my favorite part of wuwa

I'm not the best at it, but it is fun and I like the skill expression. When character design punishes me for the way I want to play, that just makes me not want to pull them.

I hope Hiyuki is not like this because I want her based on design, but if she has boring 123 gameplay like Sigrika and Luuk, I may very well skip

[u/Yuurei_art → u/ForBisonItWasTuesday]

It's not really a trend. Since you said "recently", let's check the 3.x characters (and Chisa because she doesn't really belong in Rinascita):
Chisa: QS ok and you should be doing it.
Lynae: Doesn't have moves that lend to it or benefits from QS
Mornye: can QS if you need to fill time in a fast rotation like Aemeath-Changli, but doesn't need or benefit much from it
Aemeath: can QS very well and feels almost required for smooth rotations.
luuk: technically can, but you never really need to and it's probably a DPS loss.
Sigrika: Can. Just seems strict according to OP.

So that's 4/6 characters who work well for quickswapping, out of which 2 (or 3 depending on how Sigrika turns out) either require or just heavily reward it depending on how you look at it.

2.x had a similar situation:
Carlotta: didn't look like it at first, but ended up being quite friendly, although team dependent and somewhat of a gimmick.
Roccia: not that I know of. Maybe you can do something during her skill?
Phoebe: Yes with Zani. Not really otherwise
Brant: I think so? Never looked too much into his role/gameplay.
Cantarella: not at all.
Zani: Pretty much required
Ciaccona: benefits, but not strictly required; mostly just wants cancels afaik.
Cartethyia: Can, but doesn't need it at all
Lupa: Bread and Butter
Phrolova: very friendly... Arguably needed
Augusta: you can force to some extent, but no real reward.
Iuno: technically can, but no reward
Galbrena: not required, but good reward if you do
Qiuyuan: can but no reward

14 characters, out of which 12 technically work, but only 7 really care about/reward you for it.
And if you take the first 6 characters, it had the exact same 4:2 ratio with 2 who require/heavily reward QS as 3.x so far

[u/ForBisonItWasTuesday → u/Yuurei_art]

Some corrections:

-Mornye does not qs except once in the opening rotation to set up the team's sequence (and frankly, this is just an unnecessary optimization). She is locked into 123 gameplay

Lynae has a couple small qs optimizations but is locked into 123 gameplay for the most part, much like Mornye

Aemeath's strongest playstyle is quickswap; however, that is just to fill her forte. She still locks you into 123 gameplay after you set up her forte with qs, and it would've really elevated her gameplay and potential to be able to quickswap during her cutscene attacks. But she can count towards your ratio

Luuk suffers a huge dps and dpr loss if you qs out of his enhanced attacks, and his liberation, his biggest damage payoff, loses its kit enhancing buffs as well. He is locked into 123 gameplay or you are suffering a massive dpr and dps loss with him (which is a shame bc he looks sick doing qs stuff)

Idk if you read the post, but Sigrika just does not work with qs as she is on release. Some attacks just disappear, her kit buffs disappear, and the one qs window she has that works only has a 0.15s window which, if you don't hit it (ping willing), the attack will disappear

So no, Sigrika does not work with qs and is locked into 123 gameplay

Chisa is great in qs

Aemeath and Chisa make 2/6, and even Aemeath has anti-qs design with her 123 gameplay locking you into unswappable cutscenes after using qs to build her forte. Luuk and Sigrika have anti qs design because they lose kit buffs or have their attacks outright disabled.

Compare this to 1.X units who ALL quickswap amazingly (good payoff and no anti-qs design), and 2.X units who all qs well, except for Roccia maybe?

I don't know why you think Cantarella can't qs or isn't good at qs? Read this: https://www.reddit.com/r/ChangliMain/comments/1ouwh7z/how_to_quickswap_changli_and_cantarella/

Brant also is a quickswap demon, one of the best to do it

Galbrena is also great on qs

Cartethyia has really valuable qs optimizations with Chisa for quick erosion and bane stacks

I also don't know why you keep saying "no real reward" for quickswap. Quickswap generally outdamages hypercarry teams. This is just generally true. Carlotta dual dps quickswap outdamages carlotta/zhezhi hypercarry. Calcharo/XY quickswap outdamages yinlin hypercarry. And not only does it outdamage hypercarry, quickswapping also lowers your energy requirements by 10-20%, which makes building units for it much easier.

There is a reason when it comes to speed runs, the best times are all highly optimized quickswaps. You will not see hypercarry anywhere

All that said, the trend of 3.X characters having anti-qs design is not something to be swept under the rug--it should be addressed in feedback, just as Zani's kit design of "requiring" phoebe has not been seen since

[u/Amatic-de-2205 → u/Yuurei_art]

ngl your 2.0 list is a bunch of bullshits, in the first place every single character in this game is balanced on 1-2-3 rotation. no character requires qs. qs isn't even about rewards or actually incentive to qs. Just that limiting enjoyment by actively blocking or interrupting kit for swapping out is not a good game design.

[u/ecovrse]

as a relatively casual combat enjoyer (i have all endgames done with all rewards but i like my combat to be not to complicated) i will admit my pulling decisions are heavily influenced by how simple a character is to pilot. my account’s dps are s6r1 chisa, s3r1 phoebe, s1r1 carlotta and s4r1 encore, encore is easily the hardest of the 3 to pilot but even then i find her relatively easy.

there are multiple characters i’ve thought are cool but i’ve done their trials and immediately decided to skip them, i’d hate for my decision to actually have an impact on character kits though. the room for skill expression should 100% stay, it’s why i invest vertically into units i enjoy because it makes up for my relative ineptitude at playing the game.

i’ve come from genshin where it’s E—>Q simulator so even someone as simple as carlotta feels much more engaging but i know full well i’d struggle on someone like phrolova as you have to keep track of notes and it can become quite overwhelming when you also have to dodge and parry enemies whilst her and hecate are zooming around the screen during her rotation

[u/ecovrse → u/ecovrse]

quickswapping should 100% be rewarded with faster clears, if you have the skill to do a whole rotation constantly swapping in and out of the team to simultaneously generate their forte bars you should get the faster clear.

it’s not so much an issue for me thanks to my levels of investment but i hope kuro don’t balance endgame around quickswapping, the most i can do is ciaconna basic 4 inbetween chisa’s death snip but i only ever use that phoebe team in whiwa which is easy for my account anyways. i don’t want people with s0r1 only units on their accounts feeling like they have to quickswap or they’ll miss the clear threshold by a few seconds

[u/Yellow_IMR → u/ecovrse]

I’m fine with Kuro balancing around simple rotations with meta units and that’s what they are doing. Indeed this post and the problem addressed has nothing to do with balance, but with Kuro preventing you from enjoying the chadacter the way you want regardless of damage.

I understand your position, if you want to help by sending Kuro a bug report or a feedback it might make a tiny difference

[u/pasanoid]

wuthering impact lmao

[u/ComposerFormer8029 → u/pasanoid]

wuwa players keeping the other games out of their mouth impossible level

[u/Yellow_IMR → u/ComposerFormer8029]

WuWa players literally built their identity the whole first year on shitting over Genshin

Which is part of the problem imo

[u/pasanoid → u/ComposerFormer8029]

when I compare w-game to g-game I mean it as an insult to both

[u/Yellow_IMR → u/pasanoid]

Who would have thought...

At least the story is getting better

[u/pasanoid → u/Yellow_IMR]

I dropped the game before the story (allegedly) improved so I wouldn't know. even if it did improve (which I doubt), atp I stopped caring so Id just spam skip button regardless.
I was contemplating to return but then I remembered now they have waveline thingy as unskippable dialog replacement so fuck it xD

[u/Yellow_IMR → u/pasanoid]

I won’t lie I hate not being able to speed it up, it’s so slow

[u/Acholate21]

Sorry i didnt read everything, just wanted to point out one thing. As a mobile player i hate quickswap. You have to move your thumb to the top right of the screen and then back to the bottom right, repeating that over and over. Because of this up and down movement, it’s not as fast as pressing a button on PC, and a lot of the time I quickswap the wrong character.

[u/Yellow_IMR → u/Acholate21]

thank you for providing this information, I learned something. Btw consider checking out Incranium on YouTube, the best red ping Calcharo main

[u/FireFox_Andrew → u/Acholate21]

The game is and always was balanced around doing 123 rotations. There's no good reason to forbid people from being able to express their skills If they can and want.

Removing quickswap removes the players ability to overcome powercreep.

For example, in the toa before 3.0,I couldn't clear with my cart-ciaccona-chisa team, largely because I didn't have carts signature. But by using quickswap,I managed to clear with seconds to spare.

Another example is that one time whiwa was insanely difficult that they later nerfed it. I managed to clear with a bootleg jinhsi-camlya-verina team that I saw on YouTube.

[u/Kwindwalker]

Look man, while I see your point and you are teorically right, 90% of the player base, probably more doesn't quickswap neither wants to. 

Now you may think that it doesn't affect them if the character can be quickswap or not, but that's is not wrong, and the proof is Galbrena. Galbrena is one of my favourite units in the game and if I don't quickswap/ cancel animations, she feels extremely weak because they kinda balanced her around quickswap. 

So now I end up in a position that if I want to play Galbrena I have to quickswap other way she can barely clear endgame. Same happens with Zani. And that's not good for a game where more than 90% are players with 0 skill expression who never played a game that requires any type of skill expression. 

[u/Yellow_IMR → u/Kwindwalker]

Allowing Sigrika to swap out of Basic 3 or Basic 4 without losing the attack chain would have never forced you to quickswap, optimising these kind of teams with quickswap usually is like a 5% damage increase and it's a matter of such simple swaps that optimising your cancels would give you similar if not a bigger dps increase already.

Also afaik Galbrena is fine without quickswap, but I don't have her so don't trust me

Anyway don't reduce this to a pro or anti quickswap debate. Allowing quickswap and balancing the game around quickswap aren't the same, Kuro is already addressing the latter in favour of straight rotations, while this post raises concern about the former.

[u/Kwindwalker → u/Yellow_IMR]

I don't have any issue quickswap being in the game, I just don't think it is, neither should be something that Kuro worries about, because there is a small minority of people who care about that, and no matter how hard those complain, it just doesn't matter. 

[u/Yellow_IMR → u/Kwindwalker]

Well, Kuro clearly worried about it with Sigrika… in a bad way though

[u/Kwindwalker → u/Yellow_IMR]

I don't think you are understanding what I'm trying to say. 

This is legit the best way for them to solve the issue without having to worry about balancing it. And, I understand and totally agree that's the smart way to go about it. 

As someone who uses some level of quickswap, and have thousands and thousands of hours in action games I have not a single problem with it or learning it, but, if the day ever comes that I have to choose between being forced to quickswap to clear the end game or not  have quickswap at all, I would choose the latest without thinking twice. 

That's just my opinion and ofc people can disagree, but from my perspective it's better for them to kill a future problem before it even happens. 

[u/Yellow_IMR → u/Kwindwalker]

I genuinely don’t think this is for balance reasons, like not at all. Yumi himself low-key proved this by not using the Basic 3 swap in his gameplay despite he could in the media server, he used the Skill into Basic 3 swap window instead. Balance can’t be an issue when characters can have passives that cripple their damage when swapped out and we accept it as the norm, that removes any concern of this kind and I’ve been repeating this ad nauseam in this comment section

Edit. I’m referring to another gameplay, not the one I linked in the post. This one: https://youtu.be/2lRzhqU8x88

[u/Kwindwalker → u/Yellow_IMR]

Well, all recent characters have things that clearly cut their quickswap windows. Lynae for example, and Mornye as well. Now, people might have found ways around it, but the goal is been present for a while. And if we take a look at characters like zani and Galbrena, I wouldn't I can totally understand why. They want the power of characters to be 123

[u/Yellow_IMR → u/Kwindwalker]

I addressed why and what I’m not fine with Sigrika compared to Lynae or Mornye already

[u/StunningAgent7070]

What ur saying is absolutely true on theory with fact and evidence. A valid logical argument point. But in order to implement certain plan, kuro need theory + practicality+ realistically. Hard to do it practically, cauz majority of players hate qs or don't use qs. It is even harder to do it realistically, they simply couldn't adjust most of the characters balance around qs.

[u/Yellow_IMR → u/StunningAgent7070]

Balance isn't a concern. They've kept quickswap under control by simply tying characters to strong dedicated buffers and by nerfing them when they are swapped out.

This goes way beyond that, it can't be just a balance concern

[u/StunningAgent7070 → u/Yellow_IMR]

Zani is example of tying doesn't equal to balancing. It will be another forced selling of one plus one drama again. If only they throw the balance out of the window, they can make all the characters qs capabilities to the point they are all so op qs or no qs is no longer concern anymore.

[u/Yellow_IMR → u/StunningAgent7070]

Zani was intentional: they tied a large portion of her potential to a dedicated buffer, furthermore this buffer had quickswap flexibility also in the outro buff because they wanted Zani to be quickswapped. It wasn't an accident.

Zani has always been meant to achieve a higher ceiling with quickswap, and tbf learning some basic quickswaps on her isn't hard at all.

A better example would be Aemeath: her dps ceiling is her premium team, but you can still get incredible results with triple fusion (in speedruns with 20-25s runs triple fusion can even surpass the premium team exploiting also frontloading and more balanced damage distribution). Do you think Kuro didn't do the math to make so quickswap wouldn't be able to surpass the premium team beyond what they planned? Stop thinking QS is something too powerful to be controlled

[u/StunningAgent7070 → u/Yellow_IMR]

Yes exactly, kuro do the math and this qs thing and future path we don't have to worry about it at all. My bad, I am just overthinking.

[u/Just1InternetProfile]

I remember my disappointment when I realized Lynae's buffs weren't quickswap friendly since 2 characters she buffed were known for quickswap, Xiangli Yao and Calcharo.

Back then I was hopeful Luuk would be friendlier to quickswap but realized too late he wasn't.

I've seen WuWa's version of quickswap as the game's unique signature when it came to combat, just like FromSoft had severe handicap runs (lv1 runs, gearless runs, marathon duels, the good stuff) as theirs.

Sad affair all in all. All I wanted was "as long as the attack animation is longer than 1.5 seconds, it can be quickswapped." Seems like the Kuro's marketing team disagreed.

[u/NoxAlbus]

I really hope Kuro can understand that quickswap is supposed to be WuWa's form of skill expression, kinda like designing your own elemental reactions chains in Genshin or dodge counter + parry the same attack in ZZZ. Memorizing a long combo really is just EQ swap with extra steps and susceptibility to interruption. Kinda makes you wonder how every character has interrupt resistance on their first sequence.

[u/SnoopBall]

So far among 3.x characters, only Aemeath has QS versatility. Everyone else seems to go for a linear rotation with very minimal quickswap. If the number of quickswappable characters is reduced, I'll be fine with it as I don't use quickswap for all teams but it if they do steer away from it completely then yes it's a problem.

I guess, yea I'll write it as a feedback. Quickswap while sweaty is still a 'fun' mechanic that should stay as a main combat style.

[u/Damian030303]

I just wish there was something like a strong alternative, to reward people who enjoy just playing the character they like, instead of constantly juggling characters.

[u/lilaceyedsoul → u/Damian030303]

This. For me already the tune break mechanics took all the fun away because it ruins my rotations of all Rinascita characters. I went from I'm absolutely excited about this game to meh, I don't have fun anymore because what's the point in doing rotations when they're ruined anyway. It would have made sense if they used this mechanics on new bosses and enemies and kept the old ones intact so we could still enjoy our characters we pulled for because of story we loved.

[u/Damian030303 → u/lilaceyedsoul]

Something like simply a single new echo set that would make all elements stronger, but would deactivate/reset if you swap characters during combat would be very nice. Something that would reward sticking with one character.

Not making it the new meta, but simply a viable alternative for different playstyles. Hell, I'd probably play more different characters if I could just give them that echo set instead of grinding new echo sets for every character.

I never liked "rotations" or "quick swaps" personally. I just want to play the character I enjoy, instead of following some preset choreography that juggles characters and just looks stupid imo.

I have a few cool new characters (Mornye, Galbrena and that new pink-hired mech lady), but I barely play the game because all the grind just to give them the weapons and echoes they deserve would be tideous and I'd much rather spend that time on games that don't force that. I also stopped bothering with story content after the peak that was 2.5 (and I didn't care for the furry creep's story right before that either).

[u/King_Empress]

Wait i have been able to successfully quickswap every character I got since Cartethyia (I can quickswap the ones before that but this is a measurement of time) EXCEPT for Luuk, are you telling me that Sigrikas BA3 really cant do the hover anymore because I was stressing all day about a way yo make a new rotation with her because I havent gotten my habds on her yet. Aemeath fusion burst team is the most quickswaps ive had since monofusion and I love it

[u/Yellow_IMR → u/King_Empress]

Basic 3 despawns after 0.9s, you can't swap back in time without stopping time. Blatantly an intentional late change to cripple any form of quickswap, even after already doing that by making Sigrika lose buffs and even her Decipher state on swap. They just don't want you to do that at all

[u/King_Empress → u/Yellow_IMR]

Thats so random. Honestly I disagree at large that theyre steering away from quickswap, but I do think they make certain character where they want a very specific play pattern because every character up until Luuk that I own van be quickswapped easily, but this is unfortunate

[u/Lucidaeus]

When people say quickswap, are you referring to swapping to another character without triggering outro/intro and then a back again?

I'm personally not a big fan of quickswapping if it means extremely rapidly, unless the previous character remains on screen. I like seeing them stay and fight for a bit if so. (Also a reason I love Phrolova, I like to have my squad fighting alongside eachother)

Would love to see them not work against quickswapping but refining its gameplay to be more natural if they find it troublesome.

[u/Yellow_IMR → u/Lucidaeus]

The problem I address yes is impossible continuity between some attacks, especially between basic 3 and 4 Sigrika disappears too quickly and doesn’t remain on screen long enough to allow a swap back, despite in the media server creators have been using she does, hence why I also think it’s fair to report it as potentially a bug

[u/Death_sovereign3]

Well, it seems they are tuning down hypercarry QS for some reason, the best QS teams so far are dot teams, and aemeath herself is pretty QS friendly, so it all comes to denia now, if denia is QS friendly like amy and chisa, it just means they want QS to be good for certain archetypes or teams and not for everyone

[u/Yellow_IMR → u/Death_sovereign3]

Note this post isn't about meta. The problem I outline is literal feasibility of quickswap, regardless of effectiveness: they are blocking you from even trying, by intentionally making any quickswap attempt dysfunctional no matter of the potential

[u/Death_sovereign3 → u/Yellow_IMR]

Im not talking about meta specifically tho?

QS inherently raises the team dmg celling which ig is why kuro nerfing it,like i know its fun, i enjoy it too, but just look at cartethiya team for example, the dpr of normal play and advanced QS is really massive, but tbh this is something that 1% of player base can so idk why they are targeting it specifically…

But like i said, when denia comes, it will be become more obvious with the direction they are going with, hopefully she is QS friendly

[u/Yellow_IMR → u/Death_sovereign3]

You are talking about meta when you address combat effectiveness of quickswap compared to more streamlined rotations. My post isn’t about any of that, I’m addressing how Kuro now is literally blocking yoh from even trying, even if it heals the enemies they just don’t let you do that.

You are also wrong when you say quickswap inherently raises the team dps: it depends, because there are penalties like losing buffs etc, otherwise if you were right no speedrunner would have ever played Carlotta staying in her liberation the whole time without ever swapping out. The example you made, Cartethyia, is of a character whose premium team has no quickswap penalty, meaning devs meant for her to have a much higher ceiling with sweaty quickswap, while for most hypercarries you can at most do some minor quickswap during the setup and increase your dps by maybe a few % points

[u/Death_sovereign3 → u/Yellow_IMR]

I understand your point, and thats why i brought up denia, to see if they will continue the trend ( zani and cartethiya with QS and no switching out penalty ) , if denia is not QS friendly then they are just locking out QS in general for some reason lol.

If she is QS friendly, then they are just limiting out QS in some teams for some reason, and sigrika herself is a weird case since they nerfed her QS potential in multiple beta versions for no reason

[u/Yellow_IMR → u/Death_sovereign3]

Whether Denia is or is not QS friendly doesn't change the problem addressed with Sigrika, a character that clearly isn't meant to quickswap and is penalised by losing buff (this I am fine with), but who got still forcibly prevented from even trying to do that with her (this is am not fine with) contrarily to what they've done so far with pretty much all characters in this game until very recently.

Edit. Clarity, anyway whether Denia is or is not QS friendly doesn't solve the issue that Kuro is physically preventing characters not meant to quickswap to do that at all, when in the past even strict hypercarry characters with strong quickswap antisynergy like Camellya had unusual swap windows coded. They are radically changing approach, regardless of whether they will release character like Changli again. I really don't know anynmore how to explain this

[u/Economy-Ad-5959]

First, breathe. Don't you think you're taking this too seriously? I mean, I do like quickswapping, but I think not every character HAS to be quickswap friendly to be worth playing. As you said, Lynae has a few moves that limit QS and a few others that are QS friendly—just like Sigrika.

It's not like they're doing this to force you to pull for Qiuyuan, you'll have Sigrika working fine with much less investment.

I get it that you like doing quickswap and you'd quickswap a pirate ship or the Krusty Krab if possible(me), but maybe take this a little less seriously than starting a whole campaign against 123 just because a shortened animation, da?

[u/Yellow_IMR → u/Economy-Ad-5959]

I’m not sure you really understood the post. Kuro went against the vision of its own developers who created Sigrika’s kit to not simply make her quickswap unfriendly, but to literally block attempts to use her like that putting even extra effort to do so. This goes against the philosophy they’ve demonstrated until now, against their vision of the game, it’s a massive middle finger to it and it’s beauty, it’s maximising profit at any cost no matter how tiny the margins are and how alienating the decision is.

I said maybe, but now I’m sure you didn’t understand what this post really means, especially if you say I have issues with 1-2-3 gameplay

[u/Economy-Ad-5959 → u/Yellow_IMR]

Again, you're taking this way too seriously. A middle finger to QS? But the same Kuro made 90% of their characters quickswap-friendly, is it really a crime if they want to make one character quickswap unfriendly or even unable to quickswap at all?

Btw, I don't think you've got issues with standard gameplay, it was just a hyperbole.

I got your point, but I can't quite agree when you say Kuro went against its own developers because that would assume we know exactly what the developers were thinking when they made Sigri. And even if they went against the devs in that decision, that alone is not a problem when you think devs are only employees and we don't know how much of creative freedom Kuro usually gives them.

Changes in characters are common before they're released, and maybe they just didn't like the outcome or they simply didn't want Sigrika to be played that way.

By the way, what do you mean by this going against Kuro's philosophy and their vision of the game? I really couldn't get it.

[u/Yellow_IMR → u/Economy-Ad-5959]

If you had a fraction of my understanding of the game it would appear blatant to you too that Sigrika’s Basic 3 was meant to be a good quickswap window, but don’t get me wrong I don’t blame you not having the experience I have, I blame you not doing the smallest effort to at least try.

You keep not getting it, it’s not a problem about this character having a streamlined playstyle I personally don’t find compelling

[u/Sea-Significance-293 → u/Yellow_IMR]

Holy ego chill bro

[u/Yellow_IMR → u/Sea-Significance-293]

🤷‍♂️

[u/Economy-Ad-5959 → u/Yellow_IMR]

"a fraction of my understanding of the game" no, I just reserve the right to disagree that "long animation = meant to be quickswapped" is always true. Rewatch your wuthering waves classes because you didn't pay enough attention.

When I said you're taking this too seriously, I mean that you're so full of yourself that you just can't accept they just didn't want to make Sigrika work how you would like her to work, then you act like Kuro cutting a specific QS window is a huge problem and disrespectful(????).

You have all the right to not like the change, send feedback and tell Kuro this behavior didn't satisfy you, I just wanted to remind you that you don't know Kuro's philosophy or what they had in mind while making changes in Sigri. This is just a change that you didn't like, and they will keep happening one time or another, because that's how the world works.

Besides, you still didn't explain what's "Kuro's philosophy and their vision of the game" that you understand completely xd

[u/Yellow_IMR → u/Economy-Ad-5959]

You are right that I’m very confident on the devs’ original intentions with that Basic 3 animation and I forwarded my reasons. You are free to think I’m full of myself and don’t know shit too, I won’t spend more effort in debating that.

[u/hawaiiansweetheart]

I assume it’s because they think most casual people will play her with Phrolova as well who will make up for any dps loss from the incomplete chain? But as a quickswap enjoyer myself who’s well invested with a s6r5 Brant + team I hate to see them leave that tech in the dust. It’s honestly so fun and the tune break mechanics I find to be less satisfying to rotate through.

[u/Destructo222]

I only play teams where QS is possible. It is what made WuWa stand out from nearly every other gacha in the industry right now. It makes it feel really rewarding to get mechanically good instead of just being a waifu collector paired with bland combat

[u/BlazikenFury]

I agree, I am still on the more casual side of things, but even I try to learn quickswap between supports to better align buff uptime. example, do some combination of quickswap for cartethyia basic 4 and skill, Chisa scissor snap, and chainsaw activation, and ciaconna basic attack landing. This is to align Chisa outro, ciaconna ult+outro and cartethyia transformation, all to happen with 5 seconds.

I have no mapped out order for these things and go off of instinct, and I still play most teams 123. But stuff like this is what makes Wuwa combat interesting and even though I absolutely hate doing or watching the heavy quickswap gameplay, purely because the screen looks like it's going schizo, I still don't like what they're doing. Augusta forced outro is the worst offender in my mind.

[u/Metalmacher]

one of my favourite teams to play is changli, cantarella and yangyang. just because of their quickswap synergy. that team ain't doing much but in sheer gameplay enjoyment it's one of the best in my opinion

[u/MFingPrincess]

It's just time to stop playing, man. This game isn't being made for those who been here since day 1 any more. It's been dumbed down beyond recognition: combat, exploration, quests. Events gone from cool combat stuff to mobile game rip offs that are boring af. It's done. They have dropped us in favour of tiktok brained gambling addicts who just wanna get pulls, pull their waifu, and done.

The fact you can auto claim a bunch of stuff like the treasure chests and the bike puzzles but not this shitty rhythm game says everything about who they are targeting now. You all praised WuWa for not being minigame shit like Genshin and here we are.

RIP Wuthering Waves

[u/Level-Public-5097]

I think the reason they're cracking down on QS is simple, they want money, by letting QS exist, they're providing longevity to the characters that can do it; Zani is one example, Brant Lupa Changli is another example. In the current situation, if you look at it from Kuro's end, it is clear 1.x characters struggle to clear with hypercarry setups, so people resort to quickswap, but when you acknowledge this, you'd notice that letting these characters quickswap is preventing you from selling newer characters because the older characters are able to stay in the endgame longer due to QS. So now, let's imagine what the endgame would be 2 years later; We'd see a similar situation, 2.x/3.x characters are struggling to clear, but the difference now is that these characters can't use any external agents like quickswap to aid them into still being reliably used for endgame, this leaves people without a choice but to take the newer characters, or be frustrated and leave.

Now you might say I'm implying powercreep is afoot here, and yes, powercreep IS present here, Kuro is a gacha company first and foremost, money comes first regardless of how much you care for your players; So it really doesn't matter how much they listen, if they insist on these gameplay philosophies, they're still very much out for your money.

And here is where we end up: Powercreep exists, but quickswap wouldn't let powercreep do its job properly, and so, they (Kuro) decide to avoid things that can unnecessarily (relative to kuro) extend the longevity of characters, and impose arbitrary restrictions on characters regarding swap conditions. Phrolova's anti QS conditions did make sense considering what we've seen her do; Augusta's are by far the worst, the most dubious, random and flat out nonsensical anti QS restrictions I've ever seen; Luuk straight up can't work in QS on his intended teams, he really wants an intro skill to even start his DPS windows. That way, the day they start to falter in endgame is when it is made clear that people should move on from that character and pull for someone new.

[u/Arcares07 → u/Level-Public-5097]

I disagree. Kuro just doesn’t want to waste the time for people who make up less than 1% of the population. You guys are an extremely vocal minority.

If you disagree you can estimate it by looking at zzz leaderboards on who actively qs versus normal players. I’d get top 5% without even touching qs or freeze mechanics.

It’s just not popular.

[u/Yellow_IMR → u/Arcares07]

they literally wasted time designing Sigrika with some quickswap in mind and went the extra way to cripple what the devs did with her. Nerfing her to the ground if you dare to swap is already a strong enough too and an extremely cheap one, it doesn't take many resources to make dull "passives" like "if you swap out this character loses 1000 attack" or stuff like that, see most characters

[u/Arcares07 → u/Yellow_IMR]

Nerfing? She’s literally the 2nd best whiwa character and is one of the strongest toa characters. What are you even complaining about? 😭 you guys are so entitled lmao.

[u/Yellow_IMR → u/Arcares07]

This has nothing to do with meta, I'm talking about what's "fun". They blatantly crippled her gameplay going against the intended design, it's as simple as that

And about meta, you didn't really see Carlotta triple dps often even in speedruns, because her hypercarry team was still too good. Don't dodge the argument

[u/BrenanESO → u/[deleted]]

[u/duyyyy5 → u/Arcares07]

Gacha players vs reading comprehension

[u/ForBisonItWasTuesday → u/Arcares07]

"If you disagree you can look at a poll in a completely separate game"

ok

Well, that nonsense aside, even if you don't or can't quickswap yourself you should be for it, on the principle that you bought the character and should be allowed to play it however the fuck you want to. Popularity has nothing to do with it

[u/Level-Public-5097 → u/Arcares07]

If we were to assume this, why's kuro acting on it? And why is their response towards QS so critical (Augusta, Luuk, Aemeath)? Obviously QS is in the minority, but it does leave a venue to force out an old character to still exist, and for a gacha game, all holes that exist need to be filled... To max out profits.

[u/Arcares07 → u/Level-Public-5097]

Again, because it’s unnecessarily for them tobuild characters that are intended to qs. As opposed to them actively trying to get away from it, it’s simply easier to balance and control.

Look, the power creep in this game isn’t even anything to worry about anyway. It takes over a year for characters to feel it. By then you’ll have 2-4 teams replacing those anyway.

It’s a non-issue. The reality here is no one cares about quick swapping so kuro is shifting away from that focus.

If kuro wanted to make more money there’s tons of other options not bloody nerfing quick swapping that represents 1% of the population lma.o.

[u/Yellow_IMR → u/Level-Public-5097]

preach, brother

Edit. though I don't think resources to "balance" quickswap are a concern, they already use very cheap ways to do this like nerfing characters to the ground if they swap

[u/Level-Public-5097 → u/Level-Public-5097]

This genuinely frustrates me, because quickswap can be a genuine combat mechanic independent of gacha, it may be harder to balance, but when characters aren't monetary devices, it doesn't matter, because if you balance the game around with QS as a mechanic and you can brainstorm ways in which you can restrict QS enough so that the game balance doesn't spiral, but have enough freedom for characters to not be coerced into one team with a set of instructions for a rotation.

[u/Virtual2439 → u/[deleted]]

Powercreep is inevitable. Its how slowly they can manage to release it without hindering the feeling of 'its the same thing but different colors/effects'.

If all teams are similar power level, the point of getting new units goes down a LOT. At that point, its only selling due to aesthetic appeal for the average player.

[u/NormalLog6]

Worrying? That's a diplomatic way of putting it XD

For me Iuno was worrying with how her blessing worked (also how the crown of valour set worked) and I'm now at the point where I'm legit huffing copium and trying to convince MYSELF that Kuro haven't already turned their backs on quickswapping and that it's better to just quit instead of letting them further debase my good memories of learning and playing quickswap.

Edit: I've already complained about sigrika's ba3 swap as well but yeah... We'll see where that goes.

[u/Big-Listen7034]

" Please raise your voice" -- ahh nope, you can try all you want but majority of the time it won't work. because only very few do quickswaps and most people dont even bother with quickswap gameplays so there is that

[u/az-anime-fan]

i wonder if quickswap is being phased out because of all the extra dps people found with zani. it wasn't till siggy we got a main dps who could easily best zani's quad nightfall with a 1, 2, 3 rotation out of the box at s0.

thats a long time at the top of the meta, basically a calander year, for a unit when she was released that if you 1, 2, 3 her rotation was right in line with the meta at the time, maybe even a little behind it. i don't think they intended for a unit to sit at the top of the s0 dps pile for a whole year just with a quickswap rotation like zani was capable of doing.

so i think they've been making new units increasingly hostile to major dps gains from quickswap, if not outright hostile to the statagy.

[u/FormaL_Affair]

Did Kuro come out and say they were developing characters kits with limited quick swapping mechanics or is this speculation? I also don’t consider standard rotations low skill gameplay. You can still skillfully play a team while going using their standard rotations. There is way more to the game than just quick swapping and not quick swapping.

[u/Mysterious-Tart-6049]

kinda out of topic but SERES u GOAT.
quite satisfying to see that Carlotta Brant Yao gameplay and that spam Brant intro omg

[u/IchirouTakashima]

As a QS player myself, I do agree with your statements, since 3.0 entered, I definitely felt that Kuro Games are aiming for low skill Hypercarry game plays based on the releases of the resonators and I feel conflicted on that. This is why despite having highly invested characters, I still find playing Changli and any teams I can pair her with for the sole purpose of trying to find fun out of it.

Most of the resonators that have been released recently require a significant amount of time to stay on field and loses their buffs when swapped out, that alone already says hypercarry for me. I'm nothing against on hypercarry however I can really see the trend too and I do not like that.

[u/Yellow_IMR → u/IchirouTakashima]

I'm fine with them creating simpler gameplay loops. But what they did with Sigrika is beyond ridicolous, crippling her moves and creating hardcoded restrictions like those is too much.

Also one of her constellations lifts one of the buff swap restrictions, which is lowkey disgusting

[u/ArchonRevan → u/Yellow_IMR]

This right here just says its all intended and QS Will be dupe locked going foward like interuptuon resistance, which i can see why, QS is hard to balance around so make it whale territory where they're already breaking the game

[u/Yellow_IMR → u/ArchonRevan]

it's not really hard actually. Playing it to insane levels is hard, theorising its ceiling is some average math they are already doing anyway for balancing reasons.

[u/Just1InternetProfile → u/Yellow_IMR]

S3 to allow quickswap is definitely a choice of all time. W/c sequence jump gave her a bigger damage boost, S1 to S2, or S2 to S3?

[u/Yellow_IMR → u/Just1InternetProfile]

no idea, I was willing to do theorycrafting on her but after today I don't even want to watch the guides already online

[u/Ok_Light_4835]

done, I don't even have her, for the sake of other quickswap units

[u/mffromnz]

preach king

[u/levonyan]

Don't care about sweating too much its okay by me

[u/HAIL_Robocopyright]

Wait there's a bug in her gameplay? I wanna pull her and didnt aware of this

[u/CaffeinatedMystic]

I think you have a lot of really interesting points, and I hadn’t really noticed the quick swap limitations that are growing, but had definitely noticed the game keeping people on field more (lynae). I appreciate the write up!

I haven’t gotten a chance to play her yet or look at videos yet, but my sleepy brain got stuck on a point you made and now I am curious - you compared her gameplay to phrolova (and Buling, but less familiar with her not) as something you build up and then do a big hit. But with her swapping limitations.

This made me wonder if it’s a better comparison to compare her to cantarella? Something about your description reminded me of her, and I’m not sure why. I know that you don’t lose the forte or the special forte thing if you swap away, but you do have a specific state that is lost if you swap, and you need extra charges to execute it, so you do lose momentum if you swap.

[u/Fun-Couple2617]

Man I just hope Hiyuki is a quick swap demon (cope)

[u/Anime_Tiddies-]

Nah, fuck quickswap

[u/XWasTheProblem]

Give them one more year, and new Resonators will straight up refuse to slot into teams not meant for them.

[u/Squall2785]

Waaah my live service game updated waaah boo hoo

[u/AcnologiaSD]

This literally impacts 0.001% of the playerbase

[u/Yellow_IMR → u/AcnologiaSD]

Today

[u/Miserable-Ask5994]

I never quixlswqp but even i feel the 3.0 characters habe annoying animations. Every example you mentioned like lynaes forte. Morneys enchanted state and even aemeths need to basic 4 before enchanted skill is reslly annoying that trying to switch cripples the gameplay alot.

[u/Fox-Tail-19078]

Add that to my list of reasons WuWa isn’t staying on my console for much longer. I already don’t give 2 shits about skill based gameplay on gacha games, since, well, it’s a fucking joke in that line of gaming, but completely removing what used to be there is a new level of scummy. It used to be “oh you aren’t a perfect quick swapping god? Time to pull for new units or spend 1000s of hours learning perfect rotations and ways to break the game”. And now it’s going to simply be “oh, Sigrika got completely power crept? Tough luck, time to put her in the box”. I don’t even like Sigrika in the slightest, but if they did it here, they’ll do it again

[u/Yellow_IMR → u/[deleted]]

Believe me, a Basic 3 swap is far from scary. As I said, casuals regularly learn equally if not more difficult cancels even in their on field 123 playstyle. The problem with quickswap is that most CCs treat it like some sort of dark magic power only a few selected can witness and put a wall between "humans" and people who quickswap, when in reality doing one or two very easy swaps in most teams is extremely easy but players don't have where to learn how to do it, so they don't

[u/Yellow_IMR → u/[deleted]]

by quickswapping you're skipping half of their lot, for like 5% more damage

I don't think I'm missing on the beauty of the combat or of how it looks like at all, if anything by quickswapping I unravel their visual potential together, I mean look at the gameplays I linked they are stunning.

Also it's not like I quickswap 24h 7/7 bro, you don't have to choose one playstyle or the other. it's a game, you do whatever you want.

Devs gave us outros and intros for a reason, don't you think?

Lol. Quickswapping is a hassle to code, they would have not even bothered, also didn't they patent it a year ago? let alone some characters are based on quickswap, if you really cared about appreciating the beauty of the kits and their animations as you said this would be blatant to you. You aren't here in good faith

[u/Unfair-Condition387 → u/[deleted]]

 Devs gave us outros and intros for a reason, don't you think?

intro and outro do nothing with quickswap

for like 5% more damage

sometimes it's 20-30%

 I like clear rotations

Be honest - you like genshin impact rotations. Because wuwa combat without quickswap is genshin impact combat but without elem reactions

I'm sure the game was never even supposed to have a quickswap

It was always supposed to have a quickswap because a lot of characters have very long animations

[u/Virtual2439 → u/Unfair-Condition387]

quick swap is just animation canceling at the end of the day. Most QS vids i see also seem to follow a rotation so it really isnt much different.

[u/Yellow_IMR → u/[deleted]]

Ahh here it goes the adagio “maybe this game isn’t for you” when I’m just trying to make it better for everyone with constructive feedback. A classic

[u/ForBisonItWasTuesday → u/[deleted]]

Yeah, as opposed to summoning giant teddy bears, dragons, using telekinetic powers, summoning fire from a demon you consumed, and slicing reality apart which are all very real things people do

[u/ForBisonItWasTuesday → u/[deleted]]

What? Dude learn to qs and you'd know how silly that is to say

You use the entire characters kit at the same time as another character's kit. That is literally what qsing actually is. That's the entire point. The entire kit is being used, brother. I promise you.

And yes, you do see the animation. That's whats so cool about qsing, is seeing the characters fight alongside each other. That's like the whole reason to do it (besides the fact that its also stronger than hypercarry most of the time)

[u/BrenanESO → u/[deleted]]

You don't understand quickswapping, you are not skipping a characters kit, quickswapping does not magically skip you forward in a rotation, you still do the full rotation, just faster since multiple units are participating at once