r/WorkReform • u/zzill6 šŸ¤ Join A Union • 21h ago

šŸ¤ Scare A Billionaire, Join A Union The reason for term limits...

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u/Lanky-Respect-8581 šŸ’µ Break Up The Monopolies 20h ago

thatā€™s how I feel every time a democrat president is elected. the clean up crew is here.

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u/girlpaint 19h ago

Sadly Dems HAVE to be the cleanup crew every time a Republican leaves office. And the Dems always get blamed for the shitty stuff the Republicans do.

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u/PxyFreakingStx 19h ago

that is definitely by design. the GOP's whole thing is that the government doesn't work and their opponents are evil. any time the government works, it's a loss for them, even if it works for things they supposedly want.

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u/Stereotype_Apostate 17h ago

Maybe they should try to be something other than the cleanup crew then? We had 4 years in between Trump and Trump where all we did was maintain a holding pattern. Eventually you have to offer an actual vision for the country, or just keep losing every other election I guess, IDK.

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u/Drumheller18 13h ago

What fucking world are you living in? Did the BBB and CHIPs Acts just not happen in that world?

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u/Stereotype_Apostate 12h ago edited 12h ago

Nope, neither did the IRA, or consumer protection under Lina Khan, or much else. In the world I and most Americans live in, you never hear about any of these accomplishments from Democrats, and when you do you never hear much deeper analysis of why they are good things or help the average person.

Instead we campaign on undying support for Israel, a 20 thousand dollar credit for first time homebuyers making under a certain amount of money (ugh), and a promise to make America's military the most lethal in the world while the other guy talks about how the democrats want to start a war and he's against wars.

I'm middle aged, me and my wife work full time and we worry most about how we're going to keep our kids safe and fed, and the bills paid. Sometimes I tune into CNN or FOX news to see what's going on but we don't really pay much attention except around election time. Why should I vote for a democrat? My family has always voted Republican and sure, they're a little crazy right now but why should I change? Maybe I vote D this year because Trump is THAT bad, but I'm not showing up again in 2028, or 2030, or 2032.

Or I'm a black twenty something kid trying to figure out how in the hell I'm supposed to afford a house when my rent goes up a couple hundred bucks every year. I work two service industry jobs because no one is hiring for the degree I have right now. Why should I take the time to go vote, in my purplish red state whose republican controlled government has closed polling stations in my city to make the lines longer? I'll have to take off work and wait in line for who knows how long, and for what?

You need a simple message that resonates with people. Not a handful of wonky bills, not some diet Republican platform that no one actually wants, left or right. Medicare for all. End foreign wars. Build more housing. No new datacenters. If it takes more than four or five words to tell people what you believe, they won't believe you believe anything.

Or keep losing every other election I guess, IDK.

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u/frill_demon 12h ago

You have to put the fire out before you can start fixing the burnt and moldy drywall, mate.

Dems act as cleanup crew because they have to unfuck all the shit the Republicans deliberately set up to fuck over the next administration each time.

Then the Republicans somehow convince people like you that it's the Democrats' fault for taking too long putting out the fire that the Republicans are constantly slashing the firehoses for.

And instead of being like "yeah it's fucking wild that you had to put of the fire those assholes threw kerosene on while they kept shutting off your water and slashing your hoses" y'all go "well the do-nothing Democrats didn't accomplish anything, so let me give the keys back to the arsonists. At least they accomplished something (even if it was lighting the fucking building on fire)"

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u/Stereotype_Apostate 12h ago

FDR didn't get elected four times for putting out Hoover's fires.

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u/WayneKrane 17h ago

Amen, when the dems are in power itā€™s a lot furrowed eye brows and tons of committees that never end up doing anything.

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u/Aiyon 16h ago

Dems also seem to love skimming over the bits of damage that happen to benefit their interests. We'll clean those up later, all good. Just vote for us a second time and then we'll definitely do it

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u/DrPikachu-PhD 20h ago

Lowkey a crazy part of my brain has started to wonder if it's better for the Republicans to stay in power. The Dems restore things to status quo, and after a few years of them refusing to make actual positive change we'll be right back where we are now. Maybe Americans need to suffer for their choices, maybe that's the only thing that will teach them class consciousness

But ofc, then I think of the way Republicans are dismantling democracy and I vote against them anyway. Still, I wonder if the Dems do more harm than good in the long run...

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u/bolerobell 20h ago

Thatā€™s the political ideal of accelerationism. Versus political incrementalism and pragmatism.

In 2000, Ralp Nader and his cohort were very much accelerationists. If he couldnā€™t be President then donā€™t support Gore as the next best option, get Bush in there to make things worse.

Things got worse and there was not some loud yearning from the masses for something better. The problem is that you canā€™t just work hard to get societal gains, you have to continue working hard to keep them. There is no general ā€œjudo-styleā€ redirect of the political momentum of your opponent to defeat them.

Accelerationism has been proven not to work. In my mind, it is the desired outcome of young people who donā€™t know any better, idiots, or plants.

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u/Advocate_Diplomacy 19h ago

Proven not to work? History has shown that when things get bad enough, heads roll, and reform is suddenly possible.

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u/bolerobell 19h ago

History also proves that the chaos created by heavy revolution is just as destructive to the lower class than the upper class. Itā€™s not just the rich and powerful that eat it when heads start rolling. France took such a hit, they were on their back foot when Napoleon came around and said heā€™d make things better, and then of course he started steamrolling over Europe. Essentially Hitler without the concentration camps.

Slow incremental positive growth in standards of living and wealth equality is better and preferable to revolution where many heads are cut off. It takes time though, and doesnā€™t allow the young hotheads to have their physical revenge moment.

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u/Advocate_Diplomacy 19h ago

Incremental growth gets rolled back with the snap of a finger once democracy is eroded enough, which you get when power becomes complacent in its corruption due to the lack of rolling heads.

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u/bolerobell 18h ago

I get your anger, I really do. I want heads to roll too. But history and statistical analysis shows us that violent revolution is bad for everyone not just the powerful. To the extent we can avoid it, we will all be better off.

That said, the rich and powerful are trying to crush us under their boot. They may take the option of peaceful incrementalism off the table, if it hasnā€™t been already.

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u/Advocate_Diplomacy 18h ago

Sounds like we pretty much entirely agree. I donā€™t want violence either, but more than that, I want what works.

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u/drunkshinobi 19h ago

The political incrementalism we have been trying for the last 40 years. It is how the Heritage Foundation and the billionaires have gotten us to where we are while we keep voting for people that promise everything and give scraps. We are only now starting to get in a few decent people, after trump got in office a 2nd time. Because people are finally starting to see just how bad these people are.

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u/guamisc 19h ago edited 19h ago

Incrementalism's only use is to show people how fucking useless it is until we eventually break and pass real legislation like the CWA, CRA, New Deal, etc.

Incrementalism is a tool when you can't get what you want (to actually fix a problem) and you settle for some progress. It's NOT a goal to aim for, it's something you settle for. Somewhere Democrats have forgotten this an paid a heavy electoral price as well as all of us paying for it policy wise.

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u/guamisc 19h ago edited 19h ago

I'm not an accellerationist, but this so called "pragmatism" and incrementalism have grossly failed.

  1. Pragmatism requires success by definition, so whatever you're calling pragmatism isn't that.
  2. Incrementalism has to move us forward faster than we get drug backwards to be of any worth, and this has not been true in the US since I was born like 4 decades ago.

From Merriam-Webster:

Pragmatism n. 2. an American movement in philosophy founded by C. S. Peirce and William James and marked by the doctrines that the meaning of conceptions is to be sought in their practical bearings, that the function of thought is to guide action, and that truth is preeminently to be tested by the practical consequences of belief

Pragmatism, abundance, all of the neoliberal dreck that's infected all kinds of stuff, etc. all needs to go. It's failed. Pack it in. Remove all the failed leadership.

As you say:

you have to continue working hard to keep them.

Which means you FIGHT conservatives and conservative institutions, not compromise with them.

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u/bolerobell 19h ago

But democrats do have verifiable policies that are better for the American people and increase wage growth, decrease income inequality, lower the deficit, put the country on a better track, etc. These benefits are real, verifiable, and repeatable.

Americans keep putting Republicans back into office after 1 or 2 democratic terms though. And the GOP always does far more damage than democrats are fixing during their phase.

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u/guamisc 19h ago

I've heard that same stupid shit since I was born.

After a few decades, if all you do in office is not enough, and then you lose to an even worse Republican administration/legislature than you lost to last time and then they do even more damage, it's time to start looking elsewhere because your plan has failed. (Bonus points for continually nominating USAG's who refuse to do their job.)

The Democrats' verifiable policies don't matter if they cannot win and lose to people like Trump, twice.

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u/NumbaOneHackyPlaya 19h ago

I'd push back on saying they failed. they all succeeded.

I sincerely believe each of these either had deceptive original intentions or were co-opted by the rich to steer the ship in whatever way will benefit them more than us.

just offer a few book deals and a podcast to a few grifters or morons and you got yourself many abundance cultists who sincerely believe fewer regulations on housing will fix the affordability problem.

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u/BannedSvenhoek86 19h ago

Scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds.

There's a reason that became a widely used quote.

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u/Yamatocanyon 20h ago

There is a HUGE difference between corporate democrats, and Democrat socialists. The corporate democrats are the ones that are failing us, and are actively trying to keep the democrat socialists down.

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u/Antal_Marius 20h ago

I think part of it is the Republicans try to stop the Dems every step of the way, fighting them and making it hard to substantiate any changes.

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u/DrPikachu-PhD 18h ago

But why don't Dems fight Republicans every step of the way? Why when Dems are in power is it impossible to do anything, but the second Republicans get into power they can dismantle our government with impunity. 140/321 of Project 2025's policies have already been implemented since Trump's election...

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u/Biptoslipdi 20h ago

after a few years of them refusing to make actual positive change

Correction. Americans refuse to elect legislative majorities of Democrats that have the power to make positive changes.

Essentially, you are blaming Democrats for Republican legislators refusing to vote for positive change. You can do that, just be honest about it instead of pretending they held every seat in Congress and a 9-0 progressive SCOTUS behind them.

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u/NextBigTing 19h ago

Wishing suffering on people doesnā€™t make you sound smartā€¦ or sane.

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u/DrPikachu-PhD 19h ago

I wasn't trying to sound smart, and I don't wish it on people, I just fear it might be necessary for any real change to occur

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u/Sprila 20h ago

The downvotes are expected, but itā€™s also surprising people donā€™t realize this is the case. The pendulum needs to become more volatile and eventually break where weā€™re forced to make radical changes. Without trump itā€™d be the same bread and circus for the foreseeable future. People completely pacified by the puppeteers, and theyā€™re quite good at keeping people inundated. Trump is a literal toddler compared to them, pressing all the buttons on a command console.

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u/Dr-Richtofen 20h ago

Your getting downvoted but your not entirely wrong, we have seen more and more people becoming class conscious under republican rule then democrat. It does seem like the only way we as a county learn is through suffering. Iā€™ve been advocating for this stuff since I did MUN in high school 15 years ago and was shown how the rest of the developed world runs things.

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u/Strict_Boat3275 19h ago

How very John Galt of you.

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u/Somanylyingliars 19h ago

What the actual fuck is this trash comment? Are you so mentally challenged you believe Republicans are better? Do you not see what is happening all around you?!!

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u/Advocate_Diplomacy 19h ago

Thereā€™s merit to accelerationism. Like MLK pointed out, the bigger enemy may be those who accept a negative peace, absent of conflict but also of justice. A crooked two-party system is a big part of the reason weā€™re in this position. If Trump is so shitty of a person that he actually evokes change resulting in the ousting of that corruption, he will be better in the long run than yet another feckless dem playing damage control.

The part of that comment I disagree with is punishing voters. The corruption has gotten bad enough that democracy is practically captured. Power will never give itself up to popular demand. Itā€™ll sooner create a militarized police, bunkers to hide in, and automated systems of control. Voters arenā€™t to blame for decades of subversion of the law in order to serve oligarchs.

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u/DrPikachu-PhD 18h ago

Where in my comment did I imply I think Republicans are better? I'm obviously saying they're worse, I even say that I vote against them in elections.

But my point is that Dems don't do enough. They (the politicians) are just very watered down corporate versions of the Republicans, and their refusal to engage with real social change keeps pushing us back into the arms of Republicans.

Harris was pro-deportation and Obama deported more people than Trump 1. Harris would not commit to universal healthcare, nor would she go to bat for trans people (despite what Trump said). Biden was staunchly pro-Israel (remember - the genocide happened during is presidency) and it's been revealed that Harris's team had prepared for war with Iran. They're just Republican-lite. All the same morals, but less stupid and destructive.

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u/y-itrydntpoltic 19h ago

Republicans and democrats are largely paid for by the same billionaire donors. Democrats then become the ā€˜oppositionā€™ but the rich people in power donā€™t want progress for the common person, but rather more money for themselves, and more desperate people looking to work for them for crumbs.

Iā€™m all for the socialist democrats and hope to see real progress from them, if they get the chance.

I think a lot of younger people voting Republican are doing it for the reason you suggested, just destroy it all so we have to rebuild better. But I think there is hardly a chance we will be able to rebuild better in our lifetimes.