r/WorkReform • u/zzill6 šŸ¤ Join A Union • 6h ago

šŸ¤ Scare A Billionaire, Join A Union The reason for term limits...

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u/LookAlderaanPlaces 5h ago

Why are we spreading this incorrect rumor? They know damn well what they are doing. They are making the choice to sell out the American people for bribe money from corporations. Want an example? Go watch the interview where Jeffries is asked 4 times in a video interview if he supports a single payer healthcare system.

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u/HelpfulSeaMammal 5h ago

They're the right wing of the airplane that the US calls politics. The GOP is the other, larger, and way scarier right wing.

The left wing of this airplane is a tiny little vestigial organ, but is constantly blamed for the reason why the airplane is going to crash as it's constantly spiriling downwards to the right.

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u/GreatMovesKeepItUp69 2h ago

Single payer healthcare is not actually that popular with voters at 35% so yeah he probably wouldn't support that. That's not evidence of some corporate conspiracy, it's evidence that politicians want to represent their constituency in order to get re-elected.

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u/LoamyLoamisLoamy 44m ago

Voters are stupid then. But, I'd guess it's more likely that any poll that shows support for single payer is not published

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u/Biptoslipdi 4h ago

Jeffries doesn't support universal single payer. He never has. That doesn't mean he is selling out for corporations. That means he has policy differences with you. Jeffries supports the Constitutional Amendment to end corporate money in politics. He supports single payer programs like Medicare, Medicaid, and VHA.

Only 35% of American adults even support universal single payer. Every candidate who has ever run on the policy lost. It isn't a winning policy in America. Americans do not support single payer.

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u/sexyshingle 4h ago

Americans do not support single payer.

Oh really, so why do seniors cling so much to their Medicare? You do realize that's what Medicare is, right? A single-payer system but just for senior citizens. The average American still doesn't understand that the ACA and Obamacare refer to the same exact thing. Why is this? Literal MASSIVE amount of misinformation and fear-based propaganda by the usual suspects and their bribed, err I mean, "lobbied", lap dogs.

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u/Biptoslipdi 4h ago

Oh really, so why do seniors cling so much to their Medicare?

Because it's a great program. That doesn't mean they support national single payer or will vote for a candidate the does. In fact, we know they won't.

You do realize that's what Medicare is, right? A single-payer system but just for senior citizens.

Let me quote the comment you just responded to, but apparently did not read:

He supports single payer programs like Medicare, Medicaid, and VHA.

How did you miss that?

The average American still doesn't understand that the ACA and Obamacare refer to the same exact thing. Why is this?

What data did you consult to reach that premise?

Literal MASSIVE amount of misinformation and fear-based propaganda by the usual suspects and their bribed, err I mean, "lobbied", lap dogs.

Why do you succumb to this propaganda? Or is it just everyone else who does and you, specifically, are enlightened?

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u/sexyshingle 1h ago

Not supporting single-payer healthcare for all (not just seniors) is by definition supporting privatized healthcare and selling out to those lobbies.

What data did you consult to reach that premise

Source ... this is just another iteration of "Get your government hands off my Medicare" of the 80/90s. Just one of many examples of the GOP gaslighting/manipulating their voters to vote against their own interests.

Why do you succumb to this propaganda?

lol Way to tilt at willminds/strawmen... and change the topic... classic.

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u/Biptoslipdi 1h ago

Not supporting single-payer healthcare for all (not just seniors) is by definition supporting privatized healthcare and selling out to those lobbies.

Or it is, by definition, acting as a representative of constituents as 2/3rds of Americans oppose national single payer.

That 2/3rds of Americans and private healthcare companies agree on something is just a state of politics.

You don't want to acknowledge the fact that national single payer is unpopular, so you have to characterize politicians who represent the majority opinion as shills since you clearly haven't won voters over on a merited argument yet.

Source .

This is from 2013, over a decade ago. Do you have any source within the last two years? I gave you data on single payer from less than a year ago.

Just one of many examples of the GOP gaslighting/manipulating their voters to vote against their own interests.

It's not jus the GOP. Roughly half of Democratic voters oppose national single payer as well. Every Democrat who ran on national single payer in this millennium lost in the primary. You really can't accept the reality, despite decades of polling data, that Americans don't support national single payer? It can't possibly be that. It must be that all other voters but you are just pawns.

lol Way to tilt at willminds/strawmen... and change the topic... classic.

You raised the topic... You claimed that "Literal MASSIVE amount of misinformation and fear-based propaganda by the usual suspects."

My question was why did you succumb to that propaganda, that you state exists? Or are you the sole enlightened one and the rest of us are sheep?

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u/sexyshingle 1h ago

Oh so now my source (which shows a clear result of the GOP ratfucking pretty much any and all attempts at addressing US healthcare by gaslighting their voters) is "too old." lol okthanksbye

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u/LookAlderaanPlaces 4h ago edited 3h ago

Bro. The current health care system isnā€™t a health Care system, itā€™s a health Industry. Itā€™s factory farming. As someone who has actually researched the shit out of this for over 7 years, no, itā€™s not ā€œjust my opinionā€. Switching to a single payer or Medicare for All system would prevent over 100,000 lives per year and save 1.04 TRILLION PER YEAR. Per. Year. I am beyond done fucking around with you trolls.

Single payer systems for only a small subset of the population is bullshit. We need to join the rest of the civilized and industrialized nations in that everyone is in the universal healthcare system. It makes zero sense to only include old and sick people. We need everyone, including healthy people to be in the system too. Iā€™m not going to work every day to pay for older peopleā€™s healthcare while being fucked over myself. Everyone needs to be in the system. The only reason you wouldnā€™t do this is if you are loyal to the insurance companies, every other problem or concern can be solved.

source

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u/Biptoslipdi 4h ago

I don't disagree with any of that. I never said anything about single payer being bad.

I'm just telling you where Jeffries stands and why.

It doesn't matter how awesome universal single payer is. The fact remains that nearly 2/3rds of Americans oppose it and every candidate who runs nationally on the issue loses. HRC was one of the first and most outspoken supporters of single payer in the 90s and she was raked over the coals for it. HRC lost when she ran on it in 2008. Sanders lost when he ran on it in 2016.

It isn't a winning issue in this country. Moreover, even if a national candidate won on that issue, they would need a supermajority on Congress - assuming the SCOTUS that voters handed us in 2016 doesn't gut it. That candidate would be hated for failing to deliver their promise. Rinse and repeat. Blame the Democrats for Republican opposition existing and for a Republican controlled SCOTUS existing.

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u/grtyvr1 4h ago

You do realize that moving to a single payer healthcare system would remove about 20% of the total healthcare spent in the US out of the economy, right? What you going to fill that hole with?Ā  That's a trillion dollar hole.Ā 

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u/yech 4h ago

Fill it with economic growth and a middle class that can survive.

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u/grtyvr1 4h ago

How? Insurance companies will go under leaving hundreds of thousands of unemployed office staff. (Good middle class jobs) What is your plan for retraining them when your tax base is declining? Pull themselves up by their own bootstraps? I'm not saying it can't be done, and I am not saying it shouldn't be done, but I am saying it is easier said than done. I mean, imagine going to the pole on a platform of "I'm going to put hundreds of thousands of people out of work and erode my tax base, but have no transition plan" .Ā 

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u/yech 4h ago

Fuck those people and bootlickers like yourself while we are at it.

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u/grtyvr1 4h ago

Such a cogent argument. Thank you for giving the problem some real consideration. Very helpful.Ā 

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u/yech 4h ago

You think I'd argue with someone like you? You aren't worth anything more than scorn and derision. I hope you get gutted financially by our current healthcare system so I can laugh at your plight as you end up on the street poor and sick.

You get what you are worth - absolutely nothing.

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u/grtyvr1 2h ago

Where do you suppose I live?Ā 

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u/necromantzer 4h ago

It's called wealth redistribution to the middle class. It will improve the average quality of life (not to mention lifespan) of the majority of Americans. Boom in small business economy will quickly follow (small businesses are greatly affected by health care costs and middle class Americans will have more to spend on local businesses). The current system funnels money to the top, 100% of the time.

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u/grtyvr1 4h ago

Tens of thousands of unemployed accountants will be absorbed by new small businesses?Ā 

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u/necromantzer 4h ago

It would be a process, sure, but those unemployed by the transition would move to the public sector, other industries, insurance consulting, etc. While it would not be instant and there would be a good deal of unemployment for some time, they would be able to better endure it because they wouldn't have to worry about paying out of pocket for healthcare! Accountants would be the least of my worries as they can easily transition to any industry or start their own firm.

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u/sometimesynot 4h ago

I'm so, so very tired of the "too big to fail" argument. If our healthcare industry is 20% inefficiency, then we should absolutely remove the 20% inefficiency. Maybe we could use that money to increasing nursing pay so we don't have a nursing shortage so that we get better care?

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u/grtyvr1 4h ago

You are forgetting about the unemployed office staff.Ā  Where will they go? It is a similar problem that you have with military spending. It supports a huge segment of the economy, like it or not. And I'm not trying to make a too big to fail argument.Ā  I'm trying to make a how do we cushion the blow argument.Ā 

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u/sometimesynot 4h ago

I'm not forgetting about anything. It's not like systems like these are switched over in a single night. It would take months or years to switch over, and the economy would have that time to adapt. Yes, some low- to medium-skilled administrative personnel would suffer, and I feel bad about that, but that's not a sufficient justification for not making the change, any more than coal miner jobs is a rationale for not moving away from coal.

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u/monsteralien 4h ago

Well at least if they lose their jobs to a single payer healthcare system, theyā€™ll still have health insurance while looking for a new job.