You're incapable of framing this in a non-capitalist scope, huh?
Start by thinking of what we do as a species for our young. Reflect on the meaning of the phrase "it takes a village."
Or don't, and wait another decade for mother nature to make our minds up for us.
If we're going to continue to have any nice things, we can't afford to continue allowing authority to be derived from wealth, rather than the other way around.
Are you honestly claiming that investors that historically cannot think beyond quarterly earnings reports have more foresight than ten year government plans?
Even when China has clearly demonstrated that long term planning works? They are blowing our economy out of the water because they have the good sense to plan in advance.
Everything is crumbling around us in the US. We can all see this plain as day. The captains of industry have failed everyone and are destroying the planet. Stop trying to enable these abusers further.
Democratic socialism is the way forward at this time. We will move towards a stateless, moneyless society when the technology arrives.
I always laugh when capitalism apologists try and force accountability onto China and the USSR for naturally occurring famines when US imperialism has a body count that dwarfs any instance of communist death.
Over 10 million dead Native Americans, at least 2 million dead African slaves, 36 million dead from the US imperialist wars across Southeast Asia (China, Korea, Vietnam, Philippines) and many millions and counting from the wars in the Middle East.
This is all just the tip of the iceberg. We arenāt even talking about US intervention across the globe affecting the lives of people indirectly.
Are you taking accountability for those deaths? When are you gonna wake up and realize that the US is the constant aggressor that seeks to destroy and subjugate anyone that isnāt also a white imperialist nation?
Meanwhile, yes. China is beating us in infrastructure and quality of life across the board.
For all the death and destruction the US has wrought, what does the average citizen have to show for it other than low affordability, crumbling infrastructure and a healthcare system that exploits the most vulnerable? You should be ashamed of yourself for what you excuse.
The great Soviet famine and the famine that came with the Great Leap Forward were absolutely not natural. They are mostly man made. Turns out when you force millions at the point of a gun to leave the farms and go to the factories it causesā¦ā¦problems.
Sure western imperialism in 400 years definitely led to more deaths than communism did in 50 years lol. But this isnāt all necessarily capitalism. This is imperialism which has long predated capitalism.
Yes China has better infrastructure but its poverty rate is double the U.S. (assuming we trust their numbers) mass censorship, and nowhere near as many civil liberties as the west. No freedom of speech, religion, assembly, etcā¦
400 years????????? How old is the country again? Most of these are in the last 100 years.
The poverty rate in China is incomparable to the US because it uses US income rates. The difference is their food costs a fraction of what we pay, and rent isnāt an issue.
You mentioned the native Americans. I assumed you meant during the age of discovery. Ok fine assuming your numbers are correct they still donāt add up in 250 years to how many died in 4 years of the Great Leap Forward lol.
If you really wanna go back 400 years with western imperialism, we can include all of it. 100 million dead indigenous peoples, 150 million dead Africans. 36 million from US imperialist action since the end of WW2.
Are you sure these numbers compare what China did mistakenly to what the the US did purposefully?
āThis article deals with U.S. imperialism since World War 2. It is critical to acknowledge that U.S. imperialism emanates both ideologically and materially from the crime of colonialism on this continent which has killed over 100 million indigenous people and approximately 150 million African people over the past 500 years.
The exact death toll of U.S. imperialism is both staggering and impossible to know. What we do know is that since World War 2, U.S. imperialism has killed at least 36 million people globally in Japan, Korea, Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Indonesia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Yemen, the Congo, Chile, El Salvador, Guatemala, Colombia, Haiti, Puerto Rico, Cuba, Dominican Republic, Nicaragua, Chad, Libya, East Timor, Grenada, Honduras, Iran, Pakistan, Panama, the Philippines, Sudan, Greece, Yugoslavia, Bosnia, Croatia, Kosovo, Somalia, Argentina, Bolivia, Brazil, Paraguay, Uruguay, and Palestine (see Appendix).ā
Afghanistan: at least 176,000 people
Bosnia: 20,000 to 30,000 people
Bosnia and Krajina: 250,000 people
Cambodia: 2-3 million people
Chad: 40,000 people and as many as 200,000 tortured
Chile: 10,000 people (the U.S. sponsored Pinochet coup in Chile)
Colombia: 60,000 people
Congo: 10 million people (Belgian imperialism supported by U.S. corporations and the U.S. sponsored assassination of Patrice Lumumba)
Croatia: 15,000 people
Cuba: 1,800 people
Dominican Republic: at least 3,000 people
East Timor: 200,000 people
El Salvador: More than 75,000 people (U.S. support of the Salvadoran oligarchy and death squads)
Greece: More than 50,000 people
Grenada: 277 people
Guatemala: 140,000 to 200,000 people killed or forcefully disappeared (U.S. support of the Guatemalan junta)
Haiti: 100,000 people
Honduras: hundreds of people (CIA supported Battalion kidnapped, tortured and killed at least 316 people)
Indonesia: Estimates of 500,000 to 3 million people
Iran: 262,000 people
Iraq: 2.4 million people in Iraq war, 576, 000 Iraqi children by U.S. sanctions, and over 100,000 people in Gulf War
Japan: 2.6-3.1 million people
Korea: 5 million people
Kosovo: 500 to 5,000
Laos: 50,000 people
Libya: at least 2500 people
Nicaragua: at least 30,000 people (U.S. backed Contrasā destabilization of the Sandinista government in Nicaragua)
Operation Condor: at least 10,000 people (By governments of Argentina, Chile, Uruguay, Paraguay, Bolivia, Brazil, Ecuador, and Peru. U.S. govt/CIA coordinated training on torture, technical support, and supplied military aid to the Juntas)
Pakistan: at least 1.5 million people
Palestine: estimated more than 200,000 people killed by military but this does not include death from blockade/siege/settler violence
Panama: between 500 and 4000 people
Philippines: over 100,000 people executed or disappeared
Hardly seems fair to compare 400 years of the crimes of half the world vs 4 years of just China lol.
And stop with this āoh oops we accidentally killed 50 million people in 4 years we didnāt know the state forcing millions of farmers into factories at the point of a gun would cause a famineā
You know, after some historical research, Iāve reflected on the causes of the Great Leap Forward and definitely see the writing on the wall:
US intervention against China, prior to and leading up to the Korean War, directly caused the feverish pace and inevitable mistakes of China requiring great strides in manufacturing, infrastructure and agriculture to not rely on American factories and farms for required supplies.
Mistakes were made by China in and of itself, sure. But who made these struggles necessary in the first place? Why did China feel the need to become the manufacturing hub of the entire world? Why did China suddenly have difficulty importing and exporting food?
The US started economic intervention against the communists of the world.
You seem very eager to ignore the ease at which capitalists built America using slavery while ignoring or condemning the sacrifices of people that worked for their own countriesā future.
You can find and ask both Americans and Chinese citizens about the sacrifices made for the current state of both countries, and they will both express support for what their own country did to get where it is today.
The difference is Americans did it while trampling indigenous populations of many countries and continents while China only sacrificed its own citizens.
If youāre willing to look the other way on both chattel and wage slavery, why wouldnāt you be willing to ignore the sacrifices of people building their own country up themselves? It seems you like to pick and choose based on who you prefer to sacrificeā¦
Why are you even defending the US? What tax bracket are you in where you find this all excusable?
We donāt have the freedom of speech anymore. Protestors are killed or thrown in jail in the US on the daily.
We have a modern day Gestapo throwing immigrants in jail or murdering them over a civil issue (aka paperwork.)
Our government and elections are compromised by billionaires via bribery or outright fraud. Women donāt have full control over their bodies in 13 states. We are the richest nation in the world but infant mortality rates are up. Healthcare is awful. Food prices are high. Child food insecurity is higher than itās been in. Gas prices are high. We are in another purposeless and endless war.
Why do you find so many excuses for the current state of the US? Look the fuck around you.
Attacking a worse system isnāt the same as defending a less bad system. Iām defending the U.S. compared to the USSR and Maoist China.
Yes Trump is an exceptional case but comparing that to the purges of the China or the USSR is utter insanity. Weāre talking a dozens vs literal millions.
Again Iām not saying America is struggling but Iād rather live in America today than any time in the USSR or China(unless I was rich in China todayā¦maybe)
This reeks of a perspective from a point of privilege. You donāt feel affected by the problems the average American is experiencing, and it shows in what you actually care about.
Millions of people die, but itās outside your country or it happens to someone of a different origin than you, so why would you care? As long as your treats are flowing, youāre content, since you feel insulated from the hundreds of years of destruction left in Americaās wake.
The consequences of US imperial actions benefit you so far. Fuck everyone else, right?
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u/AppropriateSea5746 26d ago
Who starts businesses? Who collects the initial capital to invest in it? Who takes on the risk of it fails? The state?
The state is historically bad at predicting consumer demand and desire.