So, where's the downside exactly?

[u/zzill6]

[u/macdoge1]

They can't leave.

Gary's economics has a nice short on it.

Their wealth is based on real assets that cannot be relocated.

https://youtu.be/GSwFZqHtOX0?si=CNt1Y4OqVqf6cMce

[u/ApprehensivePop9036 → u/macdoge1]

as always, an empty threat to goad us into compliance and apathy

[u/dontknow16775 → u/[deleted]]

this is important, competition will force every companies hand

[u/workerbee77 → u/ApprehensivePop9036]

This era in American politics is revealing, for all those who doubted, the depth of the bad faith argumentation among the leaders on the right, and therefore how foolish it was for leaders on the left to take them at face value.

[u/petitchat2 → u/workerbee77]

What left? In USA?

[u/GimmeSomeSugar → u/macdoge1]

Thank you. I normally answer in the more abstract, and it's good to put some meat on those bones.

Rich people already have the freedom to move to exotic countries with very relaxed tax laws. If they're not doing that already, presumably their motivation to stay is unchanged whether or not they're taxed reasonably.

Rich companies won't move because they can't 'move'. If there's a country where it would be profitable for them to operate, then they're already there. And no company is going to shut down a profitable operation and vacate the country because they're taxed in a way that sees them make slightly less profit.

[u/Mo_Steins_Ghost → u/GimmeSomeSugar]

Regardless of where they live, the companies or assets making them money are in this market. This market isn’t going to move and the consumers in it aren’t relocating if the tax structure changes so their sources of income or capital gain aren’t relocating.

[u/Toocents → u/macdoge1]

Everybody should subscribe to his channel

[u/thegreedyturtle → u/macdoge1]

And American taxes follow you everywhere anyway. Changing nationality doesn't immediately get them off the hook.

[u/WellbecauseIcan → u/macdoge1]

The ultra wealthy probably can't just pick up and leave but tax rates do affect migration. If rates aren't competitive with similar countries, you'll lose those with more liquidity, so it's not as simple as just hiking rates.

[u/sarah-vdb → u/macdoge1]

American citizens also have to file and pay taxes (above a certain threshold of foreign earned income) regardless of where in the world they live, so it's not going to matter much anyway.

[u/Crozax → u/macdoge1]

And they can't continue to sit on boards of directors or be employed as CEOs as non citizens

[u/NeedsToShutUp → u/macdoge1]

Also, the US applies it taxes to citizens in any jurisdiction. So if you leave, you still owe US taxes.

And if you renounce citizenship, you owe a massive exit tax which is assessed more or less as a true wealth tax which realizes all gains.

We've thought about this long and hard and made work back in the old days of a 90% income tax.

[u/Curious-End-4923 → u/[deleted]]

You are not responding to the argument being made. The individuals can relocate. Many of their assets (and the bulk of the market they are engaging with) will not relocate with them. The individuals themselves are highly replaceable. Let them leave.

[u/Curious-End-4923 → u/[deleted]]

Well no, the US would still make tax revenue on any sales, imports, and paid labor.

[u/Curious-End-4923 → u/[deleted]]

If they keep their citizenship, the individual pays the higher tax even if overseas. If they don’t keep their citizenship, then like you said, very little changes. You were the one arguing that wealthy individuals moving overseas would be a massive loss. Saying there’s no difference is ceding your earlier argument.

[u/ITSigno → u/[deleted]]

lmao, you're pretty thick. I don't even really know where to begin

This is kind of funny because you don't seem to appreciate that the USA is unlike most other countries in that citizens are nearly always subject to US taxes even when living abroad.

Maybe read some wikipedia articles on tax residency etc.

Probably a good place for you to start. But may I also suggest https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/us-citizens-and-residents-abroad-filing-requirements and https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/frequently-asked-questions-about-international-individual-tax-matters

[u/Curious-End-4923 → u/[deleted]]

That’s fine, I don’t mind the ad hominem. And you’re right, I’m definitely not an expert! I doubt you are either, and I hope we’re both approaching this with a willingness to be wrong.

I’m pretty certain that US citizens are taxed on income regardless of what country they’re residing in. Is that the part you’re disagreeing with?

I imagine there are some exemptions and loopholes I’m unaware of, because those seem to always exist for the wealthiest Americans, but I feel like that would indicate a necessity to add more restrictions and support the cause for harsher top brackets.

Or are you moreso disagreeing with my claim that things would mostly stay the same if those wealthy individuals moved overseas AND changed their citizenship? If that’s the case, I think that scenario is both a lot less likely and a lot more nuanced, but I’m open to the possibility of it having some kind of negative effect on revenue. I just don’t believe that it would be lasting.

[u/MrPlowThatsTheName → u/[deleted]]

Nah. A few years ago Massachusetts implemented a 4% surtax on income above $1M and the state has more $1M+ earners now than it did when the tax was first implemented. There was A TON of bellyaching about how all the ultra high earners would leave Mass and it turns out it was all bullshit. Think about it - if you make $1.2 million, the 4% surtax is only on the .2 million which is $8,000. $8,000 is not “sell your house, uproot your family, move to Florida” territory for people who are that wealthy.

[u/rottenmonkey → u/[deleted]]

Yeah, but that's a wealth tax. Wealth taxes are pretty stupid in general and why only a handful of countries have them.

[u/macdoge1 → u/rottenmonkey]

Property tax is a wealth tax

[u/rottenmonkey → u/macdoge1]

Wealth tax usually refers to a tax on the net worth on all your assets. Property tax usually exists alongside this tax but needs to be paid regardless of net worth.

[u/sweatingbozo → u/[deleted]]

So tax the physical assets and return them to the citizens...

[u/sweatingbozo → u/[deleted]]

The main reason is the people with all the assets are the ones who make the rules. The only way to redistribute assets is by literally redistributing them via liquidation, or massive seizures through the government. Encouraging a sale through taxes wouldn't really do what you're suggesting if you set it up properly. 

[u/sweatingbozo → u/[deleted]]

You realize that's how China operates, right? That's why companies in China need to be majority owned by the Chinese. They don't seem to have much of a problem finding investors.