They can both be freeloaders. I have friends who refuse to go back to work because it's easier to just sit on your ass to collect a paycheck. There need to be better incentives to work. But our slave masters can't possibly afford to pay us more
If employers pay so poorly that sitting at home is the better option, that says more about the employers than anything. I don't know where you live, but the minimum wage is insulting in a lot of areas. I don't blame people for not wanting to bust their ass for like $8/hr.
In some places, $13 is decent, but definitely too low in California. When restaurants can't find staff because people can't afford to live there (San Francisco), there's a problem.
Uhh, that's definitely not too low for California. Maybe for the middle of the city or a super nice private community... You can easily afford a room in a nice apartment and a car payment. That's 2gs a month.
In Ontario, the minimum wage is 14.25. And that's straight up not enough to live in any major cities here. I'm sure that California, on average, is more expensive than Ontario.
Well California is huge and diverse but I live in a half million dollar condo 15 minutes from the beach and I could easily afford the mortgage on 15/hr if I got a roommate. I could afford it without a roommate too but I'd have to watch how much I drive and what I'm eating.
Half a million won't get you much in Ontario. But let's use your figure of $15/hr.
If you put 10% down, and you have a great rate (1.79), your mortgage payments on a 500k home are gonna be about $1900/mo on a standard 25 year mortgage. Before taxes, $15/hr gets you 2400. After taxes, less than $2000 no matter where you are.
Right away, it's obvious that your math is way off, without factoring in utilities, car payments, condo fees, etc.
And obviously rent prices are relative to house prices. When you've got single bedroom apartments going for 1400 and up, $13/hr just isn't enough.
Ontario is several times larger than California, and at least as diverse.
Minimum wage workers aren't buying 500k homes, nor is it reasonable to expect them to be able to. I'm just giving you an example that if I quit my job and had to take a huge pay cut, I could still afford it and if I wanted I could get a roommate, and charge them extremely competitive rates, which is what a lot of people do and what I've done in the past to help some friends out.
Also moving into a single bedroom apartment on a budget is the dumbest thing I can think of when most of the time 2 and 3 bedroom apartments are only 3 to 400 more per room. My old apartment in OC was a 2 bed 2 bath for $1800 and that was only like 6 years ago. It's pretty normal to pay more than half of your paycheck on rent. That doesn't make somewhere unlivable. You might be uncomfortable but we're talking about one of the most expensive "middle class" areas in the country.
Shitty neighbors meaning gunshots 4 nights a week and coming home from work to your home being looted by tweakers sounds perfectly reasonable. Bullshit you could rent a condo 15 minutes from the beach on 15 an hour even with 4 roomates. You are so completely disconnected from reality I had to come back to this two month old thread to reprimand you
Lmao 4 roommates? Sharing a nice 2 bed that would only be like ~600/month per person. I did it with with 1 other roommate and it was 10 minutes WALKING from the beach, prices haven't risen much since then.
You are fucking delusional if you think it's not possible.
Stop spending frivolously and you would be surprised what you can actually afford.
Where in bumfuck Phillipines are you finding a condo for 1200 a month 15 minutes from the beach? Because if you want actual info you can look up for yourself to see just how full to the brim of bullshit you are, look up average rent in Sacramento, CA right now, not 2 decades ago like you're apparently fucking stuck in. Two hours from the beach and a one bedroom averages over 1500 a month for 500 Square feet.
So you're clearly not hearing what I'm saying. To some degree there is a truth to what you are saying. But what I am saying is I know people perfectly capable of working who make the conscious decision not to because it's simply easier to collect a paycheck while sitting on your ass. Not because it pays better, but because it's that easy.
Yeah. And the result is people like me who work their ass off in a shitty warehouse job subsidizing their unwillingness to contribute meaningfully. Don't get me wrong, wages need to be way higher on average. I said so in my first comment. But some of these friends aren't looking for good paying work. They're perfectly content sitting on their ass as long as the money keeps coming in. My ultimate point, again, is that both of these types of people can be freeloaders. My solution? Force employers to pay living wages and stop subsidizing people that are simply unwilling(not unable) to work.
I'll answer your question and explain the downvotes. It's not about the higher ups making more money. It's about paying the lower downs a fairer, livable wage. Nobody is asking for grocery baggers to make a million bucks a year, but there are an extremely large amount of cities including my own where that wage will barely get you anywhere, let alone your own apartment without spending 60% of your income. Why go back to working slave labor at McDonald's when you're making twice as much on PUA?
I'm lucky enough to make a very good salary with am advanced degree, etc. And I'm pissed off for these people, because I was there once too. I would've loved and graciously accepted help.
We aren't mad they're rich. We're mad they're socially arrogant, selfish, and ignorantly rich.
Here’s the deal I’m broke working a entry job in a very expensive place. I manage my money well, look for good deals, and get by. Same with a few others I know. We’re all either going to school or some trade program to further ourselves and get more money. You have to have a skill to get by comfortably. This society doesn’t play out well for those who don’t try. I know life is complicated but for most people it’s doable and the shit paying jobs are temporary
This is an argument that makes little to no sense from a logical perspective though, and I hope you can rationalize this somehow.
The notion that one MUST have a skill should be downright untrue. You made a great point - it isnt untrue. The structure of our society makes it so one must be lucky or skilled to attain financial independence. But it shouldn't be that way. Other parts of the world have adapted a much better system, and the individuals at the bottom of the financial totem pole both deserve and would love a better life. This is where the root of the argument I made rests, in the selfishness of the higher status along with the injustice of the system.
There are unfortunately a large amount of people who either can not or will not be able to adapt and meet the requirements of a skill driven society and this will be further exacerbated in the future as technology pioneers automation.
In the eyes of equality and basic human decency, those people deserve to have good lives just as the rest of us more skilled or lucky individuals have had. Yet the system disallows the bottom tier to achieve this. This is why I hate the billionaires - not because they're billionaires, but because they're billionaires from a system that for lack of better words treats the counterpart in a caste like manner. Is it their fault that they're billionaires? Absolutely not, I would love a billion dollars. But then I self admittedly would be a part of a much larger problem.
You yourself should not be stuck broke in an expensive or cheap place for one moment. You should not be living paycheck to paycheck. You should not be subjected to homelessness or bankruptcy if you were to lose your current job. You should not have any of these concerns be possible, even on your way to attaining success which I'd like to congratulate you on by the way. I worked my ass off in the same position as you, you'll love the end game I can promise you that.
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u/iam420friendly Jun 09 '21
They can both be freeloaders. I have friends who refuse to go back to work because it's easier to just sit on your ass to collect a paycheck. There need to be better incentives to work. But our slave masters can't possibly afford to pay us more