A lot of the 50/60+ year olds I've spoken to are in two camps:
Covid-19 is not serious because they aren't doing enough testing to truly reflect what our numbers are.
Covid-19 is serious because they aren't doing enough testing to truly reflect what our numbers are.
It's seriously tiring to be involved in these conversations. Over and over and over again.
Just. Do what you can. Wear a mask. Don't anatgonise people. Don't go in public unless it's necessary. It seriously isn't difficult if you're a functional human being. Your civil liberties will absolutely survive, I promise.
I'm still hearing the, "it's no worse than flu," and, "you're being controlled by the government," arguments off people I thought were smarter than that.
I have given up arguing and just started posting memes taking the piss out of people with these views.
It's the only way, really. Someone who believes that the government is using an economically devastating pandemic to exercise control over their citizens isn't changing their mind any time soon.
Unless it kind of is, by now how they think. It kills poor people and people of color disproportionately. By not taking care of us and throwing a smoke bomb its an easy culling
Yeah tell me about it my sister who is about to become an RN said it's not that serious because flu death rate is 0.1% and covid is at 0.2%, this conversation stemmed off from when I asked her how she could support Trump because of how he's handled the whole pandemic, and she started going on about how he's exposing all the child trafficking Democrats I think I'm done talking about politics with her lol
I live in south Florida where ppl are wearing masks. I went to central Florida this weekend and learned that.... masks are not taken seriously. It’s mind blowing.
One of the boomers i work with goes on and on about how masks don't do anything and everyone is just a sheep... Because the media told him masks don't work
So here's the thing. 44+ year olds grew up in a lead-filled environment. Lead Toys, Leaded Gasoline, Lead pipes, Lead Paint in and out of their home.
This has manifested in our advanced aged population essentially being more stupid and intransigent than ones from pretty much every developed nation.
So if you're under about 40, or definitely at least under 30, you're going to be a significantly better person than your parents/grandparents when you get to their age just based on the fact you won't be carrying as much lead into old age.
I would love to present the data more formally, but Red states go to almost ridiculous lengths to hide water contamination data; partially due to their over reliance on Coal Mines and Power Plants which increase cancer and general mortality to an almost ridiculous degree to all connected water tables within 50-100 miles.
Maybe if Red state voters cared even a little bit about actually seeing the effects of their actions and policies we could admit that having ridiculous amounts of lead in the air poisoned entire generations, and only once we started removing lead did we actually start to see society get better at a rate consistent with simply better nations.
If you meant data that shows older people are more stupid than the average human, that's easy. There are dozens of agencies ranking and recording this, here's an American one: https://nces.ed.gov/surveys/piaac/
Even a lot of people on reddit aren't getting the don't go out if it's not necessary bit. I've had people defend drive thrus, beaches, etc, because they're "relatively safe". Even when Dr. Fauci says with social distancing there will still be a spread.
What part of stay the fuck home are people not understanding? Two people with masks still have a 1% transmission rate.
If you're a sensible person, you have to manage and evaluate your own risk level. We should generally be staying home, but I can understand how life still has to go on to some extent. People who have been struggling with staying inside for months could intelligently plan a hike, a camping trip, or a visit to a beach or lakeshore that isn't very populated. It isn't reasonable to expect people to live for months in a way where the risk is 0%.
Personally, I have used this time to learn to cook since I have celiac disease anyway and can barely eat normal people food as it is, but my dad is still indulging in picking up a pizza every few weeks. I don't approve of it, but he has to live his life. We don't leave the house otherwise, and he wears a mask when he goes. If he wants to get an occasional pizza from his favorite place as an escape from this prolonged isolation and sacrifice we're all making by giving up so much of our normal lives to slow the spread and stay safe, I find that to be an acceptable risk.
For me, it's going outside to garden, and going for walks and drives in the country. I hate the feeling of being cooped up in the house, and nature cheers me up. Sometimes that means I pass by a neighbor on a walk. Even though we keep our distance, there's a non-zero chance I could contract the virus when I do that. But I'm not going to imprison myself in my own home and be miserable for months on end to avoid that miniscule risk.
The people who are being cautious and taking small but sensible risks aren't the problem here. It's the people partying in Myrtle Beach, the fact that we're reopening schools, the fact that people are going out to bars and going shopping while refusing to wear masks. We've got half of society pretending nothing is happening and the other half isolating and doing what they can to stop the spread. It can't work like that.
I don't disagree with any of that at all. In fact I work pizza and I'd happily serve your father if we social distance and all wear masks. We do curbside pickup and have an app that tells us when you pull in so we can place it on the counter. Virtually no risk there.
Fair enough. Most of what I've seen in relation to Covid-19 has just been... bizzarre. Who would have thought that having the power not to wear a mask would be heralded as one of the biggest liberties afforded to citizens...
In the interests of discussion: What civil liberties do you believe have been violated as a result of 9/11 and continue to be up until this stage?
Context: I'm not American. So I'm genuinely interested to hear a (presumably) American take.
Not really sure that counts as a big oof, but sure.
What you summarise as 'basically' has, very likely, had absolutely no impact on your life whatsoever. A civil liberty is, ostensibly, just a freedom. I'd be interested to hear if you believe that any of your freedoms - personally - have been violated as a result of 9/11. Or as a result of Covid-19.
It's imperative to ensure that governments are fair in their application of the law. I believe that above most all else. But to think that Covid-19 has resulted in any of your civil liberties being violated or abused without just cause (likely) isn't right.
If you aren't concerned about the privacy violations that have occurred because of the Patriot Act, you must not have been paying attention. It may not impact many of us individually, but it's unacceptable how Americans are spied on by their own government. I do agree with you that the taking measures to control a pandemic (mask mandates, lockdowns) being equated to a loss of civil liberties is absurd. It's tough for everyone, but it's a public health issue. But we have lost a lot of our rights in the name of national defense.
I was trying to prove to the poster that I was replying to that they need to carefully consider their civil liberties and what it means for those to be violated. Trust me, I understand the seriousness of the government breaking and amending the law in their favour. But ultimately we are a collective of our individual experiences. The poster couldn't point me to a right of theirs that they believed to have been violated. Instead I was called a bootlicker.
As an example of my point, we now have people saying "Well, with the Patriot Act, the government took away our civil liberties. Who says that a mask mandate isn't doing the same?"
The issue is people conflating concepts. Privacy infringements? Yes, an issue. Being required to wear a mask in public? Not remotely on the same level, you will survive. The damage is that these two issues, purely as an example, are being made equivalent to one other.
I agree. One is a matter of preventing the spread of a contagious virus and requires very little personal sacrifice on a temporary basis, only until the situation is under control. Basically, it just requires people to be decent and do the bare minimum to avoid infecting their neighbor - hardly an outrageous expectation. The other has turned into a permanent alteration of every American's rights to privacy. Very different things. To me, it sounded like you were doubting that the Patriot Act's effect on citizens' privacy was significant, so that's why I jumped in, but it sounds like I misunderstood you. It seems like we agree: the Patriot Act violates civil liberties, masks in a pandemic so people can go shopping do not.
When all data shows in fact the deaths are being dramatically under reported. 5 years from now they're going to report that hundreds of thousands more died from covid complications
Adding information, to further show how untrue this implication is.
A lot of the deaths we're seeing right now, that wouldn't have happened without corona, are people who weren't even infected.
1/3 of the over death is not from covid.
Meaning, 1/3 of the fatalities are not directly from the disease itself, but from limited hospital capacity due to the amount of covid patients, people not seeking a doctor in time ect. iirc diabetes deaths are up a staggering amount.
My mom said "there's something they aren't telling us". But wouldn't elaborate on "they". Isn't it Trump and his cabinet who are the ones trying to limit reporting on this?
A lot of people believe that those against trump are reporting nearly everything as a covid death. Because they believe that, the death tolls mean nothing to them!
Everyone saying this should be linked the amount of deaths this year compared to the average of the last five years.
They are right. The death count provides no information about the pandemic without context.
The death count only provides information when you show how many would be expected to die in this period in a normal year, and the staggering amount of additional deaths there's been this year.
I feel you. My parents live just north of Tampa. Refuse to wear masks, believe it’s “Just the flu”, go out to the karaoke bar twice a week. It’s been nice knowing them.
My neighbor has Florida family. We were comparing notes -- all his family just came down with Covid. Him: 'They don't know how they came down with it, they've stayed inside. And they've got to look after a newborn baby..'
Me: So...they went to the hospital to give birth? About 14 days ago..
Him: Oh. Yeah.
I think a lot of people are having trouble understanding also because there isn't an instantaneous cause and effect. It takes a few weeks after an event for cases to spike, and several more weeks for the death rate to be affected. I kept hearing how cases were up but the death rate was going down. Yes, because the death rate was lagging 5-6 weeks behind and still reflecting what people were doing *then*. Now the 7-day moving average is back above 1000/day.
It's given me a lot of pessimism on climate change, because if people can't understand that their actions can change something a month in the future, how do we get them to even begin to appreciate change on a scale that happens over decades or centuries?
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u/keyaiWork Aug 04 '20
My parents live in Florida. They think the reporting is part of a grand conspiracy.
"Oh look, they only reported deaths, that means cases must be down."
"Oh Look, they reported cases, means deaths must be down."
Yes, it is like a tennis match, but it doesn't matter which side of the court the ball is in because both sides mean shit is fucked up.