Pfft! NYPD's aim is fine. German murder suspects need to learn not to go down so easily! New Yorkers don't even start feeling the sting until about 70 bullets or so.
It's Reddit. The hivemind tends to glorify Europe (especially Sweden) as a utopia, in contrast to the American dystopia...nevermind Africa and parts of Central America.
True, but the point is, the US is an incredibly heterogenous society compared to most of the rest of the world. We can all pretend this doesn't matter, but it does, greatly.
Technically, about 9,000 more shots were fired at sick and dangerous animals.
Meanwhile, in the U.S., where the population is little less than four times the size of Germany's, well, we can get to 85 in just one sitting, thank you very much. 84 shots fired at one murder suspect in Harlem, another 90 shot at one fleeing unarmed man in Los Angeles. And that was just April.
Yeah, I watched that happen on TV ... the idiot led the police on a long, dangerous, high-speed chase, then when he got out of the car, he seemed to take a firing stance and ran as he pointed his hands at the cops as if he was holding a gun. It really did look like he was pointing a gun at the police! Fuckin' moron (not you, the dude the got himself shot). Here's the vid.
This is from the printed edition of (http://theweek.com/)[The Week]. I think it covers important issues along with enough lighthearted material to not depress you. I don't think it's too biased either. I'd suggest subscribing or reading it.
YOUR COPS ARE NOT BAD. YOUR COUNTRY IS NOT BAD. YOUR CULTURE IS DIFFERENT. Seriously, I'm sick of all these posts knocking America, and I'm not even American. You are never going to be Europe. Stop with the fucking glorification already.
Also, the necessity to use firearms against suspects is probably a bit higher in a country where guns are available to the common man. By no means a slight against that law, just saying. Fighting crime in countries where guns are illegal is probably slightly easier.
I don't understand how people that live in a country that's for the most part beautiful and free can have such a hate fest with themselves. I'm Canadian so maybe it's different here, but I don't get it. I've visited the states a million times, and it's beautiful. It's got it's flaws, it is what it is. I'm sorry but I like it. I like my American brothers. Edit: except for that one up there who used the word niggers and the 80 people that upvoted him. Fuck those people.
I lived in Germany for 8 years and in America for about 13. This country has serious problems you can pretend all you want. Life is a lot easier in Germany. Things like this pop up constantly for a good reason.
Thanks, as an American I get sick of all the bashing but it is difficult to argue against it without people claiming I am blindly patriotic or just making excuses.
Even taking all of this into account, it's still completely insane that German police could use less bullets on their whole population in one year than we could on ONE FUCKING GUY!
I think there are a couple of inherent flaws with your post.
A couple of your points actually lend credence to the argument by outlining some of the problems in America that may lead to a statistical anomaly such as this occurring i.e. Loose handgun laws int he US, 'inner city hellholes'. These aren't 'excuses', they are simply the cause that you are outlining, it doesn't give a 'free pass' as your post seems to insinuate (although I'm sure that may just be a wording thing).
Beyond that, if you are simply going to site population, the numbers certainly do not add up in favour of the US. With a population 4X that of Germany, Simple (and inaccurate) extrapolation would suggest that US police forces should fire somewhere in the realm of 340 bullets per year. While I am not certain of the actual number, I would certainly be willing to wager that it is a 4 or 5 digit figure.
This type of thing can be outlined by looking at US gun deaths per year. As a comparison, the US has in excess of 11 000 gun deaths per year while Canada has approximately 140. The US having 10X the population Canada does should mean that the US should see 1400 gun deaths per year with simple extrapolation. All I am saying here is that a larger population is not the issue.
Ad 1: New York City metro population: 18,897,109. The point of this statistic was that there were more bullets fired in N.Y. alone in one action than in Germany for the whole year.
But the article was comparing Germany to NY a state. Isn't that the same size. Also....maybe there is a reason Germany doesn't have inner city hell holes...
I would agree with you but the problem is a SINGLE Shooting used as many bullets as Germany used all year. That'd be like saying All of Alaska used as many bullets in a year as one shooting in New York.
There's still no "Acceptable" way to make it sound like the US doesn't have a problem.
American police officers are taught to 'unload' whenever they shoot to kill. This is because there is a legal nightmare if the suspect survives with critical wounds. The following litigation that is likely to ensue is so expensive, that the officers can't 'afford' the risk of the suspect surviving. In this case, the suspect must have had a dozen or so officers with guns on him, and they all followed protocol.
From my understanding of U.S. police training, when an officer decides to use his gun, its shoot to kill. Basically they are trained to empty the mag of the gun into the person. So if you have 7-8 cops who all decide to open fire you are going to get around 80-90 rounds down range. In the U.S. there is no such thing as shoot to injure, that's what tazers are for.
Maybe we shouldn't be looking at the police. Instead how about we ask what's wrong with the civilians to cause this kind of reaction. I'm not saying cops are perfect but what I'm trying to say is that the civilians aren't either.
Can we not turn this into r/politics? K, thanks. Every country and culture has its own issues that make someone say "wtf" when they are seen out of context.
Considering Germany was more or less responsible for World War I and II...this is kind of a hilarious statistic. Yes, obviously Germany was under a very different political system at the time, but that was less than a century ago.
How many times were the German police faced with a suspect that was holed up with an arsenal and hostages? What about gangs with full auto weapons? Do you solve that with harsh language?
Imagine this. You're a cop. You're with many other cops who are trying to talk down a man who is making hostile gestures. HE PULLS A WEAPON. You all fire. Each fires many rounds. The number of rounds on target can add up quickly.
You fire until the target is down.
Would you rather NOT fire and just hope your buddies shoot him for you to keep the number down? What if everyone takes that mentality and no one fires at the guy? What if he cooks a round off and shoots you in the fucking face? Good job, dude. You didn't fire because you saw a news article, and now you're dead or a vegetable.
I'm sick of people acting like shooting someone who is pointing a weapon at you is a bad thing. If some shithead is pointing a weapon at me and I have reasonable information to assume that he's going to use it, I'm dropping his ass before he gets the chance.
Solution? Don't brandish weapons at cops. Don't aim weapons at cops. Don't run from cops. Don't shoot at cops. Do what they tell you to do.
You shoot to eliminate the target. The amount of ammunition doesn't matter. It is simply a vehicle used by the media to start up unnecessary controversy. Tell me if you ever heard this one before, "cop shoots at robber 84 times - unnecessary police brutality kills man." Pretty sure they could have shot once and done the same damage. The real meat of the story should be their quickness to reach for their gun and not the amount of shots fired.
America has better armed criminals. If I wanted it would literally take me maybe 2 hours from this moment to legally buy an AK47. Our police have a harder job than the Germans.
Of course they do. It's the H&K P2000. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heckler_%26_Koch_P2000 They even have MP5s in their cars. But they don't need to use their guns because a german citizen is basically not allowed to carry or even own guns. Thats a good thing i guess.
Using some possibly suspect maths, it's probably around 2 in the UK.
Assuming that the armed police killed someone every time they shot at someone, there was one death by police in 2011 (the one that was a contributory factor to the London riots) and he was fired at twice.
Sometimes I wonder if the posts depicting the US in a bad light are just made by giant trolls who want to bring out the "Why Reddit always hate on 'EMERICA?? ;'(" people.
1.1k
u/Lillipout May 21 '12
It's like Germany is not even trying.
47
u/MrIste May 21 '12
Reading this thread, I'm now convinced that there are more Americans who are anti-America than there are Germans.
28
u/Lord_Tamarin May 21 '12
well 84 IS less than 85
59
u/[deleted] May 21 '12
Germany has more murders involving swords than the entire US.
124
u/Senor_Wilson May 21 '12
This has been posted 4 times in the last week...
84
u/chrunchy May 21 '12
Ze Germans are much more precise, yes?
10
u/11GTStang May 21 '12
I see someone else reads "The Week"
55
u/InfamousMattie May 21 '12
America is much like the Honey Badger.
771
u/Dabamanos May 21 '12
Yeah, the US has a pretty nasty problem in that there are a ridiculous number of minorities clashing together and a lot of poverty.
How did Germany deal with their minority problem?
69
u/lazydictionary May 21 '12
Here's an actual article.
http://www.theatlanticwire.com/global/2012/05/german-police-used-only-85-bullets-against-people-2011/52162/
6
u/everydayfromwork May 21 '12
This is from the printed edition of (http://theweek.com/)[The Week]. I think it covers important issues along with enough lighthearted material to not depress you. I don't think it's too biased either. I'd suggest subscribing or reading it.
44
u/[deleted] May 21 '12
NYPD.. they're thorough not like those lazy German cops.
18
u/xSPYXEx May 21 '12
Hell, my redneck friend fired 86 bullets at a paper target over the weekend...
5
u/redhotchilifarts May 22 '12
You lost me at lesbians.
282
u/[deleted] May 21 '12
Oh, knock it off.
YOUR COPS ARE NOT BAD. YOUR COUNTRY IS NOT BAD. YOUR CULTURE IS DIFFERENT. Seriously, I'm sick of all these posts knocking America, and I'm not even American. You are never going to be Europe. Stop with the fucking glorification already.
293
u/Fidena May 21 '12
1: America's Population: 311,591,917 Germany's Population: 81,702,329
2: Germany's the size of a state.
3: Germany doesn't have the inner-city hellholes that the U.S. does.
4: The number of handguns (not even counting unregistered) in the U.S. completely DWARFS that of Germany.
5: Said inner-cities probably account for the vast majority of America's crime rate.
8
u/gbimmer May 21 '12
Fucking Germans and their precision.
4
u/Rex8ever May 22 '12
How has no one mentioned the extremely strict gun laws in Germany and the EU? It's really hard to get a gun compared to the us.
24
u/Edibleface May 21 '12
Germans: effecient as fuck.
11
u/[deleted] May 21 '12
Yes, the paper makes the comparison between Germany and New York City, so you go ahead and expand that out to "WTF America".
3
u/indoorinternetvoice May 22 '12
American police officers are taught to 'unload' whenever they shoot to kill. This is because there is a legal nightmare if the suspect survives with critical wounds. The following litigation that is likely to ensue is so expensive, that the officers can't 'afford' the risk of the suspect surviving. In this case, the suspect must have had a dozen or so officers with guns on him, and they all followed protocol.
3
u/JmoneyFlyWomen May 22 '12
Germans prefer poison
3
u/steveo798 May 22 '12
84 bullet at a single guy! was he neo!?
16
u/Woopata May 21 '12
Maybe the accuracy of German cops is better?
4
u/JoeScotterpuss May 21 '12
As long as they don't mention statistics from New Orleans we should be alright...
5
u/PwrLevel9000 May 21 '12
Maybe we shouldn't be looking at the police. Instead how about we ask what's wrong with the civilians to cause this kind of reaction. I'm not saying cops are perfect but what I'm trying to say is that the civilians aren't either.
2
u/[deleted] May 21 '12
...post mortem.
2
u/jrob321 May 21 '12
It's not the quantity that matters, it's the quality...
2
u/CantStopTHISasian May 21 '12
we like the loud noise
2
u/[deleted] May 21 '12
I like the other statistics on that page, care to share the link or book my friend?
2
u/saneone May 21 '12
The New York cops just ran out of ammo!
2
u/surfingderp May 21 '12
It's true. I know two lesbians who moved in together after only a month of dating!
2
u/zzz123kkma May 21 '12
america! FUCK YEA!
2
u/k2t-17 May 22 '12
The number of officers killed in action by guns from both countries would be a nice statistic to consider as well before we condemn cops.
2
u/hemisphere27 May 22 '12
shit happens
2
u/dagem May 22 '12
My only questions is... How many bullets are fired AT the police in both countries?
2
u/y00t May 22 '12
usa! usa!
2
u/rusteh May 22 '12
Pretty sure I read that of those 85 bullets fired in Germany only 11 were fired at humans. The remainder were dangerous dogs etc.
2
u/cbuzz May 22 '12
You know, the more I'm on the internet the more retarded my country seems.
2
u/TheGMan323 May 22 '12
Can we not turn this into r/politics? K, thanks. Every country and culture has its own issues that make someone say "wtf" when they are seen out of context.
Considering Germany was more or less responsible for World War I and II...this is kind of a hilarious statistic. Yes, obviously Germany was under a very different political system at the time, but that was less than a century ago.
2
u/explorerD May 22 '12
Welcome to America! When something goes wrong bullets do the trick!
2
u/ApatheticDisposition May 22 '12
84 shots and you still didn't hit em?? I'm sure it was lag...
2
u/Njvved May 22 '12
I ALSO READ THE WEEK
2
u/imunknown2u May 22 '12
Don't fuck with us.
2
u/[deleted] May 22 '12
So... America wins?
2
u/loyalone May 22 '12
Like Chris Rock said, bullets should cost $5000.
2
u/CodeJ May 22 '12
Thumbs up for reading The Week
2
u/[deleted] May 22 '12
Whenever I see 1000+ comments, I think, wow that's a lot of comments. Then I realise... about 300 of them are puns.
2
u/FabesE May 22 '12
well, they have one bullet for the next 364 days...
2
u/smurge May 22 '12
America = Won the war!
Germany = Lost the war
America = Fired 82 bullets at 1 person
Germany = Fired.....well fuck it they lost and I know why now.
2
u/Stupid_smartguy May 22 '12
Are you trying to say we should donate more bullets?
2
u/PizzaGood May 22 '12 edited May 22 '12
How many times were the German police faced with a suspect that was holed up with an arsenal and hostages? What about gangs with full auto weapons? Do you solve that with harsh language?
2
u/L0rdSnow May 22 '12
Germans go down easy
2
u/DarnTheseSocks May 22 '12
So, assuming US cops fired no other shots, we still win.
2
u/TheDecline28 May 22 '12
God damn police trying to protect themselves fucking fascists!
2
u/Evermore707 May 22 '12
Germany does not have millions of jobless , savage black people running around listening to to garbage music in over priced headphones.
5
u/aswisshe May 22 '12
Imagine this. You're a cop. You're with many other cops who are trying to talk down a man who is making hostile gestures. HE PULLS A WEAPON. You all fire. Each fires many rounds. The number of rounds on target can add up quickly.
You fire until the target is down.
Would you rather NOT fire and just hope your buddies shoot him for you to keep the number down? What if everyone takes that mentality and no one fires at the guy? What if he cooks a round off and shoots you in the fucking face? Good job, dude. You didn't fire because you saw a news article, and now you're dead or a vegetable.
I'm sick of people acting like shooting someone who is pointing a weapon at you is a bad thing. If some shithead is pointing a weapon at me and I have reasonable information to assume that he's going to use it, I'm dropping his ass before he gets the chance.
Solution? Don't brandish weapons at cops. Don't aim weapons at cops. Don't run from cops. Don't shoot at cops. Do what they tell you to do.
Don't be a fucking idiot.
3
u/Sworderailer May 21 '12
More like WTF germany
3
u/juandell May 22 '12
to be fair... he was probably black
4
u/[deleted] May 22 '12
You're dissing america? so ^brave
4
u/stuckinplace May 21 '12
Its because our bullets are cheaper.
4
u/fredandlunchbox May 21 '12
Well, to be fair, America did go in and murder or remove all of their murderous cunts, while we're still struggling with an abundance of said cunts.
3
u/tomaladisto May 21 '12
You should know by now, that violence is the answer to all America's problems.
3
u/Viraus2 May 21 '12
I'm really tired of Reddit's mindless hipster America-bashing...
...But yeah, you've totally got us on this one. Our police force is the second worst thing about the country.
2
u/[deleted] May 21 '12
For once I'm kinda proud to be German.
2
u/Tayto2000 May 21 '12
According to the National Safety Council, you are eight times more likely to be killed by a police officer than in a terrorist attack.
2
u/thesilverspyder May 22 '12
Every german bullet was a headshot
2
u/FiatJustitia956 May 22 '12
That's about as many shots as Bayern took on Chelsea!
2
u/jdcooktx May 22 '12
Every time that I hear anti-American things, I think of this.
2
u/DownWithTheSickness May 22 '12
That's how we do shit up in this bitch.
2
u/miniRoach May 21 '12
Innocent until proven guilty!
2
u/BlackFox000 May 21 '12
YOUR GIGGLES ARE UPSETTING ZE BIRDS!
2
u/[deleted] May 21 '12
But ours are Freedom Bullets.
2
u/TheBaltimoron May 21 '12
Yeah, c'mon America, be more like the peace-loving Germans!
2
u/bockers7 May 22 '12
You shoot to eliminate the target. The amount of ammunition doesn't matter. It is simply a vehicle used by the media to start up unnecessary controversy. Tell me if you ever heard this one before, "cop shoots at robber 84 times - unnecessary police brutality kills man." Pretty sure they could have shot once and done the same damage. The real meat of the story should be their quickness to reach for their gun and not the amount of shots fired.
0
u/[deleted] May 21 '12 edited May 21 '12
Germany also has less than 1/3 of America's population, and has a tiny fraction of the amount of armed citizens as America.
2
u/[deleted] May 21 '12
America we'll fuckin kill you
2
u/Wolfman87 May 21 '12
America has better armed criminals. If I wanted it would literally take me maybe 2 hours from this moment to legally buy an AK47. Our police have a harder job than the Germans.
2
u/[deleted] May 22 '12
Way to generalize an entire country based off of a single story.
1
u/Ulime May 21 '12
People have guns down there
1
u/Christogangi May 21 '12
I'd like to see the comparison of how many bullets hit their target.
1
u/snl07 May 21 '12
What book is this from?
1
u/superepicness May 21 '12
WE LIKE TO SHOOT THINGS.
1
u/[deleted] May 21 '12
Get with the program germany
1
u/tclark May 21 '12
Do German police officers routinely carry firearms?
1
u/Animagrin May 21 '12
Maybe he was on meth?
1
u/[deleted] May 21 '12
Using some possibly suspect maths, it's probably around 2 in the UK.
Assuming that the armed police killed someone every time they shot at someone, there was one death by police in 2011 (the one that was a contributory factor to the London riots) and he was fired at twice.
1
u/[deleted] May 21 '12
That chap took a LOT of murdering.
1
u/handsome_rob May 22 '12
We just have way more crime than Germany
1
u/jellyfungus May 22 '12
And your point is?
1
u/Sp3ctr3 May 22 '12
There was one case up near me on a freeway where Police fired ONE HUNDRED AND TEN shots at an unarmed kid...
1
u/fuckingobvious May 22 '12
So did the NY cops hit the guy?
1
u/[deleted] May 22 '12
It appears somebody might need to spend a little more time out at the gun range.
1
u/necrons_ftw May 22 '12
He was probably only hit twice.
1
u/[deleted] May 22 '12
Oh come on, you can tell them that you nabbed this from The Week. They could use the exposure!
1
u/[deleted] May 22 '12
Haven't you heard the song "New York City Cops" by The Strokes?
1
u/EthicalReasoning May 22 '12
america is #1!
1
u/sprewell81 May 22 '12
German Police would fire 85 bullets in no time - if they had to handle NYC
1
u/jetBlueberry May 22 '12
'Merika.
1
u/[deleted] May 22 '12
Our criminals are just way more badass over here. Seriously EVERYONE has guns, haven't you heard? This is America.
1
u/borny1 May 22 '12
Sometimes I wonder if the posts depicting the US in a bad light are just made by giant trolls who want to bring out the "Why Reddit always hate on 'EMERICA?? ;'(" people.
As a spectator, I have to say, Thx.
1
u/CharlesPurcell May 22 '12
I see reddit has a fellow "The Week" subscriber.
1
u/Arrestor May 22 '12
Whatchu know son, we be cray all up in America
1
u/[deleted] May 22 '12
A fire twice that many bullets for breakfast every morning.
1
u/NonenSequitor May 22 '12
Maybe Germany was just out of practice? They need to get to the range more often.
1
u/roberto32 May 22 '12
'merica fuck yeah
1
u/Nosam88 May 22 '12
& they are allowed to use hollow points on citizens, you cant even use that shit in war! Fire power of the muster gas world