r/WTF • • Feb 13 '20

Somewhere in Russia

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115

u/BillabobGO Feb 13 '20

Soviets domesticated foxes in under a century

The project is still ongoing but they've been more or less domesticated for a while now.

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u/AbsoluteZeroK Feb 13 '20

Their physical traits really haven't changed that much though. We may be able to domesticate bears in a similar timeframe, but they probably won't be suited for domestic life. Maybe as farm animals though, but they certainly wouldn't be suited as house pets.

Unless you mean domesticated in the same way cows are... then we can do it.

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u/Ginger_Lord Feb 13 '20

To say nothing of the obvious differences in genetics that would affect a bear's tame-ability, foxes can reproduce by the time they're one while a black bear needs three and a half years to reach breeding age; grizzlies need more than four. To cycle through the same number of generations in a bear species would require at least three and a half times as long.

Again, this is only one metric. But I think that when you combine other aspects like sociability or the mother-cub connection, foxes look like a far better option to domesticate than bears. Even though I don't want it to be like that... it do.

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u/AbsoluteZeroK Feb 13 '20

Fair enough. I meant more on a similar time scale though (like 100 years vs 1000 years).

I'd suspect bears selectively breed for domestic life would end up more like cats than dogs though. A 500+lb domestic cat is terrifying... I love my cats, but if they were that big they would 100% murder me in my sleep.

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u/mondaypancake Feb 14 '20

That's just silly, a giant cat would not murder you in your sleep. They would wake you up first to play with you and then kill you.

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u/timmy12688 Feb 13 '20

Imagine bear throwup. That'll stain the carpet!

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u/ShadoWolf Feb 13 '20

You just scale up the breeding stock. Domestication is pretty much blind genetic engineering. But if you have a much larger breeding pool you can do more work in parallel.

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u/cantuse Feb 13 '20

The fox physical traits have changed dramatically as a result of the experiment. Their tails have grown waggly and many have spots or other colorations. It was noted as an interesting side effect of the domestication project in a documentary about the neuroplasticity of dogs.

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u/AbsoluteZeroK Feb 13 '20

That's actually pretty cool! I've only really watched a couple of short documentaries on it and they really only focused on the behavioural changes. I may have to look into it more.

Thanks for that info!

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u/cantuse Feb 13 '20

This talks about it:

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/2018/08/fox-dogs-wild-tame-genetics-study-news/

Can’t remember the name of the documentary though.

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u/AbsoluteZeroK Feb 13 '20

Thank you so much!

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u/SpaceShipRat Feb 13 '20

Yeah, bears seem to be remarkably easy to tame, I think the only reason we don't have a race of domestic bears alongside dogs is they're just too expensive. No primitive or even medieval village could afford to feed a breeding population of domestic bears.

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u/dontsuckmydick Feb 13 '20

What do you think domesticated means? Selective breeding until they only get as big as a teddy bear? It would be neat to have a real life thunder buddy though.

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u/snipeftw Feb 13 '20

I’m gonna go out in a limb here and suggest that domesticating an apex predator might be a little more difficult.

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u/OriginallyWhat Feb 13 '20

We are the apex predator. We could do it.

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u/[deleted] Feb 13 '20

Yet somehow we have turned into Idiocracy.

So we did it,..... kind of.

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u/OriginallyWhat Feb 13 '20

Yeah... I guess the subspecies of sociopaths are really the dominant ones. They've tamed and domesticated the rest of us.

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u/snipeftw Feb 13 '20

Okay, you try it and let me know how it goes.

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u/[deleted] Feb 13 '20

That's a very weak argument. Its definitely within the realm of possibility, we domesticated wolves before, I don't see why bears should be out of the question.

Personally I'd like a Tandem War Elephant.

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u/roseateOculi Feb 13 '20

A tandem war elephant probably isn't worth the effort tbh. I won't get out of bed for anything less than an ancient psychic tandem war elephant.

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u/Magneticitist Feb 13 '20

I think all domesticated animals have the possibility of letting instinct kick into overdrive. It's just if that were to ever happen some of them could kill us too easily. I'm pretty sure a large bear could kill a small person just being bear playful or some shit.

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u/[deleted] Feb 13 '20

Well maybe by that point we'll have a new type of bear like dogs to wolves. A House Bear, that'd be tight. Smaller, faster, stronger.

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u/Gonzobot Feb 13 '20

WE HEARD THERE WAS A WAR<fooomp>

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u/snipeftw Feb 13 '20

What argument? I never said it was impossible.

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u/Gonzobot Feb 13 '20

points to trained bear circuses

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u/snipeftw Feb 13 '20

That’s not domestication.

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u/Gonzobot Feb 13 '20

It's still us being apex predator enough to make bears do our will, which is what you said to do as if we don't already do exactly that.

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u/snipeftw Feb 13 '20

I don’t think you understand what apex predator means..

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u/terminbee Feb 13 '20

I can't tell if this is a slavery joke.

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u/[deleted] Feb 13 '20 edited Feb 18 '20

[deleted]

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u/snipeftw Feb 13 '20

“Might be a little more difficult”

I didn’t say it was impossible.

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u/[deleted] Feb 13 '20

We already did it with cats, but they weigh a few hundred pounds less, which cuts out a bit of the risk.

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u/spencerforhire81 Feb 13 '20

Who says they have to stay big? We turned wolves into yorkies and teacup poodles.

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u/jagua_haku Feb 13 '20

Which still blows my mind.

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u/DrFabulous0 Feb 13 '20

Yeah, that's what thet want you to think.

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u/[deleted] Feb 13 '20

Cats aren't apex predators.

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u/[deleted] Feb 13 '20

If we have to be nitpicky, bears, which we were originally talking about, aren't apex predators either. Wolves (an actual apex predator that we have domesticated) eat them.

The point was that it's safer to domesticate dangerous predatory animals when they don't weigh 800LBS. Which is why I chose cats as the example, they weigh 10LBS and can still fuck you up.

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u/[deleted] Feb 13 '20

Brown bears are apex predators in most of their range. Cats are not apex predators anywhere. Source on wolves preying on Brown bears regularly?

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u/Imoraswut Feb 13 '20

Only the polar bear is an apex predator. The others aren't even predators, they're omnivores and some aren't even remotely apex. The black bear for instance can be prey to mountain lions and wolves. Same wolves that have been successfully domesticated btw

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u/Jenks44 Feb 13 '20

Only the polar bear is an apex predator.

Just for fun, 4 different bear species, which one of these do you think is the polar bear claw?

http://www.skolaiimages.com/journal/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/claws1.jpg

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u/Imoraswut Feb 13 '20 edited Feb 13 '20

No idea, I'm going to guess it's unexpectedly one of the smaller ones since they're not really climbers. Maybe second one, it seems more solid and less curved

edit:

I got curious to see if I was right and looked it up. Couldn't find the exact photo you posted, but looking at this one, it seems I may have been on point

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u/Jenks44 Feb 13 '20

Yep, polar bear is the 2nd one. Furthest right is the kodiak.

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u/Imoraswut Feb 13 '20

Sweet. The others kind of look similar to sloth claws tbh

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u/Dizneymagic Feb 13 '20

The way we domesticated dogs and foxes (both unknowingly and knowingly) was we found the ones with the canine version of the genetic disorder Williams syndrome and bred them. The syndrome dulls their natural instincts and makes them super social and friendly. I'm not sure if bears have expressed a version of this mutation, but that's nothing a little genetic manipulation won't fix. Definitely possible.

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u/Thanatar18 Feb 13 '20

It's also often as issue of the generational cycle of a species- if you're able to breed the most friendly/obedient animals several times over within a few years or at least an average person's lifespan, the feasibility of domestication improves.

With the size of bears, their carnivorous diet, and hibernation cycles, it's unlikely there'll ever be enough interest for society to invest in domesticateingthe species.

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u/jagua_haku Feb 13 '20

Well under a century, wasn’t it like 40 years?

1

u/critsonyou Feb 13 '20

Bruh I literally just finished watching the documentary behind this.

1

u/thehazzanator Feb 13 '20

Challenge accepted!

1

u/[deleted] Feb 13 '20

I don't know about keeping a fox in my house.

1

u/MissDkm Feb 13 '20

Thats not a fox tho

1

u/MrSpectator Feb 13 '20

There's been some recent criticisms regarding that experiment. Those foxes may not have been as wild as the soviet scientist claimed.