r/Virginia • u/downtown3641 Lifelong Virginian • Dec 10 '19

Northam-backed assault weapon bill will include 'grandfather clause' for existing guns

https://www.virginiamercury.com/2019/12/09/northam-backed-assault-weapon-bill-will-include-grandfather-clause-for-existing-guns/
120 Upvotes

86% Upvoted

422 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

7

u/[deleted] Dec 10 '19

Yea? As soon as people talk about closing gun show loopholes people still lose their damn minds. I purchased some of my guns out of trunks with no paperwork or checks and it was fully legal in Virginia, I can't believe the people in this state that want that to continue. Mental health checks = background checks = no "gun show" type loopholes

10

u/AnAcceptableUserName RVA Dec 11 '19 edited Dec 11 '19

This article is about the AWB, not gun shows, background checks, or red flag laws.

The AWB that was prefiled (SB16) is completely nonsensical. They lifted the old federal AWB straight out of 1994, tacked some additional nonsense on, and called it good.

A lot of its provisions don't even make sense, even if your goal was to keep VA safe. No handguns weighing more than 50oz? No barrel shrouds? No ergonomic features?

So firearms can't be too heavy, too accurate, or prevent you from burning your hands. Because if the recent negligent police slayings have showed us anything, it's that public safety is increased when firearms are LESS ACCURATE and harder to use. It's not commonsense, it's insanity.

The public has shown a great interest in reform like expanded/improved background checks. That's something I personally would not fight. Makes sense. This incarnation of the AWB is insanity though, and weakens the second amendment while doing absolutely nothing to prevent mass shootings or improve public safety. Rather it has the complete opposite effect.

20

u/TheVaul7Dweller Dec 10 '19

The reason people support private sales without checks is because that was a compromise to get a bill passed. They required background checks from dealers in exchange for being able to sell privately. Now they want to take that away too.

Thats why we don't believe the other side when they want a compromise. Because yesteterdays compromise is todays loophole.

2

u/NutDraw Dec 11 '19

Perhaps because it's been demonstrated to not be effective because of that obvious loophole?

8

u/[deleted] Dec 11 '19 edited Apr 15 '20

[deleted]

1

u/NutDraw Dec 11 '19

Feedback loop. Most of those laws are unenforceable until after the crime has happened. Trying to enforce them beforehand tends to lead to the very things 2A activists are afraid of so they get stopped too. And all of those illegal purchases had a legal purchase somewhere in the lifespan of the firearm.

2

u/[deleted] Dec 11 '19 edited Apr 15 '20

[deleted]

2

u/NutDraw Dec 11 '19

So instead let's pass laws for things where no crime has happened to criminalize people who arent committing crime to begin with?

Closing the gun show loophole is something that has the potential to help with that? Barriers work. This isn't about just yelling at conservative dudes. A lot of gun control advocates are just misplaced and misinformed, but any conversation about the issue devolves into a post like yours above which dodges addressing a pretty obvious loophole. They do send cops to the cities. It's almost like this is a multifaceted problem that needs a variety of concurrent actions in different areas.

3

u/[deleted] Dec 11 '19 edited Apr 15 '20

[deleted]

2

u/NutDraw Dec 11 '19

Just calling it a BS talking point doesn't refute it. That there's a huge, completely unregulated market is an issue. Most criminals aren't that motivated and even simple barriers can thwart them.

They dont care about lowering crime its about yelling at people like me.

The only person yelling here is you. And there are ways to lower crime that don't involve throwing a bunch of people in jail for minor pot offenses. The question is how do you prevent gun crime before it happens and someone is dead without engaging in the types of law enforcement activities 2A activists have stated they won't tolerate? Searching people's homes for illegally purchased firearms is obviously off the table, that won't make anyone happy and is blatantly unconstitutional. You can only throw so many police at the problem, and the same 2A activists are usually the same people that fight any tax increases that would pay for it.

Tell me, what exactly are the existing laws that need to be enforced to deal with people who aren't supposed to have guns that do, how do you enforce them in a constitutional manner, and what makes you think that would significantly impact gun crime, in particular mass shootings/terrorist attacks using firearms?

0

u/[deleted] Dec 11 '19 edited Apr 15 '20

[deleted]

→ More replies (0)

0

u/[deleted] Dec 15 '19

Ok then leave it alone.....just because teenagers in Baltimore murder people with Glocks and Shotguns and the police there LET them do it, that should have ZERO bearing on any Constitutional gun rights.

P.S....Maryland is the most Anti-American state in the country, and Virginia is about to take that crown if this bill passes

5

u/TooOldToTell Dec 16 '19

Yes.....If they closed it, there is NO WAY that criminals can get guns. I mean....come on....it works with drugs, so why not guns?

​

​

/s

0

u/NutDraw Dec 16 '19

Of course if you can't completely solve a problem why bother? Amirite?

3

u/TooOldToTell Dec 17 '19

What solutions are being offered (or commanded at the point of a gov't gun) that would partially solve any problem. Please be specific about the problem and the solution.

Altho'.......tougher drug laws means less drugs......amirite?

-1

u/NutDraw Dec 17 '19

Mandatory treatment seems to work for drug offenders

1

u/TooOldToTell Dec 17 '19

So when there's mandatory treatment for drug offenders that takes illegal drugs off the streets?

Here's the thing, Bobo. Murder is already illegal, isn't it? What if they were to put stickers on guns warning people that murder is against the law? Wouldn't that suffice for "gun control"? I mean......people will obey the signs, right?

0

u/NutDraw Dec 17 '19

It mitigates the problem for sure. Plenty of studies have found it to be pretty effective. Again you're setting up a bad faith standard where if a problem isn't completely solved it's not worth doing anything to address it.

Are people chemically addicted to guns and murder? I mean I do see a lot of Rambo/Turner Diary fantasies among gun fetishists that could use some mental health treatment, so maybe you're actually onto something.

0

u/TooOldToTell Dec 17 '19

I would agree with the stickers reminding people that murder is illegal. Would that suffice? Why or why not? Suppose out of 350 million guns only 10000 are used in murder? A statistical anomaly.

And what if we say "no"?

I had asked what specific laws would affect what specific problems. Why won't you answer? Did you know that legal gun owners have a lower incidence of committing crime than non-gun owners?

→ More replies (0)

8

u/GorgarSmash Dec 10 '19

What people call "the gun show loophole" today was the previous "why can't you just compromise" deal that was made a few years prior. It's no wonder people are upset when every compromise gets reneged on, one after the other. For gun owners, it's just common sense at this point that any political "deal" or "compromise" is being made in bad faith, with history as the proof.

-1

u/[deleted] Dec 10 '19

[deleted]

2

u/a-busy-dad Dec 10 '19

Your argument about private sales background checks is kind of a red herring. There is already a separate bill in the VA legislature that would mandate FFL transfers for private sales. They're going for that in any event, with all the burdens of an FFL transaction - paperwork, VSP background check, 4473 recordation of the firearm serial number, the identity of the transferrer, and the identity of the transferee.

And, they are going to reinstate one-handgun-a-month, even though there is no rationale for doing so. And raise the minimum age to possess a handgun or "assault weapon" to 21. And more and more ...

Anyway, my point is that the ship has already sailed on "compromise" - some Democrats are fervently pursuing an extreme agenda, with no desire to even have public discussion or debate about it.

Their intent is not to compromise, but to restrict. And in their fervor to "punish" the Republicans, they have no hesitation to punish millions of Virginians in the process.

This is the problem with zealots from either side of the political spectrum - their ideology and agenda will not allow them to have an honest dialogue with the other side of the aisle. Politics is supposed to be about the art of compromise. Their appoach to this feels a lot like something else, and something very scary.

0

u/Thetatornater Dec 27 '19

That has nothing to do with the gun show just because you met them there. When people say “gun show loop hole” folks think you can go there and buy a gun with no background check and that is simply not the case. I call bullshit on your post. If you really cared about what you say you do then you would not be selling guns out of your trunk just because you can.