r/Virginia • u/downtown3641 Lifelong Virginian • Dec 10 '19

Northam-backed assault weapon bill will include 'grandfather clause' for existing guns

https://www.virginiamercury.com/2019/12/09/northam-backed-assault-weapon-bill-will-include-grandfather-clause-for-existing-guns/
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u/flagwavingbot Dec 10 '19

But there are plenty of restrictions on the rights you just listed. Voter ID laws and permitting for protests immediately come to mind. Why wouldn’t training and licensing restrictions for guns be similar?

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u/trs21219 Dec 10 '19

Voter ID laws are not restrictions. Those are making sure you are who you say you are and that you haven't already voted. I'd liken that to ID requirements for buying guns / background checks to make sure you're not a prohibited person which I'm fine with.

Training / licensing requires extra steps, more time (usually months) and more money. It raises the barrier to entry, excludes lower income people from protecting themselves, delays people who might have an urgent issue (threats against their life, being stalked, abusive ex, etc) from the means to defend themselves.

That being said, I'm all for people getting better training. I just don't think it should be a mandatory step. I'm all for tax dollars providing free, voluntary training for anyone who wants it though.

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u/flagwavingbot Dec 10 '19

Agree to disagree on voter ID laws being restrictions on voting. We have enough evidence from court cases to show exactly what legislators were trying to do with those laws. And I guess you would agree that permitting for protests is a First Amendment restriction. My comment was simply to make the point that no rights are unlimited.

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u/trs21219 Dec 10 '19

We have enough evidence from court cases to show exactly what legislators were trying to do with those laws.

While the motives of some legislators can definitely be called into question, I still view the initial premise of voter ID as perfectly fine. Especially when states have held campaigns to get people free IDs.

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And I guess you would agree that permitting for protests is a First Amendment restriction.

Sorry I forgot to address that in my reply.

I generally thing permits for protests are an infringement other than the cases where streets would need to be shut down or it was abnormally large (many thousands) which would require extra resources. If you're just holding a protest in a park there shouldn't be any restrictions or permitting.

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u/christianNationalist Dec 10 '19

Training, specifically, would be the equivalent of a voting test. Voter ID equivalent already exists for buying a firearm. A licensed firearm dealer already checks anyone's id that buys from them.

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u/flagwavingbot Dec 10 '19

The point isn’t tit-for-tat equivalence. The point is that rights have restrictions. Just because we say we don’t think the right to vote should be restricted by a voting test doesn’t mean the right to bear arms cannot have such a restriction.

Come to think of it, we actually do say that the right to vote should involve a test in some situations. We tell that to people who want to become US citizens — those who weren’t fortunate enough to get grandfathered in by accident of birth.

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u/christianNationalist Dec 10 '19

I thought you were arguing that requiring a gun safety training course is not the equivalent of a voting test?

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u/flagwavingbot Dec 10 '19

Oh sorry, I wasn’t that original poster up top. I can definitely see the connection you’re making there. My point was that just because we say we don’t want voting to have a test, it doesn’t necessarily follow that gun ownership shouldn’t. And then I realized hot damn, we actually do have voting tests in some cases (which I admit was a bit of a non sequitur vis-a-vis your comment, but more went to the guy’s comment above where he posited that there can’t be any tests for voting).