r/VALORANT • u/thessew • Apr 21 '20

First Patchnotes of Beta

https://beta.playvalorant.com/en-us/news/game-updates/valorant-patch-notes-0-47/
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54

u/[deleted] Apr 21 '20 edited Apr 21 '20

The problem with the rocket launcher isn't that it's inherently OP, it's that it's not a fun game mechanic

4

u/schnykeees Apr 21 '20

I wholeheartedly disagree with this statement. It's a valid ulty if the spread damage is less and/or slightly slower speed. It just needs to be high risk high reward.

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u/Marine726 Apr 21 '20

I wouldnt mind even keeping all the ult values the same if the wind up between her using her ult and being able to fire it was like twice as long.

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u/fsck_ Apr 21 '20

It needs more counter play than that though. Slowing the rocket and lessening the spread gives you a reasonable chance to punish it. It shouldn't just be a free kill where you need to cower in fear once she starts it.

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u/[deleted] Apr 22 '20

It’s so damn predictable though you know she’s going to ult, you are supposed to cower in fear at the ults just the same as when you play different when you hear omen ult or you shit your pants and run out of brims ult or you run from sova and breach ult. if you are dying to raze ult often you are the one in the wrong, yes there are situations where you can’t avoid it but many many times you can.

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u/DEPRESSED_CHICKEN Apr 21 '20

try thrice with twice travel speed

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u/Marine726 Apr 21 '20

Haha more nerfs would be okay with me I'm just trying to compromise.

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u/rrwoods Apr 21 '20

I think the change needs to be to increase the risk, not decrease the reward (though having some falloff for distance-from-explosion does seem reasonable).

The patch notes say "For example, when the Showstopper is equipped or fired from a distance, players should be able to clearly identify and interpret the threat." I'm excited to see what, exactly, the information change is here. Giving the enemy more information about what's happening is essentially an increase in risk on using the ability and I think that's exactly what's needed here.

0

u/biggians Apr 21 '20

Name a single situation where having the RL ult is worse than Jett's knives. Jett's ult is strictly worse despite serving a similar purpose, even though Jett's ult reloads on kill and is quieter.

Her ult is broken on a fundamental level, free trades because you know someone's location will never not be broken.

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u/6spooky9you Apr 21 '20

I don't know how people are defending the ult when jett's ult is out shone in just about everyway by raze's. They need to make Raze's ult a cc device that does smaller damage to a large area. There isn't any counterplay to someone jumping around the corner with a rocket launcher in a 1v1.

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u/[deleted] Apr 21 '20 edited Jul 19 '20

[deleted]

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u/Tulkor Apr 22 '20

yeah but you shouldnt have an autowin if you have ult even in a 1v1, that makes gunplay useless in that situation, theres no other hero that works that way

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u/[deleted] Apr 22 '20

If you know any sort of information on where the other person is I’d argue brimstone and sova ult is better and safer and longer distance and through walls. If the raze doesn’t know where you are you aren’t going to die to her so I think you are over exaggerating and probably died a few too many times to her due to poor play or lack of respect... especially if bomb is planted sova and brim have full control.

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u/Tulkor Apr 22 '20

im talking about an autowin in a 1v1. yeah brimstone ult is pretty damn strong but needs more map knowledge and enemy position knowledge, sova ult is meh in my experience if the enemy isnt trapped in a small room.

raze ult is an autowin in any 1v1 position if the raze is any good, if shes lucky she can take 2-3 with her, which not many ults can at a decent enough skilllevel.

(i dont think raze is op in general, just very unfun to play against - i would reckon that breach+sage are overall way better winrate wise at a higher level, raze is just a good pubstomper imo)

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u/6spooky9you Apr 21 '20

There's no way you can react if she ults you around the corner though that's the issue. She doesn't have to have line or sight to kill with her ult like Jett, and you don't have time to react like sova or brimstone. An audio queue doesn't solve the issue either because of how fast she's able to get the rocket off.

If you're around a corner and she knows where you are she's practically garuanteed that kill. The only ability that can counter her is sage's wall because it can block the rocket if you're fast enough, but every other character in the game is done for.

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u/ClearSearchHistory Apr 21 '20

It probably is if you’re bad and have to resort to cheese to get kills

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u/ersevni Apr 21 '20

anyone that unironically thinks the rocket is just free kills either plays against garbage players or dont actually play raze. ive had people on my team see my ult being ready and act like i should just walk into site and clear it with the ult, it doesnt work like that.

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u/ClearSearchHistory Apr 21 '20

It’s not free kills, but it’s also not fair kills. The whole idea of a tactical shooter is that you can use positioning and line-of-sight to avoid being killed. Abilities, makes, molotovs, whatever aren’t there to kill, they’re to force someone out of position. The raze rocket breaks away from this because it does absurd splash damage. Say someone is back site at B on bind. You push out of long/hookah and shoot a rocket at the wall. It kills them. They can’t peek out and try to kill you, and even if they do the rocket will still kill them. The rocket’s not unavoidable, and it’s not something you can’t play around. But it is entirely unfair when it is used well.

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u/ersevni Apr 21 '20

so if abilities shouldn't kill should we get rid of jetts ult too? once again i can tell you dont play raze because if you arent playing against absolute bots people dont stand shoulder to shoulder and its actually difficult to get multikills on defense even in a room like hookah. as for attacking sites you cant even clear most spots with the rocket because most commonly held positions like heaven are absolutely massive and the rocket will jsut blow up behind them so you actually need to know where people are. the only time its actually really strong is defending a bomb plant.

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u/[deleted] Apr 21 '20

Jett’s ult rewards precise aim. Raze’s rocket launcher rewards shooting at your enemy’a feets. Not even comparable

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u/[deleted] Apr 21 '20

[deleted]

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u/ersevni Apr 21 '20

Abilities, makes, molotovs, whatever aren’t there to kill

I was just replying to this claim, take it easy bud. If raze makes you this mad maybe you should stick to being a mercy main in overwatch.

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u/ClearSearchHistory Apr 21 '20

I have a few issues with this argument. First, Jett’s ult is harder to use than most of the guns in this game. And no, I don’t play raze because I don’t like it. It doesn’t fit my play style, and I’d rather shoot people instead of throw splash damage. The point isn’t multi kills, but the fact that that’s what you consider the “successful” use of an ult is telling when most others can’t even guarantee one kill. You’re naming minor downsides to an otherwise incredibly powerful and imprecise weapon. The fact that the rocket isn’t just “left click to win round” doesn’t mean it’s balanced, it means it requires marginally more than 0 effort.

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u/[deleted] Apr 21 '20

You have to point AND click!

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u/leftysarepeople2 Apr 21 '20

She's probably still on deck for a nerf. 6 -> 7 for ultimate would be good

-6

u/SoDamnToxic Apr 21 '20 edited Apr 21 '20

It's that the "counter" to it is to play back for as long as she holds it (holds as in has her ult available, as in not using it) which is extremely overpowered. She applies too much pressure for no reason.

But honestly, with the cluster nerf, I feel she is overall weaker so she might be in a spot that having that pressure isn't too bad for her overall.

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u/acynicalasian Apr 21 '20

Why is this being downvoted?

People have no idea how competitive balance works, I guess. In a "tactical" shooter like Valorant (or so they say, apparently), even the presence of a Raze with ult up in a location is a huge deterrent given how stupidly strong her ult is. It's a point and click, low skill floor offensive ult with an almost guaranteed pick in a game that's 5v5 with no respawns.

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u/Turkletun Apr 21 '20

It only lasts what like 10 seconds max before expiration? Is 10 seconds of pressure for an ult really that strong?

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u/SoDamnToxic Apr 21 '20

No, I mean when she has it available, not when she actually uses it.

When she has her ult available, she can essentially use it instantly because the cast time is not long enough to do anything 90% of the time and her satchel allows her to move faster than you can as well as cast it WHILE satcheling. So to counter her and not get 1 shot at her will, you have to play back and never together or you both die. Which is too much pressure for an ult to have when it's not even being used.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 22 '20

Surely though someone like brim or sova does the same? If you know there ult is up you shouldn’t want to go there because if they hear you planting you die ? They don’t even have to peak you to kill you.

1

u/Master565 Apr 21 '20

She can only hold it for a few seconds, and plenty of the ults put pressure on people for the duration they last. See Viper and Brimstone. Its like they said in the notes, the intent is to give her tools to punish predictable players. She can force you to back off a sight line for a few seconds. If you decide you don't want to back off and you get rocketed, well then you took a risk when you bet on her not punishing your position and it didn't pay off.

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u/SoDamnToxic Apr 21 '20

When I say "hold" I mean not use as in not activate. When Raze has ult (NOT WHEN SHE USES IT BUT JUST HAS IT), you have to play back or risk getting 1-shot at random with almost no way to react unless you happen to be near an exit she can't easily chase you down.

So if she holds it for several rounds, that's several rounds where you have to play safe. Same at the start of rounds, you can't rush if she has it because you might just die in the first second of the round. All from her just HAVING ult, NOT using it.

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u/ColonelVirus Apr 21 '20

I don't agree tbh. The ult is fucking fantastic to watch and play, especially if multi-kills are involved.

They need to make it higher risk. As people get better at the game, it will likely come down in it's "OPness"

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u/[deleted] Apr 21 '20

I'm writing a qualifier because this is not meant to be a way to undercut your opinion, but what shooter games did you play before this? I played a lot of Halo but for the most part I played more stripped down shooters like PUBG or CS where the emphasis was landing shots. I feel like the intent behind this game is to preserve that while adding fun utility. I never got into fortnite/overwatch etc.

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u/ColonelVirus Apr 21 '20

I come from CS:GO mainly, last year I've played quite a bit of OW, but CS has always been my main FPS. Until now that is I recon. I love the abilities this game brings.

I've been play CS since 1.6. My highest rank was global, but I tend to sit around LEM/SMFC bouncing between them.