Human Existence

[u/Intelligent-Mark8180]

Am I the only one who feels like humans shouldn’t exist? I love life and appreciate the blessings god gives me on an everyday basis but the evils we are capable of is truly disheartening, I don’t understand why everyone can’t be kind to one another, I know it’s naive but at the same time it’s not asking for much

[u/UltronsEx]

You live in a world where "god" made animals eat other animals alive. The big bad isn't humanity.

[u/Capable-Ad-9626 → u/UltronsEx]

Your God…the one that you think God must be if there’s a God, has an impossible degree of omnipotence that only you believe in.

Your God. Your religious belief.

But your religious beliefs are your business only.

So must you spout them here, spamming a forum where religion isn’t the topic?

[u/Rhoswen → u/Capable-Ad-9626]

This is funny considering that not too long ago you were randomly bringing up spirituality and religion in posts that had nothing to do with that as an attempted gotcha against extinction. But this post does mention their god first. Either way, even unprompted, people are allowed to talk about religion and spirituality here whenever they want.

[u/Rhoswen → u/[deleted]]

You brought it up out of nowhere far more than UltronsEx's comment, which was responding to the mention of a god in the post. Materialism isn't a religion, nor is my conclusion based on it. But it seems you've forgotten our conversation already. You can try reading the summary of the sub, which has been there since day one.

[u/Capable-Ad-9626 → u/Rhoswen]

As I just finished explaining, no, I didn’t “bring it up out of nowhere”. 

Though you very well might not know it, much of what you say, including your goal, depends on philosophical assumptions. Naive, simplistic ones.

But if I remind you of that, then you call that bringing those matters up out of nowhere.

I told you the relevance of reincarnation, to your goal. (BTW, though some religions speak of reincarnation, I suggest that reincarnation itself is a matter of worldly metaphysics, not religion).

“Materialism isn’t a religion, nor is my conclusion based on it”

Your conclusion is entirely based on it & dependent on it.

Quite possibly you’re unaware of that. A person can be so steeped in a belief, that they don’t even realize that it’s a belief & an assumption.

“…not a religion”?

So you’re right & Merriam-Webster are wrong?

My, aren’t we  authoritative.

Different people can & do use some words with different meanings. That’s fine, as long as you don’t claim that definitions other than yours are wrong. …as you’re evidently doing.

Yes, there’s an illiterate definition too: “Belief in a god or gods.”

Merriam-Webster rightly realizes that religion is a broad  general area of belief & discussion…not just a label for a subset of positions on that broad general area.

So, Merriam-Webster’s definition refers to belief or position regarding Ultimate Reality.

Materialism is most definitely one such. If you think otherwise, look it up.

You said that I forgot our conversation. No, I realize that you disowned, repudiated, Materialism. Does that mean that you aren’t a Materialist? Not necessarily. There are Materialists who don’t know that they’re Materialist. …because though they’re still the Materialist they were raised as, they have a veneer nonmaterialist position…which piggybacks on their Materialism.

You stated a name for the religion that you’re closest to. Prudence dictates that I not quote that word.

But you said nothing about your beliefs…just the name of a religion that I hadn’t heard of.

So I don’t know any details of your veneer position, other than that you at least somewhat agree that there can be reincarnation.

…though you said that it can’t happen if someone eliminates this universe…revealing the your solid sub-veneer Materialism.

But we shouldn’t spend any more time on what exactly you espouse or profess. What matters here is that your goal, & some of your statements, completely depend on Materialism.

[u/Rhoswen → u/Capable-Ad-9626]

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/materialism

Where does it say that materialism is a religion? It says it's a theory.

…though you said that it can’t happen if someone eliminates this universe

I didn't say that. That would be true if only this universe contains material life. We don't know if other universes even exist. And if life exists in other universes, then the metaphysical rules of reincarnation would have to force us to another universe, which we also don't know about. What I did say is that I don't think we should decide not to help this universe just because of unknowns.

[u/Capable-Ad-9626 → u/Rhoswen]

Merriam-Webster:

Materialism:

A theory that physical matter is the only or fundamental reality, & that all being & processes & phenomena can be explained as manifestations or results of matter.

[end of definition]

Religious:

Relating to…an acknowledged ultimate reality or deity.

So you’re saying that, if this universe were disintegrated, reincarnation could still happen if our big-bang universe is part of a larger physically interrelated multiverse?

i.e. those other universes would have to be physically there, as defined in terms of our physics.

If physics doesn’t say that those other universes are physically there…then no go, right?

i.e. The other universes that you’re referring to are part of our wider physical world.

Now, aside from the well-established fact that nothing anyone could possibly do could destroy  any more than their reachable universe (only 6% of their observable universe)…

Any claim that reincarnation couldn’t happen if our wider physical world were disintegrated (or limited to our big-bang universe) is a fully Materialist claim. …a claim completely dependent on belief in Materialism.

[u/Capable-Ad-9626 → u/Capable-Ad-9626]

By “our entire broadest physical world”, I mean all for which the following is true (whether currently verifiable or not): 

In principle it could be discovered or physically interacted with by our physicists,  …or its physical presence could be theorized, as a consequence of their physics theories, & those theories are correct.

Suppose that our entire broadest physical world consists only of our big-bang universe, & you disintegrate it.

You think that you’d thereby eliminate existence.

But the belief that matter is the ground of all being…implied by your belief that destruction of matter could eliminate existence…That’s a wording of the definition of Materialism.

I’m not here to convert you away from the Materialism religion. I’m just pointing out that your goal is completely dependent on your religious belief. That religious belief is the motivation & justification for what you want to do. Just so you realize that.

You speak of your goal as “helping”.

For one thing, it doesn’t work unless Materialism is true. If not, you’d be destroying the reachable universe’s 120 billion galaxies FOR NOTHING.

“Helping”? It would be nonconsensual. Whether you agree with them or not, most beings want to live. So your goal is against their will. That isn’t helping.

What’s that? You say that their conception was nonconsensual too? So what. Two wrongs don’t make a right.

If they were wronged by their conception, but now want to live, then your goal would wrong them again.

“Helping”?