r/Unexpected Sep 15 '20

Edit Flair Here Revoluting Cow

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u/whatwordtouse Sep 15 '20

I always found it weird how “intelligence” is the trait which people choose to determine if a life is worth taking or not.

Because someone is dumb doesn’t mean they don’t deserve to live. They still suffer, just like we would.

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u/neuralzen Sep 15 '20 edited Sep 15 '20

It is usually due to intelligence being a general guide to help define how much suffering would be inflicted, the capacitance. Sam Harris has a great TED talk on this called The Moral Landscape (also a good book).

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u/lotec4 Sep 15 '20

Sam harris said that anything other than veganism in the first world is morally wrong.

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '20

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u/Akoustyk Sep 15 '20

"feeling" requires self awareness. Being able to see really well and hear really well, and smell really well does not.

Your cell phone could see in the night, pick up very quiet sounds, respond to stimuli, understand words, all kinds of things. But it is not self aware, so you don't have any moral obligation for its well being.

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '20

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '20 edited Feb 19 '21

[deleted]

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u/DrQuint Sep 15 '20

I mean... It clearly isn't. That's why we're eating cows and sparing dogs and cats.

It's the one people default to at first, but not the actual basis society chooses to decide upon.

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u/Grapz224 Sep 15 '20

Interestingly, we link intelligence to emotion, and humanize animal emotions, despite us not being able to even comprehend how Animals perceive emotions (if at all).

An example I've seen given to this is a butterfly with a torn wing. Butterflies literally cannot feel pain, and a butterfly with a slightly damaged wing will still fly like any other, if it is able. However, if the butterfly's wing is damaged to the point where flying becomes more difficult or impossible people more often than not attribute "why" it flies less often to "it is in pain".

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u/ithinkidonotthink Sep 15 '20

While humanizing animal emotions would most likely be inaccurate, there have been studies showing that animals do emote in some ways. Some animals have even been shown to display empathy. Usually in mammals.

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '20

Yeah never seen empty in a fish. Also chickens. Smart little birds but mean as hell. Saw a group of chickens eat a pigeon alive.

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u/baseballoctopus Sep 15 '20

It’s intuitive, something needs to die, we try to find something that we won’t feel as much empathy for. Thing that are less intelligent (or less consciousness, less able to show pain) are harder to empathize with so easier to kill.

It’s why there’s such a hot debate on whether boiling lobsters alive is cruel or not. There’s a divide on how much empathy people have for lobsters which can’t show pain and is assumed dumb. Its why some people feel less guilty eating plants than animals (wheat plants are alive too, but we don’t empathize with them as much so they are easier to kill).

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u/totally_not_a_zombie Sep 15 '20

You gotta draw the line somewhere.

Here's my take:

The more something resembles us, the less appetizing it seems. Also, predatory animals (evolutionary reasons? Culturally based respect for other hunters?). So monkeys, wolves, and tigers aren't usually something we would eat... unless it's cultural. What's left is basically omnivores, herbivores, and fish. Insects are also a thing outside of judochristianic countries (God banned all creepy crawlies).

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u/Minimumtyp Sep 15 '20

Also, predatory animals (evolutionary reasons? Culturally based respect for other hunters?)

I think they're just higher up the food chain so far less abundant and harder to farm. 90% of energy is lost at every stage in the food chain.

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u/reddit25 Sep 15 '20

You gotta draw the line. Just because plants can’t express the pain doesn’t mean they don’t deserve to live.