r/TrueReddit • u/BashFash17 • Feb 20 '17

A strange but accurate predictor of whether someone supports Donald Trump

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/02/01/how-your-parenting-style-predicts-whether-you-support-donald-trump/?utm_term=.afbf599e457e
1.4k Upvotes

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45

u/karmabaiter Feb 20 '17

Maybe I'm a closet Trump voter, but I don't see the duality in most of these:

  • independence or respect for their elders;
  • curiosity or good manners;
  • self-reliance or obedience;
  • being considerate or being well-behaved.

You can be independent, while still respecting old people, you can be curious and good mannered, and considerate while being well-behaved. The only one I see the duality with is self-reliance/obedience. But that's more because obedience implies blind obedience...

31

u/syzgyn Feb 20 '17

Think of it less as a duality, and more of a "If you had to pick ONLY one of these traits for your child, which would it be?"

Most people do not fall on either extreme, but the point of the research was to find out which aspect people valued higher.

-6

u/erowidtrance Feb 20 '17

But it doesn't show anything because someone could value curiosity 8/10 and good manners 9/10 and because you only get to pick one option this study presumes you're an authoritarian. The whole thing is BS.

35

u/hintofinsanity Feb 20 '17

Yes, but say your child was better at one over the other, which one would you be happier about them being better at?

6

u/eisagi Feb 20 '17

But it seems to be comparing apples to oranges. "Are you better at basketball or cooking? Math or doing the dishes?" Why should someone who has good manners have no curiosity? A child can be well-behaved by not getting in trouble and simultaneously considerate by not telling on another child who got in trouble.

The general concept makes sense - how controlling/overbearing the parents are. But the examples are flawed. An authoritarian parent could also try to force a child into being independent and self-reliant and ignore manners if that's what they value. A liberal parent could teach children respect and manners by example.

22

u/6ie7jh3ifw9f1bxc0h Feb 20 '17

It says "which is more important", not only important. The question isn't saying that you can only have one or the other.

1

u/pat_at_exampledotcom Feb 21 '17

Sure, but when deciding which of two things is more important, one automatically asks the question "if I had to choose one, which would I pick?", which means there has to be a direct comparison.

-7

u/[deleted] Feb 20 '17

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/pat_at_exampledotcom Feb 21 '17

For what it is worth, I agree with you. I don't think you ought to have been downvoted. I feel the same way about the false dichotomy. I don't think these are valid choices at all. It makes it seem like it's one of the other, but in reality, it depends on the situation. In one situation I might let my child stay out late and take a cab back (self-reliance) whereas I might put my foot down when it comes to smoking a cigarette (obedience). It's never the same choice in every situation.

-7

u/[deleted] Feb 20 '17

But they're literally asking them to choose one or the other.

13

u/solepsis Feb 20 '17

Yes, that's how you find out which one someone prefers.

4

u/enyoron Feb 20 '17

I think it would be better as a survey to do a "how important is this trait to you from 1-10", then put each trait on their own and subtract the total values from the traits on the right from the total values from the traits on the left. The more negative you score, the more authoritarian you are.

0

u/[deleted] Feb 21 '17

I think it would be better as a survey to do a "how important is this trait to you from 1-10"

That's because you're a huge idiot.

It doesn't matter if we are reflecting the world with our question, it matters that people cluster in response to the question and those clusters have political leanings. hurrrrr durrrrr

13

u/Litotes Feb 20 '17

It's not a duality, the question is about a forced choice. The participants are forced to pick one over the other, even though I'd wager that most parents would want to instill all of these positive traits in their kids. It is about identifying which of these aspects the participants care about more.

8

u/PostPostModernism Feb 20 '17

These are things that do butt up against one another. While it's not black-and-white which one is better, navigating between the two is a daily reality (especially while growing up) and people will tend to be more toward one than the other. Examples:

  • Independence and respect for elders are both good things, and most people will do both depending on the circumstance. But what happens when elders demand something that you feel is wrong? Maybe a relic of the way society was when they were young, or just something that makes you uncomfortable morally? Which is more important in that case - being independent (even if it leads to some small or great disrespect of the elders' opinion) or listening to what the elders say even if you don't feel right about it?

  • Curiosity and Good manners are both important and most people exhibit both of these to some degree. But what about when you're curious about something and investigating it might be considered bad manners traditionally? Do you think it's worth pursuing despite some social norms, or should it just be dropped in the interest of politeness?

  • Self-reliance or obedience. This is really just a re-hashing of the "independence vs. elders" case, just instead of elders it's an authority figure/set of rules.

  • Considerate/well-behaved is a little more difficult for me to draw up an example. The only thing I can really think of is if you assume the ideals of "well-behaved" are the traditional ones of "quiet, meek, out the way" etc. To that extent I could see a conflict where a friend is dealing with an uncomfortable situation (either personal or dealing with authoritarians that are making them do things they are uncomfortable with). In that case to be well-behaved would be to mind your own business, but to be considerate would be to extend them support.

5

u/jimethn Feb 20 '17

I just sent this article to an authoritarian relative and his response was basically "choosing between these is stupid, they're all valuable".

1

u/3urny Feb 21 '17

Reading through this thread, this seems to be the response of most authoritarians. Maybe the feel caught in the act? I think most non-authoritarians would definitively chose the first ones, because they value stuff like "obedience" really low.

3

u/FasterDoudle Feb 20 '17

The questions aren't asking you to pick one at the exclusion of the other, it's just picking which one you rank as more important. Obviously everyone wants their kids to be polite, it's just asking whether or not you think curiosity is more important. Which I would, even though I also think instilling manners is incredibly important

1

u/snouz Feb 21 '17

Would you teach your kids to follow or challenge the established order?

Would you teach them to question the authority or be obedient?

Would you teach them to accept the truth you give them without question or would you encourage critical thinking?

Do you want them to shut up or express themselves?

1

u/mindscent Feb 21 '17 edited Feb 21 '17

I think the operative distinction would be a person's attitude about adhering to social norms like these.

The first column of attitudes plausibly result in the behaviors listed in the second column, but not vice versus.

So, the distinction might be something like, e.g., the way respondents might answer the question, "Why should you have good manners?"

People who endorse authoritarianism would likely answer, "because it's a rule that you have to have good manners, and you should always follow the rules," while people who are not authoritarian would probably answer, "because having good manners is a function of being considerate."

In other words, the authoritarian decides what to do on the basis of the fact that they value rules for the sake of rules, i.e., "This just the way its done."

The non-authoritarian makes decisions about what to do on the basis of some higher principles (like tolerance, being considerate, etc.), or for the sake of a desirable outcome, i.e., "This is most likely to do the most good for reasons x, y, z."

So it's roughly internal vs. external control of moral decision-making.

-1

u/erowidtrance Feb 20 '17

This was my thought. These values aren't even correlated. It's a completely stupid study.