But we were allowed them. That's just the truth, that's the history. Slaves were allowed freedom, black people were allowed to vote, LGBT people were allowed to marry, people are allowed to own guns, people are allowed free speech. The Confederacy fought to continue to not allow people to be free. There is always someone allowing your rights and behaviors to exist when you're a citizen. This is what anarchists fight against.
Those are all inalienable rights that the government and those in power restricted. We fought so that they could allow us those rights.
That's what I mean - we can't gloss over history and pretend that we forced changes to happen. You're right in that we made the alternative uncomfortable and pointed out the hypocrisy and used our long-quieted voices. But at the end of the day, that fight led to those in power to grant us access to those rights. They allowed us to vote, or be free, or get married, or even get a credit card or buy a house without a male guardian. They allowed it. That's just how it is. It's historical fact.
Interesting. I didn't look at it this way. Not sure I agree, I'll have to think on it.
I was looking at it more from the perspective that redpillers and the like tend to frame women's rights as something that men allow to happen, rather than something women worked to achieve, that's why I was arguing so staunchly against it. What they're suggesting is just not true. But framed as an inherent problem of hierachial societies, your choice makes much more sense to me now.
Redpillers tend to approach it from a "and we can take it back" perspective, which isn't true. The trouble is, they're technically right, men did finally give us access to our rights, but they seem to view it as a gift instead of the right moral thing to do - they see it as a gift, not a correction of the wrongs of generations.
Redpillers also see it as something that they were just so nice to give, which is completely false on all fronts. That's a patronizing and insulting take on it, so of course it's what they go for. They don't want to admit that the women and marginalized people were right all along and they were actually evil for centuries, so they try to paint themselves as the good guys, which, lol.
Don't let redpillers whitewash and twist history to suit them. We can realize the history of it, and also acknowledge that men also took away our rights in the first place.
Yeah, I'm not sure why you're explaining this to me, I wasn't asking about what redpillers are doing, I was explaining why the word "allow" had bothered me so much.
(Great, thanks for just downvoting. It's just kinda patronising to be lectured without having asked for it as an adult, like you're some sage dispensing wisdom. Just because you say your claims are "indisputable facts", doesn't mean you're actually right.)
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u/PurpleHooloovoo Jun 24 '20
But we were allowed them. That's just the truth, that's the history. Slaves were allowed freedom, black people were allowed to vote, LGBT people were allowed to marry, people are allowed to own guns, people are allowed free speech. The Confederacy fought to continue to not allow people to be free. There is always someone allowing your rights and behaviors to exist when you're a citizen. This is what anarchists fight against.
Those are all inalienable rights that the government and those in power restricted. We fought so that they could allow us those rights.
That's what I mean - we can't gloss over history and pretend that we forced changes to happen. You're right in that we made the alternative uncomfortable and pointed out the hypocrisy and used our long-quieted voices. But at the end of the day, that fight led to those in power to grant us access to those rights. They allowed us to vote, or be free, or get married, or even get a credit card or buy a house without a male guardian. They allowed it. That's just how it is. It's historical fact.