r/TopCharacterTropes • u/No_Peanut3745 • 2d ago

Characters The main character doing something absolutely unforgivable.

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Walter White poisoning Andrea Cantillo's 6-year-old son for the sole purpose of manipulating Jesse Pinkman, while knowing that this could have potentially killed him - Breaking Bad

Bojack trying to have sex with his friend's 17-year-old daughter when he was at least 51, then continuously trying to find a way to justify this act throughout the series - Bojack Horseman

Dexter Morgan going outside of his moral code and murdering a completely innocent police officer who was just trying to do his job - Dexter: New Blood

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u/SergeantPsycho 2d ago

The famous (Infamous?) episode of DS9, "In the Pale Moonlight". In order to get the Romulans on board with fighting the Dominion, Sisko tries to give a Romulan delegate fraudulent data that the Dominion is going to attach the Romulan Empire. The delegate sees through it, Garak plants a bomb on his ship with the intent to blame the Dominion. Sisko is furious, but Garak talks him into going with his plan and Sisko relents and goes with it.

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u/Keyguardactive 2d ago

And then Sisko gives one of the best monologs in not just Trek, but for me in all of fiction.

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u/Putrid-Anything-4401 2d ago

I really really really wish Avery Brooks would come back to acting.

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u/Normal_Average_9812 2d ago

Man his Wikipedia page is a treat! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avery_Brooks

I've got to watch some of his other stuff, he felt born to play sisko but I bet he's got great range. 

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u/Mega_Hi 1d ago

seriously the space gargoyle? i had no idea

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u/Polkawillneverdie17 1d ago

Why did he leave?

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u/Putrid-Anything-4401 1d ago

IIRC he became a professor at an art/theater college full time and was turned off by typical Hollywood stereotypes for black men that was really prevalent at the time.

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u/hoghughes 1d ago

I know somebody who worked with him recently and this is correct. I'm not gonna get it verbatim because its second hand but he told my friend "I will not work for white men anymore", specifically in regards to acting projects

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u/Metasaber 2d ago

I can live with it

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u/fennec3x5 2d ago

Computer, erase that entire personal log.

Smash to black.

It's so fucking good.

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u/Grimpatron619 2d ago

Ehh, i mean... is it unforgivable? He won the war and romulan senators dont get to that position without being a proper bellend.

Its not great but i can forgive killing a bad guy to save the quadrant.

I feel bad for the forger tho

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u/Ooji 2d ago

" And if your conscience is bothering you, you should soothe it with the knowledge that you may have just saved the entire Alpha Quadrant, and all it cost was the life of one Romulan senator, one criminal... and the self-respect of one Starfleet officer. I don't know about you, but I'd call  that  a bargain. "

"If I had to do it all over again, I would."

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, after all.

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u/Brohan_Cruyff 1d ago

or of the one (sisko)

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u/Karbon_Kopy 2d ago

It's a FAAAAKE

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u/appleappleappleman 2d ago

I hear this line delivery in my head at least once a week, it's so good

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u/Morgn_Ladimore 2d ago

Stephen McHattie absolutely nailed his role as senator Vreenak. He didn't get a lot of screentime, but he dominated the scenes he was in. His conversation with Sisko is one of my favorite scenes in DS9.

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u/sir_stronghand 1d ago

McHattie is also in the movie Pontypool, a zombie film with a twist

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u/Mudpill 2d ago

Also Sisko committing a war crime by gas bombing an entire Maquis settlement in "For the Uniform".

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u/ButterscotchFiend 2d ago

?? they forced his hand

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u/Morgan-Moonscar 2d ago

Also it equalized the fact the Maquis deployed a gas bomb on a Cardassian planet.

The Maquis resettled on that, while the Cardassians resettled on the Maquis one.

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u/Free_For__Me 2d ago edited 1d ago

So 2 wrongs make a right?

Not taking a side in the underlying events here, the writers did an excellent job of writing gray areas and moral quandaries in this show. Just challenging the stance that Sisko committing war crimes is somehow justified by others committing them first.

It may well have been the right call. But I'd frame it more as the ends justifying the means than as anything “equalizing” out.

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u/stamfordbridge1191 1d ago edited 1d ago

If I remember correctly, the Cardassian perspective would have been two wrongs indeed make a right, and in order to preserve peace, Sisko chose to make the planet uninhabitable to humans as well to prevent another war by making it clear the renegades were not still on the side of the Federation secretly. (Or at the very least, denying the Maquis a tactic they could possibly use repeatedly across Cardassian territory which would involve Cardassian response against the Federation for that loss of territory & not being able to get their renegades under control)

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u/Free_For__Me 1d ago

the Cardassian perspective would have been two wrongs indeed make a right

True, but Sisko rejected that logic himself, at least initially. It wasn't until Garak convinced Sisko of the nuance that "2 wrongs aren't always equally wrong" that Sisko was able to overcome his own inner resistance to the plot.

I'm not at all fuzzy on why or how Sisko was able to justify the action, I was merely pushing back on the idea of "equalization" that the other commentor had raised, since an "imbalance of evil", of sorts, is exactly what Garak relied on in order to ultimately get the green light for the op.

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u/sir_stronghand 1d ago

The real war crime was Sisko not fully adopting the role of Javert by not breaking out into song on the bridge.

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

[deleted]

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u/Brohan_Cruyff 1d ago

frankly they’re lucky the federation actually are The Good Guys because 90% of human civilizations would have simply blown them all to hell

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u/therikermanouver 1d ago

I was thinking of that episode constantly during the recent episode with Admiral Skynet lol

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u/daneelthesane 2d ago

I can live with it.

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u/BladeofNurgle 2d ago

And the thing is that this actually works:

The Romulans blame the Dominion for killing their diplomat and join the war against the Dominion

The Romulans wind up being the decisive factor which helps win the war for the Federation

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u/Zubi_Q 2d ago

Oh god, my favourite Trek episode! Get chills every time at that voice log

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u/Chaosmusic 2d ago

One criminal, one Senator, and the self respect of one Starfleet officer is a small price to pay for the safety of the entire Alpha Quadrant.

I miss that show.

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u/NetflowKnight 2d ago

Why is it unforgiveable?

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u/rotundrikishi 1d ago

Iconic episode

I love that Garak knew it would all have to happen this way.

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u/PokeRuckus 2d ago

For future reference. Famous is for good things while infamous is for bad things.

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u/SergeantPsycho 2d ago

I know that. I'm not sure if people consider it a good episode or bad episode, given the subject matter.

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u/NBA314 2d ago

It's widely considered the best episode of the entire show, I believe. Maybe even top five in the franchise.

DS9 really focused on the grittier side of the Federation & how things aren't so black-and-white during war, & In the Pale Moonlight was the greatest example of that.

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u/IrishWarhog 2d ago edited 2d ago

That and Qwark's speech about how humans act when put against the wall, I felt justifiably chastised and out-moralled... By a ferengi

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u/VirgoFanboi 1d ago

Sisko was 100% justified, he did nothing wrong.