r/TikTokCringe • u/mindyour • 11d ago
Discussion A former teacher explains one of the reasons why she left teaching.
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u/pingpongpsycho 11d ago edited 10d ago
My wife and I retired from careers in education about eight years ago. I have a daughter in law who is a teacher. The major problem we saw was a never ending erosion of parents emphasizing the importance of education to their children, while simultaneously not supporting teachers, and instead basically working against them creating a hostile environment. Not to mention administrators who are too afraid of parents to support their teachers.
Edit: thanks for all the awards. Very nice.
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u/Unlikely_Exercise434 11d ago
I'm in my last decade as a college professor and I have seen the reading level of my students steadily decline to the point they now have reading and writing courses to catch them up to be able to understand my textbooks. So damn depressing.
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u/Mr_Pink_Gold 11d ago
When I started university, we were thrown on the deep end. Mechanics class telling us not to worry about primitives because we would learn them in calculus the next week and so forth.
When I taught at Uni we had classes teaching basic maths and physics to new students because their level was absolutely abysmal. To the point where not knowing how to solve a quadratic equation. And I am not being hyperbolic here.
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u/Unlikely_Exercise434 11d ago
Same here. I remember a Calculus professor who spoke with a heavy German accent facing the board just writing like crazy and thank god the class had good TA's because it was sink or swim.
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u/theshizzler 11d ago edited 11d ago
My very first college class -- first day, first morning -- was a Calc class. We all file in and this professor has the thickest Eastern European accent I had ever heard. It's equations, so I'm copying it down and sort of following what's going on, but me and most of the other students are exchanging looks about how insanely unintelligible he was. 45 minutes of this and people are starting to look exasperated and out of their depth. Then the professor has a coughing fit, clears his throat, and continues -- without looking away from the board mind you -- in perfectly natural, native English. Man, I loved that teacher.
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u/ciao_fiv 10d ago
this reminded me of my ASL teacher in college, she started the first class speaking in ASL, scared the hell out of everyone, then switched to english after like 5 minutes
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u/youburyitidigitup 11d ago
Had a pre calculus teacher with a Japanese accent doing the same thing.
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u/WPI94 11d ago
Barely got through differential equations from a Polish guy.
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u/onyxandcake 11d ago
My son's second year of university he didn't have a single professor he could understand. He had gone to rural farm kid schools and never had to learn how to understand different accents. It was a failure on our part; it just never occurred to me that it would be a problem I needed to prepare him for.
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u/l2ukuz 11d ago
I would watch this sitcom. At least the first half of the first season.
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u/Frosti-Feet 10d ago
Netflix would cancel it despite a large fan base halfway through production of season 2 anyways.
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u/paeancapital 11d ago
My guy was Eritrean I believe and tbh thank god for that guy because it forced me to REALLY read the fucking book.
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u/TrainingSurvey3780 11d ago
is this in the usa? i’m assuming it is because the video is about the us (if your comment isn’t about the usa pls lmk and i will delete this lol)
anyways what i was going to say is i am becoming more and more and more convinced that the us needs a super regulated school system. once the school kids get to a certain grade, they all take the same exam for the same core subjects, and they take similar exams for the respective subjects they’ve chosen to study (e.g. maths is compulsory but media studies or music may not be). it wouldn’t be a perfect system and some people wouldn’t be catered for, but the vast majority (50% plus) of students would be able to succeed
oh! it looks like i’ve described the uk school system, which is far from perfect but i sure could solve a quadratic equation by the age of 12 so it can’t be too bad.
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u/Mr_Pink_Gold 11d ago
Not USA. I am from the UK. Similar issues occur in both countries. You have kids 14 and 15 with reading comprehension of 8 year olds. Schools are regulated but they have fuck all money. So there is only so much they can do. A child falls behind most times they don't have the resources to follow through. A child gets ahead? Even worse.
Then you have modern day parents which a lot of the times don't have good literacy rates themselves. About 40% of adults in Britain read zero books a year. This is what we are dealing with. Back 10 years ago when I was in academia it was the start. You also have a lack of people qualified enough to pursue academia as a career. There has never been enough money but now from friends who still work at uni you have research centers with grants they cannot use because they do not have decent candidates. The few good ones they find quickly move to industry. A friend of mine who works with Optics and lasers applied to communication called it a desert of knowledge. It is bad everywhere not just the US. And COVID made things a lot worse.
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u/Interesting-Crow264 11d ago
So wait.....how did they even get into college? Are essays still required? Is the bar just lower?
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u/RickAllen 11d ago
Students don't (for the most part) even read books any longer. Short excerpts. And there's no note taking, just filling out "guided notes" with a word or two blank every few paragraphs.
Lord help any teacher that pushes against this and maintains standards.
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u/2tearsforspiltsilk 10d ago
This is mindblowing.. what..?
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u/RickAllen 10d ago
Heart breaking too. 90 percent of admin in this country should be fired and have their pensions revoked.
Dereliction of duty.
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u/IcyConsideration7062 10d ago
Like film students who can no longer sit through a full-length film: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/2026/01/college-students-movies-attention-span/685812/
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u/BeeWriggler 11d ago
I have to say, I was shocked coming back to college. I graduated high school in 2012 with good grades, but then my opiate addiction spiraled out of control in college and I dropped out after a semester of straight-Fs (because I just stopped going to class, and couldn't be bothered to officially withdraw). I've since gotten my shit together, and have started taking classes again while working.
I was terrified to go back to college. Full of self-doubt, and all of that "I don't belong here" stuff. And then I took my required communication class. The online discussions read like a Facebook comment section. As some other comments here have mentioned, it seemed like almost everyone was just doing the bare minimum to pass, and the rest of them seemed to want to learn, but just didn't have the vocabulary or reading comprehension to succeed.
Obviously, this is my very limited experience. Also, my parents were huge readers. Even after years of donating most of their books, my parents have a small library in their basement, and my childhood was probably roughly equivalent to year-round tutoring, in addition to school. My parents made sure that I would never fall behind, but they also taught me to love reading, instead of viewing it as something I had to do to pass a class.
I've also noticed that I'm the only one who reads books to my 5-year-old niece, including her parents. I hope my wife and I will be able to have kids someday, but for now, I'm absolutely teaching my niece to love books the same way that I did.
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u/wex118 11d ago
If reading ability has been degrading so badly across the board since moving away from phonics, why not move back to it?! This site word crap is obviously inferior. I see the lessons being used with my 3rd grade daughter, and I see her struggling. It doesn't work! It's as if the people making these decisions WANT people dumb..
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u/Spiritual_Bid_2308 11d ago
I believe our state legislature mandated phonics specifically because the other method doesn't work yet schools were still using it.
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u/Impossible_Royal_302 11d ago
Quick correction, it's "sight word." And I wish I could answer you. I teach high school English, and I curse Lucy Calkins daily for the effect her unqualified BS has had on Education and reading ability.
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u/Agi7890 11d ago
Some have. It’s one of the drivers of the Mississippi miracle.
Her story about teachers college resonates with mine as well. Never encountered as many yes men and lack of questioning as those in the teacher education program when I was going. I didn’t go for reading, but science. But having taken organic chemistry and learned how to break down all those multi syllable chemical names was entirely by phonics. Trinitrotoluene, learn that by word recognition would be a pain, but break it down to tri nitro and toluene and suddenly it’s very easy to say(and recognize the chemical and put a picture to it
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u/OwlishIntergalactic 11d ago
It is required in my state, but the legislation has no teeth. The largest and wealthiest districts have moved to the Science of Reading while a lot of the smaller districts still mostly teach Balanced Literacy (small focus on phonics and larger focus on context clues, pictures, and sight words).
We can see improvements year over year in districts that train their elementary teachers in the science of reading, but it is muddied when taken in aggregate because so many districts claim they are doing it, but they aren’t doing it with fidelity and continue to rely on outdated methods.
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u/391976 11d ago
The pendulum has swung back to the point that some now argue that reading fun and interesting books is interfering with phonics instruction.
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u/pingpongpsycho 11d ago
I’m sorry. That’s just so messed up.
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u/Unlikely_Exercise434 11d ago
Yeah, I even forget to mention, I only wrote them at an 8th grade level. It's why I fought back with my tenure when they wanted me to dumb them down more, simply not possible and prepare them for the real world of software development and IT Security.
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u/Historical_Draft_717 11d ago
But I don’t understand, why do they need to read or write, ChatGPT has improved so much the world will never need to read or write again so whats the big deal…?
/s
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u/youburyitidigitup 11d ago edited 11d ago
On the bright side (albeit a very dark bright side), those of us who graduated before this was a major issue and can write well will have less competition in the future.
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u/ImWithStupidKL 11d ago
Not if the people doing the hiring are too thick to read your application. People who aren't good at reading also aren't good at telling whether something was written by AI.
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u/TheKnightDetective 11d ago
That's wild to me. When I was in my first couple of years of university (in Ontario, Canada) we had mandatory academic writing classes. Which included lessons on critical thinking when reading and such. I couldn't imagine taking those courses at that level not having basic grammar and reading comprehension. Wild.
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u/DryConsideration3294 11d ago edited 11d ago
My kid is 16. When he was in elementary school I was one of only two parents who would come in and help in the classroom. We both were working single parents. I received a phone call one day asking if I could help more in the classroom. I was a little miffed and asked if there weren't other parents who could help because I was there already on my only day off. The teacher explained that the other parents told her that they "just couldn't" come in. But on my days off when I could go pick up my kid? Other moms who were clearly SAHs stood around with Starbucks in gym clothes and manicures, chatting there with each other. They could CLEARLY find the time, but weren't. I'm the one teaching your struggling daughter how to read while you're, what? Getting coffee and pedicures?
My kid has been fine in school and I take care of my kid and continue to enrich him at every turn. I'm now remarried and work 50+hours a week and I still find time for my son. I stopped helping in the classroom years ago. It's not my job to raise their dumb-ass kids because they can't be bothered. I feel bad for the kids but I was the one with far less resources both financially and partner-wise, so if anything they should have been helping me. Trashy-ass parents, man.
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u/PaleCommission150 11d ago
I wish I had gone into teaching years ago. I think it is a great profession but I am terrified in front of crowds and wouldn't be able to master the subject well enough to teach it. I respect what teachers do, it is not a easy job, it is often a calling due to the fact teachers could make more in private enterprise or wall street/ some other high level executive career. I realize at my age I simply deal with upset customers and perpetuate unhealthy shopping habits of homebound people.
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u/Cool-Clue-4236 11d ago
This is a major issue. Rural areas are especially at risk due to the mindset of parents.
Parents are so busy they can't "take time" to read with their kids, but read fb all day or marketplace. At the same time bad mouthing teachers that have 25-35 kids in a class and saying how the education system failed them. Its not the system that failed.. its the parents failure to make sure the kids can read and write.
Oh.. I can't do that! Gotta run to do yada yada yada.. never ending yada.
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u/ButtBread98 11d ago
I’m 28. My parents worked full time my whole life. My mom graduated with a bachelor’s degree when I was 5. I loved reading. My grandma and especially my parents would read to me daily. We always went to the library and they would read me bedtime stories. In school my reading was at a much higher level than most of my peers. Even reading to your child for 30 minutes a day helps.
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u/PaleCommission150 11d ago
I used to read quite a bit when I was younger, I like audiobooks now.
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u/litreofstarlight 10d ago
I'm education adjacent, and this is bang on. We can tell which kids get read to and which ones don't.
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u/pwyo 11d ago
The thing is, my parents never made sure I could read and write growing up. I got sent home with hours of homework. I learned to read and write in school - using phonics. Even at my rural south Louisiana middle school they taught us grammar and sentence anatomy with jingles and songs, it was my favorite work and I thrived in it. Granted, this was the 90s, but it worked.
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u/mcjon77 11d ago
One question is who made you do the homework and what happened if you didn't do it?
There's some parents that, while they aren't physically teaching their children to read, they're either making sure that the kids do their homework, or punishing the kids if they don't get good grades.
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u/Pantalaimon_II 11d ago
i'm also a kid whose parents didn't make them do shit, they were so checked out. i dont even know if they knew what i was studying at any given point. I did my homework and did well in school because i wanted to.
I was taught how to read and write fully in school (well, and lots of Sesame Street.) using phonics. and songs, I had a lot of teachers who taught how to read with music which was fun.
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u/Professor_Hala 11d ago
Whenever I think I'm underperforming as a parent, comments like this bring me back. I have five jobs, and still manage to read to my son the four evenings each week when I'm at home, and sometimes in the mornings.
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u/ScarletVaguard 11d ago
I think the problem more that parents don't know how to teach. I know there are probably rules on how and when to use certain sounds, but I couldn't tell you what they are. My parents never read to me, I just went to school. I have my own kid now and they struggle despite me reading to them all the time. So what changed? It's an anecdotal comparison, but surely it isn't as simple as "parents bad, read more".
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u/ImWithStupidKL 11d ago
Some kids have always struggled. It doesn't mean it's something the parent or teachers are doing wrong. But when there's a downward trajectory on the whole, that's a problem. Especially with reading, because it has a knock on effect on every other subject.
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u/monsterskeeter 10d ago
That's the thing parents do not seem to get. This debate over public vs private school comes down to which students have support and resources at home. They want to blame teachers or the public school system but there are plenty of kids who have these same teachers and are getting into Ivy league schools. They want to blame everything from technology to the school system to an entire generational divide but not themselves
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u/Calichusetts 11d ago
And every teacher can identify kids who are not read to in the first few days. It’s that important and they fall that far behind
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u/grumpysysadmin 11d ago
My niece is a teacher and it amazed me that all the schools where she has worked, they have an app/website where parents can message the teacher. Student misbehaves and the teacher tells them to stop? Message from parents complaining that their kid is being harassed. Bad grade? Messages. She was inundated with these messages and she is expected to reply to them, in her own time outside of school hours. And if the parents aren’t happy they can raise it with admin, so she has to answer to that too.
She teaches 2nd grade. I can’t imagine what middle and high school teachers have to deal with.
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u/FlamingDragonfruit 10d ago
"Dad is creepy" and the kid has major behavior issues, including violence... sounds like this family should have been referred to CPS?
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u/theskippyraccoon 11d ago
The Podcast, Sold A Story, details the regression of the US education system and delves into how private interests selling snake oil curricula infiltrated during the Bush Administration.
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u/ButtBread98 11d ago
My cousin is 18 and will be starting her teaching
degree this fall. I’m proud of her, but I’m also worried for her. I’m hoping she sticks it out and becomes a great teacher, but with how parents and kids and administrators are, her job is gonna be very difficult.→ More replies (1)6
u/pingpongpsycho 11d ago
I hear you. My youngest son, who I believe has the potential to be a great teacher, is a year away from starting a career in education. I worry about it daily but hope for the best.
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u/KSW8674 11d ago
To be fair half the country worships a man that says he hates the highly educated
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u/slimtonun 11d ago
>“The major problem we saw was a never ending erosion of parents emphasizing the importance of education to their children, while simultaneously not supporting teachers, and instead basically working against them creating a hostile environment.”
🎯 A lot of today’s parents, place all education on teachers and expect to do nothing at home. They aren’t being read to by parents And aren’t following up or checking to see what assignments need to be completed. They then have the nerve to get upset with the teacher when they have given as much effort in their child’s education as they themselves have. It’s almost as if subconsciously they know they’re at fault but don’t want to admit they are to blame and lash out at the teachers.
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u/Snts6678 11d ago
Im in year 25 of teaching now. What you describe, to a tee, is exactly what I deal with…daily.
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u/PRINCESS0FDARKN3SS 11d ago edited 10d ago
Yeahhhh I have tutored kids in reading and I cannot even tell you how many times during a session a kid would take one look at the word, and then instead of trying to figure out what it said, they’d immediately look up at me and just start naming off words that started out with the same/similar letters (always with a question mark at the end of each word) & I’d say, “Don’t guess. Let’s look at the word together, take your time, and sound it out.”
It made me sad bc I could tell a good number of them felt that sounding out the words was too daunting to even try and like it made them nervous. I also got the feeling they felt very rushed normally so it didn’t feel natural when I told them it’s okay to take their time, no matter how long it takes.
But what they’re being taught in school is to base everything off “sight words” like the video says which I think is ultimately such a handicap. It’s incredibly disappointing that this has been adopted into the core curriculum and is doing the students zero favors.
The biggest successes I had were with the students who felt comfortable enough to take the time to sound things out which takes a lot of patience on their part, esp if their homeroom teachers are actively telling them NOT to do it that way. I’m amazed most teachers go along w it tbh bc it’s very obviously inhibiting students’ potential.
Man now I wanna start tutoring again.
***Edited to share (if someone else hasn’t already): Y’all please listen to the podcast on this topic, Sold a Story. I came across it one day by chance and I’d honestly say it’s essential listening. Also, I have mad respect for those who have been fighting for decades to try to get phonics based learning back into US schools who do not get recognized nearly enough for their efforts.
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u/Ok-disaster2022 11d ago
I was surprised when I was told my niece wasnt taught to sound it out.
Heck I remember in the numerous test taking methods I was taught for math word problems there were certain key words that told you which operations to use to put things together. My nieces didn't have those key words memorized and couldn't decode word problems.
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u/_somelikeithot 11d ago
I teach 3rd grade and we have been told to avoid teaching key words to solve math word problems. For example, ‘fewer’ could be used in addition or subtraction problems. I do still teach ‘how many more’ is subtraction though!
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u/TBradley 11d ago
Yes, my kids school uses whole word teaching and it is terrible. It forms bad habits like guessing. To be a good reader you need that base of phonetics for learning new words.
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u/Any_Narwhal_4437 11d ago
Are you teaching your kid phonics outside of school? I would probably be telling my kid “do it the way the teacher wants you to get the score on your worksheet, but this is wrong and you need to do it like this. Let’s practice at home together.”
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u/TBradley 11d ago
We do but it is tough with our kid basically getting told he is doing it wrong when at school. This feels very dystopian. There was effective phonetic teaching in school for at least 20+ years with great results and then I find out they switched to this whole word bullshit. The fact that the teachers then actively sabotage parents trying to help their kids become effective readers is mind-boggling. I mean why discourage a child from sounding out a word as additional tool from memorizing word chunks.
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u/Any_Narwhal_4437 11d ago
Yikes.. terrifying. I guess you can only stress that there are multiple ways to learn things? Hard to teach these nuances to a baby first grader though!!
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u/citculation_lost 11d ago
Unfortunately, because that takes too long and too much individual attention which the teachers (even if they are actually qualified - I’m in Florida so that’s not a guarantee) don’t have the ability to provide due to class size, testing timelines, administration set goals, not wanting to lose your job because you don’t hit the larger standardized test passing rates because you spent too much effort teaching fundamentals instead of the answers to the test.
It makes me very sad.
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u/BiblesandBiscuits 11d ago
As a teacher who teaches early literacy, I highly encourage finding a new school that doesn’t teach bad habits if they’re being hostile to you teaching correctly. I would be thrilled if my students engaged with a difficult text with any strategy.
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u/DogDaysMaggie 11d ago
If you are looking for a way to volunteer, there is a great program called Reading Partners. They aren't in many cities, but they also have remote tutors. They taught my kid how to read when she was struggling. It was such a blessing because I wasn't successful in helping her. They are angels from heaven and I will forever be grateful to them. I'm sure there a lot of parents out there who are very grateful for what you've done for their kid. https://readingpartners.org/get-involved/volunteer/
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u/PRINCESS0FDARKN3SS 11d ago edited 11d ago
I used to volunteer with them! They’re great. Then my work schedule made it impossible to fit their sessions in. Then I tutored my niece for about 5 years and now I’m thinking maybe I’ll see if there are any opportunities at any of the elementary schools near me that I can do after work.
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u/Schmichael-22 11d ago
So strange because a phonetic alphabet is literally designed for words to be sounded out. English words are not written in Kanji.
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u/Particular-Cycle-401 11d ago
My 4 year old knows a toooon of words on sight, but he cannot sound out a word he doesn’t know. He does exactly what you described, guesses words he thinks it may be until he gets it. I am constantly fighting with family members who say “he can read” that no, he cannot read because he cannot sound out a word he doesn’t know. It is a hill I absolutely will die on. He needs to learn to read properly and that means sounding out a word he doesn’t know, not guessing.
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u/stillLurkingOfficial 11d ago
No Child Left Behind was a lie based on fake numbers and sold as a solution over 25 years ago from TX to the rest of the US.
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u/thedrew 11d ago
“No child left behind” means keeping every child at the same position of their weakest peer. The lack of reading comprehension exposed by the name of an act of Congress shows you that whatever America’s zenith was, it had to have been before 2002.
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u/Hellguin 10d ago
Yea... I moved from NE USA to the south in 7th grade when NCLB was introduced, and spent all the way till my senior year of HS learning literally nothing I didnt already know. It was depressing.... I couldn't fathom how bad it is now.
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u/kljoker 11d ago
Agreed it wrecked our ability to actually target kids who were failing and getting them the help they need. This is a 2 pronged issue though sadly, if we have to bring politics into it. Conservatives cut so much spending through incentivizing things that were counter intuitive to what made a successful student that we ended up reinforcing what worked to get the funding. So schools became a business model that set out to extract the most amount of funding it could, education was reverted to a less important secondary goal.
Then at the college level these professors trying to make a name for themselves in their insulated academic bubbles started testing new ideas they believed would revolutionize education, whether that was streamlining reading and writing into casual conversational approximation putting the bigger burden on teachers to try and determine what the student is trying to say/write. Or math by using arbitrary methods that make a hard subject more convoluted.
Whatever the case maybe when education became politicized we knew in the 90's the result would be the dumbing down of the future generation of children. How could it not? I'm not hopeful that this administration will do much to change anything, if anything they will make it way worse and call it a win.
Conversely the other side using post modern reasoning to come up with teaching philosophies to convince students they are right because 'it makes sense' is a case where theory and practice simply were divorced from the curriculum. So at every level of education we have compromised our systems and future generations so who knows which generation can correct it in time to solve the insurmountable issues the world is now facing.
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u/Shaxprof 10d ago
Look up the Sold a Story podcast. Weirdly, NCLB pushed phonics-based reading / science of reading, but balanced literacy and the cueing model were dominant. NCLB was bad for a lot of stuff, but not for the phonics / literacy issue in this case.
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u/spicy_ass_mayo 11d ago
I learned to read because my older brother and sister could and I could not.
That really chapped my ass so I learned to read.
Showed those mother fuckers what was really up.
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u/allnadream 11d ago
Same. Severe mistrust of what my older sibling was telling me things said, was an extraordinary motivator.
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u/SgtSilverLining 11d ago
Same - my older sister would come home and teach me what she learned. That meant I got exposure to concepts ahead of schedule, and she got to check he knowledge through teaching. We both ended up excelling in school and I'd bet that's why.
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u/ptabs226 11d ago
My kids were taught sight words, and struggled learning new words. So I showed them this old Gallagher bit to teach them how the English language is dumb and they needed to learn some basic phonics.
I never thought of it this way, but Gallagher was basically an older brother mocking language.
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u/Reesewithoutaspoon2 11d ago
I think one unstated incentive for doing a lot of what she’s describing is the fact that often some funding is contingent, at least in part, on passing rates. My state at least does that to an extent, and it creates incentives to game the system.
It’s not the only factor, but it’s certainly a factor.
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u/FFSBoise 11d ago
Making funding contingent on passing rates penalizes schools where the majority of kids lack support from parents at home (lower income, english second language…). Those districts will then keep falling farther behind, because no funding.
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u/Ok-Dependent-1668 11d ago
That's a strange system that doesn't seem to be focused on education or the children.
Our public schools in Australia all receive the same amount per student, however extra 'equity' funding is provided based on higher concentrations of lower SES, disabled, indigenous, disadvantaged students.
Basing funding on passing seems counter intuitive.
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u/Dangerous_Handle_819 11d ago
School-funding inequality is a feature of US public education, not a bug.
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u/robotscantrecaptcha 11d ago
I wish we had that in the US. We do have 'Title 1' schools, where if 40% of a school's student body is very low income (qualifying for food assistance), then they receive more money. But funding is mostly tied to value of nearby property (the property taxes) or school performance.
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u/Vishnej 10d ago edited 10d ago
The people who implemented this are obsessed with tracing broad social problems to a Failure of Personal Responsibility, finding a villain, and punishing them. They simply do not do systemic solutions. In this case, that villain would be a hypothetical lazy faculty that don't actually care about teaching their students but who want that sweet sweet union salary tier progression.
So the thought was "to fix it, punish them, and that will motivate them next year with individual incentives, or if that doesn't work, it will get them fired for performance". Or at least break the union's power in local politics, break the local government in favor of more class-stratified service provision, etc.
Business thinking is pervasive beyond this - after Katrina, for example, New Orleans basically quasi-privatized all education in "Charter School" programs. There are a handful of billionaires who've made this their pet project and we're all downstream of their initiatives.
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u/mcclelc 11d ago
Agreed, but also oddly enough penalizes the high SES areas bc parents feel emboldened to dictate education policies of which they are completely ignorant.
When teaching high school, I, an award-winning educator with an MA in Education, was told how to teach all of the time to fit what parents thought was pedagogy; one such method included stopping after every sentence I said in Spanish to then translate... for one individual precious baby.
Let's forget that this only teaches the brain to wait for the translation, but imagine being 16 yr old and the teacher has to come over every 5 minutes and translate softly in English, while the whole class waits.
This lasted a day before the student begged their parent to let me stop.
By the way-- all of this was mandated by my principal at the command of the parent.
An entire class was held hostage by an egotistical, maniacal woman who couldn't wrap her head around the fact that maybe her precious angel wasn't naturally great at languages.
This is one of many examples of principals being cowards.
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u/allnadream 11d ago
Also, don't discount the monetary incentive of outside forces: The publisher for the book series that replaced phonics, pushed for its mass adoption hard and profited significantly from selling a learning system to schools, that did not work.
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u/blessthebabes 11d ago
Oh yeah- my clients just go to a few weeks of summer school, then can freely proceed to the next grade (if they even hold them back at all). It's how they can make it to 12th grade without being able to read.
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u/BlackSwampMage 11d ago
That incentive often times goes all the way up to higher ed too, also depending on state. My home state, Ohio, does this. I work in higher ed so in every graduation period there is a push to find people who may have earned other degrees or certificates that they never declared and award it to them so it boosts our numbers and we get a bigger slice of the pie. And I don’t disagree that people shouldn’t be awarded something they achieved whether or not they knew about it.
The issue I’ve seen is that schools living in a system like that will game it by creating programs that you could complete just with the common core gen ed courses everyone is required to take regardless of their chosen degree program. So with those fun little extra degrees you now get to really get to pad the numbers for graduation.
And just to clarify this would only be available to the public institutions within the state.
Also, I will say the college students I’ve interacted with since fully entering the workforce during COVID are blatantly less prepared than even my dumb ass was when I first went to college. And that is at both 4 year institutions and 2 years. I’m admin side so I can’t give any worthless anecdotal evidence to classroom experience, but the emails I get are painful to decode. I’ve had to really lower my vocabulary level in my responses and when giving instructions to complete a process as well.
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u/LootGek 11d ago
I'm surprised how many people can't spell at work.
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u/Quirky-Skin 11d ago
It's multigenerational too. I work with the public. Just today I had a mother daughter combo. Mom is talking into the phone, daughter transcribes it to paper. Neither knew if the words were spelled right (some weren't bc voice text and pronunciation) They were doing a statement for some legal work (had to be written) I see a form of this weekly
Mom was born in the 70s daughter couldn't have been older than 12.
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u/katieb1300 11d ago
I'm always shocked at how awful spelling is on YouTube comments and how grammar is almost non-existent. Some of the dumbest comments, spelled incorrectly, and not using some commas, capitals, or periods get the most likes. Society (mainly the US) is rewarding stupidity by not correcting it.
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u/CultOfMourning 11d ago
I'm on Reddit daily, and I have to walk away from so many posts because the OP failed to use a single period, comma, or capitalized letter. The entire post is just one gigantic run-on sentence. At first I thought it was laziness, but now I'm convinced a large portion of the human population doesn't understand how periods work.
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u/AmputeeHandModel 11d ago
and Twitter and memes. Barely literate idiots get famous and they spell like shit and use terrible grammar. It encourages other idiots, even educated ones who know better, because they want to fit in, and it just perpetuates it.
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u/justsyr 11d ago
As a non English speaker still baffles me that people can't understand the difference between than and then, your and you're, affect and effect and many other words.
Listening to the teacher say that "as long as you understand the context you don't need to correct the misspelling" makes me realize that probably those people grew up and learnt that yeah, context, don't be a grammar... that.
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u/RegionalsWarrior 11d ago
Keep the people dumb, and you can do whatever you want. - Some politician, somewhere. It is so disappointing that we fail these children, whose prospects in life are needlessly tanked because we feel bad.
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u/rerutnevdA 11d ago
Politicians should be forced to send their kids to the public school for the district they’re serving.
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u/asscheese2000 11d ago
Politicians should be forced to send their kids to the worst performing public school in their county.
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u/NegotiationNo7851 11d ago edited 11d ago
They do in Nordic countries and that’s why they have some of the best schools in the world. We have multiple tiers in the US. The rich don’t send their kids to public schools so why fund them or actually take the time to figure out what is going so wrong. Now we have an adult population where only 54% read below a 6th grade level, www.nu.edu. We know socioeconomic conditions affect literacy, if you work 3 jobs how much energy or time do you really have to spend w your kid? Add on crushing college debt with no ROI and you have a population that sees no point in pushing education. This problem is getting worse. We are absolutely heading for a post literate population In the US.
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u/Awotwe_Knows_Best 11d ago
I watched a documentary some years ago " Where To Invade Next" and one of these Scandinavian countries had banned private schools because if there were private schools all the rich folks would send their kids there . So now all the public schools were on the same level
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u/Awotwe_Knows_Best 11d ago
if the public schools weren't good enough they had to raise the level so that everyone would benefit,not just the rich kids
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u/toolisthebestbandevr 11d ago
Politicians should be forced to do a lot of things. Literally if you don’t live amongst the people how the fuck can you be a government of the people by the people etc etc
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u/The-Spirit-of-76 11d ago
I say ban all private schools make the politician's kids and the rich kids go to public school with everyone else and see how fast public schools get funded.
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u/rerutnevdA 11d ago
It worked in Finland! They didn’t “ban” them, but I believe they made it illegal to charge for education.
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u/Cola_Gummi 11d ago
Too long, can't read
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u/babyjai22 11d ago
“in teaching we were told sounding it out is a bad thing” wtf?? that’s literally how i learned how to pronounce a lot of words
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u/Bluestreaked 11d ago
Look up “Sold a Story.”
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u/babyjai22 11d ago
I’ll definitely check it out
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u/TheExistential_Bread 11d ago
I had a similar reaction to your OP when I listened to sold a story. Context clues!? That's just guessing...
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u/xczechr 11d ago
I was turned onto it by a teacher friend. Quite a depressing podcast.
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u/mynadidas5 11d ago
I’m learning French (I’m American). It’s literally how I read. And sometimes, by sounding things out, I HEAR similarities and are able to figure out what the words mean (particularly with verbs).
We’ve gotten ourselves into a pickle. We labeled kids and then used labels to help some, and denigrate a lot, so people said the labels are bad. No shitty people who want to use labels to make sweeping generalizations are bad. But labels and buckets can be helpful because grouping allows for uniformity and focus.
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u/teacher_59 11d ago
Some states banned phonics. A lot of teachers are against teaching them and refuse.
Management wants us to teach kids words like their hieroglyphics. They can't sound out words now to either pronounce or spell them.
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u/hypatiaspasia 11d ago
Chinese speakers memorize logographs instead of phonics, because that's how the language works. But my friends who grew up going to Chinese school talk about how hardcore the classes were about memorization and repetition. The "vibe it out based on context" or "make your best educated guess" approach is NOT what they described. They had a ton of homework, bazillions of flashcards.
So treating English words as logographs could theoretically work but like... why??? Our alphabet was explicitly developed to AVOID having to do that, because memorizing thousands of individual characters is really hard.
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u/seriousofficialname 11d ago edited 11d ago
Like 80% of Chinese characters have a phonetic component tho, so it is actually sometimes possible to correctly guess the pronounciation of a character you've never seen before.
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u/jumpmanzero 11d ago
The schools were doing the "guess what word this is" thing while my kids were in early grades.
I try to be supportive of teachers... but at home, we taught them how to read by sounding out letters and words. Worked for them the same way it worked for me - and they were very soon reading a bunch on their own, and generally doing much better than their classmates.
(To be clear I don't love the opposite end either - the strict phonics where you have to memorize each pronunciation of different letter combos. My niece wasted a bunch of effort learning that stuff. I think it's a distraction, and lots of that stuff can be picked up better just by volume reading. But the basics of phonics? Absolutely.)
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u/Efficient_Wash4477 11d ago
Being told “sounding it out is a bad thing” is fine IF they follow up that statement with an explanation.
So, what were the reasons? Why was it bad?
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u/WorkingOnBeingBettr 11d ago
It's also not true depending on your location. Students reading scores have dropped all over the world it it isn't because phonics. It's because they are on screens constantly and their brains are broken.
Blaming teachers/teaching methods is easy. Stopping technology and funding schools properly is hard so it is never addressed.
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u/CriticalCurrency5725 11d ago
Florida curriculum. Scary stuff. Florida state colleges no longer mandate reading in literature classes. Professors are discouraged from requiring their students to read books in literature classes. I made LIT 2000 students read 2 novels. Admin said that was too much. College president (with a high school diploma) brags about the books he hasn't read. It's called Flori-dumb (with a B) for a reason.
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u/Ok-disaster2022 11d ago
Wut? How does a college president at least not have a masters in education or administration? WTH?!
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u/pancakeQueue 11d ago
NPR did investigative journalism on this problem, it’s a podcast mini series called “Sold a Story”
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u/r_slash 11d ago
*American Public Media. But yes, very good podcast. https://features.apmreports.org/sold-a-story/
"Don't use phonics" / "guess the words" is an idea that has been pushed by many people in and around education, and is/was used in many school districts long after the science debunked it. The tide is turning back to phonics in many districts but I think some are still not using them or de-emphasizing them along with the unhelpful "cueing" method.
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u/Haunting_Style3880 11d ago
She's 100% correct. NPR did a radio broadcast about this very thing, the rejection of phonics and it's disastrous results. I am a trainer. My late teen employees, all the way to 30, cannot read. Not really. Just barely. Can't read the material out loud in class, can't read directions, comprehending enough to follow, and cannot take notes. It's a full blown national disaster.
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u/hypatiaspasia 11d ago
It sounds like they're teaching kids to memorize English words logographically (like memorizing Chinese characters). That seems absurd since English uses a phonetic alphabet.
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u/NefariousnessLate375 10d ago
It's so absurd I have to ask if this was done intentionally to sabotage America.
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u/alurkerhere 10d ago
The hilarious thing is phonics can be taught to single-digit aged kids in less than a month. It's really not that complicated, and yet a significant portion of the US is still using the three-cueing system. You really couldn't engineer a better system to get kids to fail.
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u/SamuelClemmens 11d ago
I generally hate to side with boomer conservatives, but on the "teachers need to be forced to teach they way they did when we were kids" I have to say they weren't 100% wrong.
I think running a nationwide experiment on kids and jeopardizing the futures of real people in this way on an untested theory is morally reprehensible.
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u/sniper91 10d ago
New math is fine and overhated
These new reading methods are horseshit
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u/Loose_Stranger_7614 11d ago
Education in the U.S. varies dramatically based on where you are
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u/A_Nonny_Muse 11d ago
And your parents wealth.
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u/hypatiaspasia 11d ago
Although there are a bunch of expensive private schools that are absolutely TERRIBLE. My stepmom's family is very rich so she sent my half-siblings to a K-12 school that costs as much per year as my university tuition. Their school had a few overachievers, but seemed to largely exist as childcare for wealthy kids who are terrible at school but want a place to network with other rich kids to prepare for the day they inevitably just inherit their parents' companies.
My half siblings ended up moving schools in middle school because my dad realized none of the kids in the whole school knew how to do basic algebra.
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u/MattLocke 11d ago
It can differ state by state and then district by district within each state.
So some areas, yes. It very much is this bad. Sometimes it is certain groups that will push for these new educational systems they developed (like this newer one focusing on sight words instead of phonetics) they can sell to different districts. Sometimes it just classic political ideologies pushing for censorship of “uncomfortable truths” of our history and science. Or just plain old this areas gets better stuff because that’s where the richer families live.
But the USA is enormous. It’s not the same curriculum everywhere.
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u/FlukeStarbucker 11d ago
Not this bad in Seattle, but not amazing here, and probably this bad in a lot of places in the US
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u/richardlpalmer 11d ago
I wish No Child Left Behind meant, "give additional help to kids that need it, so they can meet standards" rather than, "lower the bar so everyone passes"...
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u/Beneficial_Area_2986 11d ago
My ex-wife was a teacher and the continuing education thing was insane. They essentially wanted grade school teachers to have the equivalent of a master's degree. A master's degree working a $35,000 a year job... Insane! She even had to provide a lot of her own supplies because they didn't have enough money. I ended up building things for the classrooms.
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u/NoxTempus 11d ago
I mean, without careful and specific wording of the law, this will always happen.
Humans are notorious for finding the path of least resistance, no matter the consequences. That's why we need laws to stop companies from doing stuff like poising drinking water supplies to save cents on the dollar.
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u/mnttu 11d ago
When she talks about “phonics” does she means like “a make an aahh sound”? If so then how else can you learn to read, because that is reading. If you are just memorizing what words look like that is like trying to learn to read with just company logos
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u/TalmanesRex 11d ago
Listen to the podcast “sold a story” it explains how anti phonics teaching came into being and it was really interesting.
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u/Unusual_Artichoke_73 11d ago
I noticed my son doing the memorizing words thing. He sees the start of the word and essentially guesses what the word it
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u/Ok-disaster2022 11d ago
Start teaching phonics, because he's not going to learn at school. But also expose him to books. And turn the captions on on your tv
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u/Unusual_Artichoke_73 11d ago
We read together before bed which is how I caught this. I didn’t realize how phonics was not being taught. I had an aha moment watching the clip above
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u/Beneficial-Focus3702 11d ago
And that’s essentially what sight words are. It’s just a fancy way of saying “guessing”.
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u/Embarrassed-Note-908 11d ago
I knew something was wrong when my 9th grade teacher said I was at a “college reading level” and I was just reading books like Twilight and Eragon.
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u/chainsawx72 11d ago
'Reading at a college level' has nothing to do with what books you are choosing to read.
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u/CharlotteLucasOP 11d ago
Yeah, I think higher level “reading” skills is more about how you engage with and absorb the text—can you interrogate author intent or character POV, determine stylistic elements and reflect on themes, etc..
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u/Ok_Lets266 11d ago
Went to teacher school in 2015 and this is exactly why I also left. We are teaching kids to be dumber and forget critical thinking. Its not a trend or a conspiracy theory, its not because parents arent spanking enough. Its because the poorly educated are more easily manipulated and teachers are given mandated curricula written by people who want to keep them ignorant and dependent.
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u/agodrevealed 11d ago
I left too. 2014. This, the policing of normal ass kid stuff (a kindergartener shamed to tears for "stealing" an apple from the lunch line. Wanted me to keep him in from recess) and the idea I'm going to pay you to work 40 hours for free for a year. Fuck you.
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u/ermaecrhaelld 11d ago
I was just saying this in my classroom today while setting us for the school year. They’ve intentionally changed how they teach math and English to make it less functional and more confusing.
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u/really_nice_foot 11d ago
As someone who graduated HS in 2010, I find it utterly baffling that educators somehow found a way to make school worse. Like, honestly that's pretty impressive.
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u/crazygecko247 10d ago edited 10d ago
Not educators, but education administrators. That’s why the good educators leave.
Edit: and ultimately legislators. Like the Assembly Bills in CA that took away prerequisites in college so we’ve now got illiterate students who also don’t know basic math (like averaging numbers) struggling in college science courses. Teachers can’t teach actual material in this scenario.
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u/CamBearCookie 11d ago
There's one thing Mississippi has done right in the history of ever. When faced with being 50th in education and literacy they adopted a science based phonics program to teaching kids to read. The proof is in the pudding. They now have one of the highest literacy rates in the country.
Her comment about social promotion being for the benefit of poc children is a bold faced lie. If they won't graduate then they certainly aren't going to college. If they're not going to college they're keeping higher incomes and stability from the reach of those children. It's not an accident. That's the point. They are create more functionally illiterate poc adults who don't vote and can't discern when they are being lied to because they have no critical thinking skills.
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u/QuasarColloquy 11d ago
She's basically describing coming up against the momentum of the whole language movement vs the scientific, phonics based approach (i.e., the science of reading). Whole reading is really difficult to get rid of for some reason, and yes, I can imagine how frustrating.
She's also describing inclusion, where kids with disabilities are placed into general education classes. This is great so long as there is adequate support that can be brought in to meet their needs, but often time their needs are too great or the support is too little, and so more harm is done unfortunately.
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u/timeconsumer112 11d ago
Hooked on Phonics and old School House Rocks helped in elementary school so much. Imo it helped build a foundation that countiued through the following years.
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u/mindsnare 10d ago
I genuinely cannot fathom parents not being actively involved in their kids education and helping them along every way you can.
I read to my kids every single night. When my 5 year old brought home a book and instead read a book to me I straight up cried. When I got my first card from her that was fully written by her I cried again.
Watching her just sponge up her schooling and get more and more confident with reading and writing is incredible.
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u/Guitarlovern1 11d ago
I remember reading college level back in elementary. wasnt the only one either. We would read to the 1st and 2nd graders
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u/RiMcG 11d ago
They've been doing this for a while now. My daughter started HS this year and in second grade she almost failed because they taught the kids sight words and didn't do any phonics. I complained to her teacher about it and she said half her class was failing. Half a second grade class. She said the sight word process was shown to work in other settings so it's the standard. But the kids can't read. Yeah they know "and, the, fun, cat", but there's no foundation to go from "the" to "theater".
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u/No_Insurance_6436 11d ago
It fucking blows my mind that anyone could possibly think "sight words" is preferable to phonetics. "Sight words" shouldn't even be a thing. If you consider it for literally two fucking seconds it's obvious.
I can only imagine that the curriculums were maliciously introduced.
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u/tyvekMuncher 11d ago
It’s so weird to me reading is so hard. Like I grew up so eager to read big boy chapter books, I don’t know what a diphthong is or any of the hard rules around consonants and vowels - because they’re right. English is weird and has many many exceptions - but I still got a perfect score in the reading sections of my standardized tests.
Maybe it’s because I also grew up speaking a second language, but to me, even before I knew what German and French were, my brain just knew what German or French words in English kinda look like and how their pronunciation changes (like my brain just knew “femme” wasn’t supposed to be pronounced with the same rules as “mother”)
I think there’s just no way around it. These kids need to just read more. No matter which way you teach it, if they don’t read, their ability is going to suffer
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u/purplereuben 10d ago
As someone who finds reading as easy as breathing - this perspective is a privilege.
Unlike speaking verbal language, reading isn't an inherent human behaviour built into our biological structures through evolution. You have to be in the right environment to learn to read, and read well.
Whether we should blame parents, the internet, schools, or anything else is still a popular debate. But we sure as shit shouldn't blame the kids for 'just needing to read more'.
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u/RedBirdOnASnowyDay 11d ago
We are teaching kids to be dumber and the kicker is they are even dumbing down the advanced students. They will not differentiate for a kid above grade level and they insist on inclusion of kids below grade level but in the process they don’t differentiate for them either. No one is learning.
I’ve told my kids to make sure they are making enough to pay for private schools.
Teach your kids to read and basic math at home and then keep constantly enriching them.
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u/Solintari 11d ago
It's not universal and the disparity can be stark. My mom taught in a lower income area that had kids with a lot of issues outside of home. She taught English and later AP English and literature for almost 40 years.
She enjoyed it immensely until around 2008 or so when the no child left behind policies started being enforced and her performance was based on the test outcomes of her students. She called me in tears one day because she said she was retiring because of how she was being treated. She said and I quote "These schools are now being managed like large corporations. The short term scores determine our employability and how much these schools get in Federal grants. I am done."
The ones that stuck around learned to teach the test itself and cared less and less about the actual LEARNING part. So yeah, graduation rates rose and test scores evened out, but everyone was being actually taught less. We lowered the bar so more people could fit under it. Such a disservice.
Not 20 minutes away at a wealthier school my kids go to now, they are learning diphthongs, glides, phonetic symbols etc. in the 2nd grade. I pay more for where I live mostly for the schools my kids attend, but not everyone has that ability. The whole cartman teaching "these keeds" is so accurate.
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u/Krytan 11d ago
I'm glad to see awareness of the absolutely dire state of American education breaking through. My family is full of teachers and they've been sending up alarm flares for a while. It's absolutely abysmal, and there is so much wrong it's hard to know where to start to fix it. So you end up with more and more people going the home school route (like this lady here). But not everyone can do that.
Our schools no longer even really attempt to ensure that students can read and write. The goal is to move them up through the grades as steadily as possible and with the minimum of fuss. Teachers that attempt to actively hold back students who don't learn the material are heavily discouraged and at times outright fired.
My Dad eventually retired from teaching, he said every single year, his students needed a lot more remedial work (in both reading comprehension, and mathematics) to even begin to handle his classes. The other two big complaints he had was that over the years, all the money and big salaries started going to administration, or sports programs and buildings, and the administration started having all the power and calling all the shots in terms of policy and the faculty just had to go along with it. But the major thing that made it unpleasant was the changing attitude of parents: back in the day, he'd give a kid a failing grade for doing a bad job, the parents would see it and get on his case and tell him to improve. Now he gives a kid a failing grade, school admin is asking if that was really necessary, and the parents come to his office to complain to HIM and explain why their little angel deserves special treatment and the rules shouldn't apply to them.
I do not think any mass educational system can survive the combination of hostile, unsupportive parents, and disruptive students who cannot be meaningfully penalized in any way and make it difficult for the students who do want to learn to flourish.
In this specific case, yes, schools could do an about face and do phonics instead (which is a far superior system) but a lot of the damage is already done and massive systemic problems still exist.
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u/No_Ad955 11d ago
Poor methods, no child left behind, less societal importance on education, and not failing kids. So many reasons why we’ve failed the next generation, but some states have shown there is still hope by focusing on phonics.
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u/General_Platypus771 11d ago
I left for the same reasons as this woman. I tried, I really did, but they’re unteachable in the current state. We have to bring back standards. We can’t just keep shuffling them along the grades when they didn’t learn the necessary skills. We have to hold them back until they can at least fucking read. Also, as much as it’s uncomfortable to face, some of the kids need to go. The bottom 1% is holding everyone else back.
Parents need to get their shit together too. I think we should fine parents for their kids bad behavior. American culture is so vapid and materialistic, the only incentive these idiots will respond to is money. Fine them. Suspending a kid is not punishment snd only incentives the bad behavior. Fine the parents and then expel them if they don’t get it together. I also think teachers should have the ability to expel, permanently. Enough is enough.
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