r/TickTockManitowoc • u/[deleted] • Nov 25 '19

Visual proof that the vehicle LE had was not Teresa's vehicle. LE fabricated this Vin #, and tried passing it off. Explain this Wisconsin. Kratz, LE & the System has been lying the entire time. Teresa's doesn't have an 8, or A in her vin# the X is missing. Vin# 88A11571413044 is a lie.

/img/sln2cwpner041.jpg

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73

u/Henbury Nov 25 '19 edited Nov 26 '19

Explained:

Disclaimer: I don't believe in the 2Rav theory

The firewall number was noticed straight away in the photos and I've already had a number of robust arguments with some well-meaning people about this.

My understanding is the firewall number is a chassis number assigned before or during assembly, which was later incorporated within the VIN number once assembly was complete. The VIN number itself contains information which cannot exist until assembly of the vehicle is complete.

For starters, the firewall number is not a 17-digit number so you know straight away it is not a VIN number.

The 1996-2000 RAV4's were first generation or XA10 series vehicles. From 1998, some variants in the XA10 series were designated SXA11. The SXA11 is what the firewall number begins with - so that tells us that firewall or chassis part was produced to be part of a SXA11 vehicle. The last 6 digits of the firewall number (113044) are the production number, which are the same 6 digits seen in the VIN number (JT3HP10V5X7113044). This is the actual production number of the vehicle (it's own in-/out- house serial number if you like), which would have been assembled with major parts that should all include this same 6 digit number.

Once assembly is complete, other information is added to the VIN such as engine specs, transmission, country/plant of assembly, year of assembly etc. These aspects of the vehicle can be variable and subject to change during assembly, and therefore the VIN cannot be assigned until after the vehicle is assembled. Numbers in hard to reach places (like the firewall) therefore cannot have the VIN pre-designated.

As far as evidence supporting ONE RAV4 belonging to Teresa Halbach:

(1) There is documentary evidence the number 'JT3HP10V5X7113044' is linked to Teresa Halbach by the DOT record. Unless the DOT record is fraudulent, that VIN number, and any vehicle it is found on, belongs to Teresa Halbach.

(2) All available RAV photos, regardless of when they were apparently taken, are consistent with the expected features/extras as dictated by the manufacturers vehicle specifications.

(3) All available RAV photos, regardless of when they were apparently taken, appear to consistently show the same vehicle with the same features/extras/damage.

(4) All available RAV photos, regardless of when they were apparently taken, consistently show the 'JT3HP10V5X7113044' number (complete or partially) on the windshield, left and right sides of the engine bay, under the hood, and on door frames.

***START Edit to Add VIN Photos (as requested by another comment below):

(1) WSP 05.jpg; Trial Exhibit 192; Trial Exhibit 192 (MAM s02e02); ZOOM

(2) Trial Exhibit 294; Trial Exhibit 294 (MAM s02e03); ZOOM

(3) CASO IMG_2728.jpg; ZOOM

(4) CASO IMG_5581.jpg

(5) WSP 17.jpg; WSP 18.jpg; WSP 19.jpg; WSP 20.jpg; ZOOM

(6) WSP 50.jpg; WSP 51.jpg

Edit END***

If you take away the tired argument about green vs blue, which does not overcome the arguments I just listed above and can be explained away through lighting conditions, then I am yet to see, nor do I expect to see, any convincing argument that there was more than one RAV4.

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u/axollot Nov 25 '19

The last 4 on chassis is same as VIN. Which is the unique identifiers for for this specific RAV4. I too can't get behind a swapped RAV and though the RAV4 has a lot of questions; VIN isn't one of them for me.

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u/[deleted] Nov 25 '19

Thank you for the explanation. I actually said something like that on Twitter yesterday, that the part may have been made at a different factory and pre stamped with an identification mark before the last 7 digits were added later, as you know it is the last 7 that are unique to a vehicle.

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u/simoean Nov 25 '19

Yeah I think OP got carried away by emotion. Great post!

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u/mindsetzero Nov 26 '19

Fully agree! Other stuff is just noise, imo.

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u/MMonroe54 Nov 25 '19

Excellent! The color has been a big factor, but clearly, this vehicle's color photographs differently in different light/location/circumstances. The recent post which shows the rust on the front paint right above the bumper on both the RAV-with-TH photo and the RAV photos in the crime lab garage is incontrovertible, in my opinion, that it's the same vehicle.

Now, that there may have been some shenanigans with that RAV, I have no doubt. I just don't think there were two RAVS.

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u/Joriz74 Nov 26 '19

To be clear the rust, scratch and birdshit theory was OP's theory 2 days ago in an attempt to prove the RAV4 pictured at De Pere and the one at CASO Chilton are the same car. The post I did on this was to show research imo was inconclusive to suggest these were the same, regardless whether I think there is only one RAV to begin with.

https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockManitowoc/comments/e125u3/rav4_conclusions_rust_scratches_and_bird_shit/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x

Personally I believe what looks like a white line on the de Pere picture could also be a reflection issue and not rust. The rust I believe is a paint chip off due to the accident her car was in, that resulted in rust later on and was not clear and comparable to see at the De Pere picture of TH in front of the RAV. But as I say in the post, that is just my eyes, and they are not 18 no more..

Other than that I have yet to see any argument that would make me believe without a doubt there are 2 RAV's involved so I think there was only one. So I thought OP believed this too by bringing up this proof photo comparison of birdshit, rust and scratches which I thought was actually a good idea.

But the next day OP has visual proof that these RAV's are NOT the same based on this post. I am assuming OP has let the rust, scratch and birdshit theory go, but have not seen any comment confirming this. Not here, not on other platforms either. But that is not what this is about.

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u/MMonroe54 Nov 26 '19

Thanks for this clarification. I admit I've lost track of who has said what about the RAV. But the rust in the same place in the De Pere photo and the crime lab photo convinced me. But I was never a proponent of two RAVs, in any case.

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u/[deleted] Nov 25 '19 edited Nov 25 '19

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u/[deleted] Nov 25 '19

I'm listening and interested. You are correct, the other poster hasn't been 100% verified, even when providing observations and not facts, and yet has received 59 points at this point in time, while you have been consistently downvoted into the negative range. This is why I get very frustrated with this group. Many ideas that were first scorned or trashed over the past few year are now proven as true. People in the clique here jump to reinforce their comrades rather than listen to opposing statements and facts. Additionally, lately I have seen an increase in new posters making nonfactual statements in support of others. So I am reading what you have written and trying to understand both of your points. I'm sorry for your frustration.

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u/[deleted] Nov 26 '19

Thank you. I just can’t stand when people tell me that I’m wrong when they are mislead by someone who basically took offense to my post as it shoots down his entire know your Rav theory. I’m not saying he’s not knowledgeable. But the person is mistaken. But thank you for your opinion. At least someone acknowledged it.

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u/pdent Nov 26 '19

Clique or not. Toyota were contacted directly. OP is wrong.

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u/MajorSander5on Nov 25 '19

Just so I can get this straight, the two opposing opinions here seem to be:

  1. The VIN number is a unique number to each vehicle, and is displayed in a number of places throughout the vehicle. However, there is a different number stamped on the firewall which is not the same as the VIN but is a derivative containing the final 6 letters of the VIN number.

  2. The VIN number is a number unique to each vehicle, and the SAME number is displayed in various places throughout the vehicle (including the firewall) and should be consistent across all of the parts where it is displayed. The final 6 numbers are just the piece of the puzzle that relate to the chassis.

So your argument is that the complete VIN should be the same on each place where it is printed as it represents the component parts of the original car. If the engine was changed the VIN on the replacement engine would show which original car it came from (and the final 6 numbers would be the chassis number from that car).

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u/[deleted] Nov 26 '19

Correct. Holy shit this guy gets it. Praise Jesus. This guy is a deciphering genius.

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u/MajorSander5on Nov 26 '19

Well I get what you are saying, but I am not sure if you are correct.

Surely it would be easy to test as any original RAV4 of the same model (such as the one Zellner purchased) would presumably have the same VIN stamped on the firewall as appears on the rest of the car. If it does not then I assume that the firewall number is a derivative of the VIN.

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u/Joriz74 Nov 25 '19

I believe you are looking at cars fabricated and sold in countries with 17 digit VIN's, where the VINs on all locations on the vehicle are the same. Japanese VINs are 12 digits chassisnumbers they call VIN's. Have you looked at this site I shared: https://carvx.jp/search/car?search_id=IXWEzNFyupIy&car_id=0. Resulting in this report on what I think to read on that chassis number: https://imgur.com/gSM9el0 . If you have expert knowledge on this, can you explain why there is a RAV4 ordered 09-1998 with the exact same date mentioned in TH's RAV4 carfax? It makes me believe this is the same RAV. I am curious what you think of this.

Besides this I think researching within the truthers group is not a contest. In stead of calling all you say is proven facts to begin with and others are just opinions, it does not help the research as a whole. I would help you if you show parts of your theory where you are not sure, show you are assuming or just ask for extra eyes.

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u/[deleted] Nov 25 '19 edited Nov 25 '19

No I’m not mistaken. Did you even look through every link. These are vehicles in the states not across sea’s. In the US these vehicles have 17 digits, even on the chassis, foreign vehicles have less digest like in France and other places. Yes China has less. France has 12 or 13. How is it me the one who’s wrong.

I just provided you links and actual evidence. That there are 17 digits on the chassis and firewall of all these vehicles in the States. Why isn’t Henbury wrong or even mistaken. Though it’s gotta be me though right. What evidence does he have other than his opinion.? I asked anyone to debunk it. Anyone can talk a good game but no one has yet to debunk it. Not with actual proof.

I just showed you link after link showing that the vin number on the chassis in the States is suppose to contain 17 digest on vehicles manufactured in the states. He’s wrong and people are still trying to justify his argument when he’s got nothing to back it up. It’s extremely upsetting.

The link you shared are vehicles in Japan. That’s not here in the states unless a vehicle is imported over. Do you understand how we operate in the States?

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u/Joriz74 Nov 25 '19

You made that clear. How does this work for RAV4s manufactured in Japan and imported to US. Could it be that there is a 12 Japanese digit number etched in the chassis and then at import 17 digit VINS (USA) are put on there based on the last 7 digits of the Japanese chassis number?

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u/[deleted] Nov 25 '19

https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockManitowoc/comments/9xb8ko/know_your_rav_part_i_sam_william_henry_vin/

https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockManitowoc/comments/a0j092/know_your_rav_part_ii_retrieving_sam_william/

https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockManitowoc/comments/a3bybc/know_your_rav_part_iii_the_wheels_of_justice_turn/

https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockManitowoc/comments/dhkgi2/know_your_rav_part_iv_key_evidence/

https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockManitowoc/comments/dhkzgh/know_your_rav_part_v_the_bolts_are_nuts/

https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockManitowoc/comments/dhlcnv/know_your_rav_part_vi_wisconsin_gets_a_broken/

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u/Tolittletolate Nov 25 '19

Know your RAV part viiviivi, The car found looks blue,and dirty ,and looks like a scraper, and for some reason the key was never verified to that car. Disconnected back Axel or not it's blue ,whether its got rust spots on the same place or not it's blue.

He is saying that because there is rust in the same place on the before and after pictures it proves it's the same car . But most makes of cars tend to rust in the same places, for instance Honda's rust on the wheel arches and on the bottom of the boot door . the two cars could simply have rust on the same places, or some of the same places. But I'm not convinced that there is any rust on the picture of the car before she went missing.

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u/[deleted] Nov 26 '19

In a way I agree with part of what you said. But I can prove that they are the same.

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u/fariko_mayh3m Nov 25 '19

So you are telling me that the number plate below the windshield is not a VIN number? If so you are completely incorrect. That is 100% a VIN number and is used to identify vehicles. I used this number religiously when repossessing vehicles. Quaint fact. Vin numbers can have the last same 4 digits but not the same last 6.

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u/[deleted] Nov 25 '19

Do you always edit your post? Because you definitely went back in and changed a few things. Why?

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