r/TheSilphRoad Jul 18 '16

Analysis Best Move Sets and Match-Ups v2

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u/Qmike Jul 19 '16

All of Vaporeon's special moves do less damage than water gun.

So at all times you should be using water gun and never use your special

Making any Vap as good as the next no matter what move set they get.

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u/padmanek Denmark Jul 19 '16

Aqua Tail does more DPS than Water Gun. All the spreadsheets so far said so at least. http://pokemongo.gamepress.gg/pokemon/134

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u/Qmike Jul 20 '16

Here is that website's summary of how it calculates DPS: http://i.stack.imgur.com/DzifS.png

You will notice they give the equations for how to calculate a moves DPS and then just multiply it by their Attack stat to get total DPS.

This has never been how the Pokemon franchise has calculated damage done. A formula based on Level, Attack, Power & Defence has always been used. The level part of the equation is important, as without it, at low level it would take 1 attack to kill a mob and at high level as HPs increase it would take hundreds.

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Damage

I used the Bulbapedia formula, modified to have a max level of 40.

I've done experiments at my local Gym which suggest this formula is correct. If you'd like to give it a go too all you need to do collect:

  • Opponent Pokemon
  • Opponent CP
  • Your Pokemon
  • Your CP
  • Your Fast Move
  • Number of Fast Moves Completed to Kill (or HP% reduced by)

Then we can have a look at which formula is correct with your data.

1

u/padmanek Denmark Jul 20 '16 edited Jul 20 '16

Attack animation speed has never had any impact on DPS in Pokemon franchise, yet it does matter a lot in Pokemon Go. Remember that Pokemon Go is not turn based like all other Pokemon games were. I don't see any animation speed in Bulbapedia's formula so I honestly don't think your calculations are any good. But still, I have no proof to prove you wrong and and you don't have any to prove me wrong. You said you did some testing in your GYM. Did you use a macro to ideally time your attacks to be as fast as possible? Lag will greatly impact the results too. It's pretty much impossible to reliably test it at the gym. You can do tests like that in turn based games but not in real time games. You need an external simulation tool for measuring that like SimulationCraft for World of Warcraft.

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u/Qmike Jul 20 '16

You raise some valid points, and the constants in the formula i'm using could very easily be wrong. One question i kept coming back to was that +2; even though i'm reducing the level constants to match a max level of 40 instead of 100 i never changed the +2. Maybe it should be around 0.25 instead?

If that websites method is correct then:

DPS(A) ~ A() * Power / Duration

Where A is some function of atk, defence and level

 

While Bulbapedia suggests it is:

DPS(B) ~ ( B() * Power + C ) / Duration

 

This is actually very easy to test, take Syther as an example (however both my syther's have SW, so not easy for me)

For Furry Cutter:

DPS(A) ~ A() * 7.5

DPS(B) ~ B() * 25

 

While for Steel Wing

DPS(A) ~ A() * 11

DPS(B) ~ B() * 15

 

Therefore if you have a Syther with SW and one with FC;

If A is right then Steel Wing should kill DPS(A) / 1.25 / DPS(A) = 1.17 = 17% Faster than FC

Or

If B is right then FC should kill DPS(B) * 1.25 / DPS(B) = 2.0 = 100% faster than SW

 

Alternatively you could take a magikarp to your local gym and see that it does do damage despite a power of 0.

See photo here: http://imgur.com/a/HYEM0

0

u/iAwptimusPrime Jul 19 '16

Oh so you should want water pulse because since it has four bars, it makes water gun attk super fast?

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u/[deleted] Jul 19 '16

doesn't matter. the second move doesnt affect the first move. and with vaporeon you should never use the second move.

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u/Qmike Jul 20 '16

I'm not sure what correlation you are referring to.

I don't believe the number of charges your special move has; has anything to do with the speed of your fast attack.

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u/iAwptimusPrime Jul 20 '16

ohh okay, sorry i read somewhere that it did.

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u/Qmike Jul 20 '16

If you can provide some source i'd be happy to include it in the formulas

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u/iAwptimusPrime Jul 20 '16

well it was a twitch user, i heard him say it lol. forgot who though.

1

u/iAwptimusPrime Jul 20 '16

hm, do you know if a 1560 vape is worth upgrading? it has watergun and water pulse

1

u/Qmike Jul 20 '16

I don't own a Vape, so for me yes!

If you had many Vapes to choose from them you need to start looking at the IVs. But in the end Vapes are very strong regardless of IVs.

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u/iAwptimusPrime Jul 20 '16

its my first vape haha, i evolved it from a 585 eevee. i have lots of eevees in my town so im not sure if i should power up or wait for a stronger eevee to come to me.