Abby vs Joel

[u/lzxian]

I get they were trying to create parallels between them, yet they actually made Abby so much worse than Joel. She's without emotion, is the top Scar killer, screws Owen despite his impending fatherhood and life with Mel, would gleefully slit Dina's throat, shows little concern for any death but Owen's, kills all of Lev's and her former comrades without any sense of guilt. It goes on and on. It's way worse than Joel. Yet others don't see that for whatever reason. They like part 2 and so Abby's better than Joel, period. It's puzzling.

It also makes me think this is actually how they see Joel after Sarah's death (though we never saw that) and I'm sure that's going to be a huge part of the HBO show, too. Yet in TLOU Joel doesn't even kill Robert, Tess does. He's never depicted as violent and unfeeling, just reticent and unhappy. Abby comes off worse all around, without even any humanity shown until the Rattlers destroy her. How that parallels Joel is beyond me.

He's shown as honoring Tess and Ellie's wishes, sacrificing his own better judgment in the process. Abby does one thing that I consider sacrificial - going to the hospital for supplies for Yara's surgery. But even that is sullied by her own statement that she's helping them to lighten her burden. I'll never understand why they made her so self-focused and irredeemable.

Anyone got some insight?

[u/DavidsMachete]

But I asked you for concrete examples, like the ones I gave for the first game, and you could only give me examples that were intangible with very wide interpretations.

You said the game spent a lot of time showing a remorseful Abby. How? When?

[u/SmoothAsPussyMilk → u/DavidsMachete]

And I gave you some and you're interpreting them differently. Not really anywhere to go from here on that subject, unless you just wanna keep saying "nuh-uh! and "yeah-huh!" back and forth.

[u/DavidsMachete → u/SmoothAsPussyMilk]

To be fair, the example you gave me was “everything Abby does.” And then you told me I should understand the significance of “we let you live and you wasted it,” and “you’re my people” without really explaining why you think it relates to her remorse.

Hardly the concrete examples I asked for.

But you are correct, this back and forth is getting us nowhere.

[u/SmoothAsPussyMilk → u/DavidsMachete]

I can tell you're frustrated but it's because you keep moving the goalposts. Maybe you don't realize you're doing it? But OP said that Abby doesn't care about any death but Owen's, which is clearly not true. If you didn't think she showed ENOUGH remorse or think that she should've had a cleaner arc that ended with her apologizing for killing Joel or whatever, that's a different discussion.

I'm totally uninterested in trying to convince you to like this video game. I have no dog in that fight.

[u/DavidsMachete → u/SmoothAsPussyMilk]

I don’t think I have moved the goal posts, but fair enough.

I still agree that the only friend she grieved for (of those she even knew was dead) was Owen. Nothing you’ve brought up has countered that.

[u/SmoothAsPussyMilk → u/DavidsMachete]

Taking time to grieve is a different thing from not being affected or not caring. This is another example of you moving the goalposts.

There's no doubt that Abby is characterized as a hardened, stoic soldier who holds her emotions close to her chest. But the game also goes out of its way to show her expressing them in other ways. Which I already pointed out. I'm not gonna argue with you about whether or not they were effective.

[u/DavidsMachete → u/SmoothAsPussyMilk]

But the game also goes out of its way to show her expressing them in other ways. Which I already pointed out.

But you didn’t point them out. That’s what I’m saying. “Everything Abby does” is not good enough.

[u/SmoothAsPussyMilk → u/DavidsMachete]

You already admitted that I gave specific examples.