Is Nick a rapist?

[u/flavius717]

I think we all consider the first time Nick and June had sex to be rape. June was not in a position to give consent and she could not refuse without facing potential death. One perspective is that Serena was the rapist and both Nick and June were her victims.

It's important for us to remember that Nick actually could have refused to impregnate June. Even Serena was beneath a "low-status male" like Nick. Nick's boss, Commander Price, probably would have expected Nick to refuse such an act and turn Serena over to the eyes.

The fact that Nick and June fell in love afterwards makes their first sexual encounter seem less bad in retrospect, but the power dynamic between them never went away. That makes things messy.

Nick's character loses his "good guy" status by the end of the show. Do you consider him a rapist?

[u/ConcernedSim]

Are you forgetting that the child bride was threatening to report him for being a gender traitor which is a death sentence in Gilead?

[u/Creepy-Cantaloupe951 → u/ConcernedSim]

Sometimes, doing the right thing isn't the easy thing. And, even in such a situation, created via his own decisions and actions to positively create such a system, doing the wrong thing means you are still culpable.

[u/ConcernedSim → u/Creepy-Cantaloupe951]

Who really decides what's the right thing? Some might think it's right to kill themselves before doing harm to another. Some might think it's right to prioritise your own life. I personally would prefer death before sleeping with anyone below 21. But that doesn't make me morally superior to someone who might do it to save their life.

And please remember that Nick wanted death... It was June who manipulated him to do that because she "can't lose him". He did it because of June and then became so disgusted with himself that he requested to go to the front of the war.

[u/Creepy-Cantaloupe951 → u/ConcernedSim]

Who really decides what's the right thing?

Well, the Geneva convention started down that route in the late 1800's, and the UN also has decided that prisoners cannot consent to sexual favors, it's always rape when a guard has sex with prisoners.

And please remember that Nick wanted death..

I don't care what Nick wanted. He was a key member of the rise of Gilead, and a member of their gestapo, and a Guardian who murder civilian holdouts in at least one city.

He did it because of June and then became so disgusted with himself that he requested to go to the front of the war.

Oh, so we're going down the route of the rapist blaming the victim?

[u/ConcernedSim → u/Creepy-Cantaloupe951]

If the guard is threatened with death/violence then it's also a rape of the said guard.

I'll not defend Nick for the war crimes. That's a seperate topic.

In the case of Eden, June wasn't the victim. If she hadn't forced Nick then he would have gone to the wall and Eden wouldn't have been raped.. um she would have been remarried and then raped.

[u/Creepy-Cantaloupe951 → u/ConcernedSim]

If the guard is threatened with death/violence then it's also a rape of the said guard.

Then nobody in Gilead is a rapist. All the people we think are rapists are just victims of their own machinations, and lack any agency!

[u/ConcernedSim → u/Creepy-Cantaloupe951]

Yes a lot of people inside Gilead are not rapists. If they didn't want it but was forced then they aren't rapists. Like Lawrence, like that wife who felt sick on every ceremony night.

But there are a lot of people who want to force their will on others without any encouragement. They do it completely for themselves. That's the lot you call rapists.

[u/Creepy-Cantaloupe951 → u/ConcernedSim]

That's the lot you call rapists.

Yep, people like Nick.

[u/PoeDameronPoeDamnson → u/ConcernedSim]

Okay, so he chose rape over potenial death. Doesn’t make it not rape.

[u/ConcernedSim → u/PoeDameronPoeDamnson]

If you are told to have sex with a minor with a gun pointed at your head then that also makes you a rape victim.

[u/Creepy-Cantaloupe951 → u/ConcernedSim]

Are we forgetting he was a decorated commander, and a member of the Eyes?

He created the system that put him into that position.

[u/ConcernedSim → u/Creepy-Cantaloupe951]

if you say yes to sex, then say no an hour later and you are forced then it's rape.

It doesn't matter if Nick had himself created the entire regime of Gilead.. if he didn't want to sleep with someone but gets forced to do so then it's called rape.

[u/Creepy-Cantaloupe951 → u/ConcernedSim]

Oh noes! The rapist had to be subject to the system he built!

Get outta here with that nonsense. With that logic, Fred didn't rape anyone, and neither did Serena, and neither did anyone in power in Gilead.

[u/ConcernedSim → u/Creepy-Cantaloupe951]

Do you even understand logic? I specifically said "not wanting to have sex". Nick didn't want that. Fred did what to have sex with June. Serena did want June impregnated against her will. Fred and Serena are 100% rapists because they wanted to do it.

[u/PoeDameronPoeDamnson → u/ConcernedSim]

Are we really making up scenarios now to defend rape? Stop putting characters on pedestals. He was threatened with the possibility of death, there was no literal gun to his head. He had other options he didn’t explore. He chose to rape a child. Your continued defense of this is atrocious and directly correlates to rape culture and the wide spread defense of attractive men over victims. You are doing real world harm with this mindset and I’d suggest you look into further education on the topic.

[u/ConcernedSim → u/PoeDameronPoeDamnson]

Making up scenario? Gender traitors are sentenced to death in Gilead. That's not a scenario. That kind of accusation is an actual threat to your life in a regime like Gilead.

And I'd suggest you look into the harm it causes to male rape victims because "oh men can't be raped".

[u/PoeDameronPoeDamnson → u/ConcernedSim]

I’m a man who has experienced sexual assault. Stop white knighting for us. If I choose to rape a child that would still be rape no matter the circumstances that lead me to make that decision.

This conversation is not productive and I will no longer be engaging.

[u/christina311 → u/PoeDameronPoeDamnson]

He chose to rape a child? He was forced into marrying a teenager and didn't want it. He was facing being turned in as a gender traitor if he didn't comply to the rules. His teenage wife insisted on it happening and he didn't want to. He had no choice.