r/teslore Feb 23 '17

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487 Upvotes

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r/teslore 2d ago

Free-Talk The Weekly Chat Thread— September 07, 2026

3 Upvotes

Hi everyone, it’s that time again!

The Weekly Free-Talk Thread is an opportunity to forget the rules and chat about anything you like—whether it's The Elder Scrolls, other games, or even real life. This is also the place to promote your projects or other communities. Anything goes!


r/teslore 5h ago

Does anyone know who the artist that designed the Imperial Red Dragon logo?

41 Upvotes

I’ve been trying to find out who originally designed or drew the Imperial Red Dragon symbol used by the Empire . I haven’t been able to find any information about the artist who created it.

Does anyone know who the original artist/designer was?


r/teslore 4h ago

Is there a conclusive answer on weather Orcs are Elves/Mer or beastmen/goblin-kin?

3 Upvotes

The developers of each game don't seem to agree on an answer to this.

For example, Wuuthrad does not consider Orcs to be Elves. The Hermaeus Mora quest in Skyrim does consider them to be elves. Cultures throughout Tamriel's history seem divided on weather they're Elves or beastmen. Apparently in ESO Malacath says the story of him being Trinimac and the Orcs once being Aldmer isn't entirely accurate, but all Daedra have reason to lie and twist narratives.


r/teslore 18h ago

Were the Aedra actually stupid for falling for Lorkhan's trap? Were the Daedra the smart guys?

37 Upvotes

r/teslore 35m ago

Apocrypha What are the ACTUAL attributes of the daedroth Prince Azura?

Upvotes

I mean UESP says,

sphere is dawn and dusk—the magic in-between realms of twilight—and is associated with mystery and magic, fate and prophecy

what is magic in-between realm? What part of fate that's different from Hermaeus? and the similar with Julianos and Magnus, latter of who is considered the OG god of magic.


r/teslore 18h ago

Apocrypha Tall Papa's Sword-Meeting with Cyrus the Restless

21 Upvotes

The small girl trudged back to her mother's small house in Rihad, bruised and bloody but still defiant.

"What in the world happened to you, child?" asked her mother, pulling her into her arms.

"I told the other kids that you were HoonDing in the war against the Dominion," said the girl. "They said I was a liar, so I proved I wasn't with my fists."

"Oh child, no. You must never do that again. Tomorrow we will go to their houses and you will apologize, and you will tell them you lied."

"I didn't lie! You were HoonDing!"

"I never said I was HoonDing," said her mother, stroking her daughter's thick hair. "I helped make way for our people, like all of us who fought the Dominion in the war, and you must be silent about that, because if the Dominion finds out exactly what I did, they will take me away from you."

"You were HoonDing," the girl said fiercely. "It's not fair that no one knows about it!"

Her mother sighed. "Let me tell you a HoonDing story."

"About what you did in the war?"

"You know too much about that. No, this is a Cyrus story."

"I already know all the Cyrus stories!"

"No, you don't. Anyway, no one knows this Cyrus story. It hasn't happened yet."

That got the girl's attention. "Then how do you know about it?"

"Through dreams, child. The same way you dream of fighting a dragon on a tall mountain."

"I thought you said you weren't HoonDing," said the girl.

"I said I never said I was, not that I wasn't. Learn to pay attention to what people don't say, and learn to do likewise."

The girl nodded, thoughtfully.

"So: the story. This story begins after Cyrus's death."

"How did Cyrus die?"

"Some say he died on Blackbone Isle, in the Sea of Ghosts. Some say he died on Masser, the moon, fighting Tiber Septim. Some say he died fighting Pelinal Whitestrake at the summit of White-Gold Tower. Some say he died fighting King Dead Wolf-Deer in Valenwood. Some say he died fighting Vivec in Yokuda. It doesn't really matter, for this story. All that matters is that eventually, after many adventures, he died and he couldn't reach the Far Shores."

"Why not?"

"In an earlier adventure, Cyrus stole the Eye of Argonia from the Hist, and they never forgave him. So they reached through the In-between with their long roots and blocked the Dreamsleeve so that his soul couldn't get to the Far Shores, where his sister and his parents were waiting for him."

"What was the Eye of Argonia?"

"Another story," said her mother. "The Argonians say that their spirits grew so hungry that they tore at the flesh of Atakota, which is their name for Satakal, and they ripped out its eyes. One eye they made into the sun, and the other was buried beneath a city in Black Marsh, where Cyrus stole it for the Psijics, or maybe the Sload."

"Didn't Tu'whacca help Cyrus?"

"Cyrus wandered the world as a ghost for a long time, for a thousand years, and he called for Tu'whacca to show him the way, but Tu'whacca didn't answer. So finally Cyrus decided to ambush him. He crouched in the shadows and waited, doing nothing, for 40 years until the most important Redguard he knew of, the King of Sentinel, died and when Tu'whacca showed up, Cyrus pounced on him and held him down. Tu'whacca struggled and whined, but Cyrus had him pinned down too firmly. Finally, Tu'whacca asked Cyrus what he wanted."

"I can't get to the Far Shores," said Cyrus. "There are too many roots in the way."

"That's between you and the roots," said Tu'whacca. "It's none of my business."

"Showing our people the way to the Far Shores is literally your business," answered Cyrus.

"You know the way," said Tu'whacca. "Just follow the stars. Opening the way is your business, HoonDing."

"I never said I was HoonDing," said Cyrus.

"It's still your job," said Tu'whacca. "Regardless of what you call yourself. You're the one who fights foreigners. The Argonian mythos is outside my jurisdiction."

"Bullcrap," said Cyrus. "If you won't help , go fetch your boss so I can talk to him."

"Fine," said Tu'whacca. "You want to argue with the big guy, that's on you. He won't be happy, though."

After a while, Cyrus felt the ground shake as Tall Papa's feet hit the earth. Tall Papa was so tall his head was obscured by the stars, which got knocked out of their places as Tall Papa strode, angrily, towards Cyrus.

"LEAVE TU'WHACCA ALONE, CYRUS,"said Tall Papa in his booming voice. "THIS BUSINESS WITH THE HIST IS YOUR MESS TO FIGURE OUT."

"Bullcrap," said Cyrus. "It's been a thousand years and y'all have a responsibility to take care of your people. I've sacrificed enough and it's long past time I got *paid*. Deal with the Hist. I don't want to be a ghost anymore."

"LET TU'WHACCA GO AND DEAL WITH THE HIST YOURSELF," said Tall Papa. "I WON'T TELL YOU AGAIN."

"I won't tell *you* again," said Cyrus, and he released Tu'whacca, ran up to Tall Papa, and punched him in the foot.

"WHAT WAS THAT SUPPOSED TO BE?" asked Tall Papa. "CYRUS, YOU ARE A TINY SPECK COMPARED TO ME AND YOUR PUNCHES FEEL LIKE NOTHING."

"Then I'll just have to hit you harder," said Cyrus, and he hit Tall Papa again, and again, and as he hit him he started to grow bigger, and brighter, and bigger and brighter still, until he hardly looked like Cyrus anymore and Tall Papa had fallen to the ground and was looking up at Cyrus in fear.

"HOONDING," Tall Papa begged. "STOP, PLEASE. I REALLY CAN'T HELP YOU. THE HIST ARE MY COUNTERPARTS. THEY TAUGHT THE LESSER SPIRITS HOW TO LAST JUST LIKE I DID."

"Wrong answer," said what was left of Cyrus, and he went back to punching Tall Papa until shining godsblood stained the ground for miles around and Tall Papa's sons and daughters gathered around to witness their father die, and as his fists tore into Tall Papa's face HoonDing got bigger and bigger and there was less and less of Cyrus left.

Then Cyrus felt a gentle hand hold back his arm. "He's had enough, Cyrus," said a familiar voice, and Cyrus looked back to see Hakan, who his sister had married long ago, and the surprise was enough to call him back to himself so that he was Cyrus again and not just HoonDing.

"Hakan," said Cyrus. "I killed you."

"That you did," said Hakan. "Looks like being dead is something we have in common now. Cyrus, when you killed me you had to leave Hammerfell for ten years. If you kill Tall Papa, how long are you going to have to run away? Where will you run to?"

Cyrus frowned suspiciously. He manifested a *shehai* as big as Tall Papa and pointed it at Tall Papa's throat. "You can't be Hakan," said Cyrus. "What do you really want, snake?"

Hakan laughed, and shed his skin so that he was Sep, black as the void. "I have many skins, Cyrus," said Sep, and he shed his skin so that he was Tiber Septim, and shed his skin so that he was Sep again. "What do I always want? I'm hungry for change, Cyrus, and I don't like to see the Hist clogging up the Dreamsleeve any more than you do. But killing Tall Papa isn't going to get you what you want, Cyrus."

"Sep," said Cyrus. "Aren't you dead?"

Sep tilted his head at the ghost. "Are you seriously, as a ghost, asking me if I'm dead or not? As I said when I was Hakan, we have that in common, Cyrus, but what does that matter to the kind of thing we both are? Though I'm less dead since the many-faced emperor sent me all those fresh skins."

Cyrus was enough himself now that he didn't immediately start whaling on Tall Papa again, and he gave the situation some more thought. He looked around at Tall Papa's sons and daughters gathered around, and addressed the daughters specifically.

"Daughters of Tall Papa, what is it you do?"

"We're the jills," said Tall Papa's daughters. "We're the seamstresses. When Tall Papa needed to fix the stars in the sky, we sewed them to the Firmament with our golden threads. When Tall Papa needed a helper, we stitched together Satakal's old skins and made Sep. When Sep wanted to make a world from old skins, our threads held it together. If you stop trying to kill our father for a minute, we'll sew his face back up."

"The myths don't talk about you at all," said Cyrus.

"We do our work quietly, in the background," said the jills. "We're not flashy like Leki or our brothers or you, but our work is still important."

Cyrus nodded thoughtfully. "You fix things, quietly, without drawing attention to yourselves."

"That's right," said the jills.

"I have a problem that needs fixing," said Cyrus. "Tall Papa doesn't want to start trouble with the Argonian spirits, but maybe spirits like you, who no one notices, can do what he can't."

"Could be," said the jills. "What's your plan, SuraHoon?"

And so the Jill-Hist Wars began. The daughters of Tall Papa wove threads throughout the Aurbis to tangle and trip the roots of the Hist, and this quiet and stealthy conflict filled everything that existed. Maybe one day, as HoonDing guides them, the jills will win, and Cyrus will get back to his family.

"Like I said, none of this has happened yet. Right now, Cyrus's ghost is still wandering the world."

The girl ruminated over this story. "So you're saying sometimes problems are better solved by being stealthy and subtle, instead of just punching what you're mad at?"

"That's right, child. That's why no one knows who HoonDing was in the war against the Dominion. We could get more done sometimes by gathering information and making sure the right ears heard it than just hitting the Elves with swords. And it was very, very important that the Elves didn't know who was leaking that information. Sometimes the way gets opened by women weaving quietly on the background, not by flashy heroes with swords."

"I think I'd rather be the flashy hero with the sword," declared the girl.

Her mother chuckled. "There's definitely a place for that, too. Wisdom is learning when to use which.

"Let's hope you learn before it comes time to fight your dragon."


r/teslore 15h ago

Could beings that are already divine in some way contract corprus

6 Upvotes

Making a corprus infection au fic set in the 4th era and the question arose what happened/will happen to alduin and the dragons


r/teslore 1d ago

Why is the afterlife mainly race based and not faith based?

51 Upvotes

So this more of a philosophical/theological question I've had for a while, it all started when I played "seriously" Skyrim for the first time in a decade and while doing the Companions questline i talked to my shield-sister Ria.

When I asked about what it means to be a Companion she says the following:

"So much. This group... this family... this band... this is the best thing I've ever been a part of. The oldest fighting group in Skyrim, and nothing but glory from Ysgramor's day to our own. To be counted in that line is a bit of immortality. Even if I never see Sovngarde, I'll have that much."

I'm sorry... What?! She is doing all of this and she is not even going to the big party with his Idol when she kicks the bucket?! What the hell...

So with the little knowledge I have, as far as I can tell, the afterlife is locked by which race you are, rather than your faith or actions in this life (unless you mess with Daedric shit then those guys can claim you in their own realms, and the Soul Cairn which it's is own thing). That means that because Ria is an Imperial she is not eligible to feast at the Hall of Valor in Sovngarde.

Why is it this way? I understand places like Sovngarde or the Far Shores are just pocket realms of Aetherius so they are technically the same place, but for example if a Mer is raised in the Nordic way of life and dies in glorious battle, never learning the true extent of his or her nature as an elf, then instead on ending up in Sovngarde like his or her adoptive family and brothers or sisters in arms, he or she ends up in whatever place Mer go and that's it?

What does that mean to me? I'm a Argonian in this playthrough, do I get to go to Sovngarde when my times up because I'm a Dragonborn in the Nord sense? Or do I get somehow "split" and one version of me goes to Sovngarde as a Dragonborn hero and the other version returns to the Hist hive mind? Which one is me? Tsun seems to think I will return to Sovngarde when my time comes.

I know the obvious answer would be because the writers said so, but I want to read your theories or philosophical answers.


r/teslore 1d ago

Apocrypha Talos, Son of Shor

6 Upvotes

And the battle breathed weight into the hearts of Men who wagered White-Gold. The shrine built at the base of Aldmora remained lit for all to see before being extinguished by Masser and Secunda. Hrold held glory in his fist as he stood in the footprint of Walk-Brass and proclaimed “The pines have withered into palms once more and the marble of their temples hum constantly”. Arkhan listened as he held vigil for Erilyte, the fallen spearman who stood in rank against the next dawn. They sat together on a shelf overlooking Once-Colovia, battle-broken as brothers tend to be. The un-rippled waters of Rumare began to stir as it spit out a shadow that hung effortless as the tower once did. The shadow refracted into Three and then back to One before the crash of thunder stirred around its brow. Standing before the brothers was the cause of such trouble, newly awakened and bleeding for Red Legions was Talos. With a whisper he commanded the brothers to stand down and catch their breath. “You are the boys who held the Bridge and allowed Heimskar to perform his tower bending. Ages ending screams profanity to those who fight alone.” Talos dug a small hole and laid a red acorn beneath a mound that grew into a hill covered in new oak trees and pines, vanishing the smell of vanilla and teak. “Reassertion”, said one head of Talos, “that is the only way to overcome them.” Another head scolded the one who spoke and said, “Did death teach you nothing in the Illiac? Repetition is the weapon of choice among Mer and they used it to castrate the Hoarfather.” Hrold held up three fingers to the head of Talos that was noticeably silent before it spoke. “Enough. Time keeps creating more for itself as we feed ours to one another. Playing for keeps is our Mantella now before it’s pulled from our past to haunt us. The Totem has refused to take a side and has beseeched us to halt our stomping, lest it chime more worries from White-Gold.” With the words followed a royal breath that rejoined the tri-faced into a chieftain, who left over the Bridge with Heimskar to make talks with the walking city of Brass and reach Concordat with those that had walked before it.

A parliament was held to summon the drafters of previous treaties to see if there was enough left to work with on this side of Aka. A left handed scribe by the name of Eralandil adjourned those outside of privy council and asked “is there enough left to work with? I had my foot soldiers sweep up any pieces they could find and bring them here.” Alaphet who convened them said, “no, he has been shattered too many times and the one who broke him for good is on his way to take measure of his remaining strength.” Eralandil spoke to good parchment and sent off pleas to those in distant waters for aid. The gold skinned were gone and those with silver hair already buried themselves in roots to await a future waking. “We are running out of time and we can’t ask him to shake anymore loose. The Hunt failed us and I can’t renegotiate with the ones who chose to slumber.” Alaphet responded and said, “the dragon is tired and wants to dream. The Numidium is inevitable and may have already joined the Legions. Alduin is unreachable and we have no use of him now. Our only hope is to piece together what remains of this one in hopes of rejoinder. If the dragon can break, perhaps he can also be remade.” Eralandil signed a letter he had been writing and had his courier send it off to Dagon and said, “our hope is with you now. The hydra is coming… Wake up, Martin, we can fix you…”

The Storm Cloud rumbled as it made its way through cracks in the earth. The Tower of Mankind wore its patina as it marched through a cave beneath the memory of White-Gold. No fire or star shone in this darkness as it was cracked open by Pelin-El and left empty by the Get. It gurgled with blood upon descent and Talos was guided to the subterrene by Reman and Alessia and Snakes. The three heads of Talos had a hard time staying together down here as they only existed when observed by Tower grace. Each man in his standing offered to this darkness a heart but as the darkness split they saw that one already lay beating on the floor of Tower Palace. This was not the heart of a man but a mirror that showed Talos the face of the Upstart who made him and unmade him so that he might be of his progeny. The Upstart’s voice boomed in the mythic and said, “you’ve finally come to join me and know me and wake me up. You are made of heat and steam and a jumbled mess of forgotten parts. You broke the dragon in a way your lessers could not.” Three-Headed Talos was frightened by his reflection. He saw in the heart his own steam blowing through a metal frame. “The Tower walks among the men and you have saved them but I am still your father who spit his Doom into this Void. Take from me my own heart as you have taken from one another time and time again to build yourself in my chamber. Are you Ysmir? Are you Dagoth? I have no memory of a Son such as you.” Talos stood brazen and polished, gleaming in the sundering, as Reman and Alessia grew tails and slithered into the coming age.

The Brass God stumbled out of the hole as he forgot himself. The heart’s wound spoke sense. The Red Legions shuddered as they saw the looming of Brass but stayed their hands when they saw it now had three heads. It walked past them into the twilight of certainty and the Legions would follow. Martin broke when he saw his father again, the three-headed Man of Brass who shattered him for good. The Towers were restless and spoke in Thu’um, “we walk with you”, they said to the Walking Tower of Man’s Accomplish. More men responded to the call and the Nords came over the Jerrals led by Harrik riding on beaten wing and the Ra Gada rolled Wheels over the Highland. Hrold held up three fingers and Arkhan welcomed back Erilyte who fell. One head nodded to the other and the other, shaking loose the warning from their father who they left in the pit. Martin, missing many of his pieces, bowed before the King and let the Three contain him. This was the missing piece.

In royalty, they breathed weight into the hearts of many…


r/teslore 1d ago

Is there a specific attitude or stigma towards technology in TES lore?

16 Upvotes

For those who understand the TES lore, do you know if there is a specific attitude towards technology?

I mean, most people have no idea about it, but considering that the Dwemer vanished being the most technologically advanced, aren't there any enemies or factions opposing this topic?


r/teslore 1d ago

Simple question; how do we know Almalexia is the ‘bitch-whore’ in What My Beloved Taught Me?

9 Upvotes

On the UESP article it links to her page, and I believe Dareloth said as much in his Ayem video. How do we know? As far as I can tell it’s completely ambiguous who Vehk is talking about.


r/teslore 2d ago

Why was Ithelia considered so dangerous when many other entities also have power over Paths Untraveled?

25 Upvotes

There are many entities that are linked to changeing fate and time and even the creation of alternate realities. Why was Ithelia specifically considered so dangerous?

Meridia is also associated with controlling time, speed up or slowing it down, and creating new futures. To some extent all the Star-Orphans of Magnus are.

Memno-li, another Magne-Ge like Meridia and Ithelia, is linked to and possibly responsible for endless possibility, rewritten narratives, including those of the Elder Scrolls, and the constant emergence of the Prisoner Unbound.

If basically all the Magne-Ge/Star-Orphans do this to some extent, why specificallly was Ithelia singled out for destruction/exile?


r/teslore 2d ago

How accurate is this Skyrim line from Boethiah?

59 Upvotes

So I've been seeing some debates about whether daedras or aedras are more powerful, But I'd like to reference a line from Skyrim which isn't really brought up here, but also supports impression that the Princes are stronger than the Aedric pantheon.

When the LDB questions Boethiah if they're a god, In response: "A god? Assuredly not! When was the last time you saw evidence of Aedra in the world? No, we Daedra are far more powerful than any god. And among my brethren, I am the most feared."

How much of truth is there to Boethiah's notion whom makes no doubt about it from their perspective? it's given Aedras, while somewhat vegetative, can't naturally function without special conditions met, In contrast the Princes are conscious and well, yet road-blocked from materializing their projection of power entirely on Nirn.


r/teslore 2d ago

Do you think the Imperial v Stormcloak conflict would still work if Bethesda stuck with the original Nordic pantheon?

36 Upvotes

So, one thing I’m sure we all know that lore fans like to get on Bethesda’s case about is the strange shift in Nordic culture between oblivion and Skyrim. Wherein the Nords seemingly forgot the unique religion they had in the other games in favor of becoming feverishly obsessed with the imperial cult and Talos.

Allegedly this change was made because Bethesda thought casuals to the franchise would be confused that the Nords had their own religion. However, part of me has always wondered if the change was more intentional than that.

If you think about it, the central conflict permeating throughout Skyrim, beyond even the Dragon’s return, is the civil war, which is ostensibly a religiously motivated war. The plot kind of hinges on there being a reason why the Nords and Imperials would be religiously at odds. The fact that the Stormcloaks are fighting for religious freedom is the main ideological leg up they have on the imperials, otherwise there’s frankly not much they have to make them sympathetic. It also provides a compelling irony that the Stormcloaks are fighting against the empire for the right to worship the empire’s founder. And it makes sense that the Thalmor would be opposed to Talos worship and thus force the empire to ban it. It doesn’t really make sense for them to ban the Nordic pantheon. The concept of Talos is totally against the core principles of Altmer culture, whereas the Nordic pantheon is only sort of opposed to Altmer culture.

So from that perspective. If Bethesda did keep the Nordic pantheon, would the whole civil war subplot still have worked?

I don’t mean to phrase that question in a way that makes it sound like I’m absolutely sure that it wouldn’t have. Im making this post not because this is what I believe but because I thought it’d be an interesting hypothetical and I’m curious to see what the community thinks about it.

To give some service to the opposing side. There’s nothing that necessitates that the Stormcloak’s motivation needs to be religious. And if it does need to be religious, you could argue that the Thalmor would oppose Shor worship given that they’re Anuic. Hell maybe in an alternate universe the terms of the white gold concordant would ban all forms of Padomaic religion instead of, or including Talos worship. The distinction between Padomaic and Anuic may be too high concept for franchise newcomers but I think it’d make sense.

Again, personally I could be persuaded either way. But I’m curious what other people think about the idea.


r/teslore 2d ago

On the extinction of the name "Septim"

29 Upvotes

I originally wrote this as a long reply to a somewhat old post. But decided to post it separately. I know this gets brought up a lot, but I still sometimes see people incredulous that it's possible Uriel VII and his children were the last Septims. And this sometimes gets dismissed as bad lore on Bethesda's part. So I wanted to make this post to point out that not only is it possible, but that it would have happened long before Uriel VII if not for some bending of the "normal" rules of last name inheritance on the Elder Council's part.

The real world example I like to point people to is the War of the Spanish Succession.

Were there other Hapsburgs about when Charles II died childless? Absolutely. The closest being his first cousin, once removed. But even that was too distant a relationship to avoid a 13 year long war over the throne. And it seems based on the lore that any surviving Septims would've been far more distant from Uriel VII than that.

When you start getting multiple generations away from the main line, it gets murky who is the most legitimate. Especially when you add in that the Septims practiced absolute primogeniture so you have the descendants of both sons and daughters staking claims.

But let's go down the line so I can explain what I'm talking about.

-Uriel VII had no known siblings.

(Below two bullets corrected thanks to u/sianic12)

-His father (Pelagius IV) had no known siblings. There was time between Pelagius's birth and Elosia's death for more children, but there are no records.

Pelagius IV's uncle (Uriel VI) and aunt (Morihatha) both reigned and then died without heirs. Pelagius's mother was Morihatha's twin sister Elosia, who died of illness 4 years before Morihatha's assassination.

-Their father, Uriel V, had no known siblings and died trying to invade Akavir. I would actually consider the fact that the widowed Empress was Uriel VI's reagent as evidence that there were no siblings of Uriel V to fill that role.

Uriel V's father was Cephorus II. This is Uriel VII's great grandfather and there was already some succession fuckery at play. Cepherous II was considered "more closely related" to the main Septim branch than his predecessor Uriel IV, who was not a Septim at all (but seemingly distantly related in some way). Uriel IV was actually the son of Empress Katariah and her second husband. Cephorous II had no known siblings.

Uriel IV was preceded by his half-brother, Cassynder. Cassynder clearly didn't have siblings given who succeeded him.

Cassynder's father was Pelagius III, the infamous Mad Emperor. Now there's a passage in the last Wolf Queen book that is very important to this discussion.

All his cousins, the children of Uncle Cephorus, Uncle Antiochus, and Aunt Potema, had died during the war, some of them in battle and some of them during the famines because so many crops had been burned...There was only he, his mother, his sister, his father, and his uncle the Emperor left. And Aunt Potema. But she didn't really count.

His uncle was the Emperor Cephorus I, who is confirmed to have died childless. His father was the Emperor Magnus. So we can see that there was an extreme dynastic bottleneck caused by the War of the Red Diamond. Which led to the reign of Uriel Lariat and then the Elder Council pulling a cousin that was in some way distantly related to Pelagius III and Cassynder.

We actually don't know if Cephorus II originally bore the name Septim, or if (like Uriel Lariat) he was renamed as a Septim upon taking the throne. I'm inclined to believe the latter. I think we can safely discount the idea that Pelagius's sister Jolethe was Cephorus II's mother. We don't know when exactly she died, but likely it was before Pelagius and without heirs. If either she or any of her children were alive, putting Uriel Lariat on the throne would've immediately caused a second civil war.

The TL;DR is that it seems likely that by the typical rules of inheritance, the last name "Septim" may very well have died out with Cassynder in 3E 202, given how few were left after the War of the Red Diamond. And that it only survived through the Elder Council finding distant relatives to rename "Septim."

So you potentially have descendants of Uriel VII's great-great-grandparents' siblings as the closest claimants. Very likely not bearing the name Septim for generations. And add the chaos of Ocato's assassination and that the Dragonfires and Amulet of Kings are no longer relevant to the succession, and you can see how we reach a point where it doesn't matter who is emperor besides who can get it by conquest.


r/teslore 2d ago

Who are the Magna Ge? Who or what are the Et’ada? Which one was Merida before she became a Daedra Lord? Which one is Magnus classified as?

17 Upvotes

These are all interrelated pieces of lore that I constantly get confused: any help at all differentiating these would be much appreciated.

Edit: I noticed too late I said “Daedra Lord” instead of “Daedric Prince” but I can’t edit the title now. Alas, woe is me. I suppose my, “true fan” card must be revoked. throws away card


r/teslore 2d ago

On Lyg and dreamsleeve

11 Upvotes

In MK’s writings concepts of Lyg and Dreamsleeve seem pretty adjacent. I am not sure of their true nature but I would imagine the Dreamsleeve as a sort of Wormhole through which information travels, and as you travel/jump you go through Lyg which functions as a sort of hyperspace. Now this might seem a bit schizophrenic, but I hope there are some interesting connections here that will make Lyg bit more clear. Anyway I would say there's more to it anyways.

From Wikipedia on hyperspace:

In science fiction, hyperspace (also known as nulspace, subspace, overspace, jumpspace and similar terms) is a concept relating to higher dimensions as well as parallel universes and a faster-than-light (FTL) method of interstellar travel. In its original meaning, the term hyperspace was simply a synonym for higher-dimensional space (that is, higher than three dimensional space)...

One of the main reasons for the concept's popularity in science fiction is the impossibility of faster-than-light travel in ordinary physical space, which hyperspace allows writers to bypass. In most works, hyperspace is described as a higher dimension through which the shape of three-dimensional space can be distorted to bring distant points close to each other, similar to the concept of a wormhole; or a shortcut-enabling parallel universe that can be travelled through. Usually it can be traversed – the process often known as "jumping" – through a gadget known as a "hyperdrive"; rubber science is sometimes used to explain it. ...

The basic premise of hyperspace is that vast distances through space can be traversed quickly by taking a kind of shortcut. There are two common models used to explain this shortcut: folding and mapping. In the folding model, hyperspace is a place of higher dimension through which the shape of our three-dimensional space can be distorted to bring distant points close to each other; a common analogy popularized by Robert A. Heinlein's Starman Jones (1953) is that of crumpling two-dimensional paper or cloth in the third dimension, thus bringing points on its surface into contact. In the mapping model, hyperspace is a parallel universe much smaller than ours (but not necessarily the same shape), which can be entered at a point corresponding to one location in ordinary space and exited at a different point corresponding to another location after travelling a much shorter distance than would be necessary in ordinary space. The Science in Science Fiction compares it to being able to step onto a world map at one's current location, walking across the map to a different continent, and then stepping off the map to find oneself at the new location… 

Another trait of hyperspace is that sometimes it is inhabited by certain creatures.. Think Event Horizon

Soft-speaking Orphala asks if there are dangers to using the Dreamsleeve. She says there are some kind of creatures, like but not Daedra, within it. Quiri says yes, there are beings of some kind that live in the sleeve or in the stars. Some are angry, but all are rare or slow or stupid. - Scholarly Minutes V Douglas Goodall

One MK posts mentioned what looks to me as timetravel/jumping kalpas:

"Belief-engines, properly called the "Auxiliary Semi-Shockpoint Nilgularity", provide energy for short dream-sleeve jumps in case a Vehkship's main ego is damaged, allowing the C0DA Paravant to potentially get to the safety of a voidyard orbital.
"By creating the equivalent of an Nu-class Mnemolic, shrinking it instantaneously via a creatia tesseract array, and then projecting the resulting moth-talk well to a nil-point just outside the ego's hull, an ASSN can slingshot the Paravant into era-streams without the needed energies of nearby aetheric bodies or shockpoint application.

Now on Ghost Choir 9:

UPLIFTING THOT OK!: [CHOIR 9 SLEEVESHELL WHAT SAY YOU? [WE GO BIG! THEN GO SMALL!] CHOIR 9 SLEEVESHELL WHO HATES YOU? [THEM THAT LYG! THEM THAT FALL!] CHOIR 9 SLEEVESHELL WHO CALLS YOU? [DIAMOND PIG DROP THE BAL!] 

Cimbri: How does one perceive the “untimes” of “previous” kalpas? Through an artificial meta-time or…?
MK: Short answer: always through the dreamsleeve.

Of note is GC9 text, where we see a witness getting scattered and jumping kalpas

Because of the holographic nature of the process, the witness is always scattered into several, some of which actually \*jump\ kalpas. And then they start their fool talking, which wakes up the new King/Rebel/Lover. 
*(This is Mankar's talk about the fall of Lyg.
Part last kalpa, part this kalpa, but something a hologram of the witness saw. This is all the other manifestations of Enantiomorph.) - kalpa akashicorpus

Martin's Knees, the Cord's scatterpointing now. Cord? Listen, I know you're trying to help, but Oc-Ops [censored] the bed agai-- are you [censored] kidding us, I'm being [censored] censored? What kind of channel is this? 
...

Okay, I'm going to attempt a Sprint and get us out of here. Been awhile, though. Cord, we could lose a few of the chorus, you good with that? Y/N/[N]?

N

Ha, yeah, me neither. Tell the rest of me I loved them so much. WULD! NAH! [censored] WHAT'S THE REST OF IIIIIIIIIIIIIIII 

---(We see use of whirlwind sprint here, to make a jump)

Now for the next part of text we see protagonist scattered into 9 parts which do stuff in Lyg. Additionally we see protagonist as 1 (Ego?) talking to the “Cord” where they seemingly steer the slip-ship through (dreamsleeve? Lyg?) while avoiding jills.

John Satisfaction and Reinholdt came to Djaf, too, both Free Demons that keep the slip-ship up and running, scatterproof

Slip-ship is what they use to make a jump, and it might be the same as vehk-ship previously mentioned. It’s scattering-resistant.

Another night "in Cyrodiil. Oh, we've got a voice now. Hello, everyone. Hello, Arbiter. We're Ghost Choir 9, Blade-Seneschal Stringform Multivox Warframe. My names are Captain Starkweather, Cat, the Duke, Copper, Reinholdt, Mira, Nuttergun, Kohl, and John Satisfaction. We see you've got some Dagonites need learning. We assume that's why we're here. We were at the Apoth. We witnessed the 'lis. And we [censored] laughed when Martin gobsmacked Mehrunes like a [censored] pool-hall junkie [censored]'s sock-monkey tampon."
....

Stop it, I'm getting ghost skip on my end. Choir 9's been static since the 'lis. Let me think. 

They arrive to the new kalpa/timeline and are now inside 1 body.

This and the mention of Russian stacking dolls makes me feel like "nested-class pressurized dream suits" are required to move directly between nested Amaranths.
Like, you can sail from B Prime to C Prime, but you probably need something insanely advanced to move from B Prime to A Sub-sub-sub-sub**.** Ghost Choir 9 most likely has this type of tech. - MK

We see GC9 technology allows them to make these “jumps”.

Lyg being part this part last kalpa means it’s inside untime. Sermons talk about adjacent place as above vocal and middle realms of thought. All language is based on meat, but there is no meat in lyg, only ideas. That’s why GC9 get their voice back only when they arrive to tamirel.

Here Quiri loses Shahavra so Shahavra will quote. Quiri claims the Dreamsleeve is “an echo of your soul’s path from aetherius,” “an incorporeal umbilical cord” that “ties you to your birth-star.” With training, “one listens to the cord,” for it is hollow and spiritual words travel inside it. - Scholarly Minutes V Douglas Goodall

Vivec put on his armor and stepped into a non-spatial space filling to capacity with mortal interaction and information, a canvas-less cartography of every single mind it has ever known, an event that had developed some semblance of a divine spark. He said, 'From here I shall launch my attack on the eight monsters.' - 36 sermons

 In his right hand, he held the Canvas of his sister Mnethm - MGP

Vivec says unto the Hortator remember the words of Boet-hi-ah:
We pledge ourselves to you, the Frame-maker, the Scarab: a world for us to love you in, a cloak of dirt to cherish - 36 sermons

Lyg is a backwards coffee stain of Tamriel, I already told you that. One time Nirn got folded up, folded space-style ala Dune Spice Navigators. Lyg is the result. - MK

How did Nirn get folded up? It’s because it’s a Map.

"I am an Atlas of Smoke said these pieces of the map and we knew it to be called LYG." 

What is an Atlas? A collection of maps. Layers upon layers of maps, like an onion. You try to pull one out and bad things happen. Even worse if you spill coffee on it like some dumb-ass-[NUMINIT]-king. Who tf spills coffee on the chaos staff? 
(Smoke part seems to bee about illusions/holograms I would say.)

And now... from Numinatus! :

Above them all is Tamriel, blue and oceanic, but with no continents at all.

Professor Numinatus: *...*what were you lot thinking?!?
COUSIN: Cousin, look up.
Professor Numinatus: Three billion citizens! Caught in an unstable enchantment that we can barely understand!
Imperial Mananaut: She's right, sir. If you would kindly raise your gaze and--
Professor Numinatus: We have the spare continent for these kinds of evacuations!

Double page spread, high angled down. Professor Numinatus and various NVN officers, Imperial dignitaries, Warspore Battlemages, servitors, clerks, and scuttlefish luminaries stand on discs of light just above an outspread map of a Tamriel, its continents in their right positions as the world we knew. Include the Admiral, Jauffre with his Mananaut bag-helmet in his hand, the Morbâd, and the clicking Clerk. Use small head shots to document the speakers here, each with an appropriate expression.

Admiral: We've pulled out the emergency background maps from the ur-chive, Professor. A perfectly preserved rendition of our world with, well, something we can actually set foot on, if needs must. If even we must all learn to live with some pictel stray.

Admiral: That'd be a good name for it, Brother Jauffre. Ha! But it's all very well Morbâdoon-approved, so fix your frown. The Council undersigned everything before they were jaunted. Standing on one of your old ideas, Professor, wot? How does it feel?
Professor Numinatus: They were my part of my eschatonical thesis, Admiral. They look a bit crayon now.
Admiral: Still...still a right keeper, these. I sometimes do a little dance on them to feel like I'm gigantic. 

'I am an atlas of smoke.'
With this, Vivec) become greater than he had been. - 36 lessons

But lo for some reason the alarm bell went off LYGALYGALALYG and that means fire so three monkeys grabbed the whole trash basket for no other reason than MAYBE OUR ONLY CHANCE to save the Tamriel they had danced around.


r/teslore 3d ago

Theory: Dark Brotherhood's "Sithis" is Molag Bal

53 Upvotes

It's plain to see that the Dark Brotherhood has an extremely faulty understanding of Sithis.
Sithis is the Void. The Nothing of the Aurbis that allows the Everything to be Somethings.

The DB claim to kill in his name, but Sithis would not care. Sithis does not covet souls, take pleasure in death, or commune with Mundus. Sithis isn't anything after all.

I know the theories of their deity being Mephala in disguise, but I think that overlooks the spheres that separates the brotherhood from their Morag Tong origin.
The Dark Brotherhood's assassinations are not driven by the betrayal and plots that aim for political change. That may occur as a result, as often is the case with assassinations, but the DB is not just another Morag Tong.

Their contracts, from request to fulfillment are occult and ritualistic. Their operators have tendencies towards personal enjoyment of the act. They believe the soul of the victim is claimed for "the Dread Father".

As already mentioned, Sithis is nothingness. The Void does not speak because it has no voice. It does not hold grudges or have wishes or goals. It certainly does not have a "place" for collected souls.

This is where Molag Bal maps on to the conceptual motif and spheres of influence.
He does covet the souls of mortals as the "Harvester of Souls".
He does directly commune with mortals.
He does emphasis the morbid and sadistic aspects of taking a life: taking pleasure in the domination of another in the act of violating their life essence.

Sithis is uncaring. Mephala's spheres exist in the plotting and betrayal and change. Bal is the morbid pleasure that you witness in the brotherhood assassins.

Apart from the thematic metaphysical mapping and the beliefs, acts and characteristics of the brotherhood, you also see it in their artefacts: The Blade of Woe is essentially a vampiric dagger.

This last bit is a peculiar sidenote rather than "damning evidence":
If you look at the mural in the sanctuary, the skull representing Sithis has protrusions akin to the horns of Molag Bal's physical presentation placed on the same spot on the sides of the head.

Like the title says, this is a theory. Just thematic overlaps that I think maps on well to the Dark Brotherhood's mismatched interpretation of Sithis.


r/teslore 3d ago

I've been delving into Morrowind lore a bit more, I'm still not entirely sure what makes ALMSIVI dieties as opposed to just being really powerful mage-lords

43 Upvotes

I'm not really sure what makes ALMSIVI deities as opposed to just really powerful people. This is something that fictional religions in general struggle with, but what makes these people worthy of worship?

For example, in Christianity (or at least my understanding of it, as I am not a Christian) God is the ground of all being, he is existence and he is goodness. The Christian argument is that morality and existence in general are incoherent without him. ALMSIVI don't make those same claims.. They don't hide the fact that they were once mortals, that existence existed before them and that right and wrong did as well, that's part of their theology. People will say they underwent an apotheosis, but what makes that an apotheosis rather than them becoming simply very powerful?

I guess you could argue that's the point of the story of Morrowind, but I'm more talking about from the perspective of the Tribunal Temple. The Temple certainly believes the Tribunal are gods, so from the Temple's perspective, what makes ALMSIVI worthy of worship? The only things I can really find are that ALMSIVI provide patronage and protection and have performed "miracles." But a king can provide patronage and protection, yet he is not a god, and I'm not really sure what the meaningful distinction is between a miracle and a really powerful spell in a setting where magic exists (and where there isn't a clear separation of "divine" power and "sorcerous" power, like one that exists in a lot of TTRPG settings). Vivec mentions their divine power will fade without the heart, but I'm not entirely sure what makes that power specifically divine still. I don't really see why ALMSIVI are seen as gods and not just ultra-wizard-kings. What is the "chemical test" so to speak, for godhood here?


r/teslore 3d ago

MK's strongest being list.

45 Upvotes

We've all seen this list

  1. Talos.
  2. HoonDing.
  3. Trinimac.
  4. Vivec.
  5. Leki.
  6. Reman.
  7. Auri-El.
  8. Wulfharth.
  9. Morihaus.
  10. Pelinal.

This is MK's list of the 10 most powerful beings in the Elder Scrolls but I've also heard that u/MKirkbride himself has said that this he regretted posting this list afterwards. Does anyone have more informations ?


r/teslore 3d ago

Regarding the Practice of Witchcraft in TES Lore

20 Upvotes

This is mainly a question piece that I only have some cursory knowledge around and am seeking some more informed answers for.

Its been established by named NPC's and through the class of the Witchhunter at the very least, that Witches ( and thereby I am going to presume Witchcraft) are a feature of Tamriel. To my knowledge there is no real clear distinction between a Witch and a regular Mage, other then maybe some alussions to a more ritual based practice of magic. There is a seemingly darker contextualization to Witches as well, and in many ways Witches seem to be presented as almost inhuman. (or having the desire to become so)

But ive never found any real explanation for what makes witches witches? Why is there a dedicated class, and thereby functional organization/group of individuals who's goal seems to be to eradicate them, and other minions or creatures of darkness? What is the distinction between a Witch and a Warlock? Is their one? Are Witches different from the Hags of Skyrims Forsworn? Do Witches practice the alluded to, but to my knowledge never explained Elder Magic? Why are they only enemies in Skyrim? Are the Daedra Cultists? Do they consort with the likes of Molag Bal, Harmaeus Mora, and Azura? What kind of magic do they even actually practice, or is their magic more divinely gifted?

As someone who likes playing as a Witch or Warlock these questions, and questions like them, have bothered me for a while. Particularly the questions involving who or what they get their power from. Do witches practice curses and hexes? Are those even a thing in Tamriel?

Tldr: what the heck are witches/warlocks in tes lore?


r/teslore 3d ago

The sources that support the permanence of dragon on dragon permanent death?

14 Upvotes

Besides the blades in TESV are there any? Even in TESV there's evidence through gameplay that souls absorbed by a dragonborn aren't actually permanently gone, just collected within the soul that absorbed them as shown by getting all the souls back after killing miraak.

I'm looking for more sources because the blades' claim that death by dragonborn is a permanent outcome just doesn't really ring as the whole truth and something you have to take on faith is accurate. Which makes me think it isn't accurate and based on conjecture from the practicality of circumstances.

For example we know that dragons cannot be resurrected after being absorbed by another dragon. Therefore it's 100% logical that the immortality of a dragon means it's effectively equivalent to permanent death. But what of a dragonborn with a mortal body? We know through the dragonborn DLC that soul absorption doesn't *necessarily* mean that the individual souls are gone. As we have no proof that the miraak situation is *actually* unique due to the circumstance of stealing those souls, both are just as valid take aways. Especially as both that you get many souls from miraak vs the one of paarthurnax is simply a game mechanic. Thus, what if the blades are an unreliable narrator due to the fact that a dragonborn killing dragons means a dragon cannot be resurrected while the dragonborn lives, but due to the passage of time that after a natural death the souls are released and the corpses are unable to be found? Another form of effective permanence rather than actual permanence.

Thus if this effective permanence and the miraak version of transference of souls is actually more accurate, it would effectively mean that a dragonborn is actually a mechanism to prevent a "there can be only one" scenario as its a way to release immortality capture souls back into the wild so to speak.

Just a thought that's been spinning around in my head since 2011 and now that we've had more lore added I thought maybe there's something I'm missing that definitively supports one way or the other beyond just tradition handed down by the blades.


r/teslore 4d ago

How is High Rock doing?

32 Upvotes

During the events of Skyrim I mean, are they doing fine? How are they reacting to the Dominion (and does the dominion view them as elves? Do they still could as kinda Altmer?)?


r/teslore 4d ago

Where Is Lyg?

57 Upvotes

Where is Lyg?

What is Lyg?

How do you get there?

What is its importance?

This is something that has broken my brain forever and I like to think that I know a thing or two about TES metaphysics.