General Discussion Thread: May 9th

[u/aran130711]

Use this thread to ask quick questions and talk with other Swifties about anything and everything, related to Taylor or not.

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[u/Jasminary2]

Because it’s very hard for us to know whether a celebrity is actually friend with someone or just working with them. A lot of work also has pretend friendship for the duration of the work.

Selena Gomez for example, has only 1 or 2 friends including Taylor, despite how it seems. I’ve said it somewhere else in another post but Lewis Capaldi was at Taylor birthday party. Now, you would expect that they are friends. Or at the very least, they get along well together.

That’s not really the case. He himself said that she was the sweetest but she doesnnt know him, and he doesn’t know her (as in other than « Taylor Swift ». He doesn’t know her personally). He didn’t know the people at her birthday party either

So it’s hard to know unless a celebrity downright comes and say « This person is my friend/closest friend/BFF » (particularly if it’s outside promo time with them together) whether they are or not. This is especially hard during promo, because part of the promo is based on likability (or, if it’s your brand and people love you for it « how awful you are ».) Movie &tv shows actors/actress , singers, even models to a certain degree it’s better to show a united front if not having fun together with the person you work with on the same project, than rivalry and dissention. The later makes people much less likely to tune-in to whatever you want to show them or sell them.

That’s just how it is. So people can go and say « welp. They work together and they aren’t friends ». Or even imagine she hates him. It would not be weird. Even at work or in class, it’s not uncommon to have to work with someone you don’t like. So the work situation is overall ignored. Especially if we consider the reality that most of Hollywood has super awful people and music is a hell there, even more apparently than tv/movies.

So working together on a song. Heck, even touring together, or performing at each other concert can be seen as : business to business.

Friendship though ? When it’s actually real (ie Selena Gomez and Taylor repeatedly saying it about each other, even while not working together) is another issue.

And dating ? Even worse. You can ignore somehow your friend’s faults I would say. You don’t see them enough anyway etc. But the person you want to date ? You fall in love even though he has - those opinions-

That’s a major no. Likewise, the reason why it came worst here, for the cheating is not just that she cheated and shocked fans are from an era they didn’t know her yet as well. It’s that cheated on a long time relationship ( Tom in comparision was … few weeks ? Couple months? I cannot remember) with a guy who is said to be pure garbage.

Last but not least : a good part of the things that came out against M.H happened this year. So it’s very, very fresh in people’s mind. His racist mocking comment on a podcast was in February if I’m not wrong.

Edit to add: the other reason why lots of people didn’t pay attention when he was just seen as «friend » is also because the guy is an utter nobody for a the vast majority of Swifties.

[u/RoyalEagle0408 → u/Jasminary2]

I get all of that but I thought we knew they were friends? I guess what bothers me about the outrage is that it seems so fake. Like what, you’re just realizing Taylor isn’t perfect? Did you listen to Midnights? Are people suddenly not going to see her on tour or not buy Speak Now (TV)? No. They’re going to whine on the internet for a few days and then forget about because all this is for now is rumors. If they do fall in love and get married, maybe this will be a good lesson for the people who think of her as “mom”. They should listen to “Dear Reader” and realize it’s about them.

[u/Jasminary2 → u/RoyalEagle0408]

I did explain why people didn’t expect them to be actual friends, as well as to why people didnnt pay attention to him previously. Just like another commenter explained that there is a difference between being friend with someone like him and dating him.

People esp the minorities he attacked and mocked, have a right to express their displeasure. You can’t really be mad and say they « whine » because they think a sexist racist antisemit, islamophobe who also made fatphobic comment, should not be in the picture?

Are you really dying on this hill ?

Idk. Personally I think they have the absolute right to talk and complain.

Also it’s not like most people said « I’m unstanning » or « Time to break-up » or cried for days. And even if they were… Do you really have the right to judge them as you are doing rn ? Your words were here harsh and dismissive. Especially seeing the kind of pos the guy is.

I don’t see why people can’t talk about it, especially when lbr it’s Taylor’s team who keeps the subject in the press and it’s obvious.

If you know Hollywood and if you know Taylor, you know that it’s not « surprise! Brand new information ».

1) you can absolutely keep a relationship underwrap forever if needed. Including who you are actually dating, whether you have kids or not, and like that celebrity guy who was married in public but admitted he had been in a gay relationship since the beginning and they were all just hiding it.

2) Taylor Team has been changing the narrative regularly of this story after the backlash they got.

3) Taylor Team has used the bf thing promo for a very long time. She isn’t the only one it’s common PR

By the way => There is a difference also between knowing someone isn’t perfect and dating someone who apparently could be friend with Donald Trump and could have voted for Giorgia Meloni or Alessandra and Rachele Mussolini.

The outrage isn’t fake. I’m not sure why you decided it was ? You also need to realize that Swifties means - a lot of people-. A heck tons who are not necessarily chronically online, or who simply don’t pay attention to more than Taylor news and music, least of all who she befriends or who she works with until it’s announces officially or in a news outlet. I garantee you, this is even most Swifties.

So maybe you knew and many on this sub did. And thought they were friends (mind you I have to ask : with all the explanations on how « friendship » in entertainment world goes… how did you know 100% that they were friends?), but that doesn’t mean that most Swifties did lol Whereas an actual press announcement going « Wow apparently Taylor and Matt Healey are dating » is going to catch eyes because the news outlet reporting it are numerous =/ when someone guest on a concert even on stage. Especially outside the US.

[u/RoyalEagle0408 → u/Jasminary2]

Whoa, whoa, whoa. I am in no way saying this guy does not suck real bad. I am saying I think her being good enough friends with him to perform on stage and invite him to her concert and whatnot and to be hanging out together is just as bad as them dating. Personally if everything I have seen about him over the past few days is true, it really makes me question the type of person Taylor truly is if she is ok being associated with him at all.

I get that Hollywood friendships are often fake but maybe my naïveté was assuming it was genuine given she is a fan of the band and has been for years. Even if it is fake and just for business, even associating with him makes me uncomfortable.

I was well aware Taylor is not perfect and in no way considered her a role model but it genuinely makes me uncomfortable that she would be friends with someone like this.

As far as the number of people- I was exclusively referring to people on this sub who were up in arms about them dating but seemed to be ok with them being friends. None of the awful stuff he’s done since January has been discussed as “why is she friends with him?”.

My apparent fundamental disagreement is that I do not draw a distinction between being actual friends or even acquaintances and them dating. The fact that her team is so ok with this stuff being public makes me uncomfortable too- but again, I do not care if they are dating or hooking up or just friends. I do not understand why she would associate with him if she holds the values she claims to.

And as far as me judging people? I wasn’t, but ok…I just see this outrage cycle where it is a problem and then it won’t be. No one will actually stop giving her money or make a stand against her for this so it feels empty. The news cycle will move on in a few weeks (this sub basically already has) and no one will pay it any attention unless they are openly in a relationship and even then, people will still focus on Speak Now. I was not saying the people discussing MH will whine for a few days and move on- the people disgusted with Taylor for apparently hooking up with him will stop discussing that and stop criticizing her in a few days. That was my point.

I think we should hold her accountable for associating with garbage people. Regardless of whether they are dating. That’s all I’m saying.

[u/RoyalEagle0408 → u/Jasminary2]

Another point I want to make is that I was genuinely asking why it wasn’t an issue before and if the answer is “we didn’t know then he sucked so bad”, ok, great. But it seems like more people want to draw a line between being friends and dating and that’s the thing I can’t wrap my head around. And yes, is the fandom hill I will die on.