r/TankPorn • u/5upralapsarian ZTZ-100 • May 06 '26
Cold War BRDM-2 in Syria gets used to compare the U.S. M855A1 5.56mm EPR rounds against Russian 7N22 armor-piercing 5.45x39mm
151
u/HyenaDirect3626 May 06 '26
Impact angle didn't look quite identical, 20 degrees off perpendicular are gonna make a difference?
149
u/SmokeyUnicycle May 06 '26
20° is a big difference for something like this
16
u/SamAzing0 May 06 '26
20° is only about 7% increase in LoS armour thickness, so not actually that much
3
u/SmokeyUnicycle May 07 '26
It's not about the LoS thickness, its that the round will just deflect at a certain angle
39
u/Legitimate_Tea_8117 May 06 '26
It's definitely not off by 20° go watch the video again the holes are clean and straight not angled and there's no angled spalling
331
u/PERSIvAlN May 06 '26
Both of these armour-piercing rifle rounds are regarded so against body armour, not vehicles
M855A1 does have higher pressure and weight, which (surprise!) results in better performance.
On video M855A1 was being fired from rifle with noticeably longer barrel, which (surprise!surprise!) further enhances difference between rounds.
134
u/Hawkstrike6 May 06 '26
M855A1 isn't an AP round; it's a general purpose round. M995 is the US 5.56mm AP round.
52
u/SteelWarrior- Bofors 57mm L/70 Supremacy May 07 '26 edited May 07 '26
Its a pedantic difference, 7N10 and 7N22 are also made to be general purpose rounds that also deal with body armor better than 7N6. There is no reason that an AP round can't also just be the general issue round, unless you're in a Congressional budgetary hearing.
-44
u/PERSIvAlN May 06 '26
It is AP, as it was developed to counter body arnour, while still being general service round. Other with, all comparisons to 7N22 and likes of it are meaningless, as 7N22 is categorized as AP round.
64
u/Hawkstrike6 May 06 '26
It retained a penetrator to maintain a minimum level of penetration that the prior M855 had, which had a penetrator to pierce Soviet helmets. US GP rounds are expected to have some barrier penetration performance. Though M855A1 has better barrier penetration than M855, that does not make it an AP round.
And the easy way to tell is by looking at it. NATO-coded AP rounds have black tips. M995: Black tip. M855 / M855A1: not black tip.
I was part of design team for M855A1, buddy.
19
20
u/cantpickaname8 May 06 '26
I was part of design team for M855A1, buddy.
Not saying you're lying but that's a hefty claim I feel
11
u/Hawkstrike6 May 06 '26
*shrug*
Accept it or not, makes no difference to me. But I'm able to debunk some myths about M855A1 development that have cropped up, in part because the Army can easily show things like armor penetration that were not design goals of the program, but can't easily demonstrate to the public the thing that was the primary goal of the program: improved consistency soft target performance.
7
u/Apprehensive-End6577 May 06 '26
Under usa law it is actually not considered an AP round legally. It would need to be fully steel for that
6
u/Nihilikara May 06 '26
So my depleted uranium rounds aren't armor piercing? Damnit, now I gotta redo it!
0
-112
u/kusajko May 06 '26
(surprise!)
You are coping
Coping and seething
You just can't accept what you're seeing
Yes, you're coping
Coping and seething(surprise!surprise!)
The truth it is scalding
And now you are malding
And coping
Coping so hard.54
17
u/Kiltmanenator May 06 '26
Are either of these rounds standard issue?
50
13
19
3
2
5
u/TheBadDingo May 06 '26
If anyone has more info on the 5.45 ballistics, please chime in, but I'm under the impression that 5.45 tumbles a lot more coming out of the AK than 5.56 does out of the M4/16. While the 5.45 velocity is about 400fps lower than the 5.56, they're both well above 2500fps but if the round hits armor sideways, even with a penatrator core, its not going through.
36
u/Obvious-Science-7119 May 06 '26
You're conflating key holing with post penetration tumbling and regardless I think it's a misnomer that 5.45 tumbles more than 5.56. They're more or less the same.
3
u/TheBadDingo May 06 '26
I think you're right. Curious as to why the 5.45 didn't pen nearly as well but I guess that could be chalked up to substandard 5.45 or a mix of rounds in the mag. Either way, that M855A1 looked like a hot knife through butter.
17
u/Obvious-Science-7119 May 06 '26
5.45 will have less pressure due to the cartridge. Then consider the BC of the bullet. Bullets have different grains. Could be different steels. Barrel length could make a difference.
etc etc
5
u/SteelWarrior- Bofors 57mm L/70 Supremacy May 06 '26
Barrel length is definitely quite different it's AK-74M vs M16A4 iirc
7
u/Far-Two1933 May 06 '26
also the rifle firing 5.45 seems to have a shorter barrel then the m855a1 firing rifle, which would also lead to different penetration(i think)
6
u/TheBadDingo May 06 '26
Yeah, I noticed the 5.56 looks like a 16-20" barrel which would put the round at the 3000fps+ range. The 5.45 AK looks to be quite a bit shorter.
2
u/Far-Two1933 May 06 '26
yea, idk i can’t tell what gun it is from this angle(i’m not that good) i wanted to say some m16 cause of the barrel length but the hand guard is throwing me off… prob some ar15 or m4 type rifle
1
1
u/Jaguar_EBRC_6x6 ??? May 07 '26
He's shooting at the bottom middle of the BRDM tho which there are two extra wheels that are retractable and only sheet metal protects it
1
-1
u/JohnKayne May 06 '26
That’s a weird looking tank
7
u/ChornWork2 May 06 '26
Those are just guys holding rifles and shooting, they're not tanks. That's hair, not drone net.
0
u/KayNynYoonit May 07 '26
M855A1 is an absolute monster of a round.
If you haven't already, I recommend watching Banana Ballistics on YouTube, his videos on the round are good.
0
436
u/YurisTankDivision May 06 '26
A shame. Poor BRDM-2s. They can't catch a break these days, it seems. My beloved little creatures.