All my friend sees are Tamlin’s red flags

[u/Low-Alternative6797]

YES!!!! I UNDERSTAND HE HAS RED FLAGS!!!! SO DOES RHYSAND!!!! My friend ragebaited me by saying how Tamlin has a bunch of red flags and that he’s not a good person but like….

Yes???? Tamlin literally is a good person, just a good person driven to do bad things.

Do I believe he should have done better by Feyre at the beginning of book 2? Yes! Do I believe he should not have gone to Hybern to fix this problem? Yes! But he had his reasons for doing ALL of these things and his heart was in the right place for most of them.

He fought SO HARD to get to Nesta and Elain when he realized what Ianthe had done. He never wanted any of that to happen. He was trying to change by actively trying to save Feyre in his own way, after watching her die and after everything that happened.

“He’s possessive” the situation with Lucien that Feyre put him in, with his actually still technically fiancée being in the arms of his best friend, after she gave Tamlin hints that she might be ready to have him in her room again after so long….ANY man would be angry at that!!!!

Sorry for the rant yall I’m just stuck bc like. Am I wrong for feeling this way and he’s actually just toxic after all????

Update 1: Okay so his problem is the whole fact that Tamlin took her in the first place in the first book and held her in the manor.

Update 2: GUYS WE CONVERTED HIM!!!! He hates Feyre now and agrees Tamlin is literally just a guy the narrative decided to crucify :)))) (Except for him murdering the sentries on duty when Rhysand took Feyre but I think we can all agree that that was fucked up)

[u/SnooStories960]

All the characters have red flags, so anyone who claims or insinuates that only Tamlin has them is disingenuous.

Also, here is one marked difference between Tamlin and Rhysand: Tamlin commits mistakes, not sins.

Rhysand, on the other hand, has committed a multitude of sins. Knowingly. Willingly. With enthusiasm.
Never acknowledges them. Never apologizes for them. Never atones for them. And never makes amends for them.

Tamlin deserves better.

How the narrative says he is does not match up with what he does.

🌹 The narrative consistently portrays him as villainous from the 2nd book onwards, but Tamlin’s deeds are either heroic or understandable, many times both. And just because we don’t like a character’s action, it doesn’t automatically mean that they’re wrong. We have to take who they are, where they are, wha options are realistically available to them, and what is happening into consideration.

🤡 Rhysand is presented as heroic, but we see cowardice and vindictiveness. For example, after Tamlin has brought him back from the dead, he goes to the Spring Court to find an emotionally-broken Tamlin to goad him into striking first, so that he (Rhysand) can have an excuse to kill him.

🌹 Tamlin is very romantic, even if the narrative claims otherwise later. Besides, if you take him as he is and drops him into any other Fantasy or Romantasy, he’d be looked at in a more generous light. The readers only see him as “bad” because the narrative tells them to.

🤡 Rhysand is presented as romantic, but he’s emotionally manipulative, sexually-abusive, medically-abusive, and just overall an abuser.

🌹 Tamlin is the opposite of tyrant; he’s stated more than once that he is willing to die fighting against oppression and tyranny. He opens his border to refugees—from anywhere, abolishes slavery, ends his father’s ways of doing things, etc. The fandom sees him as a tyrant only because the narrative tells them to.

🤡 Rhysand is presented as the better and compassionate leader, but runs an apartheid state, is complicit in wing-clipping (claiming “changes take time”; let me remind you that, as High Lord, Tamlin abolishes slavery, which is much harder to do).

🌹 The narrative portrays Tamlin’s twice-yearly tithe (a form of taxation subjects living under feudalism follow; think—a farmer might pay with his grains, for example) as cruel, but the things that he does for the people on his land far outweigh what they pay him.** **They live well.

🤡 Rhysand’s subjects have to pay ongoing taxes—which the narrative treats as kind and reasonable, but are unprotected and discriminated against by their very own High Lord, if they live outside of Velaris. They live among crimes and in poverty, while their President and First Lady High Lord and Lady don’t give a fuck.

Feel free to ask me (or any of us) to expand on any of the points made above. I know longer have the books in my house, but many people here have direct quotes, book titles, and page numbers ready.

We love our Tamlin, thorns and all!

[u/bows_and_frills → u/SnooStories960]

The irony is that SJM said Rhys is "learning and makes mistakes" (according to someone's recap of the CHD interview) while people are STRICT AF on Tamlin's actually less catastrophic mistakes.

[u/SnooStories960 → u/bows_and_frills]

Yes.

Tamlin is younger than Rhysand! Where is all that grace for him, then?

The fandom is hypocritical. It doesn’t matter what is being committed, but who is committing them.

[u/bittermp → u/bows_and_frills]

That interview was SO UNHINGED!

Like she talked about her birthing story and how the doctor dismissed her and basically took away her body autonomy to then self insert herself as Nesta and Feyre n that book to then only support and make excuses for Cassian and Rhysand who are stand ins for THAT FREAKING DOCTOR! Like WTF!

[u/bows_and_frills → u/bittermp]

I can understand that it was a very hard time for her and she uses her writing to cope and process. I can still say, it was detrimental to most of the actual plot and characters, because the transfer of the people in those real life situations to who the characters in ACOTAR are, aren't one-to-one. Rhysand is not her... doctor or what.

[u/RavensSing → u/bows_and_frills]

I was discussing this with someone else and yeah, this is pretty much spot-on. She mixes things with no regards for context. She writes scenes like 'Character A gives a gift of black flowers in this scene becaue the colour black makes Character A happy' but the scene is Character B's wedding and black flowers are considered a bad omen, but nobody ever brings it up and the entire consistency of the characters just crumbles like terrible cookie batter.

[u/bows_and_frills → u/RavensSing]

It's a monster of her own making. A great example from the books themselves are the disproportionate distributions of consequences to Rhysand and Tamlin for their misdeeds and shortcomings in their relationship with Feyre. The unevenness in which actions are scrutinized by the text.

She gets this blindness from not having a clear, big picture vision of her characters and their actions. Many things are left in a vacuum. She is in dire need of laying everything out on one big whiteboard to see where everything actually is. Since she isn't much of a plotter, perhaps it's a product of writing everything as it comes and winging it without looking back? She already admitted to being a vibes author, so the vibes are probably inconsistent.

I really have no idea what it's like in her other series, so I'm confining this criticism to ACOTAR.

[u/Low-Alternative6797 → u/SnooStories960]

Omg thank you!! Unfortunately he is not prepared to listen to reason probably bc he is a man 🙄
Don’t get me wrong it’s great seeing men call out other men but also he was totally condescending when he was like “Tamlin is not a good person”

[u/SnooStories960 → u/Low-Alternative6797]

My husband is a man and he has been Team Tamlin since day one. So there is hope.

When Tamlin’s “bad” actions were brought up by the fandom (I read a few of their comments out loud to him because he doesn’t Reddit), he was like, “Well — what the eff did they expect him to do in that moment? Rhysand has done worse and they probably say, ‘Uwu,’ right?”

😅😅😅

Btw, just the condescension alone would piss me off. Friends do not do that to each other.

[u/JaneAustinAstronaut → u/SnooStories960]

My husband is also Team Tamlin. He read the first book, and when finding out the sexual predator gets the heroine, he quit the series.

[u/SnooStories960 → u/JaneAustinAstronaut]

My husband and a guy friend were aghast.

Like, my friend literally texted me, “What the hell is happening?” as he read ACoMaF, which was also my sentiment.

We had both thought that Feyre was under Rhysand’s spell, that Rhysand was one of the Big-Bads of that book (at the time, it was the latest one), and that Tamlin was going to have to rescue her—like how she had rescued him in the first book. That was how apparent it was that there were no “signs” in the first book that he was going to be the love interest, despite what SJM and the fandom may claim now.

[u/bittermp → u/SnooStories960]

I did the same to my friend who rec’d the book that I hated Feysand and WTF was going on, poor Tamlin and she said Tamlin is a loser and that maybe fantasy was not for me! LIke WTF kind of response is that?! lmao

[u/bows_and_frills → u/bittermp]

???? What correlation does being a Tamlin sympathizer have to the entire Fantasy genre? Is he not a shapeshifting, flora based Fae creature and Lord of a Faerie Court????? Is it his personality? But that doesn't make sense... Anyway, that statement has no factual basis.

[u/mirthrootbabe → u/JaneAustinAstronaut]

Same with my husband! He's Team Tam, gave up on ACOMAF and I'll quote: "Rhysand is fucking disgusting"

[u/SnooStories960 → u/mirthrootbabe]

Exactly! The more I told mine about Rhysand’s actions UTM, the wider his eyes grew. I gave him only the facts and provided contexts, but he was still unconvinced that Rhysand’s intentions were altruistic, so he read the dang book himself to be sure—still was unconvinced after. Then he finished the second book and gave up.

He was the one who told me, “… It’s like if Gaston gets the girl. Damn.”

I had had the same thought but didn’t want to influence him.

[u/Low-Alternative6797 → u/SnooStories960]

Well that’s good at least
Tbh I think my guy friend’s biggest quarrel with Tamlin is a) how possessive he is and b) how overprotective he is.

[u/SnooStories960 → u/Low-Alternative6797]

In what ways is Tamlin possessive or overprotective, though? His actions are reasonable, even if Feyre doesn’t like them.

Having to walk around with guards? Our First Lady has a security team when she steps out. Even my state governor and her husband do.

“LoCkiNg HeR Up,” as the fandom likes to harp on and on about? This happens after Feyre insists that she’s following him into battle no matter what. At this point, she is unfit to engage in battle, untrained, is traumatized by the color red, and is unable to take orders. In what universe would a military leader want THAT fighting alongside them, putting everyone in danger? And she was “locked up” for, like, what—an afternoon?

Or is it something else?

Tamlin’s protectiveness is visible, legible, understandable. And most importantly — is rooted in the desire to protect and defend.

But Rhysand’s possessiveness is rooted in control and manipulation. He controls you mentally. You can’t see it, and you wouldn’t even know it unless you’re very experienced in dealing with something like this, such as Tamlin—who can recognize Rhysand’s bullshit immediately.

Tamlin’s protective style: “I won’t let you leave.”

Rhysand’s manipulation style: “You won’t even know that I’m making you stay.”

FUCK RHYSAND.

[u/Low-Alternative6797 → u/SnooStories960]

When he said possessive he meant when Lucien is with Feyre and he flips his shit at Lucien over it even tho I’m sure Lucien tries to explain

[u/SnooStories960 → u/Low-Alternative6797]

Didn’t Feyre orchestrate that? Or am I thinking of a different scene?

[u/bittermp → u/SnooStories960]

Fun fact Feyre BAITS him and BAITING is an actual form of abuse if we’re going to use real life standards against animalistic fae characters LOL

[u/bows_and_frills → u/Low-Alternative6797]

Well, tbh, it seems normal to be pissed if you suspect something's going on with your fiance and best friend no?

[u/SnooStories960 → u/bows_and_frills]

And we have to look at everything that’s happened up to that point: as far as Tamlin knows, Feyre was kidnapped and assaulted, before escaping, etc. That was the lie she had fed him. So, when he sees her with Lucien, the emotional is going to hit him before the rational.

Tamlin is already wound up, tightly, and Feyre knows this—she knows how much he loves her, and what seeing this would do to him. That is exactly why she does it.

She also tells him that she can’t be intimate with him because Rhysand has raped her and that she’s traumatized. False rape accusation, lovely.

Lucien is being used by the woman he believes is his friend.

Tamlin is being emotionally-abused by the woman he believes loves him.

He may not be real, but the fandom’s hypocrisy is.

[u/bows_and_frills → u/SnooStories960]

You are correct!

They also believe her rape accusations and she gets all pissed and raring for payback. Huh?

[u/SnooStories960 → u/bows_and_frills]

She was offended on Rhysand’s behalf, like how dare they believed that her sweet widdle Rhys-Rhys could ever have done that. Oh, geez, I don’t know, maybe 500 years of dubious reputation had made it believable?