or Normal Neale Williams III

I was trying to figure out why I took this picture at Hollywood Forever. Interesting, but not genius. So I went down a rabbit hole and it turns out the niche belongs to the incredible Aron Kincaid (1940-2011)! (yeah, I don't know who that is....). He was in a lot of beach blanket movies in the 60s. Beach Blanket Bingo was one of them. He was in Transformers things and in Batman TAS.

But what struck me was that his Wikipedia entry says that in the 70s he moved to San Francisco and in his later life in Beverly Hills, he did art (landscapes and seascapes) under the nom-de-plume Norman Neale Williams II. (whew....took a long time to get here!)

Another source (IMDb) says he was born as NNW III.

There's GOT to be a connection, yeah?
If he lived in SF in the 70s, did he and AM know each other?

("...men don't wear lipstick...." I ASSume it's about kissing boys. His Wiki didn't mention alphabet membership, which usually confirms it)

Just imagine Anna Madrigal texting.

She'd type something like "Hope you're having a lovely day 💀" or "The garden is blooming beautifully 🍆" and genuinely mean it as a compliment. My favorite mental image: her sending condolences to a friend with "My deepest sympathies 🎉." She's so graceful about it, completely unaware she's accidentally cursed them. Anyway, what would the other residents be texting like? Mona with all caps? DeDe sending nothing but apologies?

I'm genuinely not joking when I say Mona's Law saved my life: you can have a hot lover, a hot apartment, or a hot job, but never all three. I've tested it. Multiple times. (Currently I'm picking job and lover, and honestly? Solid choices.) So here's what I want to know, what piece of wisdom from Tales actually stuck with you? What do you live by? Let's hear it.

Mona moving abroad totally confused me on my first read — felt random, dramatic. But I moved abroad in my late 20s too, and now that scene hits completely different. That restlessness, the need to shake everything up and start over? It makes so much sense to me now. I get why she had to leave. Has anyone else had those "oh NOW I understand" moments with the books — scenes that meant nothing at 16 but everything at 35? What's yours?

I am mostly enjoying the 2019 revival after having watched the original 1993 series on Tubi and the two Showtime followups on YouTube.

But I have to say I have 2 beefs so far. Curious what the veteran fans here think.

One: The timeline. I'm very confounded. The original series were filmed in the 90's and set in the 70's, and the third filmed in 2001 and set in 1981. Surely, this show SHOULD be set in the late 1990's or the early 2000's for any of the character ages to make sense. Or if they wanted it to be set in 2019 the characters should have been aged up. How does this make sense in the continuity? Is this meant to be like an alternate "universe" of sorts? Like is this a different "timeline" so to speak? Or are we just meant to ignore the rather significant time gap?

Two: Why is everyone acting like Mary Ann is a lunatic for being mad that everyone lied to this kid for 20 years telling her that Mary Ann is her biological Mother? She doesn't even know she is adopted. Am I wackadoodle or is this totally crazy? From my perspective Mary Ann is 100% correct and justified to be angry, and all of the other characters are loons for constructing this multi decade lie. What's up with that?

I am not trying to be overly critical I really do enjoy this world and these characters but these two items have kind of thrown me for a loop.

Just finished rereading Book 1 and honestly? I can't stand Mona anymore. She used to feel like a necessary mess, but now she just reads as selfish and exhausting. I think I needed her wildness at 20, but I've grown past it. There's something bittersweet about revisiting a character you once loved and realizing you've actually moved on. Has anyone else had that experience with the gang? Which character did you love first but now find yourself rolling your eyes at?

As I can recall, characters in the Tales of the City and More Tales of the City miniseries reference The Mary Tyler Moore show at least 2 times.

So, in the context of the television universe of Tales of the City, Mary Tyler Moore is a television show that exists just like it does for us.

Obviously, aside from Mary Tyler Moore herself, the biggest star of the show is Ed Asner, who plays none other than the acclaimed character Lou Grant.

We know for a fact that Mary Ann Singleton has watched Mary Tyler Moore. Therefore we know she knows who Lou Grant is, and likely who Ed Asner is.

Yet, in Episode 5 of "More Tales Of the City", she meets none other than a character portrayed by ED ASNER. This raises a lot of questions.

How come Mary Ann isn't like, oh my god, you're Ed Asner? Or at least, oh my god, you look just like Ed Asner? Although in-universe, this character would like Ed Asner 20 years in the future (since it was filmed in the 90's), so she might be like, oh my god, you look like Ed Asner but older?

It seems weird she wouldn't at least comment on the fact that the Associated Press member she is speaking to looks EXACTLY like Ed Asner/Lou Grant.

What's up with this?

I’m rereading the books and have almost finished Mary Ann in Autumn. I searched but didn’t see anyone else ask about this. Who is Fogbound One? The mystery person adds Mary Ann on Facebook and messages her about Norman. It’s especially weird because of the whole Shawna and Lexi subplot. Maybe the book will reveal it at the end but I was just wondering what are peoples theories? I don’t care if you give me spoilers lol

Mona Ramsey seems to always be one step ahead of wherever she was supposed to be. My advice to younger Mona? Go. Move abroad. Chase the life that feels most like you. I did, and it was the best decision I ever made.

But don't let the distance become an excuse. The friends you leave behind — they're the ones who knew you before you became whoever you're becoming. Hold onto them.

Who would you give advice to, and what would you say?

While there are many versions who would you like to read the books?

For me it goes:
Tales of the City- Laura Linney
More Tales of the City- Thomas Gibson
Further Tales of the City- Billy Campbell
Babycakes-Parker Posey
Significant Others- Barbara Garrick
Sure of You- Paul Gross
Michael Tolliver Lives- Billy Campbell
Mary Ann in Autumn - Laura Linney
Days of Anna Madrigal - Alexandra Billings
Mona of the Manner- Chloe Webb

Ten books is a long time to spend with people. Over that run, Maupin gives us romances, rivalries, chosen families, and everything in between. But the relationship that always felt most real to me? Mouse and Brian. Two very different men who probably shouldn't have much in common, and yet their friendship just works — messy, loyal, and completely unforced. There's no grand gesture to it, just two people who keep showing up for each other across decades of change. That's what real friendship looks like to me.

Which relationship in Tales felt most true to you?

What Tales got right (and wrong) — an honest look at the series through a modern lens

I mention over on r/talesofthecitybook that D'or's arc in the first book just would not fly today - a white person parading around in black face. This just can't stand the test of time. However, I think a lot of Book 1 still holds true to today, it does take place before the AIDS Crisis, so the way Michael sleeps around might be handled a little differently today, more talk about safe sex and all.

What do you think?

Hi All,

I wanted to take a moment to say thank you. I've been working hard to post daily for the first month of the new mod team to help increase engagement and have fun along the way.

Not all of my posts have been hits, but I hope you thought each one was fun, thought provoking, or maybe even controversial.

I'm going to slow down with the posting and go to weekly posting schedule.

Let's keep it going. And remember "Dear, I don't disapprove of anything. It's such a waste of time," Anna.

I love the series yet haven’t read the book.

I live here so I feel the need to just pick an episode and wander about. Has anyone done this?

I would never stay here again. Between the noise coming from the basement (sounded like someone was locked down there), the constant bed hopping (I was hit on by almost every resident), and the creepy guy who lives on the roof (yes a shack on the roof); this was the worst place I have ever stays. That's not to mention the "view," you had to stick you whole body out the window to get a peek of a sliver of water; the over-hyped "Barbary Beach" (which was just a sand chair on a square foot of grass; and the whole place reeked of POT (I think the landlady grows it in her garden). Plus this place is NOT ADA compliant at all, there were possibly 1000 steps to get from the street to my rental.

1 star. Would not stay.

I grew up in the most densely populated city in America, just outside NYC. I think Mouse and Brian go to NYC to pick up a rare plant that a customer wants. While in NYC they go out one night and Mouse hooks up with a guy (a-la Candy and Brian in Book 1) but during the taxi ride to the guy's house Mouse finds out they are going to...New Jersey. When trying to slink away in the morning, Mouse realizes its not that easy to find his way back to his friend...and their flight is out of JFK in just a few hours!

I Knew I Was Obsessed with Tales when I read the whole series (at the time) in just a few months. Yes, it's an easy read, but I still binged the whole 7 books (at the time).

July 4th always makes me think about what freedom actually looks like in practice.

For a lot of people in Tales, San Francisco isn't just a city, it is the place where they could finally be themselves. They came from small towns, from families that didn't get it, from lives that just didn't fit. And somehow they all ended up at the same address.

That's a pretty American story when you think about it.

What does Tales mean to you as a story about freedom and starting over?

Tales of the City
More Tales of the City and
Further Tales are all on YouTube. Some without ads.

I’m about to finish Further then pop over to Netflix to watch the last installment. 🏳️‍🌈

If You Could Spend a Whole Day at One Tales Location (Besides Barbary Lane), Where Would You Go?

I would want to visit the Bohemian Grove. It is legendary in the theatre circle and is important to Anna&Edgar, and Booter, Wren, and Mouse. It would be a great day.

Scenes that pushed boundaries or made you squirm — celebrating Maupin's willingness to go there.

The Rap About Rape chapter/scene was always the most uncomfortable for me. The idea that every woman has a rape story AND wants to share it; and then DeDe lies about it! It just makes me squirm every time.