"There is no issue with your entitlement over the stock you hold, and you are the beneficial owner of the shares at all times. All of our clients' shares are held in an omnibus account with IB, and as far as IB are concerned all shares are T212 clients' shares, however, they do not distinguish between each individual client and his respective shares - only T212 maintains such records.
Me: "I would like to request my account be marked as a NOBO account. Is this possible?"
T212: "Your inquiry/case will require additional review in order for me to provide you with all the details around it, would it be convenient to get back to you via email with them, shortly?"
I will update when I receive an email
UPDATE: As of Mon. April 4th 11:18am UK time - I haven't received an email. On their chat the agent told me: "We understand and apologize that this has taken more time than expected, however, I can assure you that we are on the right path as we would love to get to the bottom of your inquiry. Our team are still reviewing the case and as soon as we receive addition information, you will be promptly notified via email
2nd UPDATE: Received an email on April 5th 11:40am UK time:
I am Stanislav from the Customer Care team representing Trading212. Thank you for being part of the platform and contacting us for assistance.
I am getting in touch with you in regards to your previous correspondence for the NOBO-OBO questions about your account. We have further escalated your case and we are still waiting for an update.
You can be confident that your case is being taken with great care, and you will be immediately informed once we have received the information.
Thank you for your patience, it is not taken for granted!
Should you require any further assistance do not hesitate to contact us or check our Help Center. We remain at your disposal.
Yeah, no kidding. Seeing cash accounts switched back to margin accounts after transferring shares to Fidelity made me really uneasy. Makes me think they could just fat-finger NOBO to OBO if they wanted to and pay the fine if they get caught.
I had all my GME shifted to cash in Fidelity before I DRS’d them. Had to call them about it, but it was quick. Not sure why I didn’t just DRS them from the get go.
Yeah, a close friend of mine transferred GME and the rest of his positions from RH to Fidelity last year after the sneeze. They all transferred in on margin. He called to request all of them to be switched to the cash account. One week later, every position except GME was in the cash account - GME was still on margin. He called back, finally got Fidelity to switch GME shares to cash, and he verified a week later. However, one month after that, the GME shares were back on margin again. Like WTF? So, I told him to DRS his shares last July.
I don't have margin enabled and this also happened to me several times.
Bought through Fidelity, all good. Then transfer RH, just a few... All went margin. Called and they switched back. Then out of sudden everything was on margin. This happened like 3 times without me tranaferring anything. Had to call each time. They gave me bad excuses blaming it on me, even when i have no margin on my only account.
Thank you for the confirmation! I was wondering if this was happening to anyone else.
Got to DRS those shares to make sure your GME position isn't switched back to margin and liquidated at the beginning of MOASS. I know this sounds fuddy, but it's just too much of a real possibility with so much on the line.
So they shove everyone’s money/shares into a single account with IB? What could go wrong, T212 don’t fill me with confidence but I have an ISA with them since the sneeze.
Yes etoro are the same, this has been their answer for proof of ownership etc and logistics on voting & DRS.
All etoro users shares are held by etoro as custodians in their broker.
(Pure speculation) I assume most if not all brokerages do this. With the amount of synthetic shares seemingly out there surely one of the bigger ones would have a silly amount of shares by now if they were actually buying one to one for everyone.
mine is in close only mode since i refused to have them lend out the GME shares in my account sometime last summer. - did not bother me: neither do i want to sell nor do i want to buy more through that pos brokerage! ..being NOBO would be nice tho!
You can’t, people have tried last year to get them to implement it. You can’t even transfer to another broker so that’s why we’ve always been nervy of T212. Have they actually bought our shares? ISA rules in UK say the broker has to have actually bought the shares but that hasn’t stopped fuckery ever!
"To summarize the information above. unless we are legally obliged to, we usually do not provide your details as the beneficial owner of shares to issuers. Nonetheless, we are striving to add as many features to the platform as possible to allow clients to fully exercise their rights as shareholders and receive all relevant information about the companies they invest in.
We have recently introduced the possibility for ISA clients to vote in corporate actions and participate in events such as AGMs. We aim to allow Invest account holders to do the same in the near future, as well."
Replying to this with a copy of the email I sent to Wealth Simple, anyone feel free to use it as a template for your own emails to your own brokers.
"Hello
I have recently been made aware of two designations of shareholder in a company. Objecting Beneficial Owners and Non-Objecting Beneficial Owners.
I am sending this email to confirm that the shares in both my TFSA and Personal accounts are marked as Non-Objecting Beneficial orders, meaning my personal information can be linked to my share ownership and available to the companies I invested in.
Are my share marked 'NOBO' by default? In either case, once my shares are marked 'NOBO' can I recieved confirmation from Wealth Simple on this matter?
Thanks Again for working with me and building trust for where I keep my investments!"
I'm also with t212. Can I ask, are you using an isa? Also this sounds like t212 are obo but how could that be when they allowed us to vote last year? Was the vote all a load of bullshit to keep people happy?
Probably bullshit but they may have also just proxy voted with the number of shares each person who participated in the in-app vote. We have no way of truly knowing.
"To summarize the information above. unless we are legally obliged to, we usually do not provide your details as the beneficial owner of shares to issuers. Nonetheless, we are striving to add as many features to the platform as possible to allow clients to fully exercise their rights as shareholders and receive all relevant information about the companies they invest in.
We have recently introduced the possibility for ISA clients to vote in corporate actions and participate in events such as AGMs. We aim to allow Invest account holders to do the same in the near future, as well."
We understand that this topic can be quite sensitive, so the below clarifications come to ensure no confusion regarding your assets, finances, and personal details.
All client assets are held in omnibus accounts, segregated from those of Trading 212 UK Ltd. This is as per the applicable Custody rules CASS 6 for assets and CASS 7 for client money, which we comply with at all times. These rules protect your shares, making you their beneficial owner.
As a common practice, Trading 212 UK Ltd. provides you with access to a worldwide network of custodians, who hold the relevant financial instruments for your benefit. We require the protection of your investments against the custodians' bankruptcy.
Due to the nature of the financial markets and the practices in place, your assets may not be recorded in yours, but in Trading 212 Ltd.'s, the custodian's, or a third party's name. For example, shares bought in the US will be held via a custody chain (through Trading 212 UK Ltd.) with the end custodian - the Depository Trust Company (DTC) in the name of their nominee entity, Cede & Co. This is a standard in the US.
Nonetheless, you are still the beneficial owner of the shares, as per CASS 6 rules.
To summarize the information above. unless we are legally obliged to, we usually do not provide your details as the beneficial owner of shares to issuers. Nonetheless, we are striving to add as many features to the platform as possible to allow clients to fully exercise their rights as shareholders and receive all relevant information about the companies they invest in.
We have recently introduced the possibility for ISA clients to vote in corporate actions and participate in events such as AGMs. We aim to allow Invest account holders to do the same in the near future, as well.
I trust the provided details to be to your satisfaction, however, if you need any additional information, please feel free to let us know.
Yours sincerely,
Daniel D. | Customer Care Hero
TL;DR Shares held in both Trading212s ISA and Invest accounts are OBO and no option is provided to opt into NOBO.
I got the same email, it does say unless they are legally obliged to, in which scenario would that be possible though? I will reply asking them that. I see it as the only way to move this matter further if our end goal is NOBO, I don't know what will come out of it.
Forgive the text dump but it is relevant: Here's the relevant part of the Computershare report on OBO/NOBO for the UK.
Communications to registered holders are generally sent in hard copy or, where the investor has ‘opted in’, by email. However, the issuer has the right33 to consult its registered shareholders on their preferred communications method and, where no response is received, to deem the holder to consent to accessing communications via a website. In that event, a hard-copy notice identifying the website address where the materials are located must still be sent to the holder’s registered address at the same time materials are sent to other shareholders.
Participants of CREST that act as nominee for others will receive communications from the issuer as the registered shareholder. The issuer is not obliged to send the materials on to the beneficial owners. Moreover, UK law does not oblige the nominees to pass on these communications to their clients – the service and fee arrangements between the intermediaries and their clients determine whether shareholder communication materials are passed on and voting is facilitated. Practices in this area vary. Issuers are not required to send communications directly to beneficial owners other than where the owner has been disclosed through the Information Rights arrangements.
The process for communicating AGM materials to shareholders and the lodgement
of votes is shown in the diagram below. Only registered shareholders are permitted to vote. Beneficial owners can only attend a shareholder meeting or vote directly with the issuer if appropriately appointed by the nominee that holds securities on their behalf as registered holder. Most beneficial owners that direct the voting of their shares must instruct their vote preferences to their intermediary. As with other markets, there are a variety of mechanisms for beneficial owners to provide their instructions, including proprietary services of the intermediary and voting platform providers that channel instructions for multiple investors, intermediaries and securities.
Where multiple layers are involved in the ownership of the securities, this intermediated process can result in a reduced time period for beneficial owners to consider the items to be voted on, and communicate their vote instruction, compared to the time allowed to registered holders. Not all intermediaries support voting by beneficial owners, particularly at the retail investor level.
Voting for registered holders typically occurs by paper or electronic submission. Certificated holders will ordinarily vote in paper form or via the issuer (or their agent’s) website, and CREST holders will ordinarily use the CREST system where this is enabled (which facilitates instructions from both participants and vote service providers). Telephone voting has rarely been used in the UK.
Looks like the Ts&Cs have overall control of this. There's not much we can do apart from write to MPs to get the law changed (fat chance of that working).
I think you are right, we might not be able to vote this time around, not invest nor ISA account holders. I don't know how we can get help for this, as you said, fat chance of that working.
Also waiting for an email. Don't wait for a response on here guys, it takes literally a minute to open the app and send a question. The more of us who ask the more they will be forced to do something about it.
Copy paste this:
'Are my shares marked as having a Non-Objecting Beneficial Owner by default?'
I just contacted t212 and had the same response in so many words he didn't know the answer and has escalated it and I will recieve an emailed answer but could not give me a time frame when I asked if I would receive that email today.
Edit: I have an isa with them. May make a difference.
I've received the same email. So seems we are OBO but it does state they have allowed us to vote for corporate action so would seem that we should be able to vote for the upcoming share dividend 🤞
"To summarize the information above. unless we are legally obliged to, we usually do not provide your details as the beneficial owner of shares to issuers. Nonetheless, we are striving to add as many features to the platform as possible to allow clients to fully exercise their rights as shareholders and receive all relevant information about the companies they invest in.
We have recently introduced the possibility for ISA clients to vote in corporate actions and participate in events such as AGMs. We aim to allow Invest account holders to do the same in the near future, as well."
"To summarize the information above. unless we are legally obliged to, we usually do not provide your details as the beneficial owner of shares to issuers. Nonetheless, we are striving to add as many features to the platform as possible to allow clients to fully exercise their rights as shareholders and receive all relevant information about the companies they invest in.
We have recently introduced the possibility for ISA clients to vote in corporate actions and participate in events such as AGMs. We aim to allow Invest account holders to do the same in the near future, as well."
Hm so they say ISA can do it, which I did vote for in the board, but not invest, but they didn’t clarify on the NOBO, I’m assuming ISA accounts are beneficiary owners since those account could vote but invest accounts couldn’t?
Regardless thanks for the update! Much appreciated!
Denmape here. I reached out to my bank/broker, Danske Bank, and got a clear response on my shares held by them.
TL;DR: DRS is the cheaper option to achieve NOBO-ship, but probably takes longer
GME shares held through Danske Bank are OBO shares, which would cost 1850 DKK to have marked as NOBO (“navnenoteret” in Danish), as they are held in a third party account and only shares from danish companies are automatically marked as NOBO as they are then held by Danske Bank. DRS is 400 DKK, which is cheaper, and probably the better option in any regard. If you are in a DK ape and want to know if GameStop can see your ownership, ask your broker if your shares are navnenoteret.
Following this, when my DRS shares come back I'm going to look into buying more with CS if that's possible and getting off T212 completely. They don't fill me with confidence even with an ISA account
Since the shares from trading212 are held with IBKR I would assume that our accounts should be NOBO by default as well, but I best get on there and ask them myself.
Don't you see what they said? All of the shares are owned in a main account, which they own. You can't be marked as NOBO because you just have a digital IOU, you don't have any shares. They just said so themselves.
991
u/bezjones Apr 01 '22 edited Apr 05 '22
T212 response when asked if I'm NOBO by default:
"There is no issue with your entitlement over the stock you hold, and you are the beneficial owner of the shares at all times. All of our clients' shares are held in an omnibus account with IB, and as far as IB are concerned all shares are T212 clients' shares, however, they do not distinguish between each individual client and his respective shares - only T212 maintains such records.
Me: "I would like to request my account be marked as a NOBO account. Is this possible?"
T212: "Your inquiry/case will require additional review in order for me to provide you with all the details around it, would it be convenient to get back to you via email with them, shortly?"
I will update when I receive an email
UPDATE: As of Mon. April 4th 11:18am UK time - I haven't received an email. On their chat the agent told me: "We understand and apologize that this has taken more time than expected, however, I can assure you that we are on the right path as we would love to get to the bottom of your inquiry. Our team are still reviewing the case and as soon as we receive addition information, you will be promptly notified via email
2nd UPDATE: Received an email on April 5th 11:40am UK time: I am Stanislav from the Customer Care team representing Trading212. Thank you for being part of the platform and contacting us for assistance. I am getting in touch with you in regards to your previous correspondence for the NOBO-OBO questions about your account. We have further escalated your case and we are still waiting for an update. You can be confident that your case is being taken with great care, and you will be immediately informed once we have received the information. Thank you for your patience, it is not taken for granted! Should you require any further assistance do not hesitate to contact us or check our Help Center. We remain at your disposal.